There has been a very big and very necessary course correction and I for one have enjoyed watching it, so credit where it’s due. We are still left with a season that has been an unholy mess, however, and the architects of that are still very much in situ. I’d be very keen to limit their influence on next season, if I was a major shareholder picking up the bills for this.
Somebody will need to answer why we have 10+ players in a position that can accommodate 3 at most.
An overbloat that isn't too dissimilar to Notts Forest's squad situation that was created a couple of seasons ago.
Assuming we're talking centre-mid, I think we can only count 10+ if we include both the players we have in on loan, and the players contracted to us who are out on loan... but this doesn't seem particularly fair way of measuring squad size, since all will return to their parent clubs at the same time...
IMO 3 CMs starting means having 6 CMs in the squad, 3 to start, 3 to cover/rotate. Excluding the players who are out on loan we currently have 8, of which Taylor and Camara have both been long-term injured this season, justifying use of the loan market to fill their spot (e.g. Bakinson in for Camara).
Of course this has necessitated finding loans for Fraser, McGrandles and Henry, but I haven't heard anyone crying to have them back. The bigger challenge is moving them on in the summer, not for squad bloat, but because they probably aren't good enough.
I don't think there's any evidence that the owners aren't doing their bit now - scott's performance, yes, but as far as investment, we have a very bloated squad now that must be costing a lot - if all 6 of our strikers were fit, we'd have 3 of the best target men and 3 of the best finishers in the league - we also have an abundance of central defenders and midfielders - as NJ says, the squad needs trimming in places and and adding to in others and i have every confidence that he'll get that right in the summer and next season we will be at the top end. I think our job now is simply to get behind it, help fill the stadium and help roar the team on.
Doesn't have to be asked, it's what supporters do.
well there were a lot more doing it on saturday than there were when apples was manager but still plenty of empty seats
It’s quite bad tbf - completely understandable why he struggles to get a long term contract anywhere. Bouncing from club to club who need a short term solution. I think Chuks might end up going the same way once his deal here runs out.
Last season Wickham proved his fitness with a decent spell at Forest Green, followed by an unsuccessful period at Cardiff, where he still featured regularly.
Unlike Chuks, his major injury issues do seem to be in the past
I'm still puzzled as to why Wickham hasn't had a club all season.
OK, I get clubs could be a bit cautious of his injury record..... but he had a full playing season last year, so unless big wage demands were the issue, I would have thought he'd have got fixed up at some club by the end of the summer transfer window.
Right now he must be relieved to be playing again and have a job at last.
A number of us were saying the same about Hector when he joined, turned out he’d been looking after his father for a bit (or similar, can’t recall exactly) or like NJ himself maybe Wickham just wanted a few months out to spend time with family etc, maybe?
Good point, Large.
Sure, there may have been a situation dictated by his personal circumstances.
Bit late but I was really impressed by the performance. Felt Carlisle were very fortunate to be in the game at the end, and felt their chances came from nothing.
I was really impressed by a handful of players, Dobson actually put in a proper shift, some real gut busting runs into the box which weren't really picked up on and in general his passing was nice, as was Coventrys.
Unfortunately no vlog, was a proper solo dolo day and I was strapped for time. My usual parking spot alongside the industrial estate on the side of Primark, was rammo. Cheers Greenwich Council and your ridiculous parking decision 👍🏻
Made it to the ground with about ten mins to spare and decided to sack it off.
Truth be told, I really enjoyed just watching though. Caught up with a mate I hadn't seen in a while and in general just really enjoyed the game. I'd say we are safe as houses (although I felt that after we beat Derby away).
Look forward to my first visit to Fleetwood and hopefully see another away win on the road. Lovely stuff 👍🏻
👍 to both large and Sillybilly for amicable and respectful dialogue which resulted in an amendment on the score on the doors and no Macro car park dust up !
Now just like the managers who speaks to the media 10 minutes after the end of a match should there be a cooling off period ?
Should the players marks only start an hour after the end of a match because the blood is still boiling after yet another defensive mistakes by a different Cafc defender has gifted a goal to the opposition. Gunter, Inniss etc made a fair share of cock ups to go with Isted + co.
Also with Anderson he has struggled with his passing in recent games but his work rate has never slackened off so in my opinion is worth at least a 5 out of possession even with poor passing.
Players marks are very subjective and the truth is watching on a screen you can only see a part of the pitch so can't see all the runs and positions taken up and having spent many an away game behind the goal you miss so much on who has done the assist or got the final touch in a crowded goal mouth when the action is down the other end.
The Cheltenham goal was clear to see as both Watson and Coventry should've done better( both had strong games other than that) but the camera angle was hard to detect how much Isted could see of the ball and if he could do better ? Greg Stubley gave him the benefit of the doubt. For most watching on screen or at the match it looked a tad soft.
with the advent of CTV far more people give marks, pre CTV there might be a few as 10 marks for a midweek away game, now there are usually at least 50. The more marks the better the overall average whether from those at the game or watching on CTV. At away games the away end is usually behind a goal which makes it difficult to see what is occurring at the other end, offset this against the restricted view on CTV and they probably cancel each other out. At home games the marks vary for many reasons and I have never discerned a marked difference whether the marks are entered just after the final whistle or the next day. We all mark differently and some of the more unusual marks are counteracted by the total number entered, although there is the odd occasion when I do wonder if the marker was at the same game, but that is their view and therefore is as pertinent as any other. I have been doing the Statbank for over 10 years and think it is more representative now than it was when I started,I'm not sure about continuing with the manager's score as I only started that for Appleton as his appointment was met with many different views and I wanted those views quantified once he started, I don't think Jones is similar.
There has been a very big and very necessary course correction and I for one have enjoyed watching it, so credit where it’s due. We are still left with a season that has been an unholy mess, however, and the architects of that are still very much in situ. I’d be very keen to limit their influence on next season, if I was a major shareholder picking up the bills for this.
I genuinely take my hat off to you for those comments @Airman Brown it proves that we all in the end want the same thing and that is a club to be proud of ! When this mob came in we all looked to people like yourself with a lot more experience and resources to suss out the downsides and tbh at times I personally got worn down by all the constant negativity. You point about the big change in course is correct and imo it can only be coming from the owners. Forgetting the middle management for a second have the actual ownership started to give you more confidence that their intentions are good and are serious about progression for the club ?
Really late for a post match thread, aside from being over the moon with 3 points again, I was really interested in the subtle differences on show.
We were looking for more of a vertical build up via the DM, whether a pass in, DM turned and looked to progress or bouncing back and then out wide it was a clear difference from the CB to CB then a diagonal forward ball for all the games up to Derby.
This didn’t come off a few times and it does make things a bit nervy when it looks like players are “messing around with it at the back”.
I also noticed the diagonal forward ball has changed from a long ball from deep, into a pass from the inside channel to the opposite space just past the far post. This set up numerous passes back across the face of goal and I expect it will eventually set up a fair few easy tap ins.
Both are linked, the build up allows the outside CB’s to receive it higher up the pitch, REG can carry and Macca has that little cross-field ball down to a tee. I expect building up through the thirds is very much in NJ’s plans.
Admittedly I was away for the Northampton & Cheltenham games, couldn’t get to the ground so the difference could have been evident in both.
There has been a very big and very necessary course correction and I for one have enjoyed watching it, so credit where it’s due. We are still left with a season that has been an unholy mess, however, and the architects of that are still very much in situ. I’d be very keen to limit their influence on next season, if I was a major shareholder picking up the bills for this.
I genuinely take my hat off to you for those comments @Airman Brown it proves that we all in the end want the same thing and that is a club to be proud of ! When this mob came in we all looked to people like yourself with a lot more experience and resources to suss out the downsides and tbh at times I personally got worn down by all the constant negativity. You point about the big change in course is correct and imo it can only be coming from the owners. Forgetting the middle management for a second have the actual ownership started to give you more confidence that their intentions are good and are serious about progression for the club ?
I’ve not questioned the serious money. I don’t see what other motive they can have. What I have questioned is whether they were presented with an accurate picture of the club and its potential, and whether they have understood the level of investment required to get a return taking that into account. Methven’s public comment on this suggested not.
In my view this administration was set up as a vehicle for the benefit of people like Rodwell, Warrick, Methven, Scott and Lenegan, with Elliott clinging on to their coat tails. I don’t trust any of them, but if I’m wrong - or the main shareholders maintain and strengthen their grip - then so much the better. You certainly don’t need all these “executives” in L1.
But Nathan Jones is the right choice as manager for the situation we’re in and we can all see the team is better. Right now that’s all that matters.
The main reason we won on Saturday was because of the sharpness of two strikers in a partnership.
"The harder that Kanu and May work the luckier they get" ?
Yes, I pinched that from a Gary Player quote and Daniel who I had a one man campaign to not send him out on loan again after Southend has reaped the rewards of learning in the team and getting stronger while gradually improving and getting more confident with games.
We have two goalscorers who both are hard workers and run miles for the cause. The only prediction I got wrong about Kanu was he would play less games than Mason Burstow for Cafc before being sold so pleased that it's has taken longer for him to adjust to men's football.
Charlton weren't at their best after recent two away wins but in League 1 it's a given you must give 100% and that wasn't the case until Nathan Jones turned up.
There has been a very big and very necessary course correction and I for one have enjoyed watching it, so credit where it’s due. We are still left with a season that has been an unholy mess, however, and the architects of that are still very much in situ. I’d be very keen to limit their influence on next season, if I was a major shareholder picking up the bills for this.
I genuinely take my hat off to you for those comments @Airman Brown it proves that we all in the end want the same thing and that is a club to be proud of ! When this mob came in we all looked to people like yourself with a lot more experience and resources to suss out the downsides and tbh at times I personally got worn down by all the constant negativity. You point about the big change in course is correct and imo it can only be coming from the owners. Forgetting the middle management for a second have the actual ownership started to give you more confidence that their intentions are good and are serious about progression for the club ?
I’ve not questioned the serious money. I don’t see what other motive they can have. What I have questioned is whether they were presented with an accurate picture of the club and its potential, and whether they have understood the level of investment required to get a return taking that into account. Methven’s public comment on this suggested not.
In my view this administration was set up as a vehicle for the benefit of people like Rodwell, Warrick, Methven, Scott and Lenegan, with Elliott clinging on to their coat tails. I don’t trust any of them, but if I’m wrong - or the main shareholders maintain and strengthen their grip - then so much the better. You certainly don’t need all these “executives” in L1.
But Nathan Jones is the right choice as manager for the situation we’re in and we can all see the team is better. Right now that’s all that matters.
Im sure you are correct in terms of what I refer to as the "middle management" however if I were the owners regardless of how it was "pitched" they are now into a situation where they have invested pretty large sums already and I believe they will recognise that their only chance of seeing any return is to invest what is required to get us up the leagues and then if they want sell us and get their return. I think the club are certainly in a better place now than it has been for a significant number of years in terms of becoming the club we all love
The main reason we won on Saturday was because of the sharpness of two strikers in a partnership.
"The harder that Kanu and May work the luckier they get" ?
Yes, I pinched that from a Gary Player quote and Daniel who I had a one man campaign to not send him out on loan again after Southend has reaped the rewards of learning in the team and getting stronger while gradually improving and getting more confident with games.
We have two goalscorers who both are hard workers and run miles for the cause. The only prediction I got wrong about Kanu was he would play less games than Mason Burstow for Cafc before being sold so pleased that it's has taken longer for him to adjust to men's football.
Charlton weren't at their best after recent two away wins but in League 1 it's a given you must give 100% and that wasn't the case until Nathan Jones turned up.
The main reason we won on Saturday was because of the sharpness of two strikers in a partnership.
"The harder that Kanu and May work the luckier they get" ?
Yes, I pinched that from a Gary Player quote and Daniel who I had a one man campaign to not send him out on loan again after Southend has reaped the rewards of learning in the team and getting stronger while gradually improving and getting more confident with games.
We have two goalscorers who both are hard workers and run miles for the cause. The only prediction I got wrong about Kanu was he would play less games than Mason Burstow for Cafc before being sold so pleased that it's has taken longer for him to adjust to men's football.
Charlton weren't at their best after recent two away wins but in League 1 it's a given you must give 100% and that wasn't the case until Nathan Jones turned up.
😱
Let's hope Daniel and Miles can have a full successful 24/25 season for themselves and Cafc.
League matches only Mason Burstow 2 goals 16 matches Miles Leaburn 15 goals 48 matches Daniel Kanu. 6 goals. 35 matches Cafc 4 goals.6 matches Southend 10 goals 41 matches total
Daniel took longer to find the net in 1st team league matches compared to Mason and Miles. Kanu has made great progress in the last 7 games since NJ has been the boss. Burstow scored with his first touch in the 1st team which may have been against Crawley in a cup game. Miles has a 1 in 3 scoring record and if he could play as the number 9 with Daniel as his partner doing the hard yards with May playing 10. If all 3 play with AN other being the new Striker/forward and Chuks Aneke as the 5th striker hopefully playing 10 games from the bench in his final season at the Valley.
The sad truth is we can't give another contract to Chuks from June 2025 as struggling to play 10 cameo's a season from the bench really can't continue despite the success when Aneke plays.
Chucks is such a sad situation given what an effective player he can be. It also upsets me that it looks like Tyreece Campbell isn’t going to make it at Charlton. Given Jones sniffing around Lua Lua and Fosu you can guess he wants a pacy, wriggly, tricky, progressive winger type, and I believe he thought he saw that in Campbell but it hasn’t come to fruition (maybe it will, I doubt it now). Gutting really, because I have been a big advocate of Tyreece, if he leaves us I hope he can still have a good footballing career somewhere.
Vital win, but as others have said, our squad needs a major rebuild
Those not good enough or do not offer any value, in my view, must leave the club.
I know I am off topic, but watching today, I thought what a job NJ has to get us into the promotion push next year.
The problem will be Andy Scott, who is clueless on recruitment, given the chaotic nature of our squad.
NJ looks a proper manager, but the sorting out of the squad need to start in early May.
It is a massive challenge, but below is my take on it
Must keeps
- Small - EDG - ConCov - May - Leaburn - Kanu - Dobbo [if he plays like today and wants to stay] - Anderson [ he will get better]
Loans - please sort out the mess !
The rubbish loanees can all go back to their parent club The rubbish we have loaned out - that’s a huge issue/problem
Not good enough, so must go
Goalkeepers - Isted and AMB Thomas - get rid Edun - get rid Ladapo - get rid Bakinson - get rid Hector - get rid Ness - sell or loan out Chin - sell or loan out L Watson - get rid
The “never fit”, so must go
Taylor Ramsey Chuks Camara
Jury’s still out….a risk
Ghillesphey T Watson Jones Wickham [ his fitness will be the problem]
Youngsters not quite ready, so loan out?
Asiimwe - needs game time Campbell - need game time Henry - last chance saloon
Never let them wear the shirt again [if they are still on our books]
Payne Fraser Deejay Mcgrandles Kirk Fiorini
Nice one on padding out the "must go" category with loan players... they will go - like the loan players do every season.
edit to add (whilst I checked)
Payne, DJ contracts are up end of season (so essentially no longer CAFC players), Kirk doesn't have a contract with us, Fiorini is another loan so really you are saying Fraser and Mcgrandles.
You could have just said 'You don't know what you're talking about'.
Vital win, but as others have said, our squad needs a major rebuild
Those not good enough or do not offer any value, in my view, must leave the club.
I know I am off topic, but watching today, I thought what a job NJ has to get us into the promotion push next year.
The problem will be Andy Scott, who is clueless on recruitment, given the chaotic nature of our squad.
NJ looks a proper manager, but the sorting out of the squad need to start in early May.
It is a massive challenge, but below is my take on it
Must keeps
- Small - EDG - ConCov - May - Leaburn - Kanu - Dobbo [if he plays like today and wants to stay] - Anderson [ he will get better]
Loans - please sort out the mess !
The rubbish loanees can all go back to their parent club The rubbish we have loaned out - that’s a huge issue/problem
Not good enough, so must go
Goalkeepers - Isted and AMB Thomas - get rid Edun - get rid Ladapo - get rid Bakinson - get rid Hector - get rid Ness - sell or loan out Chin - sell or loan out L Watson - get rid
The “never fit”, so must go
Taylor Ramsey Chuks Camara
Jury’s still out….a risk
Ghillesphey T Watson Jones Wickham [ his fitness will be the problem]
Youngsters not quite ready, so loan out?
Asiimwe - needs game time Campbell - need game time Henry - last chance saloon
Never let them wear the shirt again [if they are still on our books]
Payne Fraser Deejay Mcgrandles Kirk Fiorini
Nice one on padding out the "must go" category with loan players... they will go - like the loan players do every season.
edit to add (whilst I checked)
Payne, DJ contracts are up end of season (so essentially no longer CAFC players), Kirk doesn't have a contract with us, Fiorini is another loan so really you are saying Fraser and Mcgrandles.
You could have just said 'You don't know what you're talking about'.
There has been a very big and very necessary course correction and I for one have enjoyed watching it, so credit where it’s due. We are still left with a season that has been an unholy mess, however, and the architects of that are still very much in situ. I’d be very keen to limit their influence on next season, if I was a major shareholder picking up the bills for this.
I genuinely take my hat off to you for those comments @Airman Brown it proves that we all in the end want the same thing and that is a club to be proud of ! When this mob came in we all looked to people like yourself with a lot more experience and resources to suss out the downsides and tbh at times I personally got worn down by all the constant negativity. You point about the big change in course is correct and imo it can only be coming from the owners. Forgetting the middle management for a second have the actual ownership started to give you more confidence that their intentions are good and are serious about progression for the club ?
I’ve not questioned the serious money. I don’t see what other motive they can have. What I have questioned is whether they were presented with an accurate picture of the club and its potential, and whether they have understood the level of investment required to get a return taking that into account. Methven’s public comment on this suggested not.
In my view this administration was set up as a vehicle for the benefit of people like Rodwell, Warrick, Methven, Scott and Lenegan, with Elliott clinging on to their coat tails. I don’t trust any of them, but if I’m wrong - or the main shareholders maintain and strengthen their grip - then so much the better. You certainly don’t need all these “executives” in L1.
But Nathan Jones is the right choice as manager for the situation we’re in and we can all see the team is better. Right now that’s all that matters.
Im sure you are correct in terms of what I refer to as the "middle management" however if I were the owners regardless of how it was "pitched" they are now into a situation where they have invested pretty large sums already and I believe they will recognise that their only chance of seeing any return is to invest what is required to get us up the leagues and then if they want sell us and get their return. I think the club are certainly in a better place now than it has been for a significant number of years in terms of becoming the club we all love
More evidence required. A month ago we were in danger of dropping into the bottom four in L1.
I don’t think the people you describe as middle management (but who are in fact the day to day decision makers) are any more than average at running a football club. They have brought in one or two people who are definitely below average at it and a bunch of consultants.
Like I said, I back Nathan Jones and I’ve enjoyed the last few weeks, but really you need to see a lot more sustained progress before being sure the club is on the right path. Many people also believed it was when Southall and Sandgaard turned up. That said I agree that the overall ownership has no obvious interest that doesn’t coincide with that of supporters. It depends what their appetite and focus is, because it’s going to cost them many tens of millions.
Vital win, but as others have said, our squad needs a major rebuild
Those not good enough or do not offer any value, in my view, must leave the club.
I know I am off topic, but watching today, I thought what a job NJ has to get us into the promotion push next year.
The problem will be Andy Scott, who is clueless on recruitment, given the chaotic nature of our squad.
NJ looks a proper manager, but the sorting out of the squad need to start in early May.
It is a massive challenge, but below is my take on it
Must keeps
- Small - EDG - ConCov - May - Leaburn - Kanu - Dobbo [if he plays like today and wants to stay] - Anderson [ he will get better]
Loans - please sort out the mess !
The rubbish loanees can all go back to their parent club The rubbish we have loaned out - that’s a huge issue/problem
Not good enough, so must go
Goalkeepers - Isted and AMB Thomas - get rid Edun - get rid Ladapo - get rid Bakinson - get rid Hector - get rid Ness - sell or loan out Chin - sell or loan out L Watson - get rid
The “never fit”, so must go
Taylor Ramsey Chuks Camara
Jury’s still out….a risk
Ghillesphey T Watson Jones Wickham [ his fitness will be the problem]
Youngsters not quite ready, so loan out?
Asiimwe - needs game time Campbell - need game time Henry - last chance saloon
Never let them wear the shirt again [if they are still on our books]
Payne Fraser Deejay Mcgrandles Kirk Fiorini
Nice one on padding out the "must go" category with loan players... they will go - like the loan players do every season.
edit to add (whilst I checked)
Payne, DJ contracts are up end of season (so essentially no longer CAFC players), Kirk doesn't have a contract with us, Fiorini is another loan so really you are saying Fraser and Mcgrandles.
You could have just said 'You don't know what you're talking about'.
Comments
IMO 3 CMs starting means having 6 CMs in the squad, 3 to start, 3 to cover/rotate. Excluding the players who are out on loan we currently have 8, of which Taylor and Camara have both been long-term injured this season, justifying use of the loan market to fill their spot (e.g. Bakinson in for Camara).
Of course this has necessitated finding loans for Fraser, McGrandles and Henry, but I haven't heard anyone crying to have them back. The bigger challenge is moving them on in the summer, not for squad bloat, but because they probably aren't good enough.
Sure, there may have been a situation dictated by his personal circumstances.
@LargeAddick
I was really impressed by a handful of players, Dobson actually put in a proper shift, some real gut busting runs into the box which weren't really picked up on and in general his passing was nice, as was Coventrys.
Unfortunately no vlog, was a proper solo dolo day and I was strapped for time. My usual parking spot alongside the industrial estate on the side of Primark, was rammo. Cheers Greenwich Council and your ridiculous parking decision 👍🏻
Made it to the ground with about ten mins to spare and decided to sack it off.
Truth be told, I really enjoyed just watching though. Caught up with a mate I hadn't seen in a while and in general just really enjoyed the game. I'd say we are safe as houses (although I felt that after we beat Derby away).
Look forward to my first visit to Fleetwood and hopefully see another away win on the road. Lovely stuff 👍🏻
*walks away extremely disappointed............
We all mark differently and some of the more unusual marks are counteracted by the total number entered, although there is the odd occasion when I do wonder if the marker was at the same game, but that is their view and therefore is as pertinent as any other.
I have been doing the Statbank for over 10 years and think it is more representative now than it was when I started,I'm not sure about continuing with the manager's score as I only started that for Appleton as his appointment was met with many different views and I wanted those views quantified once he started, I don't think Jones is similar.
"The harder that Kanu and May work the luckier they get" ?
Yes, I pinched that from a Gary Player quote and Daniel who I had a one man campaign to not send him out on loan again after Southend has reaped the rewards of learning in the team and getting stronger while gradually improving and getting more confident with games.
We have two goalscorers who both are hard workers and run miles for the cause.
The only prediction I got wrong about Kanu was he would play less games than Mason Burstow for Cafc before being sold so pleased that it's has taken longer for him to adjust to men's football.
Charlton weren't at their best after recent two away wins but in League 1 it's a given you must give 100% and that wasn't the case until Nathan Jones turned up.
Let's hope Daniel and Miles can have a full successful 24/25 season for themselves and Cafc.
League matches only
Mason Burstow 2 goals 16 matches
Miles Leaburn 15 goals 48 matches
Daniel Kanu. 6 goals. 35 matches Cafc
4 goals.6 matches Southend
10 goals 41 matches total
Daniel took longer to find the net in 1st team league matches compared to Mason and Miles. Kanu has made great progress in the last 7 games since NJ has been the boss.
Burstow scored with his first touch in the 1st team which may have been against Crawley in a cup game.
Miles has a 1 in 3 scoring record and if he could play as the number 9 with Daniel as his partner doing the hard yards with May playing 10. If all 3 play with AN other being the new Striker/forward and Chuks Aneke as the 5th striker hopefully playing 10 games from the bench in his final season at the Valley.
The sad truth is we can't give another contract to Chuks from June 2025 as struggling to play 10 cameo's a season from the bench really can't continue despite the success when Aneke plays.
It also upsets me that it looks like Tyreece Campbell isn’t going to make it at Charlton.
Given Jones sniffing around Lua Lua and Fosu you can guess he wants a pacy, wriggly, tricky, progressive winger type, and I believe he thought he saw that in Campbell but it hasn’t come to fruition (maybe it will, I doubt it now).
Gutting really, because I have been a big advocate of Tyreece, if he leaves us I hope he can still have a good footballing career somewhere.
Like I said, I back Nathan Jones and I’ve enjoyed the last few weeks, but really you need to see a lot more sustained progress before being sure the club is on the right path. Many people also believed it was when Southall and Sandgaard turned up. That said I agree that the overall ownership has no obvious interest that doesn’t coincide with that of supporters. It depends what their appetite and focus is, because it’s going to cost them many tens of millions.