Here’s where I am. We’re fucked. There’s no doubt in my mind that we can now actually see with our own eyes that things are very different to how they were just five years ago. The data regarding ocean temperatures, sea ice, consecutive hot days and record temperature highs are now unequivocally point towards a now predicted rise in global temperatures in excess of the 1.5 degree target required to save ourselves. We have politicians like Peter Lilley prepared to come and look Chris Packham in the eye and defend inaction and deny the overwhelming scientific evidence and opinion. We have the USA likely to nominate a climate denier as the Republican candidate and although unlikely at this point could become President. The Chinese, who produce 50% of all emissions are commissioning a coal fired power station each and every week. At home a Prime Minister prepared to row back on green initiatives purely to secure a few votes. There is no other sound reason. If I’m wrong in my view that we’re fucked then I’d be grateful for some news to cling on to.
This is exactly how I feel. So worried for the world my kids will grow up in. Who would want to be in this new generation? I wouldn't.
People are playing silly games for their own power and personal gain while the planet is going up in smoke. It's sickening and it's not going to change.
The only thing that might help would be a green/left takeover globally. Authoritarian. Strict rules until the mess is sorted. War footing.
To the pearl clutchers, sorry, can’t see any other way. The right will never do anything. Voluntary action won’t work.
And yet you’ll still get 33% of the population voting Tory at the next election.
The point is entirely accurate and is exactly why we're fucked, there won't be a government elected that's willing to force the necessary changes and too many in society, like you and me, are simply not willing to make the sacrifices on our own.
Sadly, we're fucked and I see no way around that.
I am willing, and am quite green in quite a few areas. As a family we’ve cut back on red meant quite a lot, recycle most of the stuff that might otherwise go into landfill, and cycle or use public transport much of the time. Yes we have two holidays a year plus a trip to see my daughter in The Hague, but we offset the flights. We’re going by train next time as suggested by someone on the forum.
But as I said, I’d support a government that reduced the amount of air travel we’re allowed to take if it was shown to make a difference.
All those things are commendable, they really are, but deep down you know you can do more and for any real difference to be made, everyone MUST do more. Sadly - most - people just don’t want to, like with solar panels as discussed above. One poster is happy for the expense to become mandatory as long as it’s someone else.
Unfortunately people, including myself, are far too selfish to make any real difference and any government suggesting the necessary changes would be slaughtered at the ballot box.
I feel like when we emphasis personal responsibility we might deflect from what really needs to be done? I recently worked on a documentary for National Geographic on coral depletion and plastics in the oceans. We were planning the story and talking to the marine biologists who work in ocean and coral restoration. The director wanted to end the video with the biologists telling the audience what they can do at home or in their personal lives to help.
I expected them to say 'Don't use plastic straws' or something. They both said there really is nothing you can do personally, it comes down to government policy. That's what is wrecking coral and destroying sea life. As long as governments are freely pouring tons of crap into the ocean day by day, it will continue.
I think the environment is similar. The small things we do are to make ourselves feel better, or in some cases, have even been emphasised by the polluters lobby to distract from the fact that their clients and industries are the ones that need new government legislation and reform. That's the only way things are going to get better.
If anything is a worthy cause then perhaps best do some research before calling out others for their contribution and approach?
And whilst we might give up flying, eating meat and petrol / diesel cars as well as improving the energy efficiency of our homes that's just a tokenism contribution when one considers where real change is required.
Squabbling amongst ourselves is simply deflection and distraction from the vast impact of inter governmental collaboration across a wide range of areas:
Meanwhile renewables production continues to grow but global inequality means that in excess of 2BN people have no access to clean cooking and thus are forced to use coal, and other carbon fuels for cooking food.
It's clear that the climate crisis as well as the need for energy security as a result of Russian invasion of Ukraine, has pushed countries to move further into renewables. But its also clear that global demand for electricity is rising.
Whether national governments, multi nationals and peoples find a balance isn't so clear.
The beginning of your post has confused me @seriously_red. I didn't call out anyone for their contribution?
Apologies - was a reflection upon thread's general tone around personal decisions. And the "must do something" mentality that comes with all global topics.
On the one hand we feel helpless, but on the other sometimes it's best to stop and think... do some research.
I meant to add that it's not easy to get ones head around the sheer scale of the questions, especially with fake news and climate emergency denial around.
Maybe the Anti green stance is working for the Tories ...
Figures from Deltapoll showed the Tories have closed the gap between the parties from 24 points to 16 points in the space of a fortnight. Labour is down by three points to 44 per cent overall, while the Conservatives are up by five points on 28 per cent.
Maybe the Anti green stance is working for the Tories ...
Figures from Deltapoll showed the Tories have closed the gap between the parties from 24 points to 16 points in the space of a fortnight. Labour is down by three points to 44 per cent overall, while the Conservatives are up by five points on 28 per cent.
Some of the news that’s filtering through now about the pace/rate of change suggests to me that within the next few decades, governments could lose control of civil society in a number of ways. That may sound OTT, but consider mass migration of uninhabitable areas, the impact on agriculture and the potential economic impact of continued temperature rises, I have no faith in human behaviour on a mass scale to deal with this at all.
Everything is against us at the moment, retracting/melting see ice in the Antarctic, sea temperatures rising trapping more heat, permafrost releasing x amount of carbon, and extreme weather events that all but the very ignorant can see are a direct result of climate change.
This feels like real end of days stuff, and I don’t care if people think it’s OTT.
In a time when we need foresight and acceptance of the facts and action to address our impending doom, we have political polarization about net zero. Crazy.
We have seen many movies produced about asteroids impacting the earth and destroying our species, yet we’ve got something similar playing out before our very eyes, and I don’t think half the population have woken up to it yet
Today we have the news that the Rosebank field has been given the go ahead. It is to be developed by a Norwegian company and goes against all the climate warnings. The products will be sold on the open market, so won't bring down energy bills for the UK population and much of it is likely to be exported anyway. Renewable energy is cheaper to produce and would bring down bills, the Government should be doing all it can to facilitate the growth of green technology, not new oil fields.
The signal this sends out to the population and the rest of the world is appalling.
Some of the news that’s filtering through now about the pace/rate of change suggests to me that within the next few decades, governments could lose control of civil society in a number of ways. That may sound OTT, but consider mass migration of uninhabitable areas, the impact on agriculture and the potential economic impact of continued temperature rises, I have no faith in human behaviour on a mass scale to deal with this at all.
Everything is against us at the moment, retracting/melting see ice in the Antarctic, sea temperatures rising trapping more heat, permafrost releasing x amount of carbon, and extreme weather events that all but the very ignorant can see are a direct result of climate change.
This feels like real end of days stuff, and I don’t care if people think it’s OTT.
In a time when we need foresight and acceptance of the facts and action to address our impending doom, we have political polarization about net zero. Crazy.
We have seen many movies produced about asteroids impacting the earth and destroying our species, yet we’ve got something similar playing out before our very eyes, and I don’t think half the population have woken up to it yet
I make you right. It's because of the immediacy of an event like an asteroid hit. Climate change is a gradual, albeit rapidly accelerating now, onset. Administrations don't have to act today because it won't hit today in such a dramatic way. How many actually see it as a crisis demanding action now I wonder, but that's what it is surely.
Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow is not the right way to go because tomorrow never comes. I know it did yesterday, but let's park that for now.
That this is deemed a political subject and there is actually debate around it has made me conclude we haven't got much chance of surviving this. As the human race I mean. I'm nearly 59 so should be ok!!!!
That this is deemed a political subject and there is actually debate around it has made me conclude we haven't got much chance of surving this. As the human race I mean. I'm nearly 59 so should be ok!!!!
So you think you'll live through it then 😉
I'm of similar age but as plenty have already, or are now, experiencing the dire consequences, we can expect to be impacted greatly within what time we have left, that's you and I, whether that be in changes to the climate itself or through the imposition of draconian measures to help combat those effects
I agree that we're doomed as a race, but there's a whole lot more that could and should be done now to extend the timeframe of humans existence on the planet. It's us that's shortening it.
Some of the news that’s filtering through now about the pace/rate of change suggests to me that within the next few decades, governments could lose control of civil society in a number of ways. That may sound OTT, but consider mass migration of uninhabitable areas, the impact on agriculture and the potential economic impact of continued temperature rises, I have no faith in human behaviour on a mass scale to deal with this at all.
Everything is against us at the moment, retracting/melting see ice in the Antarctic, sea temperatures rising trapping more heat, permafrost releasing x amount of carbon, and extreme weather events that all but the very ignorant can see are a direct result of climate change.
This feels like real end of days stuff, and I don’t care if people think it’s OTT.
In a time when we need foresight and acceptance of the facts and action to address our impending doom, we have political polarization about net zero. Crazy.
We have seen many movies produced about asteroids impacting the earth and destroying our species, yet we’ve got something similar playing out before our very eyes, and I don’t think half the population have woken up to it yet
I make you right. It's because of the immediacy of an event like an asteroid hit. Climate change is a gradual, albeit rapidly accelerating now, onset. Administrations don't have to act today because it won't hit today in such a dramatic way. How many actually see it as a crisis demanding action now I wonder, but that's what it is surely.
Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow is not the right way to go because tomorrow never comes. I know it did yesterday, but let's park that for now.
It’s madness. Putting aside the rationale Sunak has given us for delaying net zero, I would love to know if he has sat down with leading scientists and had a conversation about the short, mid and long term impact to both the UK and the world about the impact of climate change.
No politics, just a simple ‘have you had that conversation, and what are your contingency plans for X scenario?”
this is exactly the type of conversation every leading politician should be having right now
That this is deemed a political subject and there is actually debate around it has made me conclude we haven't got much chance of surving this. As the human race I mean. I'm nearly 59 so should be ok!!!!
So you think you'll live through it then 😉
I'm of similar age but as plenty have already, or are now, experiencing the dire consequences, we can expect to be impacted greatly within what time we have left, that's you and I, whether that be in changes to the climate itself or through the imposition of draconian measures to help combat those effects
I agree that we're doomed as a race, but there's a whole lot more that could and should be done now to extend the timeframe of humans existence on the planet. It's us that's shortening it.
The super rich will survive somehow. Musk is preparing to fly off to space at some time in the future.
That this is deemed a political subject and there is actually debate around it has made me conclude we haven't got much chance of surving this. As the human race I mean. I'm nearly 59 so should be ok!!!!
So you think you'll live through it then 😉
I'm of similar age but as plenty have already, or are now, experiencing the dire consequences, we can expect to be impacted greatly within what time we have left, that's you and I, whether that be in changes to the climate itself or through the imposition of draconian measures to help combat those effects
I agree that we're doomed as a race, but there's a whole lot more that could and should be done now to extend the timeframe of humans existence on the planet. It's us that's shortening it.
The super rich will survive somehow. Musk is preparing to fly off to space at some time in the future.
They'll live the longest, but are still living tissue so if the climate isn't right for supporting human life, they'll find it a struggle.
So the Rosebank oil field has the green light now and the licence for it won't be revoked even if Labour wins next time. Oh well, or rather oil well. It's not the future we should be looking to, 80% for export apparently and won't bring down prices being hard to extract and refine. Still, an economic boost, so f*ck the environmental consequences.
That this is deemed a political subject and there is actually debate around it has made me conclude we haven't got much chance of surving this. As the human race I mean. I'm nearly 59 so should be ok!!!!
So you think you'll live through it then 😉
I'm of similar age but as plenty have already, or are now, experiencing the dire consequences, we can expect to be impacted greatly within what time we have left, that's you and I, whether that be in changes to the climate itself or through the imposition of draconian measures to help combat those effects
I agree that we're doomed as a race, but there's a whole lot more that could and should be done now to extend the timeframe of humans existence on the planet. It's us that's shortening it.
Of course there should but a lot of people don't see the need. Even if virtually all of the scientists say this is happening, they will dig one up that agrees with them.
Some of the news that’s filtering through now about the pace/rate of change suggests to me that within the next few decades, governments could lose control of civil society in a number of ways. That may sound OTT, but consider mass migration of uninhabitable areas, the impact on agriculture and the potential economic impact of continued temperature rises, I have no faith in human behaviour on a mass scale to deal with this at all.
Everything is against us at the moment, retracting/melting see ice in the Antarctic, sea temperatures rising trapping more heat, permafrost releasing x amount of carbon, and extreme weather events that all but the very ignorant can see are a direct result of climate change.
This feels like real end of days stuff, and I don’t care if people think it’s OTT.
In a time when we need foresight and acceptance of the facts and action to address our impending doom, we have political polarization about net zero. Crazy.
We have seen many movies produced about asteroids impacting the earth and destroying our species, yet we’ve got something similar playing out before our very eyes, and I don’t think half the population have woken up to it yet
I make you right. It's because of the immediacy of an event like an asteroid hit. Climate change is a gradual, albeit rapidly accelerating now, onset. Administrations don't have to act today because it won't hit today in such a dramatic way. How many actually see it as a crisis demanding action now I wonder, but that's what it is surely.
Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow is not the right way to go because tomorrow never comes. I know it did yesterday, but let's park that for now.
It’s madness. Putting aside the rationale Sunak has given us for delaying net zero, I would love to know if he has sat down with leading scientists and had a conversation about the short, mid and long term impact to both the UK and the world about the impact of climate change.
No politics, just a simple ‘have you had that conversation, and what are your contingency plans for X scenario?”
this is exactly the type of conversation every leading politician should be having right now
It’s cute you think he’d care. He wants to win the next election, nothing else matters.
The cost of solar power has dropped by nearly 90 per cent over the last decade, according to new research, taking it towards a key level that will make fossil fuel-generated power no longer economically viable.
Calculations by Berlin-based Mercator Research Institute on Global Commons and Climate Change (MCC) found that the plummeting price of electricity produced by solar panels – down 87 per cent since 2013 – means the transition to renewable energy sources is “cheaper than expected”.
The falling costs of batteries and other renewable technologies could also help supercharge the trend towards cleaner energy and meeting climate targets.
“Some calculations even suggest that the world’s entire energy consumption in 2050 could be completely and cost-effectively covered by solar technology and other renewables,” said Felix Creutzig, who led the research.
Anyone who looks at the facts and doesn’t conclude that the climate emergency isn’t a potential extinction event for our planet is frankly a moron. Political figures the world over will never make the radical decisions required to change course because we the public wouldn’t accept the hardships. Humans are basically selfish and would not sacrifice anything to try and save the planet for future generations beyond doing a bit of recycling. the only chance we have is that somewhere there is a clever scientific brain that can come up with a reversal
Some of the news that’s filtering through now about the pace/rate of change suggests to me that within the next few decades, governments could lose control of civil society in a number of ways. That may sound OTT, but consider mass migration of uninhabitable areas, the impact on agriculture and the potential economic impact of continued temperature rises, I have no faith in human behaviour on a mass scale to deal with this at all.
Everything is against us at the moment, retracting/melting see ice in the Antarctic, sea temperatures rising trapping more heat, permafrost releasing x amount of carbon, and extreme weather events that all but the very ignorant can see are a direct result of climate change.
This feels like real end of days stuff, and I don’t care if people think it’s OTT.
In a time when we need foresight and acceptance of the facts and action to address our impending doom, we have political polarization about net zero. Crazy.
We have seen many movies produced about asteroids impacting the earth and destroying our species, yet we’ve got something similar playing out before our very eyes, and I don’t think half the population have woken up to it yet
I make you right. It's because of the immediacy of an event like an asteroid hit. Climate change is a gradual, albeit rapidly accelerating now, onset. Administrations don't have to act today because it won't hit today in such a dramatic way. How many actually see it as a crisis demanding action now I wonder, but that's what it is surely.
Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow is not the right way to go because tomorrow never comes. I know it did yesterday, but let's park that for now.
It’s madness. Putting aside the rationale Sunak has given us for delaying net zero, I would love to know if he has sat down with leading scientists and had a conversation about the short, mid and long term impact to both the UK and the world about the impact of climate change.
No politics, just a simple ‘have you had that conversation, and what are your contingency plans for X scenario?”
this is exactly the type of conversation every leading politician should be having right now
It’s cute you think he’d care. He wants to win the next election, nothing else matters.
I 100% know he doesn’t care, more so that asking him an objective question would flush him out. It’s irrelevant as you say. All he wants to do his maintain power and the delaying of net zero sings to a particular crowd. That’s the saddest part about this. Going on twitter today, you would think that someone has planned to create such a divisive atmosphere in the world at the moment - my timeline is full of the right and the left just attacking one another. Taking this majorly off topic, but someone like Putin must love seeing this divide in the western hemisphere at the moment. It seems like whatever the issue, be it climate change, immigration, cost of living, people are ready to go at each other, full throttle
It’s not long before the typical left/right attacks are launched. I’ve really tried to step back from any of it and not get sucked in any more.
Anyone who looks at the facts and doesn’t conclude that the climate emergency isn’t a potential extinction event for our planet is frankly a moron. Political figures the world over will never make the radical decisions required to change course because we the public wouldn’t accept the hardships. Humans are basically selfish and would not sacrifice anything to try and save the planet for future generations beyond doing a bit of recycling. the only chance we have is that somewhere there is a clever scientific brain that can come up with a reversal
We already have the know how and technology to mitigate the effects of climate change. It's the collective will power to apply/enforce it that's lacking.
Anyone who looks at the facts and doesn’t conclude that the climate emergency isn’t a potential extinction event for our planet is frankly a moron. Political figures the world over will never make the radical decisions required to change course because we the public wouldn’t accept the hardships. Humans are basically selfish and would not sacrifice anything to try and save the planet for future generations beyond doing a bit of recycling. the only chance we have is that somewhere there is a clever scientific brain that can come up with a reversal
We already have the know how and technology to mitigate the effects of climate change. It's the collective will power to apply/enforce it that's lacking.
Enforcement is the duty of world leaders. If we don't have the other options, we can't choose them.
We should all be very worried about the state of nature in the UK, the latest report states that of the species studied, there has been a decline of 19% since monitoring began in 1970. Climate change and intensive farming practices are the main drivers of this decline.
Loss of biodiversity is extremely serious and needs action on a landscape scale. It's very worrying that the present Government is watering down so many of the environmental protections that were in place, despite promises that they would not do so.
The UK is currently classified as one of the most nature depleted countries in the world.
We should all be very worried about the state of nature in the UK, the latest report states that of the species studied, there has been a decline of 19% since monitoring began in 1970. Climate change and intensive farming practices are the main drivers of this decline.
Loss of biodiversity is extremely serious and needs action on a landscape scale. It's very worrying that the present Government is watering down so many of the environmental protections that were in place, despite promises that they would not do so.
The UK is currently classified as one of the most nature depleted countries in the world.
It’s amazing to read this, and then read that Sunak’s wife’s family have just signed a multibillion pound deal with BP. That’s ultimately the crux of it. When he gives the green light to any hydrocarbon initiative, it’s not about energy security, because there’s no state owned British Petrochemical producer. They’re all licensed to private companies, none of which represent Britain and then the oil and gas is sold on the open market. It’s simply to line his family’s pockets
We should all be very worried about the state of nature in the UK, the latest report states that of the species studied, there has been a decline of 19% since monitoring began in 1970. Climate change and intensive farming practices are the main drivers of this decline.
Loss of biodiversity is extremely serious and needs action on a landscape scale. It's very worrying that the present Government is watering down so many of the environmental protections that were in place, despite promises that they would not do so.
The UK is currently classified as one of the most nature depleted countries in the world.
It’s amazing to read this, and then read that Sunak’s wife’s family have just signed a multibillion pound deal with BP. That’s ultimately the crux of it. When he gives the green light to any hydrocarbon initiative, it’s not about energy security, because there’s no state owned British Petrochemical producer. They’re all licensed to private companies, none of which represent Britain and then the oil and gas is sold on the open market. It’s simply to line his family’s pockets
He is fortunate that there are many thousands of independent civil servants, opposition politicians and investigative journalists that are complicit in him conducting this multi million pound fraud.
Honestly, this country gets more like Putin's Russia every day.
Any politician with money is always "lining [mates/families/their] pockets" it's the laziest and easiest trope going, the parallel of "in hock to their union paymasters" about everything anyone on the left does.
Any politician with money is always "lining [mates/families/their] pockets" it's the laziest and easiest trope going, the parallel of "in hock to their union paymasters" about everything anyone on the left does.
Lazy.
Yet still fairly accurate, unless there’s some other reason to ditch the pre agreed targets?
Comments
On the one hand we feel helpless, but on the other sometimes it's best to stop and think... do some research.
I meant to add that it's not easy to get ones head around the sheer scale of the questions, especially with fake news and climate emergency denial around.
Figures from Deltapoll showed the Tories have closed the gap between the parties from 24 points to 16 points in the space of a fortnight. Labour is down by three points to 44 per cent overall, while the Conservatives are up by five points on 28 per cent.
Everything is against us at the moment, retracting/melting see ice in the Antarctic, sea temperatures rising trapping more heat, permafrost releasing x amount of carbon, and extreme weather events that all but the very ignorant can see are a direct result of climate change.
This feels like real end of days stuff, and I don’t care if people think it’s OTT.
The signal this sends out to the population and the rest of the world is appalling.
https://news.sky.com/story/untapped-rosebank-oil-and-gas-field-north-of-scotland-approved-for-development-amid-row-over-climate-damage-12893255
Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow is not the right way to go because tomorrow never comes. I know it did yesterday, but let's park that for now.
I'm of similar age but as plenty have already, or are now, experiencing the dire consequences, we can expect to be impacted greatly within what time we have left, that's you and I, whether that be in changes to the climate itself or through the imposition of draconian measures to help combat those effects
I agree that we're doomed as a race, but there's a whole lot more that could and should be done now to extend the timeframe of humans existence on the planet. It's us that's shortening it.
No politics, just a simple ‘have you had that conversation, and what are your contingency plans for X scenario?”
this is exactly the type of conversation every leading politician should be having right now
So the Rosebank oil field has the green light now and the licence for it won't be revoked even if Labour wins next time. Oh well, or rather oil well. It's not the future we should be looking to, 80% for export apparently and won't bring down prices being hard to extract and refine. Still, an economic boost, so f*ck the environmental consequences.
The cost of solar power has dropped by nearly 90 per cent over the last decade, according to new research, taking it towards a key level that will make fossil fuel-generated power no longer economically viable.
Calculations by Berlin-based Mercator Research Institute on Global Commons and Climate Change (MCC) found that the plummeting price of electricity produced by solar panels – down 87 per cent since 2013 – means the transition to renewable energy sources is “cheaper than expected”.
The falling costs of batteries and other renewable technologies could also help supercharge the trend towards cleaner energy and meeting climate targets.
“Some calculations even suggest that the world’s entire energy consumption in 2050 could be completely and cost-effectively covered by solar technology and other renewables,” said Felix Creutzig, who led the research.
The cost of renewable energy is increasingly undercutting fossils
the only chance we have is that somewhere there is a clever scientific brain that can come up with a reversal
It’s not long before the typical left/right attacks are launched. I’ve really tried to step back from any of it and not get sucked in any more.
Loss of biodiversity is extremely serious and needs action on a landscape scale. It's very worrying that the present Government is watering down so many of the environmental protections that were in place, despite promises that they would not do so.
The UK is currently classified as one of the most nature depleted countries in the world.
https://nbn.org.uk/news/state-of-nature-2023/
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/our-cause/nature-climate/state-of-nature-report-2023
Honestly, this country gets more like Putin's Russia every day.
Lazy.