The Barrister for the some of the SPMs actually called Alan Cook a liar.
"Subbies with their hand in the till to blame". It's not as if Mr Cook had assumed that SPM's were guilty until proven innocent was it. He even confirms in the email that the Post Office had prosecuted the wife of a friend of his!
If I were Alan Bates and going for private prosecutions I would be looking to CrowdFund it if legally possibly. With the surge of public sympathy at present I think he would raise the money required. Be nice to see some of 'the so called management' having their arses toasted in front of the fire if nothing else.
If I were Alan Bates and going for private prosecutions I would be looking to CrowdFund it if legally possibly. With the surge of public sympathy at present I think he would raise the money required. Be nice to see some of 'the so called management' having their arses toasted in front of the fire if nothing else.
I think he needs to wait to see if the CPS decide to prosecute for any offences - perjury or conspiracy to pervert the course of justice for example.
If they don't then a private prosecution is possible as long as it is for indictable offences i.e. those that are tried in a Crown Court. In those circumstances the judge can, and I suspect would, order all reasonable costs incurred by the bringer of the private prosecution to be met out of central funds.
There is also the possibility of civil actions for damages against the PO and/or Fujitsu if the compensation scheme (if it ever pays out) is deemed insufficient.
If I were Alan Bates and going for private prosecutions I would be looking to CrowdFund it if legally possibly. With the surge of public sympathy at present I think he would raise the money required. Be nice to see some of 'the so called management' having their arses toasted in front of the fire if nothing else.
I think he needs to wait to see if the CPS decide to prosecute for any offences - perjury or conspiracy to pervert the course of justice for example.
If they don't then a private prosecution is possible as long as it is for indictable offences i.e. those that are tried in a Crown Court. In those circumstances the judge can, and I suspect would, order all reasonable costs incurred by the bringer of the private prosecution to be met out of central funds.
There is also the possibility of civil actions for damages against the PO and/or Fujitsu if the compensation scheme (if it ever pays out) is deemed insufficient.
Yes I agree and I'm sure he will. The worrying part is that the threshold will be a lot higher than the Post Office ever had to deal with.
I listened to quite a bit of Rodric Williams' evidence at the Inquiry on Friday, he is still employed by the Post Office as a litigation lawyer. It was actually quite nice to see him squirming and looking very uncomfortable as he 'tried' to answered some of the questions. Hopefully he will have legal action taken against him.
Due to illness I have had the opportunity (?) to watch quite a few hours of the enquiry over the last week. Why do lawyers, like accountants, think they are able to do almost any business job. The lawyer today didn’t like the word “bug” because it sounded like a slang term. She ended up with using “exception” on the recommendation of an engineer/someone who was computer literate. Oh dear ! They were BUGS !!!
Apparently Paula Vennells asked her husband for a better word than bugs, that is how they came to be called exceptions.
Ridiculous really. Bugs are the norm not the exception. The very fact that they would try to modify the language like that speaks volumes. Anyway, if they wanted a new word, they could have stayed true to history and called them moths.
ITV saying that the docudrama has lost them in the region of £1mn. That show did so much to bring the matter to the fore but, of course, is not a good seller overseas. It would be a travesty if important programmes like this got lost through lack of funding.
Angela van den Bogerd,former People Services Director at Post Office Ltd and Programme Director for the Branch Support Programme is being questioned today. She is a major player in this scandal and her actions were featured in the ITV drama 'Mr Bates v The Post Office'. Expect to hear the words 'I don't recall' to be spoken a lot.
ITV saying that the docudrama has lost them in the region of £1mn. That show did so much to bring the matter to the fore but, of course, is not a good seller overseas. It would be a travesty if important programmes like this got lost through lack of funding.
A general problem with the Arts. Capitalism demands profit and gain if there is a spend, but sometimes the arts are about slow burn and nurture. David Cameron was happy to announce shifts in the school curriculum that marginalised arts subjects. Schools and such places are exactly the crucible for arts nurture, mistakes, success and failure and experimentation and challenge. Cameron said people shouldn’t study/practice stuff that ‘get you nowhere’ (not realising that the Arts earn more for the UK than manufacturing, and only slightly less than the financial industry) but repositioned education as utilitarian where it is all about supplying workers for jobs. If we are not careful the future will all be love islands and bubblegum pop, which are all very well, but stuff like Cathy Come Home, and Mr Bates v the Post Office will be very much marginalised. The debate about the TV licence funding the BBC is very much about this kind of thing.
ITV saying that the docudrama has lost them in the region of £1mn. That show did so much to bring the matter to the fore but, of course, is not a good seller overseas. It would be a travesty if important programmes like this got lost through lack of funding.
A general problem with the Arts. Capitalism demands profit and gain if there is a spend, but sometimes the arts are about slow burn and nurture. David Cameron was happy to announce shifts in the school curriculum that marginalised arts subjects. Schools and such places are exactly the crucible for arts nurture, mistakes, success and failure and experimentation and challenge. Cameron said people shouldn’t study/practice stuff that ‘get you nowhere’ (not realising that the Arts earn more for the UK than manufacturing, and only slightly less than the financial industry) but repositioned education as utilitarian where it is all about supplying workers for jobs. If we are not careful the future will all be love islands and bubblegum pop, which are all very well, but stuff like Cathy Come Home, and Mr Bates v the Post Office will be very much marginalised. The debate about the TV licence funding the BBC is very much about this kind of thing.
Aah, this would be the Cameron who studied philosophy, politics and economics at Oxford. Often abbreviated to PPE, but not to be confused with the PPE Covid scandals... Anyway enough about politics, I'll get banned.
ITV saying that the docudrama has lost them in the region of £1mn. That show did so much to bring the matter to the fore but, of course, is not a good seller overseas. It would be a travesty if important programmes like this got lost through lack of funding.
A general problem with the Arts. Capitalism demands profit and gain if there is a spend, but sometimes the arts are about slow burn and nurture. David Cameron was happy to announce shifts in the school curriculum that marginalised arts subjects. Schools and such places are exactly the crucible for arts nurture, mistakes, success and failure and experimentation and challenge. Cameron said people shouldn’t study/practice stuff that ‘get you nowhere’ (not realising that the Arts earn more for the UK than manufacturing, and only slightly less than the financial industry) but repositioned education as utilitarian where it is all about supplying workers for jobs. If we are not careful the future will all be love islands and bubblegum pop, which are all very well, but stuff like Cathy Come Home, and Mr Bates v the Post Office will be very much marginalised. The debate about the TV licence funding the BBC is very much about this kind of thing.
Is that accurate?
I would not have estimated that if asked given how broad Financial Services is.
ITV saying that the docudrama has lost them in the region of £1mn. That show did so much to bring the matter to the fore but, of course, is not a good seller overseas. It would be a travesty if important programmes like this got lost through lack of funding.
A general problem with the Arts. Capitalism demands profit and gain if there is a spend, but sometimes the arts are about slow burn and nurture. David Cameron was happy to announce shifts in the school curriculum that marginalised arts subjects. Schools and such places are exactly the crucible for arts nurture, mistakes, success and failure and experimentation and challenge. Cameron said people shouldn’t study/practice stuff that ‘get you nowhere’ (not realising that the Arts earn more for the UK than manufacturing, and only slightly less than the financial industry) but repositioned education as utilitarian where it is all about supplying workers for jobs. If we are not careful the future will all be love islands and bubblegum pop, which are all very well, but stuff like Cathy Come Home, and Mr Bates v the Post Office will be very much marginalised. The debate about the TV licence funding the BBC is very much about this kind of thing.
Is that accurate?
I would not have estimated that if asked given how broad Financial Services is.
Perhaps I am misreading from my phone but I can’t see any comparison to Financial Services in this article?
Interesting though, I agree , is how valuable the sector is.
I am clumsy about my overall point but heartened you recognise the value of the Arts sector. For a country with virtually no heavy or manufacturing industry that can compete, we are left with financial services, heritage industries, education and the arts (in their broadest forms) mainly. Perhaps the internet is also a ‘sector’ but I know nothing about that. My point is we may not be much good at growing coffee, but the UK remains very good still in the Arts, and it is a good earner.
The depressing bit is the attitude of some that the arts are a hobby enterprise, and scant effort need be made to nurture the sector, especially in schools. Perhaps because the return isn’t as direct as grow an Apple sell an Apple, but more complex and nuanced. And a lot of artistic development is also about challenging the established order of things which scares some people. Would anybody guess in advance that busker Ed Sheeran would become a world star, or the virtually self published first Harry Potter would be what it is now, let alone the great writing, film, TV and media the UK is capable of?
Ordering SPMs to be prosecuted and repay supposedly fraudulently gained funds when you knew the system was at fault isn't "perverting the course of justice", it is in itself fraud. Paula Jennings, members of Project Sparrow and those receiving bonuses over the case should be jailed for a long time on serious charges.
Perhaps I am misreading from my phone but I can’t see any comparison to Financial Services in this article?
Interesting though, I agree , is how valuable the sector is.
I am clumsy about my overall point but heartened you recognise the value of the Arts sector. For a country with virtually no heavy or manufacturing industry that can compete, we are left with financial services, heritage industries, education and the arts (in their broadest forms) mainly. Perhaps the internet is also a ‘sector’ but I know nothing about that. My point is we may not be much good at growing coffee, but the UK remains very good still in the Arts, and it is a good earner.
The depressing bit is the attitude of some that the arts are a hobby enterprise, and scant effort need be made to nurture the sector, especially in schools. Perhaps because the return isn’t as direct as grow an Apple sell an Apple, but more complex and nuanced. And a lot of artistic development is also about challenging the established order of things which scares some people. Would anybody guess in advance that busker Ed Sheeran would become a world star, or the virtually self published first Harry Potter would be what it is now, let alone the great writing, film, TV and media the UK is capable of?
Agreed. I guess that’s why at times governments have provisioned for grants / tax breaks in these related areas.
We are going way off piste here but it's a fallacy to say we have virtually no manufacturing industry. Last year, we moved from 9th to 8th in terms of manufacturing production. The sector employs 2.6mn people, contributes £224bn GVA and accounts for 49% of UK exports and 41% of R&D.
Amazing how so many of these highly paid executives know nothing about what goes on in their organisation, or is it that they are lying? Either way they must be brought to face justice.
Today marked Angela van den Bogerd's first time providing evidence about the faulty Horizon system in five years.
Here's a quick rundown of what happened on day one of her questioning:
The former top Post Office executive apologised to wrongly convicted sub-postmasters, saying she was "truly, truly sorry" for the "devastation" caused;
She said she "would never knowingly do anything wrong" and that she did the "best she could" within the parameters of her role, but said she wished she'd "got to the answer" of issues caused by Horizon more quickly;
Ms van den Bogerd said she did not recall receiving an email in December 2010 informing her that the Horizon system could be remotely accessed and accounts altered by developer Fujitsu;
This became a key point of questioning throughout the first half of the day - with the former boss also denying knowledge of further emails in 2011 and 2014 detailing the issue of remote access;
Probed on the fact that the official Post Office line was to deny remote access was possible, Ms van den Bogerd said she "must have missed" the email and insisted it was not a "cover up";
The ex-exec admitted she had been aware of "rumblings" of complaints over Horizon dating back as far as 2004, but said there was no system to investigate at the time;
She also rejected a suggestion that Post Office bosses had tried to "drip a little poison" into MPs' ears as part of a strategy to imply that sub-postmasters were tempted to steal from tills.
Comments
Yes I agree and I'm sure he will. The worrying part is that the threshold will be a lot higher than the Post Office ever had to deal with.
F*** that!
I listened to quite a bit of Rodric Williams' evidence at the Inquiry on Friday, he is still employed by the Post Office as a litigation lawyer. It was actually quite nice to see him squirming and looking very uncomfortable as he 'tried' to answered some of the questions. Hopefully he will have legal action taken against him.
That show did so much to bring the matter to the fore but, of course, is not a good seller overseas. It would be a travesty if important programmes like this got lost through lack of funding.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c84z0lk0019o
Capitalism demands profit and gain if there is a spend, but sometimes the arts are about slow burn and nurture.
David Cameron was happy to announce shifts in the school curriculum that marginalised arts subjects. Schools and such places are exactly the crucible for arts nurture, mistakes, success and failure and experimentation and challenge.
Cameron said people shouldn’t study/practice stuff that ‘get you nowhere’ (not realising that the Arts earn more for the UK than manufacturing, and only slightly less than the financial industry) but repositioned education as utilitarian where it is all about supplying workers for jobs.
If we are not careful the future will all be love islands and bubblegum pop, which are all very well, but stuff like Cathy Come Home, and Mr Bates v the Post Office will be very much marginalised.
The debate about the TV licence funding the BBC is very much about this kind of thing.
I would not have estimated that if asked given how broad Financial Services is.
https://artlyst.com/news/uk-creative-industries-out-perform-financial-services-in-714bn-bumper-year/
For a country with virtually no heavy or manufacturing industry that can compete, we are left with financial services, heritage industries, education and the arts (in their broadest forms) mainly. Perhaps the internet is also a ‘sector’ but I know nothing about that.
My point is we may not be much good at growing coffee, but the UK remains very good still in the Arts, and it is a good earner.
Would anybody guess in advance that busker Ed Sheeran would become a world star, or the virtually self published first Harry Potter would be what it is now, let alone the great writing, film, TV and media the UK is capable of?
Amazing how so many of these highly paid executives know nothing about what goes on in their organisation, or is it that they are lying? Either way they must be brought to face justice.
https://news.sky.com/story/post-office-inquiry-latest-apology-meaningless-without-accountability-former-sub-postmaster-says-as-ex-executive-faces-questions-13122120
What did we learn today?
Today marked Angela van den Bogerd's first time providing evidence about the faulty Horizon system in five years.
Here's a quick rundown of what happened on day one of her questioning: