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POST MATCH THREAD : Leyton Orient Vs Charlton Athletic : Tuesday Boxing Day 2023 : KO 13:00
Comments
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Just for info and looking at how Apples speaks after a match you then compare it with Chris Wilder today and I think this sums up today what I want to hear occasionally.
Asked if his players were feeling sorry for themselves, Wilder said: "I don't give a monkey's how they feel. They are professional footballers."Everyone has to be accountable. These boys have got to have that attitude of being strong mentally."
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Why on earth would anyone start with Kanu out wide and C Campbell in the 10 role ?? That in itself should tell you everything you need to know10
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I remember when all the in the knows told us it looks like it could be different this time, and we should be excited 😂8
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A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possible18 -
No we don’t, we need top level League One / Championship level signings. We won’t get them, but that’s what we need.Valiantphil said:We need some Prem quality loanees (not Tedic).7 -
What upset me about today, and upset is the right word, is that I know we have injuries but Orient were a poor side. We started with the same side who were so disapointing against Burton, sorry to them but another poor side, and it was clear it wasn't working and nothing was done for much of the game to try to address it. Now I get the argument that making changes to something that isn't working may not actually work, Indeed it may not, but if it doesn't work at least you are trying to change it. I think this is poor from the management side and suspect there may be something going on that we don't know about. We are a very hard team to support unless you enjoy the constant kicks in the teeth.7
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Sadly it's the kids who's heads drop first as they look at the senior pro's and expect guidance when none is forthcoming. That said, there was only two kids Maynard Brewer and Kanu who started today and it was after substitutions were made, that we conceded. Appleton's frustration is not only with a lack of forwards and the side having very little backbone, it's the lack of quality or appetite of those on the bench. Tedic is really poor and Tyreece Campbell has the look of somebody who has been thrown into arena to grapple with LionsLincsaddick said:
Brown sums it up perfectly .. the manager and most of the 'players' are roving mercenaries 'playing' for the cash and certainly NOT for the shirt .. even the 'home grown' graduates to the first team don't seem to show the fervour for the club that I expect, or am I being too hard here .. whatever, the way out of the club's present limboland will not be easy, signing management and players with the necessary zeal will be expensive and will take a long time i m o .. still Luton managed it and so have countless other temporarily 'fallen giants'. We can only hope that our time will come againCallumcafc said:0 -
Burton was the final straw for me. Took no interest in the game today which is highly unusual for me.
And after reading all the comments, that sounds a really good move.
Thing I don't get with Appleton is his insistence on playing 4231 when we don't have the forwards to play it. You might get away with it with a fully fit Aneke (don't laugh) or possibly, Leaburn but playing the likes of May or Kanu up front by themselves is pure lunacy.
I know the "experts" say you can't play 2 up front in modern football but it's got to be worth a go. In fact, earlier in the season when May partnered Kanu up front we actually looked dangerous.
Appleton is an idiot to carry on playing a system that isn't designed for the players he has at his current disposal instead of trying something else.
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‘There may be something going on that we don’t know about.’MuttleyCAFC said:What upset me about today, and upset is the right word, is that I know we have injuries but Orient were a poor side, We started with the same side who were so disapointing against Burton and it was clear it wasn't working and nothing was done for much of the game to try to address it. Now I get the argument that making changes to something that isn't working may not actually work, Indeed it may not, but if it doesn't work at least you are trying to change it. I think this is poor from the management side and suspect there may be something going on that we don't know about. We are a very hard team to support unless you enjoy the constant kicks in the teeth.
I think you have nailed it, but our fan base is shrewd enough to figure it out eventually.0 -
Sadly this is how I feel. It may not be optimum but we are playing into the hands of poor sides by not playing two up front at this moment. We are finding it too hard to create chances and no matter the opponent, even Cray F*ing Paper Mills, can score against us. Today it wasn't working playing Kanu wide but we persisted with the tactic that was never going to work time and time again. He needed moving to C Campbell's position at least to try and pose a threat. There is no desire to play quick incisive balls except from Dobbo and Hector and when we clear a ball, even with loads of time, we are lazy and hopeful and often give it straight back. Balls into the box, again, even with bags of time are lazy and poor except the odd one or two from CBT. When we are in a position where a good touch is requied and we are in, you can guarantee there will be a poor one This is not good enough. It has to be said.Fortune 82nd Minute said:Burton was the final straw for me. Took no interest in the game today which is highly unusual for me.
And after reading all the comments, that sounds a really good move.
Thing I don't get with Appleton is his insistence on playing 4231 when we don't have the forwards to play it. You might get away with it with a fully fit Aneke (don't laugh) or possibly, Leaburn but playing the likes of May or Kanu up front by themselves is pure lunacy.
I know the "experts" say you can't play 2 up front in modern football but it's got to be worth a go. In fact, earlier in the season when May partnered Kanu up front we actually looked dangerous.
Appleton is an idiot to carry on playing a system that isn't designed for the players he has at his current disposal instead of trying something else.3 - Sponsored links:
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Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?Valley11 said:A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possible1 -
Now it is clear we can't make the play offs, there is little point sticking with Appleton and we need a manager to start building for next season in January. I was for keeping him and giving him a window to bridge the gap but the gap looks unbridgeable already. Do we want him managing us next season, if not the club has to act.
In Appleton's defence, I think he may realise we have to lose quite a few players, but maybe he needed to string them along through December and they are not playing for him as he hasn't. As we were behind the curve going into December this has been a disaster.2 -
Don't care which manager replaces Appleton. at least we might win a few with new manager bounce. Maybe have 4 managers a season.
Utter garbage. Hacked off with it all. For all the talk of the younger players not being good enough, it's doing them no favours being part of this team. Tyreece needs to be out on loan, so does Kanu.
I didn't boo. No complaints at those who did.1 -
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We have Hector, CBT and May that fit your description - but if you don’t want another Gallagher, Rak Saki, Beilik, Cullen or Maatsen then fair enough.SporadicAddick said:
No we don’t, we need top level League One / Championship level signings. We won’t get them, but that’s what we need.Valiantphil said:We need some Prem quality loanees (not Tedic).0 -
They won’t be sacking Appleton.2
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Scott first.LargeAddick said:Need to build a team for next season. Bring in players for next season. Bring in a new manager first though. Apples is clueless.4 -
Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are!redbuttle said:
Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?Valley11 said:A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possibleRegardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
We deserve and should be demanding more2 -
Name one...Valley11 said:
Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are!redbuttle said:
Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?Valley11 said:A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possibleRegardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
We deserve and should be demanding more0 -
What if it become clear next Christmas that we can't make the playoffs? Do we sack that manager without giving him a chance to bring a few of his own choice players in?MuttleyCAFC said:Now it is clear we can't make the play offs, there is little point sticking with Appleton and we need a manager to start building for next season in January. I was for keeping him and giving him a window to bridge the gap but the gap looks unbridgeable already. Do we want him managing us next season, if not the club has to act.
In Appleton's defence, I think he may realise we have to lose quite a few players, but maybe he needed to string them along through December and they are not playing for him as he hasn't. As we were behind the curve going into December this has been a disaster.
Again, not defending MA, but this idea we get someone else in to "start building", without giving MA a chance "to build" sounds ludicrous....3 - Sponsored links:
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I'd suggest the booing was mainly aimed at MA who was sheepishly following his players across to the away fans...ACTUALLY using his hands to barely clap the fans, which was 100% more than he was doing on the touchline for the past 100+ minutes. The man hardly moved a muscle during the entire match. At one point I thought he must be a cardboard cut out but then....wow ! He removed his appendages from his coat pockets ( I couldn't take my eyes off him !) but the moment was totally spoilt when he proceeded to take the top off his water bottle and take a slurp.AFKABartram said:Been a while since I can remember the fans giving so much clog to the players and manager at full time, but did feel a bit like the straw that broke the camels back
I agree with AFKA that today was indeed the last straw, for me and the majority of those around us, and I have finally given up on this manager to motivate, educate or indeed retain the respect of the players wearing the shirt today. Someone earlier on here mentioned tactics ...were there any ? If so, the players appeared to have dozed off during that part of his pre match instructions. After all, he's hardly a mesmerising individual.
It hurts to be so critical of a Charlton manager and to feel that he's reached the last chance saloon but I cannot envisage any significant improvement being made under his stewardship. Yes, they're not "his" players but that's invariably the case when taking on a new role & yes, the unbeaten run has been impressive, but too many draws have rather muddied the picture.
But now, it would appear that the lads, themselves by no meanss blameless, have little confidence in the way he expects them to play & as a result, utter confusion reigns. I remember one instance when 3 of our players contested the same ball ...pantomime season is indeed live & kicking ! We are on the whole a lightweight squad with minimal physicality on show and today yet another set of opposition players bullied us from the first to the final whistle. That old chestnut of "boys against men" is fast becoming the team's mantra, with Darren Pratley a perfect example of the latter this afternoon. And as pointed out recently, there are no leaders on the pitch for us. At one point, our Pocket Rocket was trying to show where his team mates should position themselves for an Orient free kick but was soon shaking his head when no-one appeared to take any notice.
Two final observations. AS, I believe, has indicated that it might take 3 transfer windows to reach a position where we're able to climb the league/s. This surely has to be the aim of a manager who it's believed will remain in post for the next season & a half , who will be given sufficient funds to bring in players to complement those retained & who will fill the roles required for a specific formation, and who has a track record of success in his profession. Maybe I'm deluded but I venture to state that a manager of that calibre could be worth his weight in gold & as such, worth paying what it takes. IF he is such a man, then he'll likely know who will be keen to play under his management by reputation and hopefully be able to attract them to our club. With hard work from all concerned, if the stars are aligned and with the total support of the faithful, maybe our famous old football club will rise from the ashes to which some are fearing may not be too far away....
And finally...Having pointed out how Dobbo failed to acknowledge those in the Curbs' Stand at the final whistle on Saturday, walking directly to the tunnel, his body language was similarly concerning today. Hector was the first player to applaud our fans for being there, but not far behind was our captain. He stayed facing us for what seemed like several minutes, staring at us returning his applause - quite a weird picture. I do have a vivid imagination but it doesn't take much to wonder whether this was his goodbye....
Trying hard to keep the faith but crying out for some indication that positive changes are not too far away.25 -
Because having a succession of loanees in critical positions has left us in such a strong position…Valiantphil said:
We have Hector, CBT and May that fit your description - but if you don’t want another Gallagher, Rak Saki, Beilik, Cullen or Maatsen then fair enough.SporadicAddick said:
No we don’t, we need top level League One / Championship level signings. We won’t get them, but that’s what we need.Valiantphil said:We need some Prem quality loanees (not Tedic).2 -
Michael Duff, did good jobs at Barnsley and Cheltenham, plays a style that will get the best out of May (he’s the manager that first got him scoring regularly)redbuttle said:
Name one...Valley11 said:
Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are!redbuttle said:
Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?Valley11 said:A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possibleRegardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
We deserve and should be demanding more
Picked the wrong championship job in Swansea so probably will have to drop back to league 1 for his next job1 -
Great Post but as far as I am concerned both Dobbo and CBT can leave tomorrow. One is no leader and the other couldn't care less.Fanny Fanackapan said:
I'd suggest the booing was mainly aimed at MA who was sheepishly following his players across to the away fans...ACTUALLY using his hands to barely clap the fans, which was 100% more than he was doing on the touchline for the past 100+ minutes. The man hardly moved a muscle during the entire match. At one point I thought he must be a cardboard cut out but then....wow ! He removed his appendages from his coat pockets ( I couldn't take my eyes off him !) but the moment was totally spoilt when he proceeded to take the top off his water bottle and take a slurp.AFKABartram said:Been a while since I can remember the fans giving so much clog to the players and manager at full time, but did feel a bit like the straw that broke the camels back
I agree with AFKA that today was indeed the last straw, for me and the majority of those around us, and I have finally given up on this manager to motivate, educate or indeed retain the respect of the players wearing the shirt today. Someone earlier on here mentioned tactics ...were there any ? If so, the players appeared to have dozed off during that part of his pre match instructions. After all, he's hardly a mesmerising individual.
It hurts to be so critical of a Charlton manager and to feel that he's reached the last chance saloon but I cannot envisage any significant improvement being made under his stewardship. Yes, they're not "his" players but that's invariably the case when taking on a new role & yes, the unbeaten run has been impressive, but too many draws have rather muddied the picture.
But now, it would appear that the lads, themselves by no meanss blameless, have little confidence in the way he expects them to play & as a result, utter confusion reigns. I remember one instance when 3 of our players contested the same ball ...pantomime season is indeed live & kicking ! We are on the whole a lightweight squad with minimal physicality on show and today yet another set of opposition players bullied us from the first to the final whistle. That old chestnut of "boys against men" is fast becoming the team's mantra, with Darren Pratley a perfect example of the latter this afternoon. And as pointed out recently, there are no leaders on the pitch for us. At one point, our Pocket Rocket was trying to show where his team mates should position themselves for an Orient free kick but was soon shaking his head when no-one appeared to take any notice.
Two final observations. AS, I believe, has indicated that it might take 3 transfer windows to reach a position where we're able to climb the league/s. This surely has to be the aim of a manager who it's believed will remain in post for the next season & a half , who will be given sufficient funds to bring in players to complement those retained & who will fill the roles required for a specific formation, and who has a track record of success in his profession. Maybe I'm deluded but I venture to state that a manager of that calibre could be worth his weight in gold & as such, worth paying what it takes. IF he is such a man, then he'll likely know who will be keen to play under his management by reputation and hopefully be able to attract them to our club. With hard work from all concerned, if the stars are aligned and with the total support of the faithful, maybe our famous old football club will rise from the ashes to which some are fearing may not be too far away....
And finally...Having pointed out how Dobbo failed to acknowledge those in the Curbs' Stand at the final whistle on Saturday, walking directly to the tunnel, his body language was similarly concerning today. Hector was the first player to applaud our fans for being there, but not far behind was our captain. He stayed facing us for what seemed like several minutes, staring at us returning his applause - quite a weird picture. I do have a vivid imagination but it doesn't take much to wonder whether this was his goodbye....
Trying hard to keep the faith but crying out for some indication that positive changes are not too far away.10 -
ok but why not just play him up top in a 2 with a physical strike partner rather than leaving us undermanned in midfield? Answer - because apples is wedded to 433 and is a prize chump. 352 will suit our best two players - may and dobbo - once cbt is sold but apples will persist with the 433 bollox so get rid now and stop wasting timeCallumcafc said:
For all intents and purposes, he was a second striker in that formation. It gave him the opportunity to arrive late in the box and finish off our moves. It was working really really well.DOUCHER said:
and even when chucks and leaburn were fit he was being played in the hole coz apples is wedded to 433DOUCHER said:
tedic?Callumcafc said:
1. Any decent manager would drop you and have you training with the reserves.golfaddick said:
If I was Alfie I'd be saying to Appleton....eastterrace6168 said:Wouldn't be at all surprised if Alfie put in a transfer request if nothing is forthcoming within 7 days of the window opening, he must be feeling "why did I agree to come here"...🤷♂️
"I'm playing up front. If you play me out wide I'm just going to move inside & play centre forward where I've played all my life. Its up to you boss but I know whose side the fans will be on".
2. May played up front today and was, again, ineffective there.
There is no big man available for Alfie to play off whether he’s in a two up top or playing the 10 in behind. That’s the biggest problem with Alfie right now.
I would be in favour of putting Alfie back in that role if we can get another striker in that fits that mold.2 -
It’s really nothing to do with the fans mindset - The club is in a downward spiral of one / two managers a season, evermore deluded and skinflint owners, with increasingly bizarre ideas re how to make money, fronted by a bunch of progressively more questionable individuals.Valley11 said:
Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are!redbuttle said:
Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?Valley11 said:A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possibleRegardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
We deserve and should be demanding more
We got Appleton because no one else would touch us and he has been resented as a result of collective disappointment and anger, as well as average and disappointing results, rightly or wrongly, since he started.
The bottom line is that the most recent crap owners haven’t delivered and it’s unlikely that they will. Can anyone honestly say this squad isn’t average and paper thin? Does anyone really expect these owners are going to spend what is required?I just wonder how long it will be before they realise they have been royally had by Charlie and bale…..3 -
I agree it does feel like we're in an endless cycle of needing to give managers a chance during a window before giving them the boot, but I just want to see a manger get the best out of the players they currently have before giving them a window. I have no idea who to bring instead, but I don't think it's Apples to take us forwardGribbo said:
What if it become clear next Christmas that we can't make the playoffs? Do we sack that manager without giving him a chance to bring a few of his own choice players in?MuttleyCAFC said:Now it is clear we can't make the play offs, there is little point sticking with Appleton and we need a manager to start building for next season in January. I was for keeping him and giving him a window to bridge the gap but the gap looks unbridgeable already. Do we want him managing us next season, if not the club has to act.
In Appleton's defence, I think he may realise we have to lose quite a few players, but maybe he needed to string them along through December and they are not playing for him as he hasn't. As we were behind the curve going into December this has been a disaster.
Again, not defending MA, but this idea we get someone else in to "start building", without giving MA a chance "to build" sounds ludicrous....0 -
Don’t be stupid. There will be loads as you well know. We could go the Ipswich or Portsmouth route and promote one of the countries brilliant u21 coaches.redbuttle said:
Name one...Valley11 said:
Plenty. We have become so weak in our mindset that some are now wondering if we’re a draw. Of course we are!redbuttle said:
Problem is this. What managers that could take us forward would want to join?Valley11 said:A result that has strengthened my view to get rid of Appleton. A bloody beige uninspiring appointment from the start, and that’s what he’s delivering.
I’ve never ever been one for chopping and changing managers, and the players are cowards, but this bloke is not going to take us forward. Change it now before he has a transfer window that’ll set us back even further…if that’s possibleRegardless, get rid of this bloke. The most un Charlton, uninspiring, middle of the road manager going
We deserve and should be demanding more
Or failing that go with someone who has already proved they’re an ambitious, progressive coach.
So name one…ok, Gary Rowett. Or another… Dave Challinor.Pick someone with ambition and drive. You know, ideals our club used to believe in, demand and expect.
This idea that we’re an unattractive prospect is bullshit.6 -
I think everything that needs to be said has been said. We have had some really bad years. I have supported Charlton since 1970. I can't ever remember feeling so ambivalent as I did today when Orient scored. I don't tend to overreact and always apply perspective but I feel so unconnected with this team and in particular with Michael Appleton. Depressing. We will see record low gates later this season.7
