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MATCH THREAD (+POST p23): Charlton Athl v Cray Valley PM: FA Cup 🏆1st Rd: Sun 5 Nov 2023 | KO 17:30

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Comments

  • Bailey said:
    Bailey said:
    I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
    Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
    But put it in context.
    We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
    All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
    Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge. 
    No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.

    Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around. 


    I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all. 
    We all have hope, hope that SE7 sell up.
  • Bailey said:
    I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
    Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
    But put it in context.
    We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
    All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
    Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge. 
    No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.

    Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around. 


    To give one example, the club needs to invest in the squad to get promoted, but the business model, if it justifies that description, is to cut costs by utilising youth. We already have Appleton saying he wants more experience and Methven that the club can avoid FFP limits by playing U21s. Which is it?

    The club is losing £7m a year which the “ownership group” has to cover on top of whatever it paid Sandgaard. The numbers are not going to move significantly because there is nothing much to cut that won’t damage results. The prospect of materially increasing the profit on commercial activities is negligible. Attendances are going backwards in L1. You can only cover the loss by selling the players you need to succeed. Sooner rather than later the money men will work out that it is never going to add up and bail out. 

    If clubs like Plymouth can get promoted and Oxford can challenge then Charlton ought to be able to do it; indeed we did in 2019. But you have to get the basics right. 

    You need a story to tell that fans can believe in. Bowyer could provide that, like him or not. I think this group have the same level of disdain for supporters as Duchatelet. They will play the game a bit more but ultimately they are not interested. Fans are a necessary evil. 

    The club should never have been able to progress from where it was in 1991 to where it was in 1998 but it did because it was driven to succeed from top to bottom. Methven and co don’t get that because they neither understand the club not care about it. It’s a means to an end for them, but they will never get the buy-in.

    A set-up where the club charges people to meet Rodwell in a lounge before the game and is clueless on a major external threat to attendances (parking) has no chance.  

    Ultimately the stadium situation is what stops us getting better people in. I don’t see that changing, but I’m certainly not going to pretend I think rinse and return will provide a solution. Let’s hope I’m wrong.





    Thankyou Airman, that's more like the measured comments I expect from you. I'm not expecting you to give me answers to the problems, and I look around at other similar size clubs in this division and think that their supporters are just as frustrated, and their clubs bank balance is leaking just as bad as Charlton's but I don't think the reserves drawing with Cray is a reflection of the club or the talent that is in this club. The kids give me hope and yes I agree, the owners will cash in on at least one, what owner of Charlton hasn't, but in my opinion there is enough coming through to give us some sort of a chance. As for the players who appeared yesterday, I was only disappointed only with Ness, the rest I care little about as they won't be here by the seasons end. 
  • Bailey said:
    Bailey said:
    I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
    Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
    But put it in context.
    We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
    All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
    Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge. 
    No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.

    Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around. 


    I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all. 
    We all have hope, hope that SE7 sell up.
    And the buyer is who ?
  • Bailey said:
    Bailey said:
    I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
    Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
    But put it in context.
    We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
    All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
    Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge. 
    No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.

    Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around. 


    I'll take it there is no alternative than Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all. 
    We’ve done well in parts of games this season and I’ve enjoyed watching the forwards at home recently, just as there were some enjoyable games last season - Ipswich 4-4, Brighton, Shrewsbury 6-0. I was quite angry last night.

    It ought to be the players and manager who are humiliated by their inability to beat a team five divisions lower, live on national TV, but we all know it’s actually the fans. 

    Bloody well show some respect, to the opposition, the competition and the people who pay to watch week in, week out. It’s the FA Cup and such results are what still makes it great, far more so than than the now usually tedious later stages.

    But remember when they trot out the platitudes about the people who travelled to Lincoln and Wigan that none of it is meant. It can’t be, because when it came to Cray Valley and humiliating the fans who live and breathe Charlton, the club just couldn’t be bothered. 
    The team who appeared couldn't be bothered Airman, the club ? that's actually us, that's why we feel let down more than anyone. 
  • DOUCHER said:
    DOUCHER said:
    DOUCHER said:
    Glad I didn’t go or watch it on tv - I’m done with reserve games dressed up as proper fixtures - I never watched reserve games when it was called the combination league and won’t watch them now so that rules out any cup games for me unless we reach the quarter finals in the fa cup or possibly the league cup - anything else, I’m not interested. 
    Even if you didn't want to go, surely you should have bought a ticket - otherwise how can you be a proper fan?  


    Nope - I’ve done my time with these games and won’t go to them any more - they r a piss take and it’s how football is now - I won’t go and then moan about it, I just don’t go 
    Excellent - does that mean that I no longer need to buy a season ticket (even if I can only go to about 5 home games a year) to be regarded as a proper fan, or is it just an exemption for you in relation to cup games (unless we get to the quarter final)?  
    Zzzzzz 
    I know, but it's fun highlighting it...
    maybe fun for you but its very boring correcting people like you - you can only go to 5 games - why would you get a season ticket? please read what i said - if u can be bothered - and try to understand it before highlighting something and making yourself look stupid would be my advice 
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  • Bailey said:
    I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
    Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
    But put it in context.
    We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
    All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
    Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge. 
    No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.

    Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around. 


    To give one example, the club needs to invest in the squad to get promoted, but the business model, if it justifies that description, is to cut costs by utilising youth. We already have Appleton saying he wants more experience and Methven that the club can avoid FFP limits by playing U21s. Which is it?

    The club is losing £7m a year which the “ownership group” has to cover on top of whatever it paid Sandgaard. The numbers are not going to move significantly because there is nothing much to cut that won’t damage results. The prospect of materially increasing the profit on commercial activities is negligible. Attendances are going backwards in L1. You can only cover the loss by selling the players you need to succeed. Sooner rather than later the money men will work out that it is never going to add up and bail out. 

    If clubs like Plymouth can get promoted and Oxford can challenge then Charlton ought to be able to do it; indeed we did in 2019. But you have to get the basics right. 

    You need a story to tell that fans can believe in. Bowyer could provide that, like him or not. I think this group have the same level of disdain for supporters as Duchatelet. They will play the game a bit more but ultimately they are not interested. Fans are a necessary evil. 

    The club should never have been able to progress from where it was in 1991 to where it was in 1998 but it did because it was driven to succeed from top to bottom. Methven and co don’t get that because they neither understand the club not care about it. It’s a means to an end for them, but they will never get the buy-in.

    A set-up where the club charges people to meet Rodwell in a lounge before the game and is clueless on a major external threat to attendances (parking) has no chance.  

    Ultimately the stadium situation is what stops us getting better people in. I don’t see that changing, but I’m certainly not going to pretend I think rinse and return will provide a solution. Let’s hope I’m wrong.





    Bowyer did it, Powell did it - these owners are taking a punt that another manager may just do it - the set up in the 90's etc was great but lets not pretend that our success and transformation into a proper football club again wasn't fundamentally down to Alan Curbishley. 
  • Bailey said:
    Bailey said:
    Bailey said:
    I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
    Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
    But put it in context.
    We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
    All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
    Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge. 
    No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.

    Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around. 


    I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all. 
    We all have hope, hope that SE7 sell up.
    And the buyer is who ?
    Somebody with ambition, which this lot don't have.
  • Sandgaard had ambition…
  • edited November 2023
    Bailey said:
    Bailey said:
    Bailey said:
    I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
    Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
    But put it in context.
    We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
    All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
    Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge. 
    No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.

    Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around. 


    I'll take it there is no alternative then Airman. Please do us a favour then, try to make your comments balanced, I don't remember you coming on here declaring the first half at Wigan, the best 45 mins we've seen this season but you are straight in with 'we're all going to hell' comments after the reserves got held at home by a team eight divisions below. Since 1968 I've seen shit players, shit managers and worse than that, shit owners, but the one thing I've had since 1968 is hope and if you haven't got hope you've got dick all. 
    We all have hope, hope that SE7 sell up.
    And the buyer is who ?
    Somebody with ambition, which this lot don't have.
    East Street investments are looking for a club ! 
    So you really don't know do you, just an uninformed rant. Just scroll up or go through thousands of posts as to why nobody wants to invest in Charlton Athletic. The club is divorced from the ground, with a fifty mill price tag on it that is way above its current worth.Charlton are a first division club losing 7 million a year and even if they were to get promoted then they would lose just as much. With no guarantee of recovering the investment made, anyone with 'ambition' as you call it has enough brains to steer clear. 
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  • swordfish said:
    When posters argue that we shouldn't accept being an average L1 club, what do they mean? What am I guilty of for living with the reality of the present day and not in the past?

    Of course I'd like us to be competing higher up the leagues with ambitious owners and want us to be successful, as we all do, but I don't feel any more entitled than supporters of other clubs in L1, regardless of size/ history. When did that ever win us three points?  It's eleven v eleven on the grass!

    Supporting football clubs is a rollercoaster experience, but some seem so preoccupied feeling our's is located in the wrong place in L1 that they don't want to get on board and take (accept) the ride. They don't want others to either and make that quite clear.

    Well, unless you have pots of money to splurge on owning the club, there's damn all you can do about it other than ask questions and try to hold the owners to account. It is what it is. 

    Apologies for the rant, and of course I acknowledge the magnificent efforts of our supporters to shape our history in the past, but endlessly wishing we were somewhere we're not does me no good at all.
    I have this conversation with a good mate of mine. 
    Both of us have been supporting Charlton home and away for over 55 years. 
    He sees things pretty much as you do.

    My take is that our natural position in the football pyramid is probably about mid table in the championship. 

    The years we had in the top flight under Lenny and Curbs we was definitely punching above our weight. 

    The length of time we are spending in league one shows we are not being run as we should be.
    When I go to away games and see just how small some of the grounds are and how small the support is it just confirms how far we have fallen and I find it hard to accept. 

    Nothing I can do about it though that's up to the people that own the club.
    At the end of the day some supporters are more accepting of our position than others.

    All about opinions I suppose.
    It is, and thanks for replying with yours.

    Look, I can study the tables and see that Brentford are the third best placed London club in the leagues. My instinct is to think they should be where we are, but I accept the footballing landscape is a constantly changing one and for far too long we've been digging ourselves into a bigger hole.

    Our time will come again I'm sure.
  • DOUCHER said:
    Bailey said:
    I cannot believe the anti Appleton bollocks on here.
    Yes a very poor display by 11 fringe players or coming back from injury. They should have been able to see off CV comfortably and if Kirk hadn't been so (typically) pathetic in front of goal, they would have.
    But put it in context.
    We played a good Wigan side off their own park for 80 minutes last Tuesday - one of the best displays since we pissed all over Forest in the first half at The Valley in the Championship.
    All that matters this season is the League and if yesterday equipped Appleton with the case to demand serious turn out of crud and strengthening of the squad in January, then it's all to the good.
    Personally I couldn't give a flying **** if we go through to Round 2 or not. Nothing matters but a promotion challenge. 
    No chance. I don’t care about Appleton one way or another - he’s just the latest in a line of nonentities who will move on quickly. But we don’t have the players, the culture or the commitment in the squad to get promoted.

    Airman, that being the case please give me an alternative, because I fail to see one and I also fail to see how anyone, even with the best of intentions, turns this club around. 


    To give one example, the club needs to invest in the squad to get promoted, but the business model, if it justifies that description, is to cut costs by utilising youth. We already have Appleton saying he wants more experience and Methven that the club can avoid FFP limits by playing U21s. Which is it?

    The club is losing £7m a year which the “ownership group” has to cover on top of whatever it paid Sandgaard. The numbers are not going to move significantly because there is nothing much to cut that won’t damage results. The prospect of materially increasing the profit on commercial activities is negligible. Attendances are going backwards in L1. You can only cover the loss by selling the players you need to succeed. Sooner rather than later the money men will work out that it is never going to add up and bail out. 

    If clubs like Plymouth can get promoted and Oxford can challenge then Charlton ought to be able to do it; indeed we did in 2019. But you have to get the basics right. 

    You need a story to tell that fans can believe in. Bowyer could provide that, like him or not. I think this group have the same level of disdain for supporters as Duchatelet. They will play the game a bit more but ultimately they are not interested. Fans are a necessary evil. 

    The club should never have been able to progress from where it was in 1991 to where it was in 1998 but it did because it was driven to succeed from top to bottom. Methven and co don’t get that because they neither understand the club not care about it. It’s a means to an end for them, but they will never get the buy-in.

    A set-up where the club charges people to meet Rodwell in a lounge before the game and is clueless on a major external threat to attendances (parking) has no chance.  

    Ultimately the stadium situation is what stops us getting better people in. I don’t see that changing, but I’m certainly not going to pretend I think rinse and return will provide a solution. Let’s hope I’m wrong.





    Bowyer did it, Powell did it - these owners are taking a punt that another manager may just do it - the set up in the 90's etc was great but lets not pretend that our success and transformation into a proper football club again wasn't fundamentally down to Alan Curbishley. 
    I don’t think the return to The Valley and  rebuilding the ground up to 1998 was realistically down to Curbs, do you? I think it had a lot more to do with the board (and fans). Without that there isn’t a club to manage.

    You can make a better argument post 98.
    Post 98 sorted the ground out properly and brought us 20k plus crowds and enabled you and others to do hat you were trying to do a lot more effectively 
  •  providing they're convinced it's being managed well and there is a return to be made by selected further investment. And the only way they will ever make a return is by promotion.

    It's a gazillion to one shot they'll make any return on us . Premiership is where the alleged profit may be but get there and then see what it's cost to get there and then stay there , it's not happening at a club like Charlton starting from this low a base .
    They're burning their money and I hope they have done the correct due dilligence rather than fall for the salesmans patter and are ready to dig deep cos a vanity project could bring success at a large cost to them ,  as a business investment not on your nelly will there be a return 
  • edited November 2023
     providing they're convinced it's being managed well and there is a return to be made by selected further investment. And the only way they will ever make a return is by promotion.

    It's a gazillion to one shot they'll make any return on us . Premiership is where the alleged profit may be but get there and then see what it's cost to get there and then stay there , it's not happening at a club like Charlton starting from this low a base .
    They're burning their money and I hope they have done the correct due dilligence rather than fall for the salesmans patter and are ready to dig deep cos a vanity project could bring success at a large cost to them ,  as a business investment not on your nelly will there be a return 
    There are investors whose strategy is to buy “Penny shares”. Shares of crud companies that nobody wants to own.
    Why?
    Because any improvement in performance can prompt other investors to take an interest and elevate the share price to 10p.
    Still a naff business but the investors have made a 900% gain.
    Our current owners can still potentially make a return by flipping the club if we gain promotion to the Championship, even if we remain loss-making, because other investors may say, look at Brentford or now Ipswich. The PL is now a possibility.
    As it happens, they’ve denied it’s a flip they’re looking for. Hopefully we’ll find out if that’s true.
  • edited November 2023
    Leuth said:
    I saw a fairly reasonable vlogger yesterday say that this result was a sackable  offence.

    As much as I am not sure about that, I have never been sold on Appleton. I don't see any tactics when we play, I think a lot of our good results are down to having a few, genuinely decent players and them having stellar performances, not tactical management. If he was a manager who had a playstyle it would have shown against a part-time team, he couldn't even manage that. According to a fair few people these professionals should have got a result so Appleton must be tactically inept? It's either that or they aren't professional standard.

    I have him in the same boat as Garner, Adkins, Holden, Slade etc. Just a very ordinary bloke who's been fortunate enough to get himself in the footballing managerial scheme and clubs take chances on relative past success. 

    I think of every fan group who tried to sell him to us and it was largely Oxford and Lincoln fans. No disrespect to them but our ambition is simply higher than theirs. They were accustomed to watching league 2 footie (or recently) while he was there. Most of us would be ashamed to operate at that level, we are all fed up of league 1 as is. 

     
    I just think it's inevitable we go nowhere again this season and he will just be another manager we will be reeling off in the future that didn't get it right. 

    Might sound harsh but take away the likes of Dobbo, May, CBT, Leaburn and some of the newer lads like Jones and of course our youth and then I truly couldn't give a b*llocks about most of these players. They take the p*ss and can't even be bothered to bust a gut. 
    Aren't you meant to be someone who represents our club to the wider internet? This statement is embarrassing 

    No I'm not, all my views are my own perception. I never claim to represent every Charlton fan when I speak.

    I think our results have flattered to deceive a little bit and I am of the stance it has been down to individual quality rather than tactics. We could have had a caretaker manager and those goals at Wigan would have still happened as they were mostly the result of individual brilliance.

    I don't see a playstyle happening for us, I see players being played out of position and individuals such as Watson, Dobson, CBT, May and a few others putting in good enough performances to get us some results.

    Subject to change of course but that's how I see it. I also don't entirely blame Appleton as if it was up to me and I owned this club, only around 5 of these senior players would have a contract here and then a handful of the youth. It's hard to implement a playstyle on bang average players as Ben Garner found out.
  • I thought Braziliance was a club ambassador in a highly paid role alongside Methven and co 

  • Our current owners can still potentially make a return by flipping the club if we gain promotion to the Championship, even if we remain loss-making, because other investors may say, look at Brentford or now Ipswich. The PL is now a possibility.

    I genuinely can't see anyone all of a sudden paying £20m+ for us if we got promoted this season and then add on the costs each year when we don't go up,  in our present no ground/training ground ownership state .

    Ipswich have spent real money to get where they are ... not minged about trying to save pennies .
    Everyone's trying to be the next Brentford but they're the outlier 
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