I've counted Leaburn as elite but most have him in as a youngster. Not sure about Blackett but at a guess I think most promotion challenging teams would have him. Then there's may. After those three you got Dobson. then after him the rest of the squad plus the youngsters.
On pure ability I’d agree on Leaburn, any L1 club would take him, but out of 8 academy players you’d hope at least 1 or 2 are fairly regular starters in your team. You’d expect all 8 to be on relatively low wages too.
Dobson is top of the middle category for me. I know we all love him but the truth is he’s not elite. He’s exactly as the group says, consistent league one player.
I can't agree that Dobson isn't an "elite" League One player.
His game has developed well this season, and he is anything but the problem in why we've struggled. As recently as the Oxford defeat, he was the best player on the pitch. Its not his fault who he's playing alongside each week.
His distribution (forward passing/switching play) has improved massively. He's got a great engine, never stops working, good tackler/ball winner. He's improved in the transition, showing more composure on the ball and has been beating players in the middle of the park, which in turn gets us up the pitch. He's not the Semedo-type crab midfielder which he's been compared to before.
The only two areas I'd say he lacks are occasional positional awareness when he gets dragged towards the ball (not entirely his fault he's usually bailing out others), and his goal contribution/composure in the final third (despite a couple of very good goals this year in the cups)
If he added goals to his game, he'd be a very good Championship midfielder.
Using their definition of “Elite” I think Dobson, May and CBT are the only ones that fit. They are the only ones that have any realistic chance of making it at Championship level (and I’m pretty sceptical any of them could). They’re certainly the only ones the top teams in the division would want from our squad.
“Consistent” = Jones, Hector (just), AMB (just), L Watson, Campbell and possibly Isted.
I don’t think Aneke belongs in any of the categories.
I make it that we need five more “Elite” players, seven if/when CBT & Dobbo go.
On top of that we need two more “consistent players”.
Unsurprisingly for an extraordinarily mid-table team we are very low on elite players, and likely to lose two thirds of those we actually have. If this ownership are serious about their 8 + 8 + 8 strategy (which they obviously aren’t, but let’s play along) they will need to sign seven elite players over the next two windows for us to have a chance. Who thinks that’s going to happen?
I can't agree that Dobson isn't an "elite" League One player.
His game has developed well this season, and he is anything but the problem in why we've struggled. As recently as the Oxford defeat, he was the best player on the pitch. Its not his fault who he's playing alongside each week.
His distribution (forward passing/switching play) has improved massively. He's got a great engine, never stops working, good tackler/ball winner. He's improved in the transition, showing more composure on the ball and has been beating players in the middle of the park, which in turn gets us up the pitch. He's not the Semedo-type crab midfielder which he's been compared to before.
The only two areas I'd say he lacks are occasional positional awareness when he gets dragged towards the ball (not entirely his fault he's usually bailing out others), and his goal contribution/composure in the final third (despite a couple of very good goals this year in the cups)
If he added goals to his game, he'd be a very good Championship midfielder.
You absolutely make a good point and it’s kind of my go to “controversial” opinion when discussing Charlton.
I just can’t get see it, it’s not the tackling or effort, he’s elite in that respect. He just doesn’t do enough as a central midfielder for me, defensive midfielders at the top end of the league set the tempo of a game, they also pick out some lovely passes, he doesn’t do either of them. That’s not to say I’m not a fan, I just think we’ve fallen into the trap somewhat of worshipping a player for his footballing ability because he has the muddiest shorts at full time.
- if signed by a team currently challenging for automatics, does someone else get dropped so that our player would go straight into their team? OR
- if signed by a team in the Championship, could they hold their own as part of that squad?
IMO we have only two players definitely fit either of those tests: Alfie May and Corey Blackett-Taylor.
Dobson and Jones are the next closest candidates.
Think a fit Aneke covers both those categories, it's staying fit that's the issue
Yeah in my original post I put Aneke in "uncategorised" but if we're being truly honest with ourselves, he's a better fit for the solid category because he can't stay fit and available. No good being the best player in the league if you only play 10-20% of the games.
This isn't an exercise in trying to figure out how talented the footballers are at our club - they all have some level of ability as professionals. It's instead about building a squad that can get promoted and then survive at the next level (ie not come straight back down like we did in 2019-20). I don't think we can realistically say that Aneke should be a part of that.
And I would agree with that. He's a talent but He really can't be included in the Elite. Ask yourself how many other clubs are banging down the door to sign him. I'd say next to nobody purely on his fitness issues. A shame ,but true
If fit I think Miles would only be coming off the bench for a top 6 side learning his trade
I can't agree that Dobson isn't an "elite" League One player.
His game has developed well this season, and he is anything but the problem in why we've struggled. As recently as the Oxford defeat, he was the best player on the pitch. Its not his fault who he's playing alongside each week.
His distribution (forward passing/switching play) has improved massively. He's got a great engine, never stops working, good tackler/ball winner. He's improved in the transition, showing more composure on the ball and has been beating players in the middle of the park, which in turn gets us up the pitch. He's not the Semedo-type crab midfielder which he's been compared to before.
The only two areas I'd say he lacks are occasional positional awareness when he gets dragged towards the ball (not entirely his fault he's usually bailing out others), and his goal contribution/composure in the final third (despite a couple of very good goals this year in the cups)
If he added goals to his game, he'd be a very good Championship midfielder.
You absolutely make a good point and it’s kind of my go to “controversial” opinion when discussing Charlton.
I just can’t get see it, it’s not the tackling or effort, he’s elite in that respect. He just doesn’t do enough as a central midfielder for me, defensive midfielders at the top end of the league set the tempo of a game, they also pick out some lovely passes, he doesn’t do either of them. That’s not to say I’m not a fan, I just think we’ve fallen into the trap somewhat of worshipping a player for his footballing ability because he has the muddiest shorts at full time.
I love George for the effort and the tackles and, compared to most of the squad, he’s definitely much more deserving - if there was an elite B group I’d have him and Jones in it. But you have to be brutally honest in these assessments and I don’t think he quite makes the grade.
The reason I have him in “consistent” rather than elite is because: 1. I don’t think he walks into the Portsmouth or Bolton team - he’d likely be on the bench 2. Although his contract is running down, I don’t believe he’s a target for Championship clubs
The point of these elite/consistent categories (I think) is that on promotion, your elite group of L1 players will mostly become part of the consistent group of Championship players and the consistent group of L1 players from the promotion season are sold/released to make way for elite level Championship players. That’s the theory anyway.
I can't agree that Dobson isn't an "elite" League One player.
His game has developed well this season, and he is anything but the problem in why we've struggled. As recently as the Oxford defeat, he was the best player on the pitch. Its not his fault who he's playing alongside each week.
His distribution (forward passing/switching play) has improved massively. He's got a great engine, never stops working, good tackler/ball winner. He's improved in the transition, showing more composure on the ball and has been beating players in the middle of the park, which in turn gets us up the pitch. He's not the Semedo-type crab midfielder which he's been compared to before.
The only two areas I'd say he lacks are occasional positional awareness when he gets dragged towards the ball (not entirely his fault he's usually bailing out others), and his goal contribution/composure in the final third (despite a couple of very good goals this year in the cups)
If he added goals to his game, he'd be a very good Championship midfielder.
You absolutely make a good point and it’s kind of my go to “controversial” opinion when discussing Charlton.
I just can’t get see it, it’s not the tackling or effort, he’s elite in that respect. He just doesn’t do enough as a central midfielder for me, defensive midfielders at the top end of the league set the tempo of a game, they also pick out some lovely passes, he doesn’t do either of them. That’s not to say I’m not a fan, I just think we’ve fallen into the trap somewhat of worshipping a player for his footballing ability because he has the muddiest shorts at full time.
I love George for the effort and the tackles and, compared to most of the squad, he’s definitely much more deserving - if there was an elite B group I’d have him and Jones in it. But you have to be brutally honest in these assessments and I don’t think he quite makes the grade.
The reason I have him in “consistent” rather than elite is because: 1. I don’t think he walks into the Portsmouth or Bolton team - he’d likely be on the bench 2. Although his contract is running down, I don’t believe he’s a target for Championship clubs
The point of these elite/consistent categories (I think) is that on promotion, your elite group of L1 players will mostly become part of the consistent group of Championship players and the consistent group of L1 players from the promotion season are sold/released to make way for elite level Championship players. That’s the theory anyway.
Agreed.
If you want to make the debate even simpler you can just compare him to players in that position in league one. He’s nowhere near the Cullen or Bielik we had. That’s the levels to get out this hellhole league.
I can't agree that Dobson isn't an "elite" League One player.
His game has developed well this season, and he is anything but the problem in why we've struggled. As recently as the Oxford defeat, he was the best player on the pitch. Its not his fault who he's playing alongside each week.
His distribution (forward passing/switching play) has improved massively. He's got a great engine, never stops working, good tackler/ball winner. He's improved in the transition, showing more composure on the ball and has been beating players in the middle of the park, which in turn gets us up the pitch. He's not the Semedo-type crab midfielder which he's been compared to before.
The only two areas I'd say he lacks are occasional positional awareness when he gets dragged towards the ball (not entirely his fault he's usually bailing out others), and his goal contribution/composure in the final third (despite a couple of very good goals this year in the cups)
If he added goals to his game, he'd be a very good Championship midfielder.
You absolutely make a good point and it’s kind of my go to “controversial” opinion when discussing Charlton.
I just can’t get see it, it’s not the tackling or effort, he’s elite in that respect. He just doesn’t do enough as a central midfielder for me, defensive midfielders at the top end of the league set the tempo of a game, they also pick out some lovely passes, he doesn’t do either of them. That’s not to say I’m not a fan, I just think we’ve fallen into the trap somewhat of worshipping a player for his footballing ability because he has the muddiest shorts at full time.
I love George for the effort and the tackles and, compared to most of the squad, he’s definitely much more deserving - if there was an elite B group I’d have him and Jones in it. But you have to be brutally honest in these assessments and I don’t think he quite makes the grade.
The reason I have him in “consistent” rather than elite is because: 1. I don’t think he walks into the Portsmouth or Bolton team - he’d likely be on the bench 2. Although his contract is running down, I don’t believe he’s a target for Championship clubs
The point of these elite/consistent categories (I think) is that on promotion, your elite group of L1 players will mostly become part of the consistent group of Championship players and the consistent group of L1 players from the promotion season are sold/released to make way for elite level Championship players. That’s the theory anyway.
It’s a good point. Would any of our players really be in the “consistent” bracket at Championship level?
Even Alfie is in his 30’s and has spent the majority of his career at League 2 and below.
Thinking about players who might be here next year…
Top 8: regulars in a promotion side, can play in the Champ. I’ll say May, Coventry, REG, Small fall into this category. In May and Small cases, it’s based on stand out performances this season. In Coventry and REG cases, it’s because they’ve done it before elsewhere and are still young enough that we can expect them to grow and improve. That’s four of the required eight.
Middle 8: regulars at L1 level, are available and can play solid minutes when called upon, probably not good enough for the step up. I’ll say Isted, Thomas, Hector, Gillesphey, Jones, Edun, Tennai, Taylor. That’s eight of the required eight but it includes a keeper, four centre backs and two full backs - we likely need to shift at least three of those seven on and plug the gaps in this this category with midfielders/wingers instead.
Academy 8: self-explanatory. Mitchell, Asiimwe, Anderson, Kanu, Leaburn. That’s five here. A bit light here too, especially if Ness and Campbell walk and/or an academy product is sold.
Hard to categorise at this stage / might not even be here next year anyway… AMB, Ness, Campbell, Ramsay, McGrandles, Fraser, Aneke, Wickham, Lua Lua.
The only player I'd have as an elite 8 is May who will be here next season. Small is still a bit unproven despite how decent he's looked, REG isn't much better than any of our other centre backs and Coventry is going to need a big pre-season, as he hasn't been anywhere near consistent enough imho, but undoubtedly he has the talent if he can find his feet a bit more.
We need 7 'elite signings' next season.
We are so spoilt for choice for the middle 8 it's frightening.
Based on Current Squad (Not Keepers): Champ/Top End L1 8 May Dobson Hector L1 Reg 8 Edmonds Green Gillesphey L.Jones T.Thomas T.Watson Edun Small Coventry Academy 8 Mitchell Asiimwe Anderson Kanu Leaburn
Not including loanees. Other player thoughts:
Keepers Isted - Should be back up next season. Still trying to figure out how that shot got through him, it was a great dive and looked a certain save...
AMB - Not good enough, behind Isted.
Ward - behind AMB.
Defenders Ness - There's a player there, needs to show consistency - Loan out maybe?
Ramsey - Not seen enough to decide yet.
Nazir Bakrin - Possibly given a chance in final few games, at 21 he's at an age now where he really needs to be around the squad.
Midfielders Terry Taylor - Undecided on him. Hasn't shown enough, but also been injured. Probably fits the League 1 group.
Euan Williams - I think he could do with a shot next season, if not before the season is out. At 21 he's at an age now where he really needs to be around the squad.
Jason Adigun - Another who should really get a chance before the season is over.
Jeremy Santos - as per the other two. Also at 21 he's at an age now where he really needs to be around the squad.
Forwards Campbell - not good enough sadly at this time and isn't young enough for the Academy 8 as it stands. Needs a L2 loan, maybe in January he'll have the confidence to kick on.
Aneke - probably fits the middle 8 but his fitness record keeps him out for me.
Lua Lua - Shown NOTHING.
Wickham - Has looked okay if not a little blunt since joining. Good goal this week though - I think he should fit the L1 8.
Tolu Ladapo - Probably would have shown more than his namesake.
Patrick Casey - No harm in giving him a go during the final few surely? His 2 mins against Oxford isn't really a fair chance for the lad
A) players who are decent top end L1 but won't/unlikely to step up to Championship? So maybe like REG.
Or b) players who could be regular in any L1 club, even if it was a bottom end one like, say Port Vale? In which case the likes of Thomas.
For me, if we are really following this model it needs 8 elite, 8 top end L1 and 8 academy.
All PowerPoint nonsense of course but there is a huge difference between decent L1 squad players and lower end L1 squad players. With 8 of the latter we would struggle to get promoted no matter who our elite were.
So for me the answer is below with (?) against those we have not really seen enough of to judge.
First 8 = Elite May Dobson (99% gone) Wickham (?) Small (?)
Second 8 = better L1 players REG Coventry Gillesphy Taylor (?) Ramsey (?)
Academy Leaburn Kanu Anderson Campbell Mitchell Assimwe Ness Casey Mbick
Aneke we need to move on. He has played a bit recently but clearly at 50% or so without sprints which takes away much of his playing strength.
Both goalies are poor, keep one as back up only. It is a real shame both Kone and Beadle left without signing contracts as I suspect either would have made the first team this season. Edun also poor and could do with being moved on. LuaLua has shown nothing so far.
I would release Thomas, Hector and Bakinson and try to find buyers for Jones, Watson and Fraser.
Comments
His game has developed well this season, and he is anything but the problem in why we've struggled. As recently as the Oxford defeat, he was the best player on the pitch. Its not his fault who he's playing alongside each week.
His distribution (forward passing/switching play) has improved massively. He's got a great engine, never stops working, good tackler/ball winner. He's improved in the transition, showing more composure on the ball and has been beating players in the middle of the park, which in turn gets us up the pitch. He's not the Semedo-type crab midfielder which he's been compared to before.
The only two areas I'd say he lacks are occasional positional awareness when he gets dragged towards the ball (not entirely his fault he's usually bailing out others), and his goal contribution/composure in the final third (despite a couple of very good goals this year in the cups)
If he added goals to his game, he'd be a very good Championship midfielder.
I don’t think Aneke belongs in any of the categories.
I make it that we need five more “Elite” players, seven if/when CBT & Dobbo go.
A bit easier than 40 + 40 x 0 + 1 then.
Surely an oxymoron of a statement.
I just can’t get see it, it’s not the tackling or effort, he’s elite in that respect. He just doesn’t do enough as a central midfielder for me, defensive midfielders at the top end of the league set the tempo of a game, they also pick out some lovely passes, he doesn’t do either of them. That’s not to say I’m not a fan, I just think we’ve fallen into the trap somewhat of worshipping a player for his footballing ability because he has the muddiest shorts at full time.
1. I don’t think he walks into the Portsmouth or Bolton team - he’d likely be on the bench
2. Although his contract is running down, I don’t believe he’s a target for Championship clubs
The point of these elite/consistent categories (I think) is that on promotion, your elite group of L1 players will mostly become part of the consistent group of Championship players and the consistent group of L1 players from the promotion season are sold/released to make way for elite level Championship players. That’s the theory anyway.
If you want to make the debate even simpler you can just compare him to players in that position in league one. He’s nowhere near the Cullen or Bielik we had. That’s the levels to get out this hellhole league.
Even Alfie is in his 30’s and has spent the majority of his career at League 2 and below.
A blue print for successful football owners and their SLT
Not sure of the categories yet, but on early signs suggest we might be struggling!
I also have vague recollections of SB mentioning this kind of squad planning/building strategy on Charlton TV many months/years ago.
My Maths ain't great, but Initial signs show the numbers aren't to different from pre window. Id wager they are a little worse if anything?
2 is the league we want to be in, 4 is probably where we will be.
Middle 8: regulars at L1 level, are available and can play solid minutes when called upon, probably not good enough for the step up. I’ll say Isted, Thomas, Hector, Gillesphey, Jones, Edun, Tennai, Taylor. That’s eight of the required eight but it includes a keeper, four centre backs and two full backs - we likely need to shift at least three of those seven on and plug the gaps in this this category with midfielders/wingers instead.
Academy 8: self-explanatory. Mitchell, Asiimwe, Anderson, Kanu, Leaburn. That’s five here. A bit light here too, especially if Ness and Campbell walk and/or an academy product is sold.
We need 7 'elite signings' next season.
We are so spoilt for choice for the middle 8 it's frightening.
Champ/Top End L1 8
May
Dobson
Hector
L1 Reg 8
Edmonds Green
Gillesphey
L.Jones
T.Thomas
T.Watson
Edun
Small
Coventry
Academy 8
Mitchell
Asiimwe
Anderson
Kanu
Leaburn
Not including loanees. Other player thoughts:
Keepers
Isted - Should be back up next season. Still trying to figure out how that shot got through him, it was a great dive and looked a certain save...
AMB - Not good enough, behind Isted.
Ward - behind AMB.
Defenders
Ness - There's a player there, needs to show consistency - Loan out maybe?
Ramsey - Not seen enough to decide yet.
Nazir Bakrin - Possibly given a chance in final few games, at 21 he's at an age now where he really needs to be around the squad.
Midfielders
Terry Taylor - Undecided on him. Hasn't shown enough, but also been injured. Probably fits the League 1 group.
Euan Williams - I think he could do with a shot next season, if not before the season is out. At 21 he's at an age now where he really needs to be around the squad.
Jason Adigun - Another who should really get a chance before the season is over.
Jeremy Santos - as per the other two. Also at 21 he's at an age now where he really needs to be around the squad.
Forwards
Campbell - not good enough sadly at this time and isn't young enough for the Academy 8 as it stands. Needs a L2 loan, maybe in January he'll have the confidence to kick on.
Aneke - probably fits the middle 8 but his fitness record keeps him out for me.
Lua Lua - Shown NOTHING.
Wickham - Has looked okay if not a little blunt since joining. Good goal this week though - I think he should fit the L1 8.
Tolu Ladapo - Probably would have shown more than his namesake.
Patrick Casey - No harm in giving him a go during the final few surely? His 2 mins against Oxford isn't really a fair chance for the lad
A) players who are decent top end L1 but won't/unlikely to step up to Championship? So maybe like REG.
Or b) players who could be regular in any L1 club, even if it was a bottom end one like, say Port Vale? In which case the likes of Thomas.
For me, if we are really following this model it needs 8 elite, 8 top end L1 and 8 academy.
All PowerPoint nonsense of course but there is a huge difference between decent L1 squad players and lower end L1 squad players. With 8 of the latter we would struggle to get promoted no matter who our elite were.
So for me the answer is below with (?) against those we have not really seen enough of to judge.
First 8 = Elite
May
Dobson (99% gone)
Wickham (?)
Small (?)
Second 8 = better L1 players
REG
Coventry
Gillesphy
Taylor (?)
Ramsey (?)
Academy
Leaburn
Kanu
Anderson
Campbell
Mitchell
Assimwe
Ness
Casey
Mbick
Aneke we need to move on. He has played a bit recently but clearly at 50% or so without sprints which takes away much of his playing strength.
Both goalies are poor, keep one as back up only. It is a real shame both Kone and Beadle left without signing contracts as I suspect either would have made the first team this season. Edun also poor and could do with being moved on. LuaLua has shown nothing so far.
I would release Thomas, Hector and Bakinson and try to find buyers for Jones, Watson and Fraser.