MATCH THREAD (+POSTp22): Gillingham vs Charlton Athletic: FA Cup🏆(2): Sat 2nd Dec 2023 | KO 3.00PM

Braziliance

cabbles said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

The power of Chuks Aneke??? Have a word. He was okay when he came back, but if we’re pinning our hopes on him we need our heads testing.  What is it about this guy that has morphed him into some sort of demigod at Charlton.  He had a run in 19/20 when he scored a few goals and people have pinned him as a cheat code, something akin to a unstoppable force when fit, but ultimately, even when fit, he’s an adequate player at this level.  

I genuinely think this is one of the problems among our fan base in recent years.  We’ve been reduced to such mediocre crap that we’re like an abused animal that gets thrown the odd bit of food and tell ourselves everything will be alright.  I wanted to use a better analogy than that but I just despair of it sometimes.  

It’s a sorry, sorry, story, and it goes on, and on, and on.  Aneke and the rest of this shower of turd can go and never wear the shirt again as far as I’m concerned.  None of them will be missed in years to come 

He's unplayable when he's fit and up for it, we have all seen it. Our run was down to Chuks putting in performances that enabled other players, a physical presence up top completely changed our football.

I am not naive enough to say Chuks is the answer, but I can say with confidence that had he not got injured, we would have more points on the board. He is an impactful player just like May and we are certainly worse off without him

Callumcafc

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

Might sound bizarre, but I am not counting wins against Villas u21s, Cray Valley and Sutton. You can only beat what's in front of you, but that's such low level competition. Even Sutton didn't play their full strength side.

So league games only.

Appleton (12): 5 wins, 5 draws, 2 losses (Lincoln & Bolton)

Holden/Pearce (previous 12): 5 wins, 1 draw, 6 losses (Ipswich, Morecambe, Peterborough, Bristol R, Port Vale, Oxford)

AFKABartram

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

MuttleyCAFC

I thought we were hasty sacking Holden. I don't think the solution is to sack Appleton. Especially as he hasn't had a window and his record isn't terrible. We do need to give managers a chance. 

Callumcafc

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

I'll try to counter each individually...

Just as there are players like May that Holden never got the luxury of having (as much) time with, there are also players like Rak-Sakyi that Appleton never got to work with. May actually got 2 in 5 under Holden playing in his "proper position" and is on 10 from 11 under Appleton playing anywhere but there.

Appleton has never been one to shout and holler on the touchline - that's not the type of manager we were getting. He gives the players his message pre-match, half-time, post-match and then during the week on the training pitch. There is really very little you can do to impact a game from the touchline, subs and small formation tweaks aside. Sir Alex Ferguson managed in a similar way but he never got pelters for it because his team was bloody good. It'd be good to see a study on the topic, but I'm willing to bet being animated on the touchline doesn't make your team any better. It's an easy thing to get on his back about when results don't go our way though and I understand that.

Re: players not improving, I think we've seen the best version of CBT we ever have under Appleton. May, despite being out of position now, is getting more goals than he did briefly under Holden and is on pace for more than he managed in a season at Cheltenham too. There are others like Jones and Tennai Watson who I think are improving every week too, but it's hard to know how much of that is down to Appleton versus them settling in to a new environment.

sam3110

Fuck all of them, to a man. 

Bring them in on Sunday, their normal day off, and make them watch the entire game back, but make them stand outside in the freezing cold whilst doing so, so they know how the fans felt. 

Disgraceful shower of absolute shit.

Can you fine the players that made it into the pitch 2 weeks wages each to cover the cost of the supporters? Today makes a case for doing so

Braziliance

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

Might sound bizarre, but I am not counting wins against Villas u21s, Cray Valley and Sutton. You can only beat what's in front of you, but that's such low level competition. Even Sutton didn't play their full strength side.

So league games only.

Appleton (12): 5 wins, 5 draws, 2 losses (Lincoln & Bolton)

Holden/Pearce (previous 12): 5 wins, 1 draw, 6 losses (Ipswich, Morecambe, Peterborough, Bristol R, Port Vale, Oxford)

I don't know what to say really mate, it's still too many draws? A 4 points difference, which highlights it's the wins that are far more important, not avoiding defeat. 

Either way I don't just put it down to the manager. He has made some questionable decisions today, like Tedic staying on the pitch so long, not starting Tennai, May on the wing, but I do think his hands are tied. 

I don't rate AMB, I rate one centre back at the club, one full back, a couple of midfielders, a winger and a striker. 6 players total. He has inherited a pants squad mostly. There's only so much of an impact a manager can have at this level

supaclive

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Appleton is a mediocre manager 
We have mediocre players 
MOST of our deadline day signings have turned out to be proper shite and two of them can't make tbe match day squad.
We are struggling to tread water.
The apologists are even starting to apologise for being apologists 
The trend, post manager bounce is not looking good

Playing May central
Seriously that's the EASIEST selection to make

#mental

Croydon

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Last paragraph is spot on. No one is improving, the defence is still poor and our set pieces are as ever.

No surprise we started scoring goals when 2 senior strikers and some of our more creative midfielders returned from injury. 

Athletico Charlton

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

Might sound bizarre, but I am not counting wins against Villas u21s, Cray Valley and Sutton. You can only beat what's in front of you, but that's such low level competition. Even Sutton didn't play their full strength side.

So league games only.

Appleton (12): 5 wins, 5 draws, 2 losses (Lincoln & Bolton)

Holden/Pearce (previous 12): 5 wins, 1 draw, 6 losses (Ipswich, Morecambe, Peterborough, Bristol R, Port Vale, Oxford)

So in the league Apples with the cavalry that arrived at the end of the window, with a fit Leaburn for almost all of his reign and with Aneke for 3-4 games has 1.666 points a game. 

Holden/Pearce without any of that had 1.333 points a game.

To me it just proves it is the squad, not the manager(s).

I don't think Holden or Appleton are amazing but neither are as poor as our results suggest.

Carter

Bowyer, Holden, Appleton to varying degrees have said they want more from the players. Loads of them can do cute Cruyff turns successfully from time to time and kill first touches well but how many genuinely show a desire to win the ball, to attack the ball, to be first to the ball, to dominate their opposite number. I'll say it until I'm out of breath all because someone stupidly asked me years ago how is it Jacko used to score from set pieces so often and would move himself accordingly. Its because he had a desire to attack the ball and was decisive in doing so. Heading the ball isn't difficult, its a skill a Sunday player can be professional level at, watch ball, keep eyes on ball, connect with ball an inch above eyebrows and look where you want it to go, yet so few of ours show that desire to go through the target and win the challenge in the first place. 

In terms of what we are doing or how we are trying to play, I haven't known that since Jackson's first spell as caretaker until the players decided they weren't going to do what they were told. Tayo Edun wants to push central which I don't mind as it creates a midfield overload which I love but then Asinwe stays wide all the time so negates Eduns pushing inside so I take from that Tayo is just doing what he wants as effective as I might find it, it doesn't make sense unless both full backs do it. 

The daft playing out short from goal kicks to any of our centre halves who cannot pass the ball for shit, I understand the point of it in trying to beat high presses and I trust John Stones and Harry Maguire to do it but I don't see the point in us trying it as it just sees us lose possession invariably. 

And another thing while I'm still seething, the gap in midfield today was chasmic. At one point I saw Dobson in the middle and 4 of our players in way advanced positions all totally unrealistic options. Gillingham and their walking pace midfield thought it was Christmas day, they just played up a couple of yards and isolated Dobson & May from the rest of the side 

AFKABartram

Callumcafc said:

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Appleton has never been one to shout and holler on the touchline - that's not the type of manager we were getting. He gives the players his message pre-match, half-time, post-match and then during the week on the training pitch. There is really very little you can do to impact a game from the touchline, subs and small formation tweaks aside. Sir Alex Ferguson managed in a similar way but he never got pelters for it because his team was bloody good. It'd be good to see a study on the topic, but I'm willing to bet being animated on the touchline doesn't make your team any better. It's an easy thing to get on his back about when results don't go our way though and I understand that.
.

Fair enough Callum, all I know is when you are losing again (fairly) to a team a league below you, getting outworked and outfought all over the pitch, I want my managers toes on the touchline screaming blue murder at them trying to trigger some desire or reaction. Might not have a huge impact but it sets the tone and makes it 100% clear to the players of the expectation. Saw this comment on a Gillingham forum which says it all for me.  

lonman

Bailey said:

JamesSeed said:

golfaddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Gillingham clearly wanted it more than us. Fought for every ball. Not too down. What we need to do is stay in range and then replace some of the weak players we have in January (I don'y just mean physically but mentally too). Also some young players needs loan. Ness is so mistake ridden it cannot be ignored.

Problem is I don't trust Scott to replace them with anyone better and for Appleton to then get them playing as a team. 

Christ, we’re not going to start calling for yet another manager sacking are we?? Is that what people want?

JamesSeed said:

golfaddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Gillingham clearly wanted it more than us. Fought for every ball. Not too down. What we need to do is stay in range and then replace some of the weak players we have in January (I don'y just mean physically but mentally too). Also some young players needs loan. Ness is so mistake ridden it cannot be ignored.

Problem is I don't trust Scott to replace them with anyone better and for Appleton to then get them playing as a team. 

Christ, we’re not going to start calling for yet another manager sacking are we?? Is that what people want?

A rhetorical question James as that's exactly what they are calling for. Three defeats in seventeen games doesn't matter to these knuckle draggers. They specialise in the negative and in Charlton Athletic the easiest thing to be is negative. It's the same old names, and the same old rhetoric, boring, tired rants.  

What a ridiculous statement. People have every right to vent their frustration if the performances are poor without being called 'knuckle draggers' My question to you, how many away games have you been to ? watching the shit that this team is serving up. The only 'knuckle dragger' here is you, my friend. 

agim

Lordflashheart said:

agim said:

I'm reasonably happy with Appleton in the sense where I don't know what else he can do with the players we have. Holden was making huge errors (CBT at wingback ! ) but with Holden bar the Tedic at right mid thing he's pretty much doing what most of us would do? 

We are a team of youth, free agents and loans plus one very decent centre forward and it shows. In the Bowyer promotion season  it clicked with Taylor up top, some ridiculous loan signings and youth like Aribo who were way better than League One. Football goes around in circles and we will have our time again, when that will be who knows but I honestly wouldn't care if I didn't see any of this lot in a charlton shirt again bar May. 

Oh yeah - he is such a genius he is playing Alfie on the ‘wing’ - ridiculous 

Today we have been schooled by fucking league 2 Gillingham - who are shite - what does that make us - double shite 

He’s had his new manager bounce - now reality bites us - appalling - no player comes out of today with any credit whatsoever 

I went to game today full of confidence - I’m now a balloon that was 60 ft tall, shrunk to the size of a peanut 

I have not been so annoyed about Charlton Athletic tonight since Dowie 😔

Never called him a genius I said he's using the players he's got. May is on the wing because the rest aren't good enough!

Athletico Charlton

Realise I have met the same number of Gills fans in my life as Cray Valley PM ones. Zero. 

Bedsaddick

One moment summed today up for me . 

In the first half Tyreese Campbell blatantly pulled out of a challenge with Johnny Williams outside our box  . A man who has legs are made of twiglets and in all his time at Charlton never tackled anyone . I know he’s young but if he continues to do that he can go back to the U23’s and continue to learn his trade .

801912601

Trying to be level headed after being at Gillingham in the cold to watch that embarassing performance.

We started slowly again and somehow got slower, couldn’t generate any impetus or decent periods of pressure, gave the ball away constantly, couldn’t string passes together and relied on lumping balls forward to areas where we had no players.
Edun at fault for both their goals as he was playing too deep and putting their runners onside.
Jones the only defender to come out of the game with any credit.
Appleton should have made changes earlier but of those that came on only Frazer and Mbick done better than those they replaced (Watson and Tedic).
Our corners are completely wasted - none of the short corners came off - who coaches these???
Other than Ness, Jones, May & Dobson our players were bottling out of tackles,  have lost confidence and have no idea how we should be playing as a team.
Gillingham players were up for it throughout and wanted it much more than ours.
Saw Fanny F walking out and her faced summed it up for me - absolutely furious and disgusted at such a gutless and embarrassing performance.

Lapslie looked the best player on the pitch and consistently outfought our midfield, congratulations to him as it’s good to see a Charlton fan doing well.

Near the end of the game I had a chat with my daughter and a dad and his young son standing in front of us about why we continue to support Charlton as todays performance was that bad. 

Outcome was that they are our local team, we’re not glory hunters, you can never get comfortable with what you are going to get from them but they are our team and will continue to do so.

Garrymanilow

supaclive said:

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Appleton is a mediocre manager 
We have mediocre players 
MOST of our deadline day signings have turned out to be proper shite and two of them can't make tbe match day squad.
We are struggling to tread water.
The apologists are even starting to apologise for being apologists 
The trend, post manager bounce is not looking good

Playing May central
Seriously that's the EASIEST selection to make

#mental

It's not though. Remember the last time May played as the central striker? Bolton, where we lost 2-0 and he barely got a sniff. In fact, if you look at May's last 10 games, the only two where he played as a centre forward he didn't score. Playing as a 10 or on the right though he scored 10 in 8. I don't love him out on the right but he's better there than as a central striker on his own. I liked him as a 10 and it's a bit frustrating that Appleton has switched to a 3 made up of midfielders who don't seem to be able to play together but having May as a 10 did tend to leave us a bit exposed as well.

The big problem is a lack of balance. We signed players for a 352 and signed a striker who plays best with a player alongside him. Either we stick two strikers up, but then don't have the balance to play a four behind them and will leave our terrible defence even more exposed, we stick May at 10 and leave ourselves a bit too shallow in the middle or we stick him on the right and ask him to drift in whenever he can and have the third midfielder provide a bit of width as he does it. None of it's ideal but the solution isn't just May central up front as he just gets eaten up by the opposition defenders and we suffer even more.

JamesSeed

.golfaddick said:

JamesSeed said:

golfaddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Gillingham clearly wanted it more than us. Fought for every ball. Not too down. What we need to do is stay in range and then replace some of the weak players we have in January (I don'y just mean physically but mentally too). Also some young players needs loan. Ness is so mistake ridden it cannot be ignored.

Problem is I don't trust Scott to replace them with anyone better and for Appleton to then get them playing as a team. 

Christ, we’re not going to start calling for yet another manager sacking are we?? Is that what people want?

Nope. Didnt say I wanted him sacked. Just that imo he's not good enough. But then most of the managers we've had over the past few years haven't been either. 

👍
All I’ll say in his defence is his points per game is decent, and he’s better than his three most recent predecessors. Which perhaps isn’t saying very much.
But it isn't his squad. Although what are the chances of us having a great window in January?

I’m not holding my breath. 

HandG

eastterrace6168 said:

What a pile of kak that must have been to have to sit/stand through, and respect to every single one of the 1600+ diehards who attended.
That's about it really, wasn't there, didn't watch on one of the streams available, and had to take my lead from Terry and the Comms team, which was painful enough, just wonder who will be held aloft as today's MOTM in the players points thread...we really are turning into the reality of the Jim Davidson "Charlton Nil" joke, and it ain't bloody funny...😫

Diehards?! It’s about half hour up the road and the ticket was £17! I was home by 6:30! 

It was awful but hardly the biggest stretch to attend.

supaclive

Garrymanilow said:

supaclive said:

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Appleton is a mediocre manager 
We have mediocre players 
MOST of our deadline day signings have turned out to be proper shite and two of them can't make tbe match day squad.
We are struggling to tread water.
The apologists are even starting to apologise for being apologists 
The trend, post manager bounce is not looking good

Playing May central
Seriously that's the EASIEST selection to make

#mental

It's not though. Remember the last time May played as the central striker? Bolton, where we lost 2-0 and he barely got a sniff. In fact, if you look at May's last 10 games, the only two where he played as a centre forward he didn't score. Playing as a 10 or on the right though he scored 10 in 8. I don't love him out on the right but he's better there than as a central striker on his own. I liked him as a 10 and it's a bit frustrating that Appleton has switched to a 3 made up of midfielders who don't seem to be able to play together but having May as a 10 did tend to leave us a bit exposed as well.

The big problem is a lack of balance. We signed players for a 352 and signed a striker who plays best with a player alongside him. Either we stick two strikers up, but then don't have the balance to play a four behind them and will leave our terrible defence even more exposed, we stick May at 10 and leave ourselves a bit too shallow in the middle or we stick him on the right and ask him to drift in whenever he can and have the third midfielder provide a bit of width as he does it. None of it's ideal but the solution isn't just May central up front as he just gets eaten up by the opposition defenders and we suffer even more.

May is a centre forward 
The best centre forward in the division
3 years running
The rest is conjecture 

JamesSeed

.golfaddick said:

jbcafc said:

Another season of terrible loan signings. Need to send them all back in January and try again.

One day people might start listening to me.

For those at the back or hard of hearing I'll say it again. 

You need to do your business early & do it well. Mostly all done by the time the pre-season games come around but certainly 95% done by the start of the season.  Loans are ok but they should be fillers & not mainstays of the team. 

I didn't go today but said on the preview thread that we would lose. Currently the  team is made up lightweight & no hopers. Only exceptions to that are May, Dobson & Jones......and CBT when he's arsed.  The rest are lower League one players. Never seen McGrandles have a good game, certainly not 90 mins of one. Fraser blows hot & cold & the less said about Tedic the better.

Agree with you, but don’t think you’re alone in calling for much better transfer windows, with business done earlier. In fact I’m sure everyone here thinks the same. 

JamesSeed

msomerton said:

JamesSeed said:

golfaddick said:

MuttleyCAFC said:

Gillingham clearly wanted it more than us. Fought for every ball. Not too down. What we need to do is stay in range and then replace some of the weak players we have in January (I don'y just mean physically but mentally too). Also some young players needs loan. Ness is so mistake ridden it cannot be ignored.

Problem is I don't trust Scott to replace them with anyone better and for Appleton to then get them playing as a team. 

Christ, we’re not going to start calling for yet another manager sacking are we?? Is that what people want?

We want another new manger bounce. It has been how we have survived in league 1.
Should do it 3 times a season and we may get the points for promotion.

You may have a point. 🙂

Callumcafc

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Appleton has never been one to shout and holler on the touchline - that's not the type of manager we were getting. He gives the players his message pre-match, half-time, post-match and then during the week on the training pitch. There is really very little you can do to impact a game from the touchline, subs and small formation tweaks aside. Sir Alex Ferguson managed in a similar way but he never got pelters for it because his team was bloody good. It'd be good to see a study on the topic, but I'm willing to bet being animated on the touchline doesn't make your team any better. It's an easy thing to get on his back about when results don't go our way though and I understand that.
.

Fair enough Callum, all I know is when you are losing again (fairly) to a team a league below you, getting outworked and outfought all over the pitch, I want my managers toes on the touchline screaming blue murder at them trying to trigger some desire or reaction. Might not have a huge impact but it sets the tone and makes it 100% clear to the players of the expectation. Saw this comment on a Gillingham forum which says it all for me.  

I don’t know about that, it’s just another fan opinion and I’ve already alluded to how fans pick on stuff like that when your team / the team you’re playing against isn’t performing.

We had Guy Luzon who was a bloody maniac on the touchline. Didn’t make him a good manager.

A big of geeing up might be good but it’s not his style, it will never be his style.

JamesSeed

killerandflash said:

Melrose said:

redbuttle said:

Melrose said:

roseandcrown said:

Awful no bottle or heart. 

Appleton knows a lot of these are not good enough.  I just hope he can get them out and replace with players he wants. 

Appleton needs replacing as well

He inherited this bunch of bottle jobs. How do you think he feels? . I actually think we know now after hearing his post match interview 

He has no idea of a compact competitive formation. He keeps playing May out wide on the right. He continues to play Tedic. He's another Adkins type, had some success in the past, but we'll past his sell by date. In his defence Scott's acquisitions have been appalling

He's hardly played Tedic, and has only played him because Miles and Chuks are injured.

It was perfectly fair to play Tedic today, to give him a chance to show he's not a waste of space, as for better or worse, he's the only target man striker we have. Tedic may be rubbish, but that is a failing of recruitment before Appleton arrived. 

And he’s recalled Kanu, presumably because he knows Tedic is a dud.

killerandflash

Carter said:

And another thing while I'm still seething, the gap in midfield today was chasmic. At one point I saw Dobson in the middle and 4 of our players in way advanced positions all totally unrealistic options. Gillingham and their walking pace midfield thought it was Christmas day, they just played up a couple of yards and isolated Dobson & May from the rest of the side 

To me that happens when we play 4231 with May as the No 10, as that leaves us with 4 attacking players, none of which are good defensively, and only 2 in midfield.

Gillingham, according to the BBC, also played 4231, but had Lapslie as one of the attacking midfielders, someone who's a box to box midfielder who loves a tackle.

Callumcafc

supaclive said:

Garrymanilow said:

supaclive said:

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Appleton is a mediocre manager 
We have mediocre players 
MOST of our deadline day signings have turned out to be proper shite and two of them can't make tbe match day squad.
We are struggling to tread water.
The apologists are even starting to apologise for being apologists 
The trend, post manager bounce is not looking good

Playing May central
Seriously that's the EASIEST selection to make

#mental

It's not though. Remember the last time May played as the central striker? Bolton, where we lost 2-0 and he barely got a sniff. In fact, if you look at May's last 10 games, the only two where he played as a centre forward he didn't score. Playing as a 10 or on the right though he scored 10 in 8. I don't love him out on the right but he's better there than as a central striker on his own. I liked him as a 10 and it's a bit frustrating that Appleton has switched to a 3 made up of midfielders who don't seem to be able to play together but having May as a 10 did tend to leave us a bit exposed as well.

The big problem is a lack of balance. We signed players for a 352 and signed a striker who plays best with a player alongside him. Either we stick two strikers up, but then don't have the balance to play a four behind them and will leave our terrible defence even more exposed, we stick May at 10 and leave ourselves a bit too shallow in the middle or we stick him on the right and ask him to drift in whenever he can and have the third midfielder provide a bit of width as he does it. None of it's ideal but the solution isn't just May central up front as he just gets eaten up by the opposition defenders and we suffer even more.

May is a centre forward 
The best centre forward in the division
3 years running
The rest is conjecture 

Is 2 goals from 6 games playing as a striker this season vs 10 goals from 10 games playing wide/no. 10 also conjecture? Those seem like cold hard numbers to me…

He was a very good centre forward at this level for two seasons at Cheltenham where teams left space in behind for May to run into and convert chances from. Alfie doesn’t get that same luxury playing for Charlton.

Instead, Appleton has given May a role that provides him with more touches of the ball and he can better influence how the team plays as a whole. As a bonus, May is in some of the best scoring form of his life.


Football on paper is a simple game, you play your scoring striker at the top of the pitch because he’s closer to the goal that way.

Reality is telling us that Alfie is actually getting more joy from playing deeper and can work in the pockets of space in front of a defence. He’s a very good player and he’s proving it by how he’s adapted his game to be more productive than ever when faced with new challenges.

supaclive

Callumcafc said:

supaclive said:

Garrymanilow said:

supaclive said:

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Appleton is a mediocre manager 
We have mediocre players 
MOST of our deadline day signings have turned out to be proper shite and two of them can't make tbe match day squad.
We are struggling to tread water.
The apologists are even starting to apologise for being apologists 
The trend, post manager bounce is not looking good

Playing May central
Seriously that's the EASIEST selection to make

#mental

It's not though. Remember the last time May played as the central striker? Bolton, where we lost 2-0 and he barely got a sniff. In fact, if you look at May's last 10 games, the only two where he played as a centre forward he didn't score. Playing as a 10 or on the right though he scored 10 in 8. I don't love him out on the right but he's better there than as a central striker on his own. I liked him as a 10 and it's a bit frustrating that Appleton has switched to a 3 made up of midfielders who don't seem to be able to play together but having May as a 10 did tend to leave us a bit exposed as well.

The big problem is a lack of balance. We signed players for a 352 and signed a striker who plays best with a player alongside him. Either we stick two strikers up, but then don't have the balance to play a four behind them and will leave our terrible defence even more exposed, we stick May at 10 and leave ourselves a bit too shallow in the middle or we stick him on the right and ask him to drift in whenever he can and have the third midfielder provide a bit of width as he does it. None of it's ideal but the solution isn't just May central up front as he just gets eaten up by the opposition defenders and we suffer even more.

May is a centre forward 
The best centre forward in the division
3 years running
The rest is conjecture 

Is 2 goals from 6 games playing as a striker this season vs 10 goals from 10 games playing wide/no. 10 also conjecture?

He was a very good centre forward at this level for two seasons at Cheltenham where teams left space in behind for May to run into and convert chances from. Alfie doesn’t get that same luxury playing for Charlton.

Instead, Appleton has given May a role that provides him with more touches of the ball and he can better influence how the team plays as a whole. As a bonus, May is in some of the best scoring form of his life.


Football on paper is a simple game, you play your scoring striker at the top of the pitch because he’s closer to the goal that way.

Reality is telling us that Alfie is actually getting more joy from playing deeper and can work in the pockets of space in front of a defence. He’s a very good player and he’s proving it by how he’s adapted his game to be more productive than ever when faced with new challenges.

It imbalances the rest of the team and we can't play him in a midfield 3 as the AM.

Two seasons versus 6 games is a little more of a fair amount of games in a settled side.

You can say what you want @Callumcafc but I doubt many managers in this division would play Alfie May anywhere but number 9.

Sorry.

Callumcafc

Athletico Charlton said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

Might sound bizarre, but I am not counting wins against Villas u21s, Cray Valley and Sutton. You can only beat what's in front of you, but that's such low level competition. Even Sutton didn't play their full strength side.

So league games only.

Appleton (12): 5 wins, 5 draws, 2 losses (Lincoln & Bolton)

Holden/Pearce (previous 12): 5 wins, 1 draw, 6 losses (Ipswich, Morecambe, Peterborough, Bristol R, Port Vale, Oxford)

So in the league Apples with the cavalry that arrived at the end of the window, with a fit Leaburn for almost all of his reign and with Aneke for 3-4 games has 1.666 points a game. 

Holden/Pearce without any of that had 1.333 points a game.

To me it just proves it is the squad, not the manager(s).

I don't think Holden or Appleton are amazing but neither are as poor as our results suggest.

In retrospect, I think cavalry is generous lol.

The midfield options have generally worked out well enough - would’ve been nice to get more out of Camara and Terry Taylor.

Up front, Tedic doesn’t appear to be the answer unfortunately but I do think we at least got the balance right there with him, Leaburn, Aneke, May and other wing options in an attacking sense.




I think the biggest miss of the summer though was right at the beginning of it, planning to replace only Ryan Inniss in the backline.

Ness desperately needs a loan now. He’s not showing enough to suggest he’s good enough currently, which is a big shame.

Thomas shouldn’t have been given a new deal. We should’ve been looking for a replacement here of the Jones calibre.

Hector I’m on the fence about. From what he’s shown this year, I don’t think he’s good enough to be starting regularly. Plenty good enough as the squad option (Thomas’ current role) but probably earning a decent wedge, more than would be reasonable for a back up.

Callumcafc

supaclive said:

Callumcafc said:

supaclive said:

Garrymanilow said:

supaclive said:

AFKABartram said:

Callumcafc said:

Braziliance said:

Callumcafc said:

The way people are talking about Appleton you’d think we’ve lost half of our last dozen odd games.

3 losses in 17…

9 losses from the 17 competitive games before he came in.

The power of Chuks Aneke mate. It's no coincidence that since Chuks got injured, we have only had two wins in the league.

He's the only player who has a bit of fight up top or physicality about him. Massive loss.

Also to say 'losses' implies drawing is a result. Some of these draws are poor

We can talk about wins if you want to.

8 wins in 17 under Appleton: Wycombe (H), Exeter (H), Villa U21 (H), Reading (H), Wigan (A), Cray Valley (A), Sutton (H), Cheltenham (H)

5 wins in the prior 17: Fleetwood (H), Orient (H), Port Vale (H), MK Dons (A), Burton (H)



Putting it all together:

Appleton: 8 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses

Holden/Pearce: 5 wins, 3 draws, 9 losses

It’s a limp compare though Callum as Appleton has had a number of players signed or fit (for part) that Holden / Pearce didn’t. 

I’ve not particularly taken to Appleton so far, not from a pre-conceived dislike as I’ll happily support him and can see as you’ve shown there have been wins. 

But because I’ve no clear idea of how he wants to play, he doesn’t seem to engage during games so no desire or urgency is being driven from the touchline, and we’ve the highest scoring player in the country now playing out wide and rarely getting in positions where he is at his best. Alfie is one of our performers yet we are not playing him to his strengths. 

My most concerning point, I’ve not seen a single player get better since he’s arrived, yet many are performing worse. That might be coincidental and not down to him, but I’ve no real faith in seeing an improvement over the next month. Boy I hope I’m wrong, last thing we need is to get to the January window and there is no point to it as we’ll be playing for nothing. As @Cabbles said, it’s last season all over again. 

Appleton is a mediocre manager 
We have mediocre players 
MOST of our deadline day signings have turned out to be proper shite and two of them can't make tbe match day squad.
We are struggling to tread water.
The apologists are even starting to apologise for being apologists 
The trend, post manager bounce is not looking good

Playing May central
Seriously that's the EASIEST selection to make

#mental

It's not though. Remember the last time May played as the central striker? Bolton, where we lost 2-0 and he barely got a sniff. In fact, if you look at May's last 10 games, the only two where he played as a centre forward he didn't score. Playing as a 10 or on the right though he scored 10 in 8. I don't love him out on the right but he's better there than as a central striker on his own. I liked him as a 10 and it's a bit frustrating that Appleton has switched to a 3 made up of midfielders who don't seem to be able to play together but having May as a 10 did tend to leave us a bit exposed as well.

The big problem is a lack of balance. We signed players for a 352 and signed a striker who plays best with a player alongside him. Either we stick two strikers up, but then don't have the balance to play a four behind them and will leave our terrible defence even more exposed, we stick May at 10 and leave ourselves a bit too shallow in the middle or we stick him on the right and ask him to drift in whenever he can and have the third midfielder provide a bit of width as he does it. None of it's ideal but the solution isn't just May central up front as he just gets eaten up by the opposition defenders and we suffer even more.

May is a centre forward 
The best centre forward in the division
3 years running
The rest is conjecture 

Is 2 goals from 6 games playing as a striker this season vs 10 goals from 10 games playing wide/no. 10 also conjecture?

He was a very good centre forward at this level for two seasons at Cheltenham where teams left space in behind for May to run into and convert chances from. Alfie doesn’t get that same luxury playing for Charlton.

Instead, Appleton has given May a role that provides him with more touches of the ball and he can better influence how the team plays as a whole. As a bonus, May is in some of the best scoring form of his life.


Football on paper is a simple game, you play your scoring striker at the top of the pitch because he’s closer to the goal that way.

Reality is telling us that Alfie is actually getting more joy from playing deeper and can work in the pockets of space in front of a defence. He’s a very good player and he’s proving it by how he’s adapted his game to be more productive than ever when faced with new challenges.

It imbalances the rest of the team and we can't play him in a midfield 3 as the AM.

Two seasons versus 6 games is a little more of a fair amount of games in a settled side.

You can say what you want @Callumcafc but I doubt many managers in this division would play Alfie May anywhere but number 9.

Sorry.

I just don’t understand it.

May’s been scoring a hatful and you see that that is the problem with our team? I’m baffled.

I don’t buy that it imbalances the team. We’ve done well in plenty of games with him there. It didn’t work out today. But that’s football.