I remember when test matches lasted 5 days. Good times.
Would have lasted a lot longer had we managed more than 379-20. As Nasser says, this has exposed our inability to play spin with both bat and ball. As it did in India when we lost 4-1. Atherton points out how Brook's series sums us up - 317 in one innings on a road as opposed to 56 runs in 4 innings on turning wickets.
Nasser rightly points out that our left field selections have been excellent but says that we have to be able to adapt to conditions when you can't just hit through the line of the ball and our spinners need to learn how to bowl on all tracks. Fortunately, we don't tour in Asia until February 2027 so have plenty of time to learn how to do so. If the ECB really want us to do that and not just concentrate everything with the Ashes in mind.
I think we know exactly where the ECBs priorities lie with some of the selections for home test series and Lions squads. They want a group of 90mph+ quicks that can go to Australia, not all break down with injuries and just barrage the Aussies with pace.
Also how much longer are they going to persist with trying to make Bashir a thing? There's a county spinner with 50 wickets this season but he's obviously not a golfer or tall.
What a shamles.Absolutely abysmal.Some serious discussions need to be made concerning Stokes place in the team.Ive said to friends and colleagues at work what does he bring to the team? He hardly bowls and his batting hasnt been great.When was his last century? If he cant bowl which in my opionion he should of after tea to try something different, but resisted..Any other captain would of tried something different but stubborn Stokes refused to. Why do the England batsmen.(yes BATSMAN) try to hit everyone ball for a run.? Play it simple like Saud Shakeel did.A little nudga here and a little nurdle there.No need to go gung ho every ball.Its a test match so you have plenty of time to make runs.
With the New Zealand test coming up(shame i couldnt make it this year); we need changes to try something different.Drop pope bat Smith at 3 and play an extra bowler as stubborn Stokes doesnt bowl much.Id like to see Carse Atkinson Woakes Stone Potts Hull and Sam Cook as the pace attack.Bashir and Ahmed as the spin option.Plesse no more Leach please.He is awful. I hope they pick themselves up for the New Zealand series.Poor decision making with both bat and ball cost us.Its a simple game is test cricket just play sensibly.as theres no rush and you have 5 days to play☹️
Stokes batting is a major concern but it’s his captaincy that really is in question especially in this test .. once again lost the plot at the end of Pakistan innings and let them take control of the game ..
There should definitely be a question about his place - getting low scores, and can barely bowl.
Play starts at 5.43 our time with coverage commencing at 5.30 for those insomniacs amongst us.
So glad I got up early for this… 🙈
Decided to just listen to TMS in Bed this morning and not watch the England batsmen emulate Anthony Joshua staggering about while the excellent spin twins reeked havoc.
Ben Stokes sounded punch drunk in his interview which is understandable after his struggles with the bat, becoming a part time bowler and allowing 70 singles contribute to 100 for Saud Shakeel. It must be difficult when you are used to being praised to being questioned about your decision making.
Always enjoy the moment of success: 823/7 in 1st test because Sajid and Noman were waiting to attack in 2nd and 3rd and they applied the Knock out blows.
I'm not trying to put any spin on this but it was all about Hair dryers and rollers in the 3rd test.
I think Baz ball has been a good thing overall but I wish we weren't so one dimensional about it. When it goes wrong it looks terrible but we know that and it's a price we're willing to pay for a big increase in the proportion of games that we win. We were a very poor test side before all this so I'll take the occasional hammering.
The problem is that other countries are starting to work out how to counter our tactics and because we only have one plan we're predictable. We need to be able to play the traditional way too to keep opponents guessing.
Plus, if we want to win in Asia we need to start playing first class cricket in high summer. But it seems the ECB are OK with losing these series.
I think Baz ball has been a good thing overall but I wish we weren't so one dimensional about it. When it goes wrong it looks terrible but we know that and it's a price we're willing to pay for a big increase in the proportion of games that we win. We were a very poor test side before all this so I'll take the occasional hammering.
The problem is that other countries are starting to work out how to counter our tactics and because we only have one plan we're predictable. We need to be able to play the traditional way too to keep opponents guessing.
Plus, if we want to win in Asia we need to start playing first class cricket in high summer. But it seems the ECB are OK with losing these series.
Absolutely agree about playing 1st class cricket in high summer and dump the 100!
Winning more games is great, but not so good is losing more games as well.
After the way we lost in India earlier this year, the baffling thing is why Pakistan produced such a road for the first test. Teams should know how weak we are on turning pitches.
I think we know exactly where the ECBs priorities lie with some of the selections for home test series and Lions squads. They want a group of 90mph+ quicks that can go to Australia, not all break down with injuries and just barrage the Aussies with pace.
Also how much longer are they going to persist with trying to make Bashir a thing? There's a county spinner with 50 wickets this season but he's obviously not a golfer or tall.
That is an interesting "throwaway" comment if only for the fact that there does appear to be an obsession with that sport within this regime and also that the rumour is that McCullum very much likes players who do play golf because he sees that as the "bond" off the field, even more so for batsmen because he believes that doing so helps to give them that explosive power.
McCullum is also a tournament ambassador for the New Zealand Open and a regular in the annual Pro-Am event. Key is infatuated with the sport too and as people know his best buddy and playing partner is Crawley's Dad. Crawley himself is a scratch golfer as is Cox. Brook's playing partner when with the Sunrisers Hyderabad was Brian Lara. Both Root and Pope opted to play in the BMW PGA Pro-Celebrity tournament rather than turn out for their respective counties in what were big games for them. Anderson, the fast bowling coach, missed the pre-tour of Pakistan and the first day of the opening Test in Pakistan to play in a pro-am tournament in Scotland. Bairstow broke his leg playing golf. Duckett and Stokes are avid golfers too. In fact, the only batsman who isn't one on this tour party is, I believe, Smith but then, at the relatively tender age of 24, will have other priorities in his life in the next few weeks than golf or cricket.
Where is the line between relaxation and preparation? Last year England prepared for the Ashes last year by playing golf as they have done before and during tours rather than playing matches. The last India tour was one such example when the squad stayed in Abu Dhabi and then flew back mid-series. And played golf. The result? A 4-1 thrashing.
Whilst nobody likes defeat I do wonder if this might be a positive thing for England in the long run. I think a lot of the camp had began to believe their own hype and whilst confidence is all well and good, it’s a fine line between becoming arrogant which I think a few of the players have become.
The first test was fantastic and can’t be taken away from England, but in some ways it was the absolutely ideal scenario as the pitch justified the tactic we seem to employ in every match of just smashing every ball. Nobody can argue that when the approach works it makes for great cricket and great entertainment.
The issue is, that seems to be our only tactic and when pitches don’t justify that approach like in the second and third test we just seem to employ it anyway and hope for the best. And when it doesn’t come off we just get the normal retort of ‘It’s how we play’ and the players just sneer at any questions as if nobody else is clever enough to understand the approach. I’ve said before that whilst the brand of cricket is great there is something quite dislikeable about the hubris and arrogance that seems to flow through the squad.
Supporting players through difficult patches of form is admirable, but there is more than a whiff of ‘jobs for the boys’ with the whole setup and there are a number of players on the county circuit who must wonder what they need to do (or perhaps who they need to know) to get a chance whilst others get called out with almost no first class experience whatsoever. It must be really demoralising for those plodding away on the first class circuit and getting good figures to be overlooked for those who have barely played a game of first class cricket. Perhaps they have more experience in golf.
I think we know exactly where the ECBs priorities lie with some of the selections for home test series and Lions squads. They want a group of 90mph+ quicks that can go to Australia, not all break down with injuries and just barrage the Aussies with pace.
Also how much longer are they going to persist with trying to make Bashir a thing? There's a county spinner with 50 wickets this season but he's obviously not a golfer or tall.
That is an interesting "throwaway" comment if only for the fact that there does appear to be an obsession with that sport within this regime and also that the rumour is that McCullum very much likes players who do play golf because he sees that as the "bond" off the field, even more so for batsmen because he believes that doing so helps to give them that explosive power.
McCullum is also a tournament ambassador for the New Zealand Open and a regular in the annual Pro-Am event. Key is infatuated with the sport too and as people know his best buddy and playing partner is Crawley's Dad. Crawley himself is a scratch golfer as is Cox. Brook's playing partner when with the Sunrisers Hyderabad was Brian Lara. Both Root and Pope opted to play in the BMW PGA Pro-Celebrity tournament rather than turn out for their respective counties in what were big games for them. Anderson, the fast bowling coach, missed the pre-tour of Pakistan and the first day of the opening Test in Pakistan to play in a pro-am tournament in Scotland. Bairstow broke his leg playing golf. Duckett and Stokes are avid golfers too. In fact, the only batsman who isn't one on this tour party is, I believe, Smith but then, at the relatively tender age of 24, will have other priorities in his life in the next few weeks than golf or cricket.
Where is the line between relaxation and preparation? Last year England prepared for the Ashes last year by playing golf as they have done before and during tours rather than playing matches. The last India tour was one such example when the squad stayed in Abu Dhabi and then flew back mid-series. And played golf. The result? A 4-1 thrashing.
That makes very interesting reading & didnt know any of that apart from Anderson playing in the Dunhill Championship earlier this month as I queried then why he wasn't out in Pakistan when the first Test began.
This is what many of us have been saying for the last couple of the years. Advocates of The Hundred, including the ECB who have their own financial interests in making it work, will, of course, argue what the former England wicket keeper, Jack Russell, has tweeted is absolute rubbish:
If you want to play well on turning pitches, batsman + bowlers, you need to play a lot on turning pitches it’s not rocket science if you waste August by not playing
@CountyChamp you’re only making life more difficult and asking to get stung on the backside! “Lady Cricket” knows!
Agree with those saying Crawley seems to be undropabble regardless of his scores but Down Under is probably the one place I would want him playing as should suit his game better than any other opening options we have.
Pope on the other hand should be gone but being Surrey won’t
The golf focus thing annoys me because it isn’t just England, it’s a cricket wide thing. What did Maxwell do the day before his monster innings at the ODI WC? He didn’t hit a single cricket ball and played a round of golf.
Maybe England have taken it too far, but the way the media discuss it is like England are the only team who like to play golf. In reality, they just talk about it more
The golf focus thing annoys me because it isn’t just England, it’s a cricket wide thing. What did Maxwell do the day before his monster innings at the ODI WC? He didn’t hit a single cricket ball and played a round of golf.
Maybe England have taken it too far, but the way the media discuss it is like England are the only team who like to play golf. In reality, they just talk about it more
I don’t think anyone has an issue with players liking a round of golf but England have brought this spotlight on themselves with the amount they go on about it.
Cox did an interview on Sky after being called up and was very clear the discussion with Mccullum focused on his golf game as opposed to anything cricket related. Cox is a very decent cricketer but there are many ahead of him in the first class game, now of course there are probably 10 players who all felt they should have got the call up instead of Cox whether justified or not but it would be very easy for them to wonder whether Cox’s golf game swung it for him.
Ben Foakes did an interview last year and when asked what he needed to do to keep his place, gave a reply suggesting he needed to focus on his golf because he didn’t play. Whether justified or not he now appears nowhere near the setup despite being arguably one of the best keepers around.
I watched quite a bit of the hundred on Sky and there were a number of interview with players and when asked what they needed to do to get considered for England more than one replied focus on the golf. Of course you could argue it is tongue in cheek but clearly it’s in the mind of more than one player otherwise they wouldn’t mention it.
The Anderson thing is also case in point. Could you imagine Man City’s first team coach missing a champions league match because he had a charity golf match? Anderson will of course say it was a prior commitment but at the highest level of the professional game surely it would have been advisable to make his excuses.
Never a problem when you are winning but IF the England players are on the golf course on Day 4 and 5 of this test match that was over in 3 days it's not a good look.
Comments
112 all out and a lead of 35
14-1 (2.1)
Pakistan finish on 37-1 off 3.1 overs to win by 9 wickets and the Series 2-1
Nasser rightly points out that our left field selections have been excellent but says that we have to be able to adapt to conditions when you can't just hit through the line of the ball and our spinners need to learn how to bowl on all tracks. Fortunately, we don't tour in Asia until February 2027 so have plenty of time to learn how to do so. If the ECB really want us to do that and not just concentrate everything with the Ashes in mind.
Also how much longer are they going to persist with trying to make Bashir a thing? There's a county spinner with 50 wickets this season but he's obviously not a golfer or tall.
If he cant bowl which in my opionion he should of after tea to try something different, but resisted..Any other captain would of tried something different but stubborn Stokes refused to.
Why do the England batsmen.(yes BATSMAN) try to hit everyone ball for a run.? Play it simple like Saud Shakeel did.A little nudga here and a little nurdle there.No need to go gung ho every ball.Its a test match so you have plenty of time to make runs.
With the New Zealand test coming up(shame i
couldnt make it this year); we need changes to try something different.Drop pope bat Smith at 3 and play an extra bowler as stubborn Stokes doesnt bowl much.Id like to see Carse Atkinson Woakes Stone Potts Hull and Sam Cook as the pace attack.Bashir and Ahmed as the spin option.Plesse no more Leach please.He is awful.
I hope they pick themselves up for the New Zealand series.Poor decision making with both bat and ball cost us.Its a simple game is test cricket just play sensibly.as theres no rush and you have 5 days to play☹️
Won't be though.
Decided to just listen to TMS in Bed this morning and not watch the England batsmen emulate Anthony Joshua staggering about while the excellent spin twins reeked havoc.
Ben Stokes sounded punch drunk in his interview which is understandable after his struggles with the bat, becoming a part time bowler and allowing 70 singles contribute to 100 for Saud Shakeel. It must be difficult when you are used to being praised to being questioned about your decision making.
Always enjoy the moment of success: 823/7 in 1st test because Sajid and Noman were waiting to attack in 2nd and 3rd and they applied the Knock out blows.
I'm not trying to put any spin on this but it was all about Hair dryers and rollers in the 3rd test.
A resurgence New Zealand awaits.
The problem is that other countries are starting to work out how to counter our tactics and because we only have one plan we're predictable. We need to be able to play the traditional way too to keep opponents guessing.
Plus, if we want to win in Asia we need to start playing first class cricket in high summer. But it seems the ECB are OK with losing these series.
After the way we lost in India earlier this year, the baffling thing is why Pakistan produced such a road for the first test. Teams should know how weak we are on turning pitches.
McCullum is also a tournament ambassador for the New Zealand Open and a regular in the annual Pro-Am event. Key is infatuated with the sport too and as people know his best buddy and playing partner is Crawley's Dad. Crawley himself is a scratch golfer as is Cox. Brook's playing partner when with the Sunrisers Hyderabad was Brian Lara. Both Root and Pope opted to play in the BMW PGA Pro-Celebrity tournament rather than turn out for their respective counties in what were big games for them. Anderson, the fast bowling coach, missed the pre-tour of Pakistan and the first day of the opening Test in Pakistan to play in a pro-am tournament in Scotland. Bairstow broke his leg playing golf. Duckett and Stokes are avid golfers too. In fact, the only batsman who isn't one on this tour party is, I believe, Smith but then, at the relatively tender age of 24, will have other priorities in his life in the next few weeks than golf or cricket.
Where is the line between relaxation and preparation? Last year England prepared for the Ashes last year by playing golf as they have done before and during tours rather than playing matches. The last India tour was one such example when the squad stayed in Abu Dhabi and then flew back mid-series. And played golf. The result? A 4-1 thrashing.
The issue is, that seems to be our only tactic and when pitches don’t justify that approach like in the second and third test we just seem to employ it anyway and hope for the best. And when it doesn’t come off we just get the normal retort of ‘It’s how we play’ and the players just sneer at any questions as if nobody else is clever enough to understand the approach. I’ve said before that whilst the brand of cricket is great there is something quite dislikeable about the hubris and arrogance that seems to flow through the squad.
If you want to play well on turning pitches, batsman + bowlers, you need to play a lot on turning pitches it’s not rocket science if you waste August by not playing
Maybe England have taken it too far, but the way the media discuss it is like England are the only team who like to play golf. In reality, they just talk about it more
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/oct/25/western-australia-lose-eight-wickets-for-one-run-in-stunning-batting-collapse?CMP=share_btn_url
Ben Foakes did an interview last year and when asked what he needed to do to keep his place, gave a reply suggesting he needed to focus on his golf because he didn’t play. Whether justified or not he now appears nowhere near the setup despite being arguably one of the best keepers around.
The Anderson thing is also case in point. Could you imagine Man City’s first team coach missing a champions league match because he had a charity golf match? Anderson will of course say it was a prior commitment but at the highest level of the professional game surely it would have been advisable to make his excuses.