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Micah Mbick
Comments
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I mostly agree with you. I don't think Leaburn is a 10 in any sense but so far this season he's showed strength and the ability to slip an onrushing player in on the turn. He's done that for TC and Grant a few times and it wouldn't be the worst thing for him to have a central player running off him too. Grant isn't doing that when he players centrally and in many ways it would be the perfect role for Kelman. The problem is you then have to sacrifice the hard running defensive work that the advanced midfielder in our formation needs to do. You'd have 4 out and out attacking players and we saw yesterday that just one player being out of position in our defensive 5 tears the whole thing apart so it opens us up to a lot of risk. Maybe Jones will try it again with Kelman and Leaburn together but after Bristol City I think he saw what that can do to a team that isn't prolific enough to offset the soft goals it keeps concedingDOUCHER said:
maybe in your world and maybe not in this system but Leaburn's game is entirely that of a number 10 back in the day - comes short, holds it up, acts as a foil for the main striker, can pick a pass - mark hughes, dennis bergkamp, eric cantona - all number 10's in the traditional sense, whether they wore 10 or notNabySarr said:Neither Leaburn or Mbick are number 10s and neither of them should be playing there1 -
My point is obvious you said he is likely to score a certain amount of goals, I disagree.Callumcafc said:
What is the point you are trying to make?Sword65pf said:
On target? He still isn’t scoring 5 in 5 no matter how many stats you throw at people .fenaddick said:
He's had 5 shots in the last 4 games with minutes totalling 112 minutesSword65pf said:
Not a chance he is scoring 5 in 5 in the championship. We have seen nothing to suggest it’s a possibility. Let him have 5 shots in 5 games 1st.Callumcafc said:
If we had the luxury of options that those two clubs have I am sure we would have loaned him to League One. But we don’t have those options, and Jones has clearly seen enough in training to think he can impact games in the Championship.Willo said:
So should be loaned out to league 1 or 2 and not in our first team in the championship?stoneroses19 said:
But, yet again, those two sides weren’t bidding £5m for Mbick to be in there starting 11. They’d have bought him and loaned to league 1/2.Ferryman said:
With clubs bidding £5M people are looking to see what that's all about.Crispywood said:Think it’s absolutely hilarious people judging Mbick now, when we have examples of this season in both Leaburn and TC who both have been in our top 5 performers this season what happens when you give youngsters time.Come off a long injury didn’t have a preseason and not even played his best position so he has more reason not to hit the ground running as welHe is young, he is going to be inconsistent, he is going to have games he struggles to get involved in. At same time, he will have decent moments through this season. We, as fans, should be patient.It’s a long season. Would not be shocked if he figures it out quickly - goes on to score 5 in 5 or something by mid December and then he’s gone in January and all those currently saying they don’t see it are wondering why we didn’t keep him.He’s had more attempts on goal than any other player in our team since the return from the international break so it can’t be that the games are passing him by…0 -
You’re not just disagreeing though, you’ve changed your own argument three times in a page and half. You quickly went from he won’t get 5 shots in 5 games, to 5 shots on target, to 0 goals. Others see something in Mbick, you don’t need to try so hard to tell everyone you don’t rate him.Sword65pf said:
My point is obvious you said he is likely to score a certain amount of goals, I disagree.Callumcafc said:
What is the point you are trying to make?Sword65pf said:
On target? He still isn’t scoring 5 in 5 no matter how many stats you throw at people .fenaddick said:
He's had 5 shots in the last 4 games with minutes totalling 112 minutesSword65pf said:
Not a chance he is scoring 5 in 5 in the championship. We have seen nothing to suggest it’s a possibility. Let him have 5 shots in 5 games 1st.Callumcafc said:
If we had the luxury of options that those two clubs have I am sure we would have loaned him to League One. But we don’t have those options, and Jones has clearly seen enough in training to think he can impact games in the Championship.Willo said:
So should be loaned out to league 1 or 2 and not in our first team in the championship?stoneroses19 said:
But, yet again, those two sides weren’t bidding £5m for Mbick to be in there starting 11. They’d have bought him and loaned to league 1/2.Ferryman said:
With clubs bidding £5M people are looking to see what that's all about.Crispywood said:Think it’s absolutely hilarious people judging Mbick now, when we have examples of this season in both Leaburn and TC who both have been in our top 5 performers this season what happens when you give youngsters time.Come off a long injury didn’t have a preseason and not even played his best position so he has more reason not to hit the ground running as welHe is young, he is going to be inconsistent, he is going to have games he struggles to get involved in. At same time, he will have decent moments through this season. We, as fans, should be patient.It’s a long season. Would not be shocked if he figures it out quickly - goes on to score 5 in 5 or something by mid December and then he’s gone in January and all those currently saying they don’t see it are wondering why we didn’t keep him.He’s had more attempts on goal than any other player in our team since the return from the international break so it can’t be that the games are passing him by…9 -
So what are you saying?, you would like me to say he’s great?,you are just piling on for the sake of it, I don’t have to justify why at the moment I don’t think he is at the level required, you have just read my posts and decided to tell me what I think. He’s done nothing of note and scored zero goals. I haven’t changed anything in my thoughts and I’m certainly not arguing, it’s my opinion you can like it or not,that’s not making things up it’s fact. If you want to just have a pop then you fill your boots. My original post was literally disagreeing🙄stoneroses19 said:
You’re not just disagreeing though, you’ve changed your own argument three times in a page and half. You quickly went from he won’t get 5 shots in 5 games, to 5 shots on target, to 0 goals. Others see something in Mbick, you don’t need to try so hard to tell everyone you don’t rate him.Sword65pf said:
My point is obvious you said he is likely to score a certain amount of goals, I disagree.Callumcafc said:
What is the point you are trying to make?Sword65pf said:
On target? He still isn’t scoring 5 in 5 no matter how many stats you throw at people .fenaddick said:
He's had 5 shots in the last 4 games with minutes totalling 112 minutesSword65pf said:
Not a chance he is scoring 5 in 5 in the championship. We have seen nothing to suggest it’s a possibility. Let him have 5 shots in 5 games 1st.Callumcafc said:
If we had the luxury of options that those two clubs have I am sure we would have loaned him to League One. But we don’t have those options, and Jones has clearly seen enough in training to think he can impact games in the Championship.Willo said:
So should be loaned out to league 1 or 2 and not in our first team in the championship?stoneroses19 said:
But, yet again, those two sides weren’t bidding £5m for Mbick to be in there starting 11. They’d have bought him and loaned to league 1/2.Ferryman said:
With clubs bidding £5M people are looking to see what that's all about.Crispywood said:Think it’s absolutely hilarious people judging Mbick now, when we have examples of this season in both Leaburn and TC who both have been in our top 5 performers this season what happens when you give youngsters time.Come off a long injury didn’t have a preseason and not even played his best position so he has more reason not to hit the ground running as welHe is young, he is going to be inconsistent, he is going to have games he struggles to get involved in. At same time, he will have decent moments through this season. We, as fans, should be patient.It’s a long season. Would not be shocked if he figures it out quickly - goes on to score 5 in 5 or something by mid December and then he’s gone in January and all those currently saying they don’t see it are wondering why we didn’t keep him.He’s had more attempts on goal than any other player in our team since the return from the international break so it can’t be that the games are passing him by…3 -
Crispywood said:
Brighton are the best run club in the country and their recruitment is an absolute joke, even Southampton’s youngster development and academy is brilliant. If both those think theirs a player in their more than happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. Have to at least give him the season before we can make evaluationsDennisBooth said:Would have liked him to have a League one loan. He is nowhere near a Championship striker. At the risk of getting stick, I don’t see what Brighton see in him. His physicality was a boon in the U21s but the Championship is full of big physical defenders. Not his fault that Jones played him as a number ten.There was a great story on the BBC website the other day about the three Bs, Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford, and why their recruitment is so successful. Not only do they use pretty sophisticated data models, but they also put a huge amount of effort into analysing players’ characters.
When they identify a talented youngster, they snap them up early and often send them straight out on loan to gain experience. If we'd sold Mbick in the summer, he'd probably be playing in League One or somewhere in Europe by now, getting valuable first-team football.
The problem is, we're so skint we can't afford to send a player of his talent out on loan. We need him around the first team now.
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No need to get your knickers in a twist.Sword65pf said:
So what are you saying?, you would like me to say he’s great?,you are just piling on for the sake of it, I don’t have to justify why at the moment I don’t think he is at the level required, you have just read my posts and decided to tell me what I think. He’s done nothing of note and scored zero goals. I haven’t changed anything in my thoughts and I’m certainly not arguing, it’s my opinion you can like it or not,that’s not making things up it’s fact. If you want to just have a pop then you fill your boots. My original post was literally disagreeing🙄stoneroses19 said:
You’re not just disagreeing though, you’ve changed your own argument three times in a page and half. You quickly went from he won’t get 5 shots in 5 games, to 5 shots on target, to 0 goals. Others see something in Mbick, you don’t need to try so hard to tell everyone you don’t rate him.Sword65pf said:
My point is obvious you said he is likely to score a certain amount of goals, I disagree.Callumcafc said:
What is the point you are trying to make?Sword65pf said:
On target? He still isn’t scoring 5 in 5 no matter how many stats you throw at people .fenaddick said:
He's had 5 shots in the last 4 games with minutes totalling 112 minutesSword65pf said:
Not a chance he is scoring 5 in 5 in the championship. We have seen nothing to suggest it’s a possibility. Let him have 5 shots in 5 games 1st.Callumcafc said:
If we had the luxury of options that those two clubs have I am sure we would have loaned him to League One. But we don’t have those options, and Jones has clearly seen enough in training to think he can impact games in the Championship.Willo said:
So should be loaned out to league 1 or 2 and not in our first team in the championship?stoneroses19 said:
But, yet again, those two sides weren’t bidding £5m for Mbick to be in there starting 11. They’d have bought him and loaned to league 1/2.Ferryman said:
With clubs bidding £5M people are looking to see what that's all about.Crispywood said:Think it’s absolutely hilarious people judging Mbick now, when we have examples of this season in both Leaburn and TC who both have been in our top 5 performers this season what happens when you give youngsters time.Come off a long injury didn’t have a preseason and not even played his best position so he has more reason not to hit the ground running as welHe is young, he is going to be inconsistent, he is going to have games he struggles to get involved in. At same time, he will have decent moments through this season. We, as fans, should be patient.It’s a long season. Would not be shocked if he figures it out quickly - goes on to score 5 in 5 or something by mid December and then he’s gone in January and all those currently saying they don’t see it are wondering why we didn’t keep him.He’s had more attempts on goal than any other player in our team since the return from the international break so it can’t be that the games are passing him by…2 -
I actually wear a hi-vis thong and it is completely untwisted, thanks for the input, it was really valuable to the discussion👍MickeyBennett said:
No need to get your knickers in a twist.Sword65pf said:
So what are you saying?, you would like me to say he’s great?,you are just piling on for the sake of it, I don’t have to justify why at the moment I don’t think he is at the level required, you have just read my posts and decided to tell me what I think. He’s done nothing of note and scored zero goals. I haven’t changed anything in my thoughts and I’m certainly not arguing, it’s my opinion you can like it or not,that’s not making things up it’s fact. If you want to just have a pop then you fill your boots. My original post was literally disagreeing🙄stoneroses19 said:
You’re not just disagreeing though, you’ve changed your own argument three times in a page and half. You quickly went from he won’t get 5 shots in 5 games, to 5 shots on target, to 0 goals. Others see something in Mbick, you don’t need to try so hard to tell everyone you don’t rate him.Sword65pf said:
My point is obvious you said he is likely to score a certain amount of goals, I disagree.Callumcafc said:
What is the point you are trying to make?Sword65pf said:
On target? He still isn’t scoring 5 in 5 no matter how many stats you throw at people .fenaddick said:
He's had 5 shots in the last 4 games with minutes totalling 112 minutesSword65pf said:
Not a chance he is scoring 5 in 5 in the championship. We have seen nothing to suggest it’s a possibility. Let him have 5 shots in 5 games 1st.Callumcafc said:
If we had the luxury of options that those two clubs have I am sure we would have loaned him to League One. But we don’t have those options, and Jones has clearly seen enough in training to think he can impact games in the Championship.Willo said:
So should be loaned out to league 1 or 2 and not in our first team in the championship?stoneroses19 said:
But, yet again, those two sides weren’t bidding £5m for Mbick to be in there starting 11. They’d have bought him and loaned to league 1/2.Ferryman said:
With clubs bidding £5M people are looking to see what that's all about.Crispywood said:Think it’s absolutely hilarious people judging Mbick now, when we have examples of this season in both Leaburn and TC who both have been in our top 5 performers this season what happens when you give youngsters time.Come off a long injury didn’t have a preseason and not even played his best position so he has more reason not to hit the ground running as welHe is young, he is going to be inconsistent, he is going to have games he struggles to get involved in. At same time, he will have decent moments through this season. We, as fans, should be patient.It’s a long season. Would not be shocked if he figures it out quickly - goes on to score 5 in 5 or something by mid December and then he’s gone in January and all those currently saying they don’t see it are wondering why we didn’t keep him.He’s had more attempts on goal than any other player in our team since the return from the international break so it can’t be that the games are passing him by…2 -
But that's no different to people quoting stats to prove they do rate him. Of these five shots how many were on target?stoneroses19 said:
You’re not just disagreeing though, you’ve changed your own argument three times in a page and half. You quickly went from he won’t get 5 shots in 5 games, to 5 shots on target, to 0 goals. Others see something in Mbick, you don’t need to try so hard to tell everyone you don’t rate him.Sword65pf said:
My point is obvious you said he is likely to score a certain amount of goals, I disagree.Callumcafc said:
What is the point you are trying to make?Sword65pf said:
On target? He still isn’t scoring 5 in 5 no matter how many stats you throw at people .fenaddick said:
He's had 5 shots in the last 4 games with minutes totalling 112 minutesSword65pf said:
Not a chance he is scoring 5 in 5 in the championship. We have seen nothing to suggest it’s a possibility. Let him have 5 shots in 5 games 1st.Callumcafc said:
If we had the luxury of options that those two clubs have I am sure we would have loaned him to League One. But we don’t have those options, and Jones has clearly seen enough in training to think he can impact games in the Championship.Willo said:
So should be loaned out to league 1 or 2 and not in our first team in the championship?stoneroses19 said:
But, yet again, those two sides weren’t bidding £5m for Mbick to be in there starting 11. They’d have bought him and loaned to league 1/2.Ferryman said:
With clubs bidding £5M people are looking to see what that's all about.Crispywood said:Think it’s absolutely hilarious people judging Mbick now, when we have examples of this season in both Leaburn and TC who both have been in our top 5 performers this season what happens when you give youngsters time.Come off a long injury didn’t have a preseason and not even played his best position so he has more reason not to hit the ground running as welHe is young, he is going to be inconsistent, he is going to have games he struggles to get involved in. At same time, he will have decent moments through this season. We, as fans, should be patient.It’s a long season. Would not be shocked if he figures it out quickly - goes on to score 5 in 5 or something by mid December and then he’s gone in January and all those currently saying they don’t see it are wondering why we didn’t keep him.He’s had more attempts on goal than any other player in our team since the return from the international break so it can’t be that the games are passing him by…0 -
In stats world a shot even if it doesn’t work the keeper and not on target is still a shot and means a player must be doing well🤷🏻♂️ my point is people are getting overexcited by him and I don’t see it yet. He may well prove people like myself wrong and that would be great, but I just say it as I see it, not asking to be agreed with.LargeAddick said:
But that's no different to people quoting stats to prove they do rate him. Of these five shots how many were on target?stoneroses19 said:
You’re not just disagreeing though, you’ve changed your own argument three times in a page and half. You quickly went from he won’t get 5 shots in 5 games, to 5 shots on target, to 0 goals. Others see something in Mbick, you don’t need to try so hard to tell everyone you don’t rate him.Sword65pf said:
My point is obvious you said he is likely to score a certain amount of goals, I disagree.Callumcafc said:
What is the point you are trying to make?Sword65pf said:
On target? He still isn’t scoring 5 in 5 no matter how many stats you throw at people .fenaddick said:
He's had 5 shots in the last 4 games with minutes totalling 112 minutesSword65pf said:
Not a chance he is scoring 5 in 5 in the championship. We have seen nothing to suggest it’s a possibility. Let him have 5 shots in 5 games 1st.Callumcafc said:
If we had the luxury of options that those two clubs have I am sure we would have loaned him to League One. But we don’t have those options, and Jones has clearly seen enough in training to think he can impact games in the Championship.Willo said:
So should be loaned out to league 1 or 2 and not in our first team in the championship?stoneroses19 said:
But, yet again, those two sides weren’t bidding £5m for Mbick to be in there starting 11. They’d have bought him and loaned to league 1/2.Ferryman said:
With clubs bidding £5M people are looking to see what that's all about.Crispywood said:Think it’s absolutely hilarious people judging Mbick now, when we have examples of this season in both Leaburn and TC who both have been in our top 5 performers this season what happens when you give youngsters time.Come off a long injury didn’t have a preseason and not even played his best position so he has more reason not to hit the ground running as welHe is young, he is going to be inconsistent, he is going to have games he struggles to get involved in. At same time, he will have decent moments through this season. We, as fans, should be patient.It’s a long season. Would not be shocked if he figures it out quickly - goes on to score 5 in 5 or something by mid December and then he’s gone in January and all those currently saying they don’t see it are wondering why we didn’t keep him.He’s had more attempts on goal than any other player in our team since the return from the international break so it can’t be that the games are passing him by…0 -
I don’t think that’s it. The problem is actually that if we said to Mbick we’re going to loan him out then he will immediately be pushing for a move so he can be paid a lot more money and still be loaned out. The only reason Mbick is still here is so he can play championship football, if we weren’t offering him that then he’d have left alreadySouthLincsAddick said:Crispywood said:
Brighton are the best run club in the country and their recruitment is an absolute joke, even Southampton’s youngster development and academy is brilliant. If both those think theirs a player in their more than happy to give them the benefit of the doubt. Have to at least give him the season before we can make evaluationsDennisBooth said:Would have liked him to have a League one loan. He is nowhere near a Championship striker. At the risk of getting stick, I don’t see what Brighton see in him. His physicality was a boon in the U21s but the Championship is full of big physical defenders. Not his fault that Jones played him as a number ten.There was a great story on the BBC website the other day about the three Bs, Brighton, Bournemouth and Brentford, and why their recruitment is so successful. Not only do they use pretty sophisticated data models, but they also put a huge amount of effort into analysing players’ characters.
When they identify a talented youngster, they snap them up early and often send them straight out on loan to gain experience. If we'd sold Mbick in the summer, he'd probably be playing in League One or somewhere in Europe by now, getting valuable first-team football.
The problem is, we're so skint we can't afford to send a player of his talent out on loan. We need him around the first team now.
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It’s an obvious gamble from us not taking that money.Brighton are able to do it because they have the money and more importantly the stability in the premier league league to take punts on players like Mbick. If it works they look like geniuses but if it doesn’t you don’t hear about it.We are not blessed with either money or stability to turn our noses down at 5+ million when we need serious reinvestment into our playing squad which for significant portions isn’t good enough.Not Mbicks fault that we turned that down but being able to use that money on 1-2 new players to improve the midfield or attack could have gone a long way into helping our chances this season.1
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The bid came in on deadline day this summer, so we wouldn’t have been able to use that money on new players to help us this season. It was 100% the right call to not take the moneyAberystwythAddick said:It’s an obvious gamble from us not taking that money.Brighton are able to do it because they have the money and more importantly the stability in the premier league league to take punts on players like Mbick. If it works they look like geniuses but if it doesn’t you don’t hear about it.We are not blessed with either money or stability to turn our noses down at 5+ million when we need serious reinvestment into our playing squad which for significant portions isn’t good enough.Not Mbicks fault that we turned that down but being able to use that money on 1-2 new players to improve the midfield or attack could have gone a long way into helping our chances this season.4 -
The counter argument to this is we turned down £5m in January, he got injured and then made a handful of appearances and then in the next window we got a £7m bid. So let's say we accepted the Brighton bid, we'd already have lost £2m. I'm sure there's a number where we'd sell Mbick but so far his value has increased and we've been proved correct in not accepting the Brighton bids at the very leastAberystwythAddick said:It’s an obvious gamble from us not taking that money.Brighton are able to do it because they have the money and more importantly the stability in the premier league league to take punts on players like Mbick. If it works they look like geniuses but if it doesn’t you don’t hear about it.We are not blessed with either money or stability to turn our noses down at 5+ million when we need serious reinvestment into our playing squad which for significant portions isn’t good enough.Not Mbicks fault that we turned that down but being able to use that money on 1-2 new players to improve the midfield or attack could have gone a long way into helping our chances this season.4 -
Fwiw I'd take 5 million and a sell on now2
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I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.21 -
Can’t disagree with most of what you have said here, absolutely he should be given time, personally I don’t think it should be in our 1st team YET, as fans we all like to see certain things in players and judge them by that, like myself at the moment I just don’t get all the fuss and don’t see him suddenly banging in goals as Callum suggested yesterday, I’d be over the moon to be wrong, but there is a thing on here where someone puts they’re head above the parapet and all hell let’s loose, none of us are right nor wrong all the time. I’m pretty sure a couple of you yesterday got what I was getting at but chose the pedantic (argument), I prefer to call it discussion as none of our opinions really overly matter on this type of discussion.fenaddick said:
I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.1 -
Pretty confident that Micah is going to make a lot of you feel very silly in a few years time.8
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Thats the point , in a few years and I wouldn’t be surprised, but also wouldn’t be silly because it wouldn’t be with us. For us it’s about the now, time will tell and hopefully he lives up to the hype.Diebythesword said:Pretty confident that Micah is going to make a lot of you feel very silly in a few years time.1 -
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I don't know, I feel like if you set out a statistical point and then get disproved then those showing you the statistic aren't being pedantic, just factual. But I take your point and I'm aware we all discuss differently. I'm a stats guy so I wouldn't make a comment like your 5 shots in 5 one (only using that as it was yesterday!!) without checking first but I get that not everyone will do that. We just discuss things differently and that's fineSword65pf said:
Can’t disagree with most of what you have said here, absolutely he should be given time, personally I don’t think it should be in our 1st team YET, as fans we all like to see certain things in players and judge them by that, like myself at the moment I just don’t get all the fuss and don’t see him suddenly banging in goals as Callum suggested yesterday, I’d be over the moon to be wrong, but there is a thing on here where someone puts they’re head above the parapet and all hell let’s loose, none of us are right nor wrong all the time. I’m pretty sure a couple of you yesterday got what I was getting at but chose the pedantic (argument), I prefer to call it discussion as none of our opinions really overly matter on this type of discussion.fenaddick said:
I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.3 -
Look at TC and Leaburn, a year learning the championship and they are now looking like completely different players. Yes Mbick might not be brilliant in his appearances this season, but when he plays next season after a year of learning we will reap the rewards of this time now. He’s clearly got potential so he’s worth being patient withSword65pf said:
Can’t disagree with most of what you have said here, absolutely he should be given time, personally I don’t think it should be in our 1st team YET, as fans we all like to see certain things in players and judge them by that, like myself at the moment I just don’t get all the fuss and don’t see him suddenly banging in goals as Callum suggested yesterday, I’d be over the moon to be wrong, but there is a thing on here where someone puts they’re head above the parapet and all hell let’s loose, none of us are right nor wrong all the time. I’m pretty sure a couple of you yesterday got what I was getting at but chose the pedantic (argument), I prefer to call it discussion as none of our opinions really overly matter on this type of discussion.fenaddick said:
I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.4 -
The 5 shots thing was more of a throw away comment, but was the main point taken up by you because it proved your point better, how many have been on target and worked the keeper??, don’t think we got an answer to that one😜fenaddick said:
I don't know, I feel like if you set out a statistical point and then get disproved then those showing you the statistic aren't being pedantic, just factual. But I take your point and I'm aware we all discuss differently. I'm a stats guy so I wouldn't make a comment like your 5 shots in 5 one (only using that as it was yesterday!!) without checking first but I get that not everyone will do that. We just discuss things differently and that's fineSword65pf said:
Can’t disagree with most of what you have said here, absolutely he should be given time, personally I don’t think it should be in our 1st team YET, as fans we all like to see certain things in players and judge them by that, like myself at the moment I just don’t get all the fuss and don’t see him suddenly banging in goals as Callum suggested yesterday, I’d be over the moon to be wrong, but there is a thing on here where someone puts they’re head above the parapet and all hell let’s loose, none of us are right nor wrong all the time. I’m pretty sure a couple of you yesterday got what I was getting at but chose the pedantic (argument), I prefer to call it discussion as none of our opinions really overly matter on this type of discussion.fenaddick said:
I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.
for the record I think stats in the main are bollox😂1 -
Great post.fenaddick said:
I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.1 -
But this is why I sometimes don't engage. We just view football through a different prism and that's fine but it makes discussions fairly pointless. You like to solely use your eyes and I like to use my eyes + stats. Those shots weren't on target but the broader picture is that in a team that doesn't create much he's getting in the positions to take shots in a team that isn't creative. That's before I get into his xG stats but they don't interest you so there's no point discussing them with youSword65pf said:
The 5 shots thing was more of a throw away comment, but was the main point taken up by you because it proved your point better, how many have been on target and worked the keeper??, don’t think we got an answer to that one😜fenaddick said:
I don't know, I feel like if you set out a statistical point and then get disproved then those showing you the statistic aren't being pedantic, just factual. But I take your point and I'm aware we all discuss differently. I'm a stats guy so I wouldn't make a comment like your 5 shots in 5 one (only using that as it was yesterday!!) without checking first but I get that not everyone will do that. We just discuss things differently and that's fineSword65pf said:
Can’t disagree with most of what you have said here, absolutely he should be given time, personally I don’t think it should be in our 1st team YET, as fans we all like to see certain things in players and judge them by that, like myself at the moment I just don’t get all the fuss and don’t see him suddenly banging in goals as Callum suggested yesterday, I’d be over the moon to be wrong, but there is a thing on here where someone puts they’re head above the parapet and all hell let’s loose, none of us are right nor wrong all the time. I’m pretty sure a couple of you yesterday got what I was getting at but chose the pedantic (argument), I prefer to call it discussion as none of our opinions really overly matter on this type of discussion.fenaddick said:
I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.
for the record I think stats in the main are bollox😂3 -
Mate Im not disagreeing with your way of thinking, but I don’t see his contribution is enough at the moment to be blooding him in, in the championship, by all means sporadic appearances now he can’t go on loan for the foreseeable, Miles and TC had played a lot of league 1 games and had better prep for the step up, Mbick hasn’t and I think it shows. If he lives up to the hype fair play but it won’t be us reaping any reward next season. Ultimately it’s on NJ, if he truly believes in him then who are any of us to think we know better but it’s a risk if we see a lot of him and it ends up to the detriment of our championship survival because it’s relentless and not the place to be experimenting with no obvious results from the player, which IMO we haven’t seen YET.NabySarr said:
Look at TC and Leaburn, a year learning the championship and they are now looking like completely different players. Yes Mbick might not be brilliant in his appearances this season, but when he plays next season after a year of learning we will reap the rewards of this time now. He’s clearly got potential so he’s worth being patient withSword65pf said:
Can’t disagree with most of what you have said here, absolutely he should be given time, personally I don’t think it should be in our 1st team YET, as fans we all like to see certain things in players and judge them by that, like myself at the moment I just don’t get all the fuss and don’t see him suddenly banging in goals as Callum suggested yesterday, I’d be over the moon to be wrong, but there is a thing on here where someone puts they’re head above the parapet and all hell let’s loose, none of us are right nor wrong all the time. I’m pretty sure a couple of you yesterday got what I was getting at but chose the pedantic (argument), I prefer to call it discussion as none of our opinions really overly matter on this type of discussion.fenaddick said:
I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.1 -
Stats can be very useful when trying to swing a discussion in a direction you want, he could have 50 shots every three games, at the end of the day if they aren’t on target it still ends up a big fat zero goals scored, and can’t hypothetically say well it led to a goal because the stat wouldn’t say that. In the fifty years I’ve watched football my eyes see exactly the same whether we have stats or not. Stats don’t turn an off target shot into a goal.fenaddick said:
But this is why I sometimes don't engage. We just view football through a different prism and that's fine but it makes discussions fairly pointless. You like to solely use your eyes and I like to use my eyes + stats. Those shots weren't on target but the broader picture is that in a team that doesn't create much he's getting in the positions to take shots in a team that isn't creative. That's before I get into his xG stats but they don't interest you so there's no point discussing them with youSword65pf said:
The 5 shots thing was more of a throw away comment, but was the main point taken up by you because it proved your point better, how many have been on target and worked the keeper??, don’t think we got an answer to that one😜fenaddick said:
I don't know, I feel like if you set out a statistical point and then get disproved then those showing you the statistic aren't being pedantic, just factual. But I take your point and I'm aware we all discuss differently. I'm a stats guy so I wouldn't make a comment like your 5 shots in 5 one (only using that as it was yesterday!!) without checking first but I get that not everyone will do that. We just discuss things differently and that's fineSword65pf said:
Can’t disagree with most of what you have said here, absolutely he should be given time, personally I don’t think it should be in our 1st team YET, as fans we all like to see certain things in players and judge them by that, like myself at the moment I just don’t get all the fuss and don’t see him suddenly banging in goals as Callum suggested yesterday, I’d be over the moon to be wrong, but there is a thing on here where someone puts they’re head above the parapet and all hell let’s loose, none of us are right nor wrong all the time. I’m pretty sure a couple of you yesterday got what I was getting at but chose the pedantic (argument), I prefer to call it discussion as none of our opinions really overly matter on this type of discussion.fenaddick said:
I just have this sense that people are writing Mbick off too soon. I'm perfectly willing to accept there's a chance he never makes it but I'm an optimist so I have faith that he will.Sword65pf said:
For the last 3 years we've had people saying they'd sell TC and then he starts the season well and all of a sudden everyone can see the talent. We've had people saying Leaburn would never make it and then he starts the season well, gets loads of praise but is now being criticised again. Last season loads of people were calling for Ibby Fullah to be our starting no 10 and now he can't get a start in L2. Loads of people thought Anderson wasn't good enough and I've seen a few people saying they wish he was in the squad now to replace Ouma/Skipp.
I feel like the conversation around our academy graduates is often far too extreme. They're either the next big thing who is going to change the world or a total flop. If TC and Leaburn have shown us anything, it's that we need to give them time. I trust the judgement of Brighton and Southampton's scouts more than anyone on here, me included. So let's give Mbick some time to actually bed in to the team and division before suggesting we should have sold him or questioning why he hasn't scored.
for the record I think stats in the main are bollox😂1 -
We don't know the structure of either of these offers though. Would either have been 5m up front? I'd very much doubt it.fenaddick said:
The counter argument to this is we turned down £5m in January, he got injured and then made a handful of appearances and then in the next window we got a £7m bid. So let's say we accepted the Brighton bid, we'd already have lost £2m. I'm sure there's a number where we'd sell Mbick but so far his value has increased and we've been proved correct in not accepting the Brighton bids at the very leastAberystwythAddick said:It’s an obvious gamble from us not taking that money.Brighton are able to do it because they have the money and more importantly the stability in the premier league league to take punts on players like Mbick. If it works they look like geniuses but if it doesn’t you don’t hear about it.We are not blessed with either money or stability to turn our noses down at 5+ million when we need serious reinvestment into our playing squad which for significant portions isn’t good enough.Not Mbicks fault that we turned that down but being able to use that money on 1-2 new players to improve the midfield or attack could have gone a long way into helping our chances this season.
FWIW I'd have taken one of the offers. I've not seen very much at all to suggest he's going to be a top player although I do so hope I'm wrong. Conversely I've seen much more from Mwamba and I think he could be. Ultimately though it's too early to really judge either but I just don't see it with Mbick like I have with Mwamba and with other of our youngsters who have gone on to have decent careers.0 -
The Southampton one was described as 5m + 2m so even if not up front that 5m is guaranteed incomeLargeAddick said:
We don't know the structure of either of these offers though. Would either have been 5m up front? I'd very much doubt it.fenaddick said:
The counter argument to this is we turned down £5m in January, he got injured and then made a handful of appearances and then in the next window we got a £7m bid. So let's say we accepted the Brighton bid, we'd already have lost £2m. I'm sure there's a number where we'd sell Mbick but so far his value has increased and we've been proved correct in not accepting the Brighton bids at the very leastAberystwythAddick said:It’s an obvious gamble from us not taking that money.Brighton are able to do it because they have the money and more importantly the stability in the premier league league to take punts on players like Mbick. If it works they look like geniuses but if it doesn’t you don’t hear about it.We are not blessed with either money or stability to turn our noses down at 5+ million when we need serious reinvestment into our playing squad which for significant portions isn’t good enough.Not Mbicks fault that we turned that down but being able to use that money on 1-2 new players to improve the midfield or attack could have gone a long way into helping our chances this season.
FWIW I'd have taken one of the offers. I've not seen very much at all to suggest he's going to be a top player although I do so hope I'm wrong. Conversely I've seen much more from Mwamba and I think he could be. Ultimately though it's too early to really judge either but I just don't see it with Mbick like I have with Mwamba and with other of our youngsters who have gone on to have decent careers.1 -
Even though I don't think he's set the world alight so far, I wholeheartedly agree with Fen and other commenters suggesting that in a few years, £5m will look a snip for Micah. What I keep coming back to with Mbick, is that you can see moments of real quality which our other forwards aren't capable of, his development at this stage is about displaying those moments with more consistency and having belief that he can play at this level. I think once his first goes in at champ level he could go on a real run6
