He’s probably safe for time being as the gang of four’s choice. It’s a results a business though and Charlie boy is going to have his work cut out convincing the money men alls well in the Valley.
it will be a bloody long chat with 50+ to speak to.
He was a Gang of Four appointment but his issue now is that there is a gang of about 12 to answer to and the other eight have all the bunce.
I like Dean. He is a straight up guy who has done the “getting us” routine down to a tee. And I think he is genuine with it. The problem is if he was any good as a tactical manager I’d be guessing that by now he would have had a track record that is a little more impressive than his is. He has inherited a crock. There have clearly been upgrades in several positions and our youth delight us. But we have an injury curse and, with the odd exception, we are buying the crocked and the needy. If we are under some sort of FFP constraint the chances of us balancing the books till we get shot of Anekes, Kirks etc is unlikely and we can’t give them away. The roots of our demise are very deep and we need more than a manic wand to put it right. If this lot have got any sense they will be looking at a structured root and branch makeover that will take several seasons. Whether they will see Dean as the manager to oversee that at least as far as on the pitch matters are concerned must be highly debatable and the last couple of weeks haven’t helped him however much of a pigs ear he has inherited. I share the doubts of those who believe he won’t see out the season.
Holden has definite flaws but the lack of backing from the new SMT is a joke. I really think Holden is trying to show how weak the team is through the lack of subs he makes. 4/5 signings of average quality and we could actually be in trouble. This team seems lacking in several areas. Imagine this team without Dobson? We need an injection of real quality. RWB, CB, CAM, FW x2 as a minimum.
We've had a succession of mediocre managers - none of them have done much since they left. Whatever the squad shortcomings they're hardly helped by the managers we've had.
I don’t think Pep could do much with recent squads they can only work with the players at their disposal after all.
I'm sorry but Holden has to take some of the responsibility for our failings.
Oh don’t apologise and I’m not disputing that Holden has to take some responsibility but my point is it can’t always be the Managers fault we’re a mid table L1 team with at least half of todays squad no better than that level. It would be even less than that if some of the recent signings and youngsters had improved the quality.
Whatever the weakness of our squad the manager doesn't appear to be doing a great job either. He's a mediocre manager with a mediocre squad.
We've had a succession of mediocre managers - none of them have done much since they left. Whatever the squad shortcomings they're hardly helped by the managers we've had.
I don’t think Pep could do much with recent squads they can only work with the players at their disposal after all.
I'm sorry but Holden has to take some of the responsibility for our failings.
Oh don’t apologise and I’m not disputing that Holden has to take some responsibility but my point is it can’t always be the Managers fault we’re a mid table L1 team with at least half of todays squad no better than that level. It would be even less than that if some of the recent signings and youngsters had improved the quality.
Whatever the weakness of our squad the manager doesn't appear to be doing a great job either. He's a mediocre manager with a mediocre squad.
If he doesn’t get some results soon he could be gone before Xmas, Garner went beginning December who would you realistically like to see replace him?
We've had a succession of mediocre managers - none of them have done much since they left. Whatever the squad shortcomings they're hardly helped by the managers we've had.
I don’t think Pep could do much with recent squads they can only work with the players at their disposal after all.
I'm sorry but Holden has to take some of the responsibility for our failings.
Oh don’t apologise and I’m not disputing that Holden has to take some responsibility but my point is it can’t always be the Managers fault we’re a mid table L1 team with at least half of todays squad no better than that level. It would be even less than that if some of the recent signings and youngsters had improved the quality.
Whatever the weakness of our squad the manager doesn't appear to be doing a great job either. He's a mediocre manager with a mediocre squad.
If he doesn’t get some results soon he could be gone before Xmas, Garner went beginning December who would you realistically like to see replace him?
Steve Evans - don't particularly like him but think he could at least set the team up a bit better.
We've had a succession of mediocre managers - none of them have done much since they left. Whatever the squad shortcomings they're hardly helped by the managers we've had.
I don’t think Pep could do much with recent squads they can only work with the players at their disposal after all.
I'm sorry but Holden has to take some of the responsibility for our failings.
Oh don’t apologise and I’m not disputing that Holden has to take some responsibility but my point is it can’t always be the Managers fault we’re a mid table L1 team with at least half of todays squad no better than that level. It would be even less than that if some of the recent signings and youngsters had improved the quality.
Whatever the weakness of our squad the manager doesn't appear to be doing a great job either. He's a mediocre manager with a mediocre squad.
If he doesn’t get some results soon he could be gone before Xmas, Garner went beginning December who would you realistically like to see replace him?
Steve Evans - don't particularly like him but think he could at least set the team up a bit better.
Hopefully Holden can turn things around.
He’d certainly increase the turnover at the not so fast food outlets 😉.
To those saying the squad isn't good enough or wildly imbalanced, how many squads are drastically better than ours? I would say a handful at most. Yes, we need depth at FB and up front, but we have a lot of quality in this squad. Injuries, and injuries in the same areas (center forward, center mid) are a much bigger issue. But this is not a three points from four games (three at home) level squad.
True if they are all fit and able to play 100 minutes (as you acknowledge)
We've had a succession of mediocre managers - none of them have done much since they left. Whatever the squad shortcomings they're hardly helped by the managers we've had.
I don’t think Pep could do much with recent squads they can only work with the players at their disposal after all.
I'm sorry but Holden has to take some of the responsibility for our failings.
Oh don’t apologise and I’m not disputing that Holden has to take some responsibility but my point is it can’t always be the Managers fault we’re a mid table L1 team with at least half of todays squad no better than that level. It would be even less than that if some of the recent signings and youngsters had improved the quality.
Whatever the weakness of our squad the manager doesn't appear to be doing a great job either. He's a mediocre manager with a mediocre squad.
If he doesn’t get some results soon he could be gone before Xmas, Garner went beginning December who would you realistically like to see replace him?
Steve Evans - don't particularly like him but think he could at least set the team up a bit better.
I'd rather bring back Karel Fraeye, cannot stand Evans
We've had a succession of mediocre managers - none of them have done much since they left. Whatever the squad shortcomings they're hardly helped by the managers we've had.
I don’t think Pep could do much with recent squads they can only work with the players at their disposal after all.
I'm sorry but Holden has to take some of the responsibility for our failings.
Oh don’t apologise and I’m not disputing that Holden has to take some responsibility but my point is it can’t always be the Managers fault we’re a mid table L1 team with at least half of todays squad no better than that level. It would be even less than that if some of the recent signings and youngsters had improved the quality.
Whatever the weakness of our squad the manager doesn't appear to be doing a great job either. He's a mediocre manager with a mediocre squad.
If he doesn’t get some results soon he could be gone before Xmas, Garner went beginning December who would you realistically like to see replace him?
Steve Evans - don't particularly like him but think he could at least set the team up a bit better.
I'd rather bring back Karel Fraeye, cannot stand Evans
Don't like Evans but I'm pretty sure he'd do a better job with this squad.
We've had a succession of mediocre managers - none of them have done much since they left. Whatever the squad shortcomings they're hardly helped by the managers we've had.
I don’t think Pep could do much with recent squads they can only work with the players at their disposal after all.
I'm sorry but Holden has to take some of the responsibility for our failings.
Oh don’t apologise and I’m not disputing that Holden has to take some responsibility but my point is it can’t always be the Managers fault we’re a mid table L1 team with at least half of todays squad no better than that level. It would be even less than that if some of the recent signings and youngsters had improved the quality.
Whatever the weakness of our squad the manager doesn't appear to be doing a great job either. He's a mediocre manager with a mediocre squad.
If he doesn’t get some results soon he could be gone before Xmas, Garner went beginning December who would you realistically like to see replace him?
Steve Evans - don't particularly like him but think he could at least set the team up a bit better.
I'd rather bring back Karel Fraeye, cannot stand Evans
Mind you if we’d spread out in additional time v Brizzle they might not have nicked that late winner.
Got to feel bad for Holden when he is put in a position when he has to think about bringing on DJ and playing him out of position. I think DJ last league appearance for Charlton was Oxford on 1st October.
Fickle as Charlton fans…the man has done well given what he has had to work with …personally my opinion is he is good for job passion and the desire to do well.. rather than give the flick after a few bad results
Holden has definite flaws but the lack of backing from the new SMT is a joke. I really think Holden is trying to show how weak the team is through the lack of subs he makes. 4/5 signings of average quality and we could actually be in trouble. This team seems lacking in several areas. Imagine this team without Dobson? We need an injection of real quality. RWB, CB, CAM, FW x2 as a minimum.
It's interesting that you say that, as I've been listening to what nowadays is called a "narrative" about how Holden - rather than the ownership and especially those responsible for improving the squad- will be made the scapegoat. Let' s say this narrative comes from "deep inside the West Stand" (I've always had an irrational aversion to anything that comes out of the West Stand, sorry if I offend any innocent ST holders on here 😉)
According to this narrative, the reason why there are no new signings is because Holden refuses to let go of the dross that made up half of today's bench. He has not, they say, been tough enough in telling them they have no future at Charlton, so it makes it harder to offload them. His "crime" is to name them in the squads (although only Payne has started)
I think this narrative is an HGV-load of bollocks because :
- As far as I am aware, he had no senior names for today's bench to replace Kirk, Payne, DJ, or McGrandalls. Had he named kids, just to fill the bench, or not the full complement, what do you imagine the reaction would have been?
- today he went as far as he could. He dropped Payne from the eleven, was "rewarded" by finding that Camara picked up an injury (from where and when?) and therefore had to expect Taylor to do the full 102 minutes, when he clearly couldn't, and Edun certainly couldn't (at least he had an honest pro to replace Edun)
- the result of this was that Kanu, Anderson and Assimwe were asked to complete the game - because to sub them would have been to give a positive message to one of the unwanted, which is something "they" want to pin on Holden. In Assimwe's case, this had catastrophic consequences. Hats off to the Covered End for giving him a well deserved ovation despite that. He's a fantastic prospect.
- As others have explained, it is a fallacy that FFP prevents us from signing other people before shipping out the dross. It does though require an investor to shove some more money in the current account than Charlie told them to expect, at an embarrassingly (for Charlie) early stage in the ownership.
Right now I don't know whether this is really coming out of the upper echelons, or more in the head of my source. But watch out for this narrative. And when you see and hear it, call it out. It's a massive, dishonest, slimy load of bollocks.
He needs to sort things out at the back asap (we’ll go nowhere if we keep shipping in goals at the current rate) but his attitude in his post match interview is spot on.
He hasn’t been backed so far and should pass on his comment of ‘you get what you put it’ to Andy Scott, Charlie & the investors.
Desperately need a right wing back (Asiimwe is quality but can’t play every min) and more depth / quality throughout the whole spine of the squad (ST, CB, CM).
I hope Ipswich bring in a forward as I think Ladapo would be perfect for us upfront & Id love to see us go for Moxon to give us more depth & creativity in the middle. If the investors want success we 100% should be prizing away quality players like this from clubs the size of Carlisle.
The problem with Holden is that he has no track record to suggest he might be cut out for this job..or any job in football management? He is a big gamble. Don't get me wrong, I like the fella but there's no pedigree here. .
Not just results for me but the manner on which we lose. We have served up some real shite under him and we look so mentally weak. As soon as we concede we crumble, and we continue to leak soft late gosls
The problem with Holden is that he has no track record to suggest he might be cut out for this job..or any job in football management? He is a big gamble. Don't get me wrong, I like the fella but there's no pedigree here. .
Bit like Lennie Lawrence , Alan Curbishley, Chris Powell and Lee Bowyer… everyone deserves a start in their lives
Next game I think we should go 5 at back with wingbacks drop CBT because he flatters to deceive has no end product, can’t header ,can’t defend. 3 in the middle with 2 up top.
“No end product” apart from his end product when his cross set up Kanu to score?
The problem with Holden is that he has no track record to suggest he might be cut out for this job..or any job in football management? He is a big gamble. Don't get me wrong, I like the fella but there's no pedigree here. .
Bit like Lennie Lawrence , Alan Curbishley, Chris Powell and Lee Bowyer… everyone deserves a start in their lives
Agreed. And Johnnie Jackson, getting a second start at AFCW, started well (and according to a mate close to the club, no accident)
The problem with Holden is that he has no track record to suggest he might be cut out for this job..or any job in football management? He is a big gamble. Don't get me wrong, I like the fella but there's no pedigree here. .
Bit like Lennie Lawrence , Alan Curbishley, Chris Powell and Lee Bowyer… everyone deserves a start in their lives
Agreed. And Johnnie Jackson, getting a second start at AFCW, started well (and according to a mate close to the club, no accident)
Lawrence, Curbishley and Bowyer only came to pass because the club had little or no money available for whatever reasons. So yeah, I suppose Holden makes sense for the same reason.
I say feck the results. Keep him and see what happens. I still believe that there's not many managers out there, that could do a much better with our squad (that Charlton could afford).
I think Holdens biggest fear would be from detached, trigger happy major investors who I assume know very little about football, and only see results, not growth or building blocks.
Comments
Impatient fickledom.
I do think there's pressure yes but I understand that we don't have the squad.
But can we really say our squads worse than Newports, Bristol Rovers & Port Vales?
Trying not to be OTT but today was a bad one, didn't feel as unfortunate as the last two.
I genuinely don't think we could have asked for an easier start to a season and we have mucked it up somehow
Hopefully Holden can turn things around.
According to this narrative, the reason why there are no new signings is because Holden refuses to let go of the dross that made up half of today's bench. He has not, they say, been tough enough in telling them they have no future at Charlton, so it makes it harder to offload them. His "crime" is to name them in the squads (although only Payne has started)
I think this narrative is an HGV-load of bollocks because :
- As far as I am aware, he had no senior names for today's bench to replace Kirk, Payne, DJ, or McGrandalls. Had he named kids, just to fill the bench, or not the full complement, what do you imagine the reaction would have been?
- today he went as far as he could. He dropped Payne from the eleven, was "rewarded" by finding that Camara picked up an injury (from where and when?) and therefore had to expect Taylor to do the full 102 minutes, when he clearly couldn't, and Edun certainly couldn't (at least he had an honest pro to replace Edun)
- the result of this was that Kanu, Anderson and Assimwe were asked to complete the game - because to sub them would have been to give a positive message to one of the unwanted, which is something "they" want to pin on Holden. In Assimwe's case, this had catastrophic consequences. Hats off to the Covered End for giving him a well deserved ovation despite that. He's a fantastic prospect.
- As others have explained, it is a fallacy that FFP prevents us from signing other people before shipping out the dross. It does though require an investor to shove some more money in the current account than Charlie told them to expect, at an embarrassingly (for Charlie) early stage in the ownership.
Right now I don't know whether this is really coming out of the upper echelons, or more in the head of my source. But watch out for this narrative. And when you see and hear it, call it out. It's a massive, dishonest, slimy load of bollocks.
He needs to sort things out at the back asap (we’ll go nowhere if we keep shipping in goals at the current rate) but his attitude in his post match interview is spot on.
He hasn’t been backed so far and should pass on his comment of ‘you get what you put it’ to Andy Scott, Charlie & the investors.
Desperately need a right wing back (Asiimwe is quality but can’t play every min) and more depth / quality throughout the whole spine of the squad (ST, CB, CM).
I hope Ipswich bring in a forward as I think Ladapo would be perfect for us upfront & Id love to see us go for Moxon to give us more depth & creativity in the middle. If the investors want success we 100% should be prizing away quality players like this from clubs the size of Carlisle.
He is a big gamble.
Don't get me wrong, I like the fella but there's no pedigree here.
.
Of course, as I said he couldn’t really have said anything else.
So yeah, I suppose Holden makes sense for the same reason.