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Holden sacked?! (Ed. Yes - Confirmed)
Comments
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Gone up considerably in my estimation.Laddick01 said:0 -
Have to agree with you@JohnnyH2JohnnyH2 said:
And here we go again. 3 terrible ownerships in a row prior to this one, and yet anyone who initially dared put their head above the water and point out they are no good were shut down. And then over a long period of time they were shown to be really terribleShootersHillGuru said:
Give it a rest.BigDiddy said:Charlie and his SMT are milking the club for personal @gain.
Wages, expenses, fees, consultancy - fuck knows what else.
THEY HAVE NOT PUT ANY MONEY INTO THE CLUB - they are a COST. Really important we remember that. I’d be surprised in CM was on anything less than 500k per year and that is why he is here. Thats also the game in town for SMT as they are all talentless chancers who are screwing the club.
If they were ANY good, why would they be with us?
As the Airman said, they will look busy in the eyes of the yanks. It will go on for as long as the yanks will cover running costs and when the money stops, then they will all be gone. Think of Farnell, Southall, Paul Elliott and all the other knobs that leech money out of football clubs.
This lot are no different - managerial chaos HELPS them screw more cash out of the club.
This lot are worse than all the previous owners combined, including that vile scumbag Roly.
This new ownership have in some cases a terrible reputation at other clubs, and now having dicked around in the window, have decided to sack THEIR manager before the end of August.
If you disagree with people not liking this ownership that is your right, but is it so much to ask that supporters are allowed to voice their opinions without fear of being shut down?
Everything feels wrong with the owners and the mob SMT. Methven,Scott, Rothwell since first hitting the spotlight at Charlton has felt wrong to me.Now with the sacking of Holden with 5 days of the window remaining just feels crazy.
You have to ask yourself this question, if you were a footballer or manager would you come to Charlton given our situation.
For me the answer is No. I would stay where I am.7 -
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.1 -
They won't have to wait long. There might be more people in the Director's Box than the rest of the ground at the Fleetwood game. Can't see the actual attendance surpassing the ST numbers - 8000?Wellred said:
Like I said it's probably nothing but I just feel our gates have been on the decline & if they keep going that way they will look to cut costsswordfish said:Wellred said:
I have thought for awhile they are looking to move us from the Valley down to somewhere in Kent hope I am wrong as that would be it for me & many othersvff said:Dean Holden was known to Methven and Scott from last season. He was given a 3 year contract by Methven and pals only a few months ago. That was picked up by Holden, who foolishly believed that he would be backed in the transfer market. This did not happen. Cue disatisfaction, loss of hope from Holden and him losing the plot tactically, and having his weaknesses as a coach / manager exposed.The utter rubbish plan of Methven and the tall tale he told the investors is behind the current fiasco. That and the staggering incompetence and delusion of the plan. Cost cutting, playing and selling youth to reduce losses. The £1m to 2m losses plan, without any significant investment, in league one will take Charlton to League 2 and the National League. the bad things we were told about Methven and his pals is so far proving to be true.Ipswich had sustained and significant backing to get to the Championship. This is not what Charlton are getting currently. Why the hell did Methven bother - apart from the consultancy fees. What is the point ? The only way the plan works to sell the club for more in the championship. On Methven's cost cutting plan, even in a weakened league is just never going to happen.What manager or team is going to manage with the level of cost cutting by Methven ? Maybe at very best lower midtable to avoiding relegation. That is before any decent youngster is sold off. This is what Methven has brought Charlton to. Duchatelet will be happy with the diminishing of the football club. Closer to the day when there won't be a club at the Valley.
Still can't explain why he agreed to let Sandgaard lease it when he could have said no though can you. No one else has either who claim he wants us out.0 -
@ForeverAddickted doing the match preview thread instead of sciving off on holidayRothko said:
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.
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Er, no, that’s definitely just voicing their opinion.southamptonaddick said:
No problem with people voicing their opinions whether they're liking or not liking the ownership but to keep repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make them right.JohnnyH2 said:
And here we go again. 3 terrible ownerships in a row prior to this one, and yet anyone who initially dared put their head above the water and point out they are no good were shut down. And then over a long period of time they were shown to be really terribleShootersHillGuru said:
Give it a rest.BigDiddy said:Charlie and his SMT are milking the club for personal gain.
Wages, expenses, fees, consultancy - fuck knows what else.
THEY HAVE NOT PUT ANY MONEY INTO THE CLUB - they are a COST. Really important we remember that. I’d be surprised in CM was on anything less than 500k per year and that is why he is here. Thats also the game in town for SMT as they are all talentless chancers who are screwing the club.
If they were ANY good, why would they be with us?
As the Airman said, they will look busy in the eyes of the yanks. It will go on for as long as the yanks will cover running costs and when the money stops, then they will all be gone. Think of Farnell, Southall, Paul Elliott and all the other knobs that leech money out of football clubs.
This lot are no different - managerial chaos HELPS them screw more cash out of the club.
This lot are worse than all the previous owners combined, including that vile scumbag Roly.
This new ownership have in some cases a terrible reputation at other clubs, and now having dicked around in the window, have decided to sack THEIR manager before the end of August.
If you disagree with people not liking this ownership that is your right, but is it so much to ask that supporters are allowed to voice their opinions without fear of being shut down?0 -
CharltontillidieCOYR said:
Yea exactly nice to see a proven successful manager approached but could it be a nombe situation again “oooo we tried but ended up with a cheap loan signing instead” 🙄😂JordanJLD said:
I amended my post with the tweet. Does feel too similar for it to not have some truth behind it though, at least we know what level of manager we’re after though.CharltontillidieCOYR said:
Tbf its not to say he would have been offered the job or even got that far anyway it would have been to discuss/interviewJordanJLD said:I’m sure someone on here or Twitter said last night that they heard a couple weeks ago that Darren Ferguson would be offered the job. Actually happened, worrying leak for the club.
we are always going to be looking at multiple managers abit like signings to see who impresses or wants itOr it’s just a ploy and we’ll end up with Pearce till the end of the season 😂
Spot on! Was going to say the same thing, don’t trust this lot.CharltontillidieCOYR said:
Yea exactly nice to see a proven successful manager approached but could it be a nombe situation again “oooo we tried but ended up with a cheap loan signing instead” 🙄😂JordanJLD said:
I amended my post with the tweet. Does feel too similar for it to not have some truth behind it though, at least we know what level of manager we’re after though.CharltontillidieCOYR said:
Tbf its not to say he would have been offered the job or even got that far anyway it would have been to discuss/interviewJordanJLD said:I’m sure someone on here or Twitter said last night that they heard a couple weeks ago that Darren Ferguson would be offered the job. Actually happened, worrying leak for the club.
we are always going to be looking at multiple managers abit like signings to see who impresses or wants itOr it’s just a ploy and we’ll end up with Pearce till the end of the season 😂1 -
Let’s keep this thread now talking about the Holden sacking. There’s another thread pinned to the top talk about new manager speculation, cheers5
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Little or nothing quite probably. The squad will still be shit, the new scapegoat, sorry, manager will soon come in and have to try and polish a turd and this season will be yet another where finishing in the top half will somehow constitute success.Rothko said:
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.
Presumably now the excuses are nicely lined up (money used to pay off Holden, uncertainty with no manager, "collapsed last minute" etc etc) they'll have the statement already typed up and ready to post.2 -
On sky sports newsCrispy said:
Where did you hear that?!RonnieMoore said:Darren Ferguson turns down the chance to talk to us .. shows we are willing to pay compensation to get another manager … don’t think Ferguson will leave Peterbro again … he seen the grass is not greener elsewhere2 - Sponsored links:
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That's why it's so important they get it right this time I think everyone has had just about enoughCardinal Sin said:
They won't have to wait long. There might be more people in the Director's Box than the rest of the ground at the Fleetwood game. Can't see the actual attendance surpassing the ST numbers - 8000?Wellred said:
Like I said it's probably nothing but I just feel our gates have been on the decline & if they keep going that way they will look to cut costsswordfish said:Wellred said:
I have thought for awhile they are looking to move us from the Valley down to somewhere in Kent hope I am wrong as that would be it for me & many othersvff said:Dean Holden was known to Methven and Scott from last season. He was given a 3 year contract by Methven and pals only a few months ago. That was picked up by Holden, who foolishly believed that he would be backed in the transfer market. This did not happen. Cue disatisfaction, loss of hope from Holden and him losing the plot tactically, and having his weaknesses as a coach / manager exposed.The utter rubbish plan of Methven and the tall tale he told the investors is behind the current fiasco. That and the staggering incompetence and delusion of the plan. Cost cutting, playing and selling youth to reduce losses. The £1m to 2m losses plan, without any significant investment, in league one will take Charlton to League 2 and the National League. the bad things we were told about Methven and his pals is so far proving to be true.Ipswich had sustained and significant backing to get to the Championship. This is not what Charlton are getting currently. Why the hell did Methven bother - apart from the consultancy fees. What is the point ? The only way the plan works to sell the club for more in the championship. On Methven's cost cutting plan, even in a weakened league is just never going to happen.What manager or team is going to manage with the level of cost cutting by Methven ? Maybe at very best lower midtable to avoiding relegation. That is before any decent youngster is sold off. This is what Methven has brought Charlton to. Duchatelet will be happy with the diminishing of the football club. Closer to the day when there won't be a club at the Valley.
Still can't explain why he agreed to let Sandgaard lease it when he could have said no though can you. No one else has either who claim he wants us out.
like you say it would have already affected our gate even some of our ST holders won't be coming
But they got to know this That's why I posted earlier this is a good indication on how serious they are to get us up
As with the right man & 3 good loans we will definitely make the playoffs no doubt in my minds
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Your optimism is impressive (given what’s happened so far).Wellred said:
That's why it's so important they get it right this time I think everyone has had just about enoughCardinal Sin said:
They won't have to wait long. There might be more people in the Director's Box than the rest of the ground at the Fleetwood game. Can't see the actual attendance surpassing the ST numbers - 8000?Wellred said:
Like I said it's probably nothing but I just feel our gates have been on the decline & if they keep going that way they will look to cut costsswordfish said:Wellred said:
I have thought for awhile they are looking to move us from the Valley down to somewhere in Kent hope I am wrong as that would be it for me & many othersvff said:Dean Holden was known to Methven and Scott from last season. He was given a 3 year contract by Methven and pals only a few months ago. That was picked up by Holden, who foolishly believed that he would be backed in the transfer market. This did not happen. Cue disatisfaction, loss of hope from Holden and him losing the plot tactically, and having his weaknesses as a coach / manager exposed.The utter rubbish plan of Methven and the tall tale he told the investors is behind the current fiasco. That and the staggering incompetence and delusion of the plan. Cost cutting, playing and selling youth to reduce losses. The £1m to 2m losses plan, without any significant investment, in league one will take Charlton to League 2 and the National League. the bad things we were told about Methven and his pals is so far proving to be true.Ipswich had sustained and significant backing to get to the Championship. This is not what Charlton are getting currently. Why the hell did Methven bother - apart from the consultancy fees. What is the point ? The only way the plan works to sell the club for more in the championship. On Methven's cost cutting plan, even in a weakened league is just never going to happen.What manager or team is going to manage with the level of cost cutting by Methven ? Maybe at very best lower midtable to avoiding relegation. That is before any decent youngster is sold off. This is what Methven has brought Charlton to. Duchatelet will be happy with the diminishing of the football club. Closer to the day when there won't be a club at the Valley.
Still can't explain why he agreed to let Sandgaard lease it when he could have said no though can you. No one else has either who claim he wants us out.
like you say it would have already affected our gate even some of our ST holders won't be coming
But they got to know this That's why I posted earlier this is a good indication on how serious they are to get us up
As with the right man & 3 good loans we will definitely make the playoffs no doubt in my minds1 -
Thought that was all priced inthenewbie said:
Little or nothing quite probably. The squad will still be shit, the new scapegoat, sorry, manager will soon come in and have to try and polish a turd and this season will be yet another where finishing in the top half will somehow constitute success.Rothko said:
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.
Presumably now the excuses are nicely lined up (money used to pay off Holden, uncertainty with no manager, "collapsed last minute" etc etc) they'll have the statement already typed up and ready to post.0 -
1st Moore . Booner. 3rd sir Chris Powell my choice.0
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When the window closes and we see what we’ve got.Rothko said:
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.1 -
Oh I think they might if they stay for a couple of years, just not the way we want to gostoneroses19 said:
Is that something the new owners are currently proud of then?DubaiCAFC said:
I would say it turns up the pressure, Holden was his man, recruitment hasn't been great, and if this appointment of a new manager isn't great, it heats up more pressure!Cardinal Sin said:
Covering his arse and putting all the blame at Holden's door. It's not a trick you can get away with too often. Can't make my mind up if the replacement will be the least-cost option or another Methven acolyte. Either way, they will have their work cut-out making us competitive with the state of this squad.DubaiCAFC said:
Not really, it turns the heat up on them, I would say!Airman Brown said:PragueAddick said:
With great respect, Mr Peanuts, your first para. reads as if Methven and co. appointed him only in the close season and had no idea how -apparently - "tactically naive" he is. But that's not the case. Methven was in and around the club from December- when Holden and the others came in- through to February, and had a half-season to monitor results and take soundings. If he's really as bad as you paint him, you'd think Charlie- "I know football" - Methven would have spotted it, and have had a replacement lined up to take over as soon as the deal was done; so that at least said replacement could get some of his own choices in, and certainly influence the pre-season.PeanutsMolloy said:
I don't dispute he improved our performances after Garner-ball (it was a relatively obvious idea to "get the ball forward quicker", as DH described it) but, as I've said earlier, tactical naivety alone in the last 3 games (including first-rate impression of a stuffed dummy on the touchline at crucial moments and leaving clearly-knackered youngsters on for too long) and shockingly poor set-piece coaching in both boxes, is enough for me to be in no doubt it's right to replace DH now.PragueAddick said:
- Dean Holden was apparently recommended to TS by the current SMT. Effectively their choice, 8 months ago.
- He inherited a crap squad that was in chaos. Remember the Stockport cup humiliation?
- Admittedly the delay to the takeover completion didn't help to make a smooth well-planned pre-season.
- He has ONE fit senior striker. ONE!
- As of a week ago he had 10 -TEN - injured players.
- He has had to play two debutant 18 year olds in every game, for the simple reason that there were no better choices.
- He was told that he cannot bring more players in if he keeps picking the trash (Kirk, DJ , McG). Yes, I have a source for that. None of the trash was on the bench on Saturday.
So yeah, the "solution" to a poor start is to sack a manager you gave a three year contract to in March with a week to go of the window and irons supposedly in the fire, especially a striker.
As I've been saying for nigh on 30 years since I got involved in management recruitment: any idiot can sack someone. The difficult bit is getting in someone "better", especially if you keep being the same idiot each year or less.
"Someone challenge me on that?" © Charles Harry Finlayson Methven
He could have a fully-fit £30m squad and still potentially (probably IMO) not have the ability as a manager to get us promotion.
You're right he was SMT's choice but it's not unreasonable to assume they had to work within TS's budget and have his sign off. TS would have had to (and for a while did) live with the choice if the deal fell through.
So we shouldn't assume DH was ever their #1 choice or defines their budget for a new appointment.
We'll find out soon.
Given that, you haven't persuaded me at all that the timing of this isn't symptomatic of panic and breathtaking incompetence. Or possibly, as @sm above says, symptomatic of hedge-fund management mentality.
I think it’s primarily Charlie covering his arse and distancing his little gang from the worst start since 1990.
Not sure I get the arse covering.. everyone can see the short fall, manager that had run out of ideas, and recruitment that hasn't been the best so far! But the recruitment is still better than last summer!It doesn’t matter if it’s better than the mess of last season or the season before that. This season is where they are in control, and they did not do enough to help Holden (I’m not defending his poor choices in recent games, that’s a different matter) and are not doing enough to help us get out of this league.0 -
In his early days I warmed to Holden I thought he was a breath of fresh air and a gentleman. I was very optimistic about this season.However the catastrophic start has cost him his job.He still remained a gentleman but you need a ruthless streak to survive as a manager and not become too predictableI think Dobson has been our best player as always but he has been moved further forward and think we have missed his nouse of breaking up attacks at times.We are dreadful at corners and rarely look like scoring from them.I also think Maynard Brewer is a terrific shot stopper but rarely hangs on to the ball from shots.He does not command his area and and collect crosses.I must admit the amount of injuries we have had did not help Holdens case.But in a business like football you often see good guys promoted into management who cannot to the job who were good as a number two.I still like Holden and hope he learns from his outcome at our club
Defensive and goalkeeper coaches are important cogs today and think they are two areas that looking at.1 -
Well the ball is their court to put the right money in to make it happenvff said:
Your optimism is impressive (given what’s happened so far).Wellred said:
That's why it's so important they get it right this time I think everyone has had just about enoughCardinal Sin said:
They won't have to wait long. There might be more people in the Director's Box than the rest of the ground at the Fleetwood game. Can't see the actual attendance surpassing the ST numbers - 8000?Wellred said:
Like I said it's probably nothing but I just feel our gates have been on the decline & if they keep going that way they will look to cut costsswordfish said:Wellred said:
I have thought for awhile they are looking to move us from the Valley down to somewhere in Kent hope I am wrong as that would be it for me & many othersvff said:Dean Holden was known to Methven and Scott from last season. He was given a 3 year contract by Methven and pals only a few months ago. That was picked up by Holden, who foolishly believed that he would be backed in the transfer market. This did not happen. Cue disatisfaction, loss of hope from Holden and him losing the plot tactically, and having his weaknesses as a coach / manager exposed.The utter rubbish plan of Methven and the tall tale he told the investors is behind the current fiasco. That and the staggering incompetence and delusion of the plan. Cost cutting, playing and selling youth to reduce losses. The £1m to 2m losses plan, without any significant investment, in league one will take Charlton to League 2 and the National League. the bad things we were told about Methven and his pals is so far proving to be true.Ipswich had sustained and significant backing to get to the Championship. This is not what Charlton are getting currently. Why the hell did Methven bother - apart from the consultancy fees. What is the point ? The only way the plan works to sell the club for more in the championship. On Methven's cost cutting plan, even in a weakened league is just never going to happen.What manager or team is going to manage with the level of cost cutting by Methven ? Maybe at very best lower midtable to avoiding relegation. That is before any decent youngster is sold off. This is what Methven has brought Charlton to. Duchatelet will be happy with the diminishing of the football club. Closer to the day when there won't be a club at the Valley.
Still can't explain why he agreed to let Sandgaard lease it when he could have said no though can you. No one else has either who claim he wants us out.
like you say it would have already affected our gate even some of our ST holders won't be coming
But they got to know this That's why I posted earlier this is a good indication on how serious they are to get us up
As with the right man & 3 good loans we will definitely make the playoffs no doubt in my minds
I haven't said they would but them & us know it's the only way to go forward
As like you say going by what's happened so far hasn't worked or won't work0 -
I don’t think it will blow anything up, most are resigned to nothing and anything else is a bonusShootersHillGuru said:
When the window closes and we see what we’ve got.Rothko said:
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.0 -
My preference would be:
(1) Pie Mash
(2) Rogan Josh
(3) Bún Bò Cuôn Lá Lôt
2 - Sponsored links:
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Lol at people who wanted Holden sacked.
Very easy to say something like that, but would love to see how you’d pick up the pieces.No… probably not bowyer, your probably wanted him sacked too2 -
He signed a new three year deal earlier this year, they probably knew it would be extremely unlikely that he would be interested in coming to us. Expect the usual we tried to get "top managers" blah blah blah before we end up with another of their out of work mates.Braziliance said:
I am very very surprised at this. That we were willing to compete with another league 1 rival for their own manager.Bedsaddick said:
Hardly surprising he has rejected us but I think it bodes well we are aiming for that type of manager personally..1 -
Great song by Spandau.ross1 said:
TrueRedRobin said:
Cawley has tweeted.Mendonca In Asdas said:
Where did you see that?iamdan said:Hendos back as temp GK coach1 -
Never changeRonnieMoore said:
On sky sports newsCrispy said:
Where did you hear that?!RonnieMoore said:Darren Ferguson turns down the chance to talk to us .. shows we are willing to pay compensation to get another manager … don’t think Ferguson will leave Peterbro again … he seen the grass is not greener elsewhere5 -
But there is no money in the club to extract, your only extracting it from the "owners".superclive98 said:Just had a thought that's a bit left field.
Could it be a way of extracting money from the club? Holden was the Methven group's choice of manager and were probably instrumental in him being handed a 3 year deal, which will now have to be paid up.
As I said at the start, just a thought.
Methven: I can see that it's small stakes with a potentially massive payout, but for him to do that we have to be successful.
Holden: If anyone in football, and its a very small world, finds out he signed a contract then got deliberately sacked he will never work again. For what?
Scott: he could easily got well paid job for as long as he wants it given his CV. Again, is it worth it?
Given the litigation happy nature of the Yanks and the fact he is the only UK front of the business I don't see how this ends well for Methven, or how he even thinks it will.0 -
Three players, Is my understanding, two of them youngsters.Rothko said:
I don’t think it will blow anything up, most are resigned to nothing and anything else is a bonusShootersHillGuru said:
When the window closes and we see what we’ve got.Rothko said:
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.6 -
I'm hoping that Airman writes an article for VOTV online ASAP.
Few others seem to know what's really going on at our club or have the insight into the machinations of the current SMT & their intentions.
I, for one, need some clarity if that's at all possible and ideally some hope for the future.15 -
swordfish said:If Hayes is on set plays, how come the Club and him haven't parted ways? How come he's dodged the bullet?Because the powers that be think he’s on set plays for the oppo and are suitably impressed by his success rate1
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All loans?Airman Brown said:
Three players, Is my understanding, two of them youngsters.Rothko said:
I don’t think it will blow anything up, most are resigned to nothing and anything else is a bonusShootersHillGuru said:
When the window closes and we see what we’ve got.Rothko said:
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.0 -
Two loans, one signing. And three out (none any loss, IMO).TeeC said:
All loans?Airman Brown said:
Three players, Is my understanding, two of them youngsters.Rothko said:
I don’t think it will blow anything up, most are resigned to nothing and anything else is a bonusShootersHillGuru said:
When the window closes and we see what we’ve got.Rothko said:
What is happening on Friday that will blow the place up?ShootersHillGuru said:I guarantee this forum will go into meltdown on Friday. It’s going to get very messy. Apologies to BigDiddy who is on the money.20
