People who want Bowyer back have extremely short memories. You forget just how bad things were, lots of talk about how toxic the place was. Just go back and look at some of his post match interviews to remind yourselves.
What you mean by toxic mate?
Gribbo, it pains me to say this, but you talk out of your arse !
I think it is fair to say that Bowyer was a very divisive figure to fans - hated by some loved by others and there were strong suggestions that he was abusive in language if not action to some of the players in the team and that this led to to divisions in the dressing room. I wasn't there so I don't know the details other than what I have read on this site and that is largely based on conjecture. Some may have come from reliable sources, some made up, dunno. What isn't conjecture is the openly dismissive attitude he demonstrated in public towards his own players when things started to go wrong, and the total unwillingness to accept responsibility.
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
I think it is fair to say that Bowyer was a very divisive figure to fans - hated by some loved by others and there were strong suggestions that he was abusive in language if not action to some of the players in the team and that this led to to divisions in the dressing room. I wasn't there so I don't know the details other than what I have read on this site and that is largely based on conjecture. Some may have come from reliable sources, some made up, dunno. What isn't conjecture is the openly dismissive attitude he demonstrated in public towards his own players when things started to go wrong, and the total unwillingness to accept responsibility.
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
I think it is fair to say that Bowyer was a very divisive figure to fans - hated by some loved by others and there were strong suggestions that he was abusive in language if not action to some of the players in the team and that this led to to divisions in the dressing room. I wasn't there so I don't know the details other than what I have read on this site and that is largely based on conjecture. Some may have come from reliable sources, some made up, dunno. What isn't conjecture is the openly dismissive attitude he demonstrated in public towards his own players when things started to go wrong, and the total unwillingness to accept responsibility.
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
That always happens irrespective of Bowyer.
Maybe. Some more than others.
Some people have suggested Karl Robinson would be a good shout and others have taken the piss as a result, but I haven't seen the depth of feeling about that, or the Bewley brothers or whatever they are called. Appleton seems to have mostly inspired jokes and eyerolling.
I think it is fair to say that Bowyer was a very divisive figure to fans - hated by some loved by others and there were strong suggestions that he was abusive in language if not action to some of the players in the team and that this led to to divisions in the dressing room. I wasn't there so I don't know the details other than what I have read on this site and that is largely based on conjecture. Some may have come from reliable sources, some made up, dunno. What isn't conjecture is the openly dismissive attitude he demonstrated in public towards his own players when things started to go wrong, and the total unwillingness to accept responsibility.
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
All I was doing was asking what the other poster meant by Bowyer being toxic in his last few interviews as I genuinely never noticed it at the time, nor seen anyone discuss it since, until now.
I think it is fair to say that Bowyer was a very divisive figure to fans - hated by some loved by others and there were strong suggestions that he was abusive in language if not action to some of the players in the team and that this led to to divisions in the dressing room. I wasn't there so I don't know the details other than what I have read on this site and that is largely based on conjecture. Some may have come from reliable sources, some made up, dunno. What isn't conjecture is the openly dismissive attitude he demonstrated in public towards his own players when things started to go wrong, and the total unwillingness to accept responsibility.
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
Don't know who you've been talking or listening to, but I've been a member of Charlton Life for 17 years and I've never seen or heard so much as a crossed word!
I think it is fair to say that Bowyer was a very divisive figure to fans - hated by some loved by others and there were strong suggestions that he was abusive in language if not action to some of the players in the team and that this led to to divisions in the dressing room. I wasn't there so I don't know the details other than what I have read on this site and that is largely based on conjecture. Some may have come from reliable sources, some made up, dunno. What isn't conjecture is the openly dismissive attitude he demonstrated in public towards his own players when things started to go wrong, and the total unwillingness to accept responsibility.
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
All I was doing was asking what the other poster meant by Bowyer being toxic in his last few interviews as I genuinely never noticed it at the time, nor seen anyone discuss it since, until now.
Fair enough. I can't speak for the other guy - but the above is what toxic means to me in relation to LB. I get that some of us can seem a bit precious in the eyes of others, but I remember it did feel beyond the usual bickering that happens when a manager goes down the spout.
I think it is fair to say that Bowyer was a very divisive figure to fans - hated by some loved by others and there were strong suggestions that he was abusive in language if not action to some of the players in the team and that this led to to divisions in the dressing room. I wasn't there so I don't know the details other than what I have read on this site and that is largely based on conjecture. Some may have come from reliable sources, some made up, dunno. What isn't conjecture is the openly dismissive attitude he demonstrated in public towards his own players when things started to go wrong, and the total unwillingness to accept responsibility.
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
All I was doing was asking what the other poster meant by Bowyer being toxic in his last few interviews as I genuinely never noticed it at the time, nor seen anyone discuss it since, until now.
You need to go back and read some old threads then.
Bowyer slightly lost the plot after the ESI disaster, and the stresses of COVID and a relegation battle, but seemed pretty chilled before then. And those circumstances would have tested anyone.
If we get the 2017-2019 Bowyer great, the 2020-2021 version, not so good.
People who want Bowyer back have extremely short memories. You forget just how bad things were, lots of talk about how toxic the place was. Just go back and look at some of his post match interviews to remind yourselves.
Bowyer had a fantastic first 6 months with us and did well just getting us into the playoffs.
He then got us promoted. Almost kept us up with a poor squad and an absolute shambles behind the scenes + working and managing a team through covid.
Yes his final few months were poor but we need someone to come in and have an impact straight away, something Bowyer has proven he can do.
All in all it took about 3 years for it to go wrong under Bowyer, most managers don’t last that long anyway.
We could do far worse. Anyway, according to Cawley no approach has been made.
I think it is fair to say that Bowyer was a very divisive figure to fans - hated by some loved by others and there were strong suggestions that he was abusive in language if not action to some of the players in the team and that this led to to divisions in the dressing room. I wasn't there so I don't know the details other than what I have read on this site and that is largely based on conjecture. Some may have come from reliable sources, some made up, dunno. What isn't conjecture is the openly dismissive attitude he demonstrated in public towards his own players when things started to go wrong, and the total unwillingness to accept responsibility.
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
Used to annoy me when he would single out certain players but have nothing bad to say about other individuals who had possibly an even worse game than the ones he picked on. Morgan and Williams being two from memory. strange man management.
People who want Bowyer back have extremely short memories. You forget just how bad things were, lots of talk about how toxic the place was. Just go back and look at some of his post match interviews to remind yourselves.
Bowyer had a fantastic first 6 months with us and did well just getting us into the playoffs.
He then got us promoted. Almost kept us up with a poor squad and an absolute shambles behind the scenes + working and managing a team through covid.
Yes his final few months were poor but we need someone to come in and have an impact straight away, something Bowyer has proven he can do.
All in all it took about 3 years for it to go wrong under Bowyer, most managers don’t last that long anyway.
We could do far worse. Anyway, according to Cawley no approach has been made.
Yeah this is the one thing that is slightly making me doubt myself about Bowyer coming back that he did have that immediate impact. However I do think a big part is the personalities in the squad then likes of Taylor, Pearce, Bielik etc seemed to be the types that would respond well to that more direct approach. Hard to know with all the new signings what they'd be like but regardless it would seem more of a short term approach.
That's just one. It's 158 pages long so happy reading!
Scanning that thread, it seemed a couple of posters had spoken
to some players who said that Bowyer was a bit of a bully. It don't really go
into detail (from what I read), but I wonder what it used to be like in the
dressing room with the likes of Cloughy etc. Not sure if times have moved on in
the football dressing room as it has in other industries, but looking around
the managers in the English leagues, I can imagine there's a few who like to
throw a few f***s about when things aren’t going right on the pitch.
That's just one. It's 158 pages long so happy reading!
Scanning that thread, it seemed a couple of posters had spoken
to some players who said that Bowyer was a bit of a bully. It don't really go
into detail (from what I read), but I wonder what it used to be like in the
dressing room with the likes of Cloughy etc. Not sure if times have moved on in
the football dressing room as it has in other industries, but looking around
the managers in the English leagues, I can imagine there's a few who like to
throw a few f***s about when things aren’t going right on the pitch.
It has. you can't even have a light ale and half time cig anymore.
That's just one. It's 158 pages long so happy reading!
Scanning that thread, it seemed a couple of posters had spoken
to some players who said that Bowyer was a bit of a bully. It don't really go
into detail (from what I read), but I wonder what it used to be like in the
dressing room with the likes of Cloughy etc. Not sure if times have moved on in
the football dressing room as it has in other industries, but looking around
the managers in the English leagues, I can imagine there's a few who like to
throw a few f***s about when things aren’t going right on the pitch.
I think you are right - and some will think it's ok, and others won't. So that is one of the issues that created a lot of division and infighting on this forum. It all got a bit tedious. I'm going to leave it there as enough was said at the time for me and I am not keen to resurrect the whole thing.
Of course we need a manager and hopefully one who will propel us upwards and out of this dire miasmic swamp we have been swimming in for the past few years.
In my lifetime as a fan, the most successful managers we have had have been
Andy Nelson - got us promoted out of this division Mike Bailey - got us promoted out of this division Lennie Lawrence got us up to the top division and kept us there for a few seasons Curbs - got us promoted twice to the top division and established us as a PL team Chris Powell - got us promoted out of this division Lee Bowyer - got us promoted out of this division
Of these 6, only Nelson and Bailey had previous managerial careers and Bailey - only one year before he joined us.
It seems to me that all of the sifting and the recruitment has been manifestly on average much less successful when we have brought in those from outside.
Lawrence, Curbs and Bowyer were appointed at times of relative crisis when there were no or few other options.
So maybe Pearce should be given the job. Our history shows that someone like him is more likely to be successful.
It is easy to say because we won out, but on both occasions I found the Sunderland fans to be gracious.
After the latest one I was commiserating with a Sunderland fan on the tube and just before she got off the train she kissed me sweetly on the cheek. And I am an ugly bastard.
Apart from @ROKERITE gentle ribbing, Sunderland fans are the best I’ve come across. So many congratulated us after both games, often with a tear or two in their eyes. We were all singing anti Shearer songs with them in the pub before the 4-4, it was a right laugh and made the day even better.
Comments
He also has a history of violent and racist behaviour - again some care less than others, some think let bygones be bygones, he was a kid, some think it was all blown up out of proportion, others take it more seriously as an indicator of the kind of man he is.
What I do remember is the division and antagonism between fans, and it seems to have started up again already.
Some people have suggested Karl Robinson would be a good shout and others have taken the piss as a result, but I haven't seen the depth of feeling about that, or the Bewley brothers or whatever they are called. Appleton seems to have mostly inspired jokes and eyerolling.
If we get the 2017-2019 Bowyer great, the 2020-2021 version, not so good.
Yes his final few months were poor but we need someone to come in and have an impact straight away, something Bowyer has proven he can do.
I'm not disputing whether it happened, just saying I must've missed it
That's just one. It's 158 pages long so happy reading!
Just thought that if the interviews were that infamous, someone could've reeled off a few quotes
Scanning that thread, it seemed a couple of posters had spoken to some players who said that Bowyer was a bit of a bully. It don't really go into detail (from what I read), but I wonder what it used to be like in the dressing room with the likes of Cloughy etc. Not sure if times have moved on in the football dressing room as it has in other industries, but looking around the managers in the English leagues, I can imagine there's a few who like to throw a few f***s about when things aren’t going right on the pitch.
In my lifetime as a fan, the most successful managers we have had have been
Andy Nelson - got us promoted out of this division
Mike Bailey - got us promoted out of this division
Lennie Lawrence got us up to the top division and kept us there for a few seasons
Curbs - got us promoted twice to the top division and established us as a PL team
Chris Powell - got us promoted out of this division
Lee Bowyer - got us promoted out of this division
Of these 6, only Nelson and Bailey had previous managerial careers and Bailey - only one year before he joined us.
It seems to me that all of the sifting and the recruitment has been manifestly on average much less successful when we have brought in those from outside.
Lawrence, Curbs and Bowyer were appointed at times of relative crisis when there were no or few other options.
So maybe Pearce should be given the job. Our history shows that someone like him is more likely to be successful.
Just my opinion.
Winner gets a £125,000 pay off and is allowed to go home.
All racing each other back to the Job Centre