Sorry, but a waste of time, people shouldn't even bother tuning in.
Ultimately the two most important things (promotion and ground ownership) are solved by money, and it appears we have owners that aren't willing to break the bank to get it done.
We won't improve our fan base, as there's too many London clubs better than us, we are currently the 3rd worst professional London football club out of 13 (I am not including the non league riff raff). Until that changes, we won't attract new fans unless they are generational fans.
I'd actually be happy for them to say at this point "we don't have the money to bring you back to the Premier league, we are aiming to keep you afloat until we can make you a more ambitious project to purchase for someone else and make some potential profit on you". Deadly serious as well. I don't believe for a second these owners care further than viewing us as a 3-5 year flip project.
You cannot and I can't emphasise this enough, cannot sustain in this league for a club of our size in London. We are being swallowed every year by more ambitious clubs around us. Brentford as an example are a much bigger club than us now. Forget history, no one cares that we had a good few years in the prem. They dwarf us in following and riches now, that would have been inconceivable only over a decade or so ago. How bad can it get in another decade?
I think people genuinely underestimate how broken we are at times based on youtube chats etc.
All these questions about signs, turnstiles and food options do my nut in. I want to watch Charlton be a team that plays at the top level or at least the second level. Not mixing it up with bloody Shrewsbury, Northampton etc every year. (Sorry any Salops and Cobblers who may be floating about.)
It's imperative we get out of this league and become a good football side again, and it feels like cold water is being thrown on that to me. It's all about being 'sensible' and you just can't be in the modern game, you'll be left behind.
There are plenty of examples of teams that are sensible and well-ran climbing the leagues, Brentford just from your post are one of them. There are also lots of examples of teams not being sensible and putting themselves in difficulty. I’d rather try and be a sensible well run club (not saying we are succeeding at this at all), you are much more likely to sustain success by doing this
We can’t just demand ownerships to chuck huge money at this, it just isn’t going to happen. Even with the current levels of spending which you deem not near enough, we are losing £9m a year. This ownership, nor any other potential ownership, isnt going to want to lose significantly more than that into a club that doesn’t even own its assets. You need to be more realistic, we’ve been an absolute shitshow on and off the pitch for a decade, that isn’t going to be turned around overnight, and the state the club and assets are in mean that you aren’t going to get a magic billionaire come in and throw money at it till it succeeds
You will not be able to give me one example of a team that has achieved promotions without spending a fuck ton of money, or, been lucky with academy products. Brentford chucked millions at their team. They of course sold a lot of players for big fees to keep this going, but they were always spending millions on players, that's how it started. Big fees to keep up with the modern game. Brighton who are viewed as a sensible club were the same, spent fortunes to get to the Premier league, so did Bournemouth. None of these became the club's they are now by being sensible.
It's the complete opposite to what you are saying, we won't sustain like this. This, and rolling the dice and it rolling low will lead to the same outcomes. They both have their own risks.
Losing 9 million a year, exactly! So our owners/represtatives as an example, have literally said, they aren't willing to pay the 40-50 million or whatever it is that Roland is asking for, as its too much. So how long are they willing to be a league1 club for before that's too much money pissed away?
It can literally be turned around in one season with money. If money couldn't turn things around, Birmingham wouldn't be top, Wycombe wouldn't be second and Cambridge wouldn't be bottom. That's all football is, money, that's the harsh reality.
I'm not demanding anything, nor will me doing so make a difference, I am posting what the situation is on a Charlton message board.
If we don't spend a fuck load of money to revive this club, we will die a slow painful death, unless we get extremely lucky, and even then, it would only get us so far. To survive in this climate, you need owners who are willing to spend the cash, all the rest is just noise.
There is no such thing as a 5 year plan in this league, by the time you're two years in, all your players and potentially manager will be hoovered up. Good players don't want to spend 5 years in this shit league, they might be more inclined in the championship where they're potentially one season away from the promised land.
More money does mean you are more likely to succeed, but it definitely isn’t the only factor. Plus we are already spending more than most teams in the league
There are plenty of examples of teams going up the leagues without spending silly money. Unless you’ve only been a fan since 2020 you’ll remember our last promotion for starters. I’ve already referenced Luton who went up the leagues by developing their existing players (some that they had in league 2 ended up being championship or even premiership players), selling when they got good offers and reinvesting the money smartly. We’ve not done a good job at it at all so far, but that’s clearly our plan and we even got the Luton manager for it
Just looking at last season Pompey and Oxford were hardly huge spenders, Plymouth got 100 points the season before that, Rotherham and Wycombe also in recent times. We’ve probably got bigger budgets than all of those teams so our budget really isn’t not enough to build a promotion winning side. Spending millions more on transfers isn’t the only way to do it. Developing players and being smart with recruitment is another way to progress a football club, it isn’t as easy but it can work if done correctly. I think we have the right manager to do it, we probably don’t have the right recruitment set up at the moment so that’s where we massively need to improve ahead of the summer
Sorry, but a waste of time, people shouldn't even bother tuning in.
Ultimately the two most important things (promotion and ground ownership) are solved by money, and it appears we have owners that aren't willing to break the bank to get it done.
We won't improve our fan base, as there's too many London clubs better than us, we are currently the 3rd worst professional London football club out of 13 (I am not including the non league riff raff). Until that changes, we won't attract new fans unless they are generational fans.
I'd actually be happy for them to say at this point "we don't have the money to bring you back to the Premier league, we are aiming to keep you afloat until we can make you a more ambitious project to purchase for someone else and make some potential profit on you". Deadly serious as well. I don't believe for a second these owners care further than viewing us as a 3-5 year flip project.
You cannot and I can't emphasise this enough, cannot sustain in this league for a club of our size in London. We are being swallowed every year by more ambitious clubs around us. Brentford as an example are a much bigger club than us now. Forget history, no one cares that we had a good few years in the prem. They dwarf us in following and riches now, that would have been inconceivable only over a decade or so ago. How bad can it get in another decade?
I think people genuinely underestimate how broken we are at times based on youtube chats etc.
All these questions about signs, turnstiles and food options do my nut in. I want to watch Charlton be a team that plays at the top level or at least the second level. Not mixing it up with bloody Shrewsbury, Northampton etc every year. (Sorry any Salops and Cobblers who may be floating about.)
It's imperative we get out of this league and become a good football side again, and it feels like cold water is being thrown on that to me. It's all about being 'sensible' and you just can't be in the modern game, you'll be left behind.
There are plenty of examples of teams that are sensible and well-ran climbing the leagues, Brentford just from your post are one of them. There are also lots of examples of teams not being sensible and putting themselves in difficulty. I’d rather try and be a sensible well run club (not saying we are succeeding at this at all), you are much more likely to sustain success by doing this
We can’t just demand ownerships to chuck huge money at this, it just isn’t going to happen. Even with the current levels of spending which you deem not near enough, we are losing £9m a year. This ownership, nor any other potential ownership, isnt going to want to lose significantly more than that into a club that doesn’t even own its assets. You need to be more realistic, we’ve been an absolute shitshow on and off the pitch for a decade, that isn’t going to be turned around overnight, and the state the club and assets are in mean that you aren’t going to get a magic billionaire come in and throw money at it till it succeeds
You will not be able to give me one example of a team that has achieved promotions without spending a fuck ton of money, or, been lucky with academy products. Brentford chucked millions at their team. They of course sold a lot of players for big fees to keep this going, but they were always spending millions on players, that's how it started. Big fees to keep up with the modern game. Brighton who are viewed as a sensible club were the same, spent fortunes to get to the Premier league, so did Bournemouth. None of these became the club's they are now by being sensible.
It's the complete opposite to what you are saying, we won't sustain like this. This, and rolling the dice and it rolling low will lead to the same outcomes. They both have their own risks.
Losing 9 million a year, exactly! So our owners/represtatives as an example, have literally said, they aren't willing to pay the 40-50 million or whatever it is that Roland is asking for, as its too much. So how long are they willing to be a league1 club for before that's too much money pissed away?
It can literally be turned around in one season with money. If money couldn't turn things around, Birmingham wouldn't be top, Wycombe wouldn't be second and Cambridge wouldn't be bottom. That's all football is, money, that's the harsh reality.
I'm not demanding anything, nor will me doing so make a difference, I am posting what the situation is on a Charlton message board.
If we don't spend a fuck load of money to revive this club, we will die a slow painful death, unless we get extremely lucky, and even then, it would only get us so far. To survive in this climate, you need owners who are willing to spend the cash, all the rest is just noise.
There is no such thing as a 5 year plan in this league, by the time you're two years in, all your players and potentially manager will be hoovered up. Good players don't want to spend 5 years in this shit league, they might be more inclined in the championship where they're potentially one season away from the promised land.
Charlton Athletic - 2018/2019
Lyle Taylor - Free Transfer Darren Pratley - Free Transfer Jonny Williams - Free Transfer Wassim Aouachria - Free Transfer Josh Parker - Undisclosed
That Josh Parker fee must have been something else....
Agree to an extent, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s more money being spent across the league now compared to back then.
Plus squad building is a process. For a L1 team we would have spent a comparatively large amount on Bauer when we were in the division above, we paid for Pearce, JFC, Vetokele and Sarr, just in previous seasons. Three of those were Championship signings being paid accordingly and we topped it up with some smart frees, some good loans and a lot of luck in our academy producing at the right time. Having Phillips, Solly, Dijksteel, Aribo, Grant and Morgan come through when they did eased the pressure on the squad building we needed.
That's why I'm fairly calm about our season this time round as long as we stick with the manager and keep bringing in the right people for his style of play as well as keeping the good players. If we keep Lloyd, Mitchell, Ramsay, Edwards and Small then there's one key spot where we can improve in that defence and anything additional that's better is a bonus. If we keep Coventry, Docherty, Tyreece and Anderson then the focus can be on improving the attacking part of the midfield and bringing in some new strikers and a keeper, presumably with the money we'll likely get for Leaburn at least. Bringing better players into a squad of settled players is how teams tend to develop and get promotion, we've just not done that in years and years. We've generally made bad signings, struggled to move them on and then had to rebuild the entire squad every season. The real test is whether or not we keep the players we want to and get in new ones to improve the gaps
If we don't buy two or three immediate starters we won't get promoted, Small will leave, Leaburn will be sold and there's no guarantee we'll get out of the division next year.
THE SMT are NOT fit for purpose.
Waffle and conjecture. They give me no confidence. Fair play to CM to say until we get out of this division he doesn't want to talk about success.
He's right.
Sadly I dint think he'll be here IF we ever do get out of this division again... upwards!
What did you expect him to do in that moment? Interrupt to agree? Nothing he said elsewhere in the interview contradicted what Rodwell said.
If the right player is available at the right price, they will bring them in. But they won’t do deals for the wrong players at bad prices just to placate the fans.
His silence said it all
The comment if the right player at the right price is not really an actual defined idea.... nobody knows if they're the right price
I simply don't believe this collective "management" are good enough to get us promoted.
4th highest wage bill. Arguably the richest ownership in the division yet constantly being outperformed by smaller, better run, better managed clubs.
You look for the positives i look at the realities. If this management don't buy two or three players this transfer window it is only going to get harder to get promoted under their leadership.
All I hear are excuses. Charlie said it isn't that difficult to turn fortunes around. He continues to disprove that theory.
We can agree to disagree. We have for years. I still remain unbeaten in our differences over each transfer window. I can't wait to lose one.
Sorry, but a waste of time, people shouldn't even bother tuning in.
Ultimately the two most important things (promotion and ground ownership) are solved by money, and it appears we have owners that aren't willing to break the bank to get it done.
We won't improve our fan base, as there's too many London clubs better than us, we are currently the 3rd worst professional London football club out of 13 (I am not including the non league riff raff). Until that changes, we won't attract new fans unless they are generational fans.
I'd actually be happy for them to say at this point "we don't have the money to bring you back to the Premier league, we are aiming to keep you afloat until we can make you a more ambitious project to purchase for someone else and make some potential profit on you". Deadly serious as well. I don't believe for a second these owners care further than viewing us as a 3-5 year flip project.
You cannot and I can't emphasise this enough, cannot sustain in this league for a club of our size in London. We are being swallowed every year by more ambitious clubs around us. Brentford as an example are a much bigger club than us now. Forget history, no one cares that we had a good few years in the prem. They dwarf us in following and riches now, that would have been inconceivable only over a decade or so ago. How bad can it get in another decade?
I think people genuinely underestimate how broken we are at times based on youtube chats etc.
All these questions about signs, turnstiles and food options do my nut in. I want to watch Charlton be a team that plays at the top level or at least the second level. Not mixing it up with bloody Shrewsbury, Northampton etc every year. (Sorry any Salops and Cobblers who may be floating about.)
It's imperative we get out of this league and become a good football side again, and it feels like cold water is being thrown on that to me. It's all about being 'sensible' and you just can't be in the modern game, you'll be left behind.
There are plenty of examples of teams that are sensible and well-ran climbing the leagues, Brentford just from your post are one of them. There are also lots of examples of teams not being sensible and putting themselves in difficulty. I’d rather try and be a sensible well run club (not saying we are succeeding at this at all), you are much more likely to sustain success by doing this
We can’t just demand ownerships to chuck huge money at this, it just isn’t going to happen. Even with the current levels of spending which you deem not near enough, we are losing £9m a year. This ownership, nor any other potential ownership, isnt going to want to lose significantly more than that into a club that doesn’t even own its assets. You need to be more realistic, we’ve been an absolute shitshow on and off the pitch for a decade, that isn’t going to be turned around overnight, and the state the club and assets are in mean that you aren’t going to get a magic billionaire come in and throw money at it till it succeeds
You will not be able to give me one example of a team that has achieved promotions without spending a fuck ton of money, or, been lucky with academy products. Brentford chucked millions at their team. They of course sold a lot of players for big fees to keep this going, but they were always spending millions on players, that's how it started. Big fees to keep up with the modern game. Brighton who are viewed as a sensible club were the same, spent fortunes to get to the Premier league, so did Bournemouth. None of these became the club's they are now by being sensible.
It's the complete opposite to what you are saying, we won't sustain like this. This, and rolling the dice and it rolling low will lead to the same outcomes. They both have their own risks.
Losing 9 million a year, exactly! So our owners/represtatives as an example, have literally said, they aren't willing to pay the 40-50 million or whatever it is that Roland is asking for, as its too much. So how long are they willing to be a league1 club for before that's too much money pissed away?
It can literally be turned around in one season with money. If money couldn't turn things around, Birmingham wouldn't be top, Wycombe wouldn't be second and Cambridge wouldn't be bottom. That's all football is, money, that's the harsh reality.
I'm not demanding anything, nor will me doing so make a difference, I am posting what the situation is on a Charlton message board.
If we don't spend a fuck load of money to revive this club, we will die a slow painful death, unless we get extremely lucky, and even then, it would only get us so far. To survive in this climate, you need owners who are willing to spend the cash, all the rest is just noise.
There is no such thing as a 5 year plan in this league, by the time you're two years in, all your players and potentially manager will be hoovered up. Good players don't want to spend 5 years in this shit league, they might be more inclined in the championship where they're potentially one season away from the promised land.
Wycombe 19/20, spent 0 money on transfer fees and didn't (still don't) have an academy
Portsmouth 23/24 spent €90k and brought in €0
Derby 23/24 spent €350k but brought in €2.88m
Oxford 23/24 spent €456k and brought in €0
(all figures from transfermarkt)
I haven't even had to go back very far to give 4 examples, 1 of which was purely on memory and the other 3 were last season!
The market is totally mad this season. Birmingham and Huddersfield have spent crazy amounts for L1 and Wycombe are now funding a better than expected campaign. Throw in the fact they won't be able to spend to the same levels next season (in L1 or the Championship) it means that teams are trying to spend the money now while they can't get punished
Some good ie the top line finances although we seemed to have skipped a year.
Net transfer spend of £800k to £1m
CM sometimes lets slip more than he intends.
IE bringing catering in house, change in shirt sponsors. Shame those issues weren't probed more but you can't blame in-house interviewers for not going full Jeremy Paxman
Think he confirmed what I said a few weeks back eg the big money guys are happy to put in what they said they would (£10m pa) but they aren't going to splash the cash over and above that.
CM was right say we can't talk about success until we get promoted. Were not on track for that but at least he acknowledged that.
Carter isn't a natural on TV and I keep thinking he's @AFKABartram but he is on top of his brief and appears to be constantly talking to managers.
On to the negative. The questioning was largely vague and soft, and especially from the reps. The fans questions from whattsapp were better and more to the point.
And Ali Maxwell: why? Must be a dozen CAFC fans who could do that.
Technically it was poor, sound was uneven and someone tell CM to look into the camers
I actually think all the fan engagement stuff is good but it's not very sexy for most fans and I have my own issues right now about how much it is real when push comes to shove.
Pleased for Jon and Lewis. I still thing the advisory board set up is totally wrong but that's for another debate.
I'm a big critic of CAST so this will be dismissed by some as having an axe to grind but tonight Heather didn't present CAST as an organisation likely to ask tough or probing questions or that would hold the board to account.
Overall, it was good that it happened but I think the club over managed it due to a lack of confidence/fear of difficult questions when in reality they would have been better to just take whatever came. Nothing should really come as a surprise to them and none of the four are that inarticulate or unable to think on their feet.
So, in a nutshell......
The owners are happy to keep ploughing in £10m a year just to stay in this division, with every few seasons a player sale might be enough to buy a couple more mediocre players that will help us finish 10th. Because they have no ambition to ever spend any money that might get us out of this poxy league.
RIght-o.
Not what I said.
I believe CM sold them the idea that he could reduce costs and increase income (see his ££ slide) and this, plus boosting the squad with academy talent which is our big USP, would produce the additional budget to produce a promotion winning team.
Not happened IMHO because of our poor recruitment (even Rodwell said how poorly we'd used the loan market) and the churn of managers.
I didn’t listen to it, but my reading of the comments made by the SMT is very simple, the plan is. That the owners agreed to give Charlton £10 million a year (losses where around £9 million per year when they took over) to fund the losses which they appear to be doing and are willing to do, therefore at present they are keeping to there part of the plan. This meant we had a million to invest in players and infrastructure/ infrastructure.
The problem is that the SMT stated they could reduce the losses to a more sustainable £3 million or less per year which meant there would be around £7 million per year for investment in players and infrastructure, this they have failed to do successfully as from the figures shown by the SMT would appear that the reduction was being generous £1/2 million or less, so the losses reduced from around £9 million to £8.5 millions. Which means now we have £1.5 millions to invest in infrastructure/ players.
So as I see it the owners are doing their bit, but the SMT have totally failed, I know this is very simplistic but, the owners must be looking at the figures and surly thinking, the SMT are failing and need replacing. They will not be thinking about spending more money than they agreed to (for ground purchase, but if pushed them may consider extending lease), infrastructure and new players, let’s be honest would you?
So my expectations is that there will be a new SMT in place by this time next year, they will be charged to reduce costs hopefully to a more realistic figure (my guess £5 million or less) therefore Charlton would have around £5 million a year for infrastructure and players. The big worry is how do you reduce the losses to £5 million?
Probably a load of rubbish, but that’s my take from what I read on here.
Agree and have said much the like when they turned up. Methven offering unrealistic outcomes but they kind of fell for it. My question would be, could any SMT reduce the losses to the levels you mention? I reckon it would be a pretty tall order for the best of them let alone this bunch of chancers. So the next question has to be, will the investors even stick around to find out. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I still think in the not too distant future, Methven will be left holding the baby.
I also been thinking similar from day 1, but funny enough I’m a little more optimistic now, as the owners seem to be happy investing (I’m talking of the 3 major owners, the others are insignificant) at the moment. As I mentioned previously I been in the 3 major owners position where we put in place a SMT in our company, (admittedly nor sustaining the losses being mentioned or with the spare cash they got) they promised the earth and where gone within two years. So I can understand the owners thought process which is simply you promised to reduce losses significantly, until you do no extra cash, and without doubt there will be an add on of a date this is to be achieved by (my guess is 3 years) when the crunch will come and either the SMT will disappear (I believe this will be be the outcome but the time frame could be wrong, why this simply they invested to much spare change to throw it all away after 3 years) or the owners will walk away, unfortunately only the owners what the final outcome will be, but in my opinion the crunch point is coming, so if I’m right expect disagreement amongst the SMT.
I also wouldn’t expect a sale of an asset (player) to halo the SMT out much as the owner aren’t idiots and a quick fix on the books won’t impress them as much as the stated significant costs reductions.
When you break down every individual 'positive' Methven probably used to float the idea to these people, when you really go into the nuts and bolts of it you'll probably find a lot of it was hogwash. For instance, I keep hearing him banging on about our outstanding academy. But is it really that outstanding anymore? The very best young talent in London and the south east will have lots of offers and choice. I would argue that in the unlikely event they are likely to choose Charlton as their starting point in a professional career it isn't too long for our neighbours up ,down and over the road to entice them away. It's happening and has been more and more recently. You only need take one look at the 'talent' we've seen lining up for the first team in recent seasons to see that particular gravy train is slowly running dry. We're in a mess. I suppose you could applaud Methven for trying something. Not sure there were too many more gigs in town offering to finance a near £10 million annual loss? Airman would probably have something to say about that, but given the clusterfu*k circumstances we find ourselves in I'm really not convinced there were many more groups interested in dipping a toe in.
Sorry, but a waste of time, people shouldn't even bother tuning in.
Ultimately the two most important things (promotion and ground ownership) are solved by money, and it appears we have owners that aren't willing to break the bank to get it done.
We won't improve our fan base, as there's too many London clubs better than us, we are currently the 3rd worst professional London football club out of 13 (I am not including the non league riff raff). Until that changes, we won't attract new fans unless they are generational fans.
I'd actually be happy for them to say at this point "we don't have the money to bring you back to the Premier league, we are aiming to keep you afloat until we can make you a more ambitious project to purchase for someone else and make some potential profit on you". Deadly serious as well. I don't believe for a second these owners care further than viewing us as a 3-5 year flip project.
You cannot and I can't emphasise this enough, cannot sustain in this league for a club of our size in London. We are being swallowed every year by more ambitious clubs around us. Brentford as an example are a much bigger club than us now. Forget history, no one cares that we had a good few years in the prem. They dwarf us in following and riches now, that would have been inconceivable only over a decade or so ago. How bad can it get in another decade?
I think people genuinely underestimate how broken we are at times based on youtube chats etc.
All these questions about signs, turnstiles and food options do my nut in. I want to watch Charlton be a team that plays at the top level or at least the second level. Not mixing it up with bloody Shrewsbury, Northampton etc every year. (Sorry any Salops and Cobblers who may be floating about.)
It's imperative we get out of this league and become a good football side again, and it feels like cold water is being thrown on that to me. It's all about being 'sensible' and you just can't be in the modern game, you'll be left behind.
There are plenty of examples of teams that are sensible and well-ran climbing the leagues, Brentford just from your post are one of them. There are also lots of examples of teams not being sensible and putting themselves in difficulty. I’d rather try and be a sensible well run club (not saying we are succeeding at this at all), you are much more likely to sustain success by doing this
We can’t just demand ownerships to chuck huge money at this, it just isn’t going to happen. Even with the current levels of spending which you deem not near enough, we are losing £9m a year. This ownership, nor any other potential ownership, isnt going to want to lose significantly more than that into a club that doesn’t even own its assets. You need to be more realistic, we’ve been an absolute shitshow on and off the pitch for a decade, that isn’t going to be turned around overnight, and the state the club and assets are in mean that you aren’t going to get a magic billionaire come in and throw money at it till it succeeds
You will not be able to give me one example of a team that has achieved promotions without spending a fuck ton of money, or, been lucky with academy products. Brentford chucked millions at their team. They of course sold a lot of players for big fees to keep this going, but they were always spending millions on players, that's how it started. Big fees to keep up with the modern game. Brighton who are viewed as a sensible club were the same, spent fortunes to get to the Premier league, so did Bournemouth. None of these became the club's they are now by being sensible.
It's the complete opposite to what you are saying, we won't sustain like this. This, and rolling the dice and it rolling low will lead to the same outcomes. They both have their own risks.
Losing 9 million a year, exactly! So our owners/represtatives as an example, have literally said, they aren't willing to pay the 40-50 million or whatever it is that Roland is asking for, as its too much. So how long are they willing to be a league1 club for before that's too much money pissed away?
It can literally be turned around in one season with money. If money couldn't turn things around, Birmingham wouldn't be top, Wycombe wouldn't be second and Cambridge wouldn't be bottom. That's all football is, money, that's the harsh reality.
I'm not demanding anything, nor will me doing so make a difference, I am posting what the situation is on a Charlton message board.
If we don't spend a fuck load of money to revive this club, we will die a slow painful death, unless we get extremely lucky, and even then, it would only get us so far. To survive in this climate, you need owners who are willing to spend the cash, all the rest is just noise.
There is no such thing as a 5 year plan in this league, by the time you're two years in, all your players and potentially manager will be hoovered up. Good players don't want to spend 5 years in this shit league, they might be more inclined in the championship where they're potentially one season away from the promised land.
Charlton Athletic - 2018/2019
Lyle Taylor - Free Transfer Darren Pratley - Free Transfer Jonny Williams - Free Transfer Wassim Aouachria - Free Transfer Josh Parker - Undisclosed
That Josh Parker fee must have been something else.
Oxford? Coventry? Not Premier league but promoted out of this league in recent years without doing an Ipswich. It's not what you spend but how that's key to success. Always has been. Always will be.
JCH, wanted by a few on here, hasn't worked out at Rotherham. Waste of money for them. Results improved once he was dropped, with fans also wanting him out of the team. Sound familiar to any strikers here who cost money?
Do you need any less luck getting bought in players to become part of a successful team than promoting promising home grown talent into it given decent coaching? Whilst our recruitment lets us down, the same scrutiny should go on the coaching set up. Better coaching lessens the element of luck all round.
We crave stability, but never seem to have the right balance to make that an option. I guess it does take a while before you have a settled group that just needs the odd tweak to transform it into a promotion contender.
Sorry, but a waste of time, people shouldn't even bother tuning in.
Ultimately the two most important things (promotion and ground ownership) are solved by money, and it appears we have owners that aren't willing to break the bank to get it done.
We won't improve our fan base, as there's too many London clubs better than us, we are currently the 3rd worst professional London football club out of 13 (I am not including the non league riff raff). Until that changes, we won't attract new fans unless they are generational fans.
I'd actually be happy for them to say at this point "we don't have the money to bring you back to the Premier league, we are aiming to keep you afloat until we can make you a more ambitious project to purchase for someone else and make some potential profit on you". Deadly serious as well. I don't believe for a second these owners care further than viewing us as a 3-5 year flip project.
You cannot and I can't emphasise this enough, cannot sustain in this league for a club of our size in London. We are being swallowed every year by more ambitious clubs around us. Brentford as an example are a much bigger club than us now. Forget history, no one cares that we had a good few years in the prem. They dwarf us in following and riches now, that would have been inconceivable only over a decade or so ago. How bad can it get in another decade?
I think people genuinely underestimate how broken we are at times based on youtube chats etc.
All these questions about signs, turnstiles and food options do my nut in. I want to watch Charlton be a team that plays at the top level or at least the second level. Not mixing it up with bloody Shrewsbury, Northampton etc every year. (Sorry any Salops and Cobblers who may be floating about.)
It's imperative we get out of this league and become a good football side again, and it feels like cold water is being thrown on that to me. It's all about being 'sensible' and you just can't be in the modern game, you'll be left behind.
There are plenty of examples of teams that are sensible and well-ran climbing the leagues, Brentford just from your post are one of them. There are also lots of examples of teams not being sensible and putting themselves in difficulty. I’d rather try and be a sensible well run club (not saying we are succeeding at this at all), you are much more likely to sustain success by doing this
We can’t just demand ownerships to chuck huge money at this, it just isn’t going to happen. Even with the current levels of spending which you deem not near enough, we are losing £9m a year. This ownership, nor any other potential ownership, isnt going to want to lose significantly more than that into a club that doesn’t even own its assets. You need to be more realistic, we’ve been an absolute shitshow on and off the pitch for a decade, that isn’t going to be turned around overnight, and the state the club and assets are in mean that you aren’t going to get a magic billionaire come in and throw money at it till it succeeds
You will not be able to give me one example of a team that has achieved promotions without spending a fuck ton of money, or, been lucky with academy products. Brentford chucked millions at their team. They of course sold a lot of players for big fees to keep this going, but they were always spending millions on players, that's how it started. Big fees to keep up with the modern game. Brighton who are viewed as a sensible club were the same, spent fortunes to get to the Premier league, so did Bournemouth. None of these became the club's they are now by being sensible.
It's the complete opposite to what you are saying, we won't sustain like this. This, and rolling the dice and it rolling low will lead to the same outcomes. They both have their own risks.
Losing 9 million a year, exactly! So our owners/represtatives as an example, have literally said, they aren't willing to pay the 40-50 million or whatever it is that Roland is asking for, as its too much. So how long are they willing to be a league1 club for before that's too much money pissed away?
It can literally be turned around in one season with money. If money couldn't turn things around, Birmingham wouldn't be top, Wycombe wouldn't be second and Cambridge wouldn't be bottom. That's all football is, money, that's the harsh reality.
I'm not demanding anything, nor will me doing so make a difference, I am posting what the situation is on a Charlton message board.
If we don't spend a fuck load of money to revive this club, we will die a slow painful death, unless we get extremely lucky, and even then, it would only get us so far. To survive in this climate, you need owners who are willing to spend the cash, all the rest is just noise.
There is no such thing as a 5 year plan in this league, by the time you're two years in, all your players and potentially manager will be hoovered up. Good players don't want to spend 5 years in this shit league, they might be more inclined in the championship where they're potentially one season away from the promised land.
Charlton Athletic - 2018/2019
Lyle Taylor - Free Transfer Darren Pratley - Free Transfer Jonny Williams - Free Transfer Wassim Aouachria - Free Transfer Josh Parker - Undisclosed
That Josh Parker fee must have been something else.
Oxford? Coventry? Not Premier league but promoted out of this league in recent years without doing an Ipswich. It's not what you spend but how that's key to success. Always has been. Always will be.
JCH, wanted by a few on here, hasn't worked out at Rotherham. Waste of money for them. Results improved once he was dropped, with fans also wanting him out of the team. Sound familiar to any strikers here who cost money?
Do you need any less luck getting bought in players to become part of a successful team than promoting promising home grown talent into it given decent coaching? Whilst our recruitment lets us down, the same scrutiny should go on the coaching set up. Better coaching lessens the element of luck all round.
We crave stability, but never seem to have the right balance to make that an option. I guess it does take a while before you have a settled group that just needs the odd tweak to transform it into a promotion contender.
Southampton (granted lost their way a bit but im sure we'd all swap), Brentford and Brighton 3 clubs that went and revamped their recruitment and coaching set ups. It's those foundations that mean they can spunk the cost of our club on a single player and compete in the top two divisions now.
Some good ie the top line finances although we seemed to have skipped a year.
Net transfer spend of £800k to £1m
CM sometimes lets slip more than he intends.
IE bringing catering in house, change in shirt sponsors. Shame those issues weren't probed more but you can't blame in-house interviewers for not going full Jeremy Paxman
Think he confirmed what I said a few weeks back eg the big money guys are happy to put in what they said they would (£10m pa) but they aren't going to splash the cash over and above that.
CM was right say we can't talk about success until we get promoted. Were not on track for that but at least he acknowledged that.
Carter isn't a natural on TV and I keep thinking he's @AFKABartram but he is on top of his brief and appears to be constantly talking to managers.
On to the negative. The questioning was largely vague and soft, and especially from the reps. The fans questions from whattsapp were better and more to the point.
And Ali Maxwell: why? Must be a dozen CAFC fans who could do that.
Technically it was poor, sound was uneven and someone tell CM to look into the camers
I actually think all the fan engagement stuff is good but it's not very sexy for most fans and I have my own issues right now about how much it is real when push comes to shove.
Pleased for Jon and Lewis. I still thing the advisory board set up is totally wrong but that's for another debate.
I'm a big critic of CAST so this will be dismissed by some as having an axe to grind but tonight Heather didn't present CAST as an organisation likely to ask tough or probing questions or that would hold the board to account.
Overall, it was good that it happened but I think the club over managed it due to a lack of confidence/fear of difficult questions when in reality they would have been better to just take whatever came. Nothing should really come as a surprise to them and none of the four are that inarticulate or unable to think on their feet.
So, in a nutshell......
The owners are happy to keep ploughing in £10m a year just to stay in this division, with every few seasons a player sale might be enough to buy a couple more mediocre players that will help us finish 10th. Because they have no ambition to ever spend any money that might get us out of this poxy league.
RIght-o.
Not what I said.
I believe CM sold them the idea that he could reduce costs and increase income (see his ££ slide) and this, plus boosting the squad with academy talent which is our big USP, would produce the additional budget to produce a promotion winning team.
Not happened IMHO because of our poor recruitment (even Rodwell said how poorly we'd used the loan market) and the churn of managers.
I didn’t listen to it, but my reading of the comments made by the SMT is very simple, the plan is. That the owners agreed to give Charlton £10 million a year (losses where around £9 million per year when they took over) to fund the losses which they appear to be doing and are willing to do, therefore at present they are keeping to there part of the plan. This meant we had a million to invest in players and infrastructure/ infrastructure.
The problem is that the SMT stated they could reduce the losses to a more sustainable £3 million or less per year which meant there would be around £7 million per year for investment in players and infrastructure, this they have failed to do successfully as from the figures shown by the SMT would appear that the reduction was being generous £1/2 million or less, so the losses reduced from around £9 million to £8.5 millions. Which means now we have £1.5 millions to invest in infrastructure/ players.
So as I see it the owners are doing their bit, but the SMT have totally failed, I know this is very simplistic but, the owners must be looking at the figures and surly thinking, the SMT are failing and need replacing. They will not be thinking about spending more money than they agreed to (for ground purchase, but if pushed them may consider extending lease), infrastructure and new players, let’s be honest would you?
So my expectations is that there will be a new SMT in place by this time next year, they will be charged to reduce costs hopefully to a more realistic figure (my guess £5 million or less) therefore Charlton would have around £5 million a year for infrastructure and players. The big worry is how do you reduce the losses to £5 million?
Probably a load of rubbish, but that’s my take from what I read on here.
Agree and have said much the like when they turned up. Methven offering unrealistic outcomes but they kind of fell for it. My question would be, could any SMT reduce the losses to the levels you mention? I reckon it would be a pretty tall order for the best of them let alone this bunch of chancers. So the next question has to be, will the investors even stick around to find out. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I still think in the not too distant future, Methven will be left holding the baby.
I also been thinking similar from day 1, but funny enough I’m a little more optimistic now, as the owners seem to be happy investing (I’m talking of the 3 major owners, the others are insignificant) at the moment. As I mentioned previously I been in the 3 major owners position where we put in place a SMT in our company, (admittedly nor sustaining the losses being mentioned or with the spare cash they got) they promised the earth and where gone within two years. So I can understand the owners thought process which is simply you promised to reduce losses significantly, until you do no extra cash, and without doubt there will be an add on of a date this is to be achieved by (my guess is 3 years) when the crunch will come and either the SMT will disappear (I believe this will be be the outcome but the time frame could be wrong, why this simply they invested to much spare change to throw it all away after 3 years) or the owners will walk away, unfortunately only the owners what the final outcome will be, but in my opinion the crunch point is coming, so if I’m right expect disagreement amongst the SMT.
I also wouldn’t expect a sale of an asset (player) to halo the SMT out much as the owner aren’t idiots and a quick fix on the books won’t impress them as much as the stated significant costs reductions.
When you break down every individual 'positive' Methven probably used to float the idea to these people, when you really go into the nuts and bolts of it you'll probably find a lot of it was hogwash. For instance, I keep hearing him banging on about our outstanding academy. But is it really that outstanding anymore? The very best young talent in London and the south east will have lots of offers and choice. I would argue that in the unlikely event they are likely to choose Charlton as their starting point in a professional career it isn't too long for our neighbours up ,down and over the road to entice them away. It's happening and has been more and more recently. You only need take one look at the 'talent' we've seen lining up for the first team in recent seasons to see that particular gravy train is slowly running dry. We're in a mess. I suppose you could applaud Methven for trying something. Not sure there were too many more gigs in town offering to finance a near £10 million annual loss? Airman would probably have something to say about that, but given the clusterfu*k circumstances we find ourselves in I'm really not convinced there were many more groups interested in dipping a toe in.
Whilst agreeing with you on most of you wrote, there is an alternative scenario (which I don’t believe but wouldn’t write off) that the 3 major owners where fully aware of the hogwash and went along with it, thinking if these idiots (SMT and being polite) think they can do it then we can give it a go and blow them out when they proved they can’t and then put proper SMT in place, ie let the idiots do the dirty work and take the blame and then put the glory boys in. This scenario is most unlikely but let’s be honest if you’re a billionaire you didn’t get that rich by being scanned by a bunch of idiots. Just an alternative view.
If we don't buy two or three immediate starters we won't get promoted, Small will leave, Leaburn will be sold and there's no guarantee we'll get out of the division next year.
THE SMT are NOT fit for purpose.
Waffle and conjecture. They give me no confidence. Fair play to CM to say until we get out of this division he doesn't want to talk about success.
He's right.
Sadly I dint think he'll be here IF we ever do get out of this division again... upwards!
What did you expect him to do in that moment? Interrupt to agree? Nothing he said elsewhere in the interview contradicted what Rodwell said.
If the right player is available at the right price, they will bring them in. But they won’t do deals for the wrong players at bad prices just to placate the fans.
His silence said it all
The comment if the right player at the right price is not really an actual defined idea.... nobody knows if they're the right price
I simply don't believe this collective "management" are good enough to get us promoted.
4th highest wage bill. Arguably the richest ownership in the division yet constantly being outperformed by smaller, better run, better managed clubs.
You look for the positives i look at the realities. If this management don't buy two or three players this transfer window it is only going to get harder to get promoted under their leadership.
All I hear are excuses. Charlie said it isn't that difficult to turn fortunes around. He continues to disprove that theory.
We can agree to disagree. We have for years. I still remain unbeaten in our differences over each transfer window. I can't wait to lose one.
Yep.....I'm with you on your last point.
It would be nice for once to be able to say in August......" this squad looks pretty decent, I reckon we could be in with a shout of the play offs".
There's a few on here that say that anyway despite having a poor transfer window and unbalanced squad. I said 10th before the season started and unfortunately I don't think I'll be far off.
Can someone point me to a summary of last nights events please (if ones already been done)?
I've started to wade through 600-odd posts but the bickering was becoming a bit much (I know, it's CL - but I don't have the time today!) so a nice succinct summary would be splendid!
At least we knew, right from the start, Charlie would be a disaster running this club from his previous track record. It took some time to realise Sandgaard was an idiot. Now we just have to bide our time and wait for the owners to twig he’s incompetent.
Or could a cheeky protest against the SMT hasten the owners into a change?
Didn't watch last night as I find these things pretty much a waste of time as the management bs we all know and love flows superbly.
But if I had, I would have left this one point for the SMT to think about.
Leave Bromley out of the equation, if AFC Wimbledon go up this year and carry on their good form, Leyton Orient carry on the incredible run they are on at the moment and we don't go up, it's not inconceivable we could be the lowest ranked club in London next season.
Think about that. It's incredible. Teams like Orient and Brentford that we always considered no threat lauding it above us whilst the likes of Palace, Fulham, Millwall and QPR that I always thought we were on a par with, if not bigger than in some circumstances, are now firmly established in leagues above us. Indeed, the first two - much as I hate to admit it - miles in front of us atm.
The further we fall, the more our support will crumble as young supporters coming through won't want to be associated with us. Time is not on our side and the SMT really should recognise this.
Having them in seperate locations was daft. It meant they increased their costs as presumably they had to pay both Charlotte and Ali.
However I think it was more due to them wanting all 4 of the staff on and they can't all fit in the studio at The Valley, rather than a falling out.
Found the whole event bizarre and as a poiitbr learning exercise it achieved nothing
It's a classic hygiene factor versus motivator scenario. These things are never going to wow fans by assuring there will be loads of signings, guaranteed owner investment for years to come and throwing in a nugget that The Valley will be bought back in 2026.
The best you can do with these things is not to piss the fans off. This is where fans will look for clues that all is well and the SMT failed with that. The body language between the interviewees was awful at both locations and the answers to some, let's face it, nondescript questions came across as vacuus. Yes there was some encouragement that some, relatively minor, stadium issues are being looked at but that's not really what is of importance to most of us.
I most want answers to two things - what do they view as the chances of us getting to the play offs this season? Of course the answer will be 'good' but then I would like some gravitas in their answers as to why the chances are good.
Secondly, if we miss out on promotion this term how committed are our owners to further investment? Of course the answer will be that 'it's a long term commitment' but, again, comfort is sought in understanding the detail as to why the SMT are convinced of this long term investment.
I watch these things out of curiosity but I’ve long accepted that I’m so cautious and cynical of executive presented speak that i don’t believe a single thing that’s said.
Methven’s slide was to show transparency but also to show the things under his (non-football) remit are going in the right direction. Everything is up, we’re doing great is the message.
But the devil is always in the detail that’s not shared, why was 2 seasons ago used as the comparator? Why were the category breakdowns different to those in the published accounts so they couldn’t be fact checked? With nearly half a season and potential playoffs ahead, what factors were built into the forcasted figures for this season that showed everything being up?
Methven is an assertive and convincing orator, on the face of it you more often than not nod along in agreement with pretty much everything he says as he speaks persuasively and based on what he asserts as ‘truth’. You just have to take stock at times and question the fullness of the truth.
For example, he made a big thing (mentioned at least twice) that ‘attendances were strongly up’. But everyone that has been every game this season knows that in no way are attendances strongly up, there was one freak game v Wrexham that distorted the average.
These things shouldn’t be treated too seriously. It’s good that the club are willing to do them as it does provide an element of public accountability but we’ll know when the club has finally turned the corner on the pitch when it stops being such a cautiously managed message exercise.
Reading your post, Dan, reminded me of something Paul Weller states in the film we watched yesterday - Blitz.
Another adage from out grandparents' times...
" More mouth than trousers ".
Or in CM's case " More mouth than pink trousers ".
I find myself doubting Methwen's elaborate answers.
Just take the floodlight issue. "The Operations team are getting the engineers to go up there, we think there are one or two different causes between the different bulbs and systems".
It sounds to me like he's just put it on his to do list.
Some good ie the top line finances although we seemed to have skipped a year.
Net transfer spend of £800k to £1m
CM sometimes lets slip more than he intends.
IE bringing catering in house, change in shirt sponsors. Shame those issues weren't probed more but you can't blame in-house interviewers for not going full Jeremy Paxman
Think he confirmed what I said a few weeks back eg the big money guys are happy to put in what they said they would (£10m pa) but they aren't going to splash the cash over and above that.
CM was right say we can't talk about success until we get promoted. Were not on track for that but at least he acknowledged that.
Carter isn't a natural on TV and I keep thinking he's @AFKABartram but he is on top of his brief and appears to be constantly talking to managers.
On to the negative. The questioning was largely vague and soft, and especially from the reps. The fans questions from whattsapp were better and more to the point.
And Ali Maxwell: why? Must be a dozen CAFC fans who could do that.
Technically it was poor, sound was uneven and someone tell CM to look into the camers
I actually think all the fan engagement stuff is good but it's not very sexy for most fans and I have my own issues right now about how much it is real when push comes to shove.
Pleased for Jon and Lewis. I still thing the advisory board set up is totally wrong but that's for another debate.
I'm a big critic of CAST so this will be dismissed by some as having an axe to grind but tonight Heather didn't present CAST as an organisation likely to ask tough or probing questions or that would hold the board to account.
Overall, it was good that it happened but I think the club over managed it due to a lack of confidence/fear of difficult questions when in reality they would have been better to just take whatever came. Nothing should really come as a surprise to them and none of the four are that inarticulate or unable to think on their feet.
So, in a nutshell......
The owners are happy to keep ploughing in £10m a year just to stay in this division, with every few seasons a player sale might be enough to buy a couple more mediocre players that will help us finish 10th. Because they have no ambition to ever spend any money that might get us out of this poxy league.
RIght-o.
Not what I said.
I believe CM sold them the idea that he could reduce costs and increase income (see his ££ slide) and this, plus boosting the squad with academy talent which is our big USP, would produce the additional budget to produce a promotion winning team.
Not happened IMHO because of our poor recruitment (even Rodwell said how poorly we'd used the loan market) and the churn of managers.
I didn’t listen to it, but my reading of the comments made by the SMT is very simple, the plan is. That the owners agreed to give Charlton £10 million a year (losses where around £9 million per year when they took over) to fund the losses which they appear to be doing and are willing to do, therefore at present they are keeping to there part of the plan. This meant we had a million to invest in players and infrastructure/ infrastructure.
The problem is that the SMT stated they could reduce the losses to a more sustainable £3 million or less per year which meant there would be around £7 million per year for investment in players and infrastructure, this they have failed to do successfully as from the figures shown by the SMT would appear that the reduction was being generous £1/2 million or less, so the losses reduced from around £9 million to £8.5 millions. Which means now we have £1.5 millions to invest in infrastructure/ players.
So as I see it the owners are doing their bit, but the SMT have totally failed, I know this is very simplistic but, the owners must be looking at the figures and surly thinking, the SMT are failing and need replacing. They will not be thinking about spending more money than they agreed to (for ground purchase, but if pushed them may consider extending lease), infrastructure and new players, let’s be honest would you?
So my expectations is that there will be a new SMT in place by this time next year, they will be charged to reduce costs hopefully to a more realistic figure (my guess £5 million or less) therefore Charlton would have around £5 million a year for infrastructure and players. The big worry is how do you reduce the losses to £5 million?
Probably a load of rubbish, but that’s my take from what I read on here.
Agree and have said much the like when they turned up. Methven offering unrealistic outcomes but they kind of fell for it. My question would be, could any SMT reduce the losses to the levels you mention? I reckon it would be a pretty tall order for the best of them let alone this bunch of chancers. So the next question has to be, will the investors even stick around to find out. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I still think in the not too distant future, Methven will be left holding the baby.
I also been thinking similar from day 1, but funny enough I’m a little more optimistic now, as the owners seem to be happy investing (I’m talking of the 3 major owners, the others are insignificant) at the moment. As I mentioned previously I been in the 3 major owners position where we put in place a SMT in our company, (admittedly nor sustaining the losses being mentioned or with the spare cash they got) they promised the earth and where gone within two years. So I can understand the owners thought process which is simply you promised to reduce losses significantly, until you do no extra cash, and without doubt there will be an add on of a date this is to be achieved by (my guess is 3 years) when the crunch will come and either the SMT will disappear (I believe this will be be the outcome but the time frame could be wrong, why this simply they invested to much spare change to throw it all away after 3 years) or the owners will walk away, unfortunately only the owners what the final outcome will be, but in my opinion the crunch point is coming, so if I’m right expect disagreement amongst the SMT.
I also wouldn’t expect a sale of an asset (player) to halo the SMT out much as the owner aren’t idiots and a quick fix on the books won’t impress them as much as the stated significant costs reductions.
When you break down every individual 'positive' Methven probably used to float the idea to these people, when you really go into the nuts and bolts of it you'll probably find a lot of it was hogwash. For instance, I keep hearing him banging on about our outstanding academy. But is it really that outstanding anymore? The very best young talent in London and the south east will have lots of offers and choice. I would argue that in the unlikely event they are likely to choose Charlton as their starting point in a professional career it isn't too long for our neighbours up ,down and over the road to entice them away. It's happening and has been more and more recently. You only need take one look at the 'talent' we've seen lining up for the first team in recent seasons to see that particular gravy train is slowly running dry. We're in a mess. I suppose you could applaud Methven for trying something. Not sure there were too many more gigs in town offering to finance a near £10 million annual loss? Airman would probably have something to say about that, but given the clusterfu*k circumstances we find ourselves in I'm really not convinced there were many more groups interested in dipping a toe in.
I agree with that, particularly because of 1) the stadium ownership / lease and 2) paying off Sandgaard, who had nothing really to sell.
it’s entirely possible the substantive owners will prove to be a good thing and it appears the agent Jon Smith had at least as much to do with them arriving as Methven.
The club was so badly managed under RD and TS that it was always going to be possible to make modest incremental improvements in revenue, after inflation, but not transformational ones. But the shitshow made this difficult for people distant from the situation to evaluate and opened the space for large exaggeration about what was achievable. I’m not convinced that once you take the easy wins the improvement will continue (and we need to see 23/24 before accepting even what we’re being told).
if you look at Charlie’s net figures for retail, the improvement will be real but the total benefit is trivial in terms of the whole business. This has always been the case with retail and it’s indicative of some of the fundamental challenges of CAFC as a business. Retail profit wasn’t just rubbish because Castore were hopeless, it’s because the club as a business has limited commercial capacity. You can only really hope to change that in the PL or at the top of the Championship, and that will come at a price.
Losing circa £10m a year (before transfers) to sit in L1 is a mug’s game and if the football performance does not match its resourcing over time you have to look at the competence of the decision makers.
Listened/watched this morning on my Phone and this may say more about my strong coffee but I thought when they went to Sparrows lane I was watching Gerry Adams and Chris McCausland !
Listened/watched this morning on my Phone and this may say more about my strong coffee but I thought when they went to Sparrows lane I was watching Gerry Adams and Chris McCausland !
Gerry Adams would have looked more enthusiastic than Rodwell...
Listened/watched this morning on my Phone and this may say more about my strong coffee but I thought when they went to Sparrows lane I was watching Gerry Adams and Chris McCausland !
Gerry Adams would have looked more enthusiastic than Rodwell...
Wouldn't blame him for denying ever being a part of CAFC though
I'm not quoting all of you as it's too much clutter, but I deliberately mentioned Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford for a reason, that they're Premier League teams. If they hadn't done what what they did (throw a fuck load of cash at it) they'd arguably be back down here, or, a gatekeeper championship side like Preston or Bristol City at best.
At some point, if you don't spend millions, you end up back here. That's what happened to us and that's what will happen to all of them.
You will need to spend millions eventually and show some ambition. Of all the teams you've mentioned, one has already come back down in Wycombe, soon to be another in Plymouth, the others will probably as well if they don't spend. Then you have the likes of Rotherham, Wigan, Burton, Peterborough and Christ knows how many other examples of getting promoted 'sensibly' and coming right back down.
It is all about money, or getting very, very lucky. Always has been, always will be. Convince yourselves otherwise till your hearts content, makes no difference to me.
I'm not quoting all of you as it's too much clutter, but I deliberately mentioned Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford for a reason, that they're Premier League teams. If they hadn't done what what they did (throw a fuck load of cash at it) they'd arguably be back down here, or, a gatekeeper championship side like Preston or Bristol City at best.
At some point, if you don't spend millions, you end up back here. That's what happened to us and that's what will happen to all of them.
You will need to spend millions eventually and show some ambition. Of all the teams you've mentioned, one has already come back down in Wycombe, soon to be another in Plymouth, the others will probably as well if they don't spend. Then you have the likes of Rotherham, Wigan, Burton, Peterborough and Christ knows how many other examples of getting promoted 'sensibly' and coming right back down.
It is all about money, or getting very, very lucky. Always has been, always will be. Convince yourselves otherwise till your hearts content, makes no difference to me.
So just ignore Luton then? The team we are clearly basing ourselves on. Also Brentford in terms of net spend aren’t really on that level either.
To get to the premier league and stay there you obviously need huge investment. But we are talking about trying to get to the championship, at which point we are much more likely to attract the kind of ownership or additional investment that you want. We spend more in league 1 than all those sensible teams did, if they can get promoted on their budgets then so can we. And we spend more than them so have more chance at staying up and continuing to progress if we do things right, and I think we’ve got the right manager to do that
In league 1 when we don’t own our assets, no one is going to pour that kind of money into us. You can keep saying we need it but it’s never going to happen, so how about try and get behind what is actually realistic instead of this pipe dream that we are going to spend millions on players and buy promotion
Wigan is also the exact example of not being sensible. They spent way too much money on wages to get out of league 1, and it ended up putting them in serious difficulty financially. Much rather be sensible than at higher risk of an owner pulling the plug after spending too much
Really don't agree with their loan policy.In fact it contradicts Methven.
He said how important it is to get out of league one ASAP.
We've used our London location to pick up top quality loans from much bigger local clubs who want their prospects to not venture too far from the nest to great value in the past. 2018 the case in point. What happened to our reltionships with the likes of Arsenal and West Ham?
With the clock ticking, have we the time to nurture our own inferior talent?
Yes, I'd have liked to have heard more in depth on loans. I get the bit about developing other clubs younger, raw talent rather than our own but I do wonder about the loan market with respect to experience and quality (relative of course to our L1 position) ........ is it too hit and miss with regard to impact and success, not affordable, not attractive to quality players....?
Didn't watch last night as I find these things pretty much a waste of time as the management bs we all know and love flows superbly.
But if I had, I would have left this one point for the SMT to think about.
Leave Bromley out of the equation, if AFC Wimbledon go up this year and carry on their good form, Leyton Orient carry on the incredible run they are on at the moment and we don't go up, it's not inconceivable we could be the lowest ranked club in London next season.
Think about that. It's incredible. Teams like Orient and Brentford that we always considered no threat lauding it above us whilst the likes of Palace, Fulham, Millwall and QPR that I always thought we were on a par with, if not bigger than in some circumstances, are now firmly established in leagues above us. Indeed, the first two - much as I hate to admit it - miles in front of us atm.
The further we fall, the more our support will crumble as young supporters coming through won't want to be associated with us. Time is not on our side and the SMT really should recognise this.
Great post.
And is the main concern I am trying to highlight. It's being underestimated how fast football moves now, compared to around 10 or so years ago.
I am very concerned about staying in this league. We have an ageing fan base, poor home turnouts, and little reason for neutrals to come watch us. Where we could be in 10 to 20 years could be sickening, it already makes me sick now.
As someone who has mentioned to me on twitter. Charlie Methven said our attendances are up, it's an outright lie. The Valley is bloody empty. They can count all the freebies, no shows etc and lie on the speaker phone about the attendances, but everyone there with a set of eyes can tell its no more than 11k at best most matchdays, less on Tuesday night's.
They are severely underestimating the task at hand.
I wish Donald Trump would buy the club, love him or hate him at least it wouldn't be boring!!!!!
Make Athletic Great Again. The future is bright the future is orange.
" Sorry CL Haters and losers but the Donald's IQ is one of the highest and you all know it. Please don't feel Stupid or insecure, it's not your fault."
"My father gave me a small loan of a million dollars"
"No dream is too big. No challenge is too great.
Nothing we want for our future is beyond our reach,but there's this small soccer team in London which want my help. Bobby Charlton Athletic and they want my business expertise and money. I had my people look at the costs involved and boy, they need Jesus Christ miracles not Donald Trump the best salesman and the best President, the US of A have ever had."
I watch these things out of curiosity but I’ve long accepted that I’m so cautious and cynical of executive presented speak that i don’t believe a single thing that’s said.
Methven’s slide was to show transparency but also to show the things under his (non-football) remit are going in the right direction. Everything is up, we’re doing great is the message.
But the devil is always in the detail that’s not shared, why was 2 seasons ago used as the comparator? Why were the category breakdowns different to those in the published accounts so they couldn’t be fact checked? With nearly half a season and potential playoffs ahead, what factors were built into the forcasted figures for this season that showed everything being up?
Methven is an assertive and convincing orator, on the face of it you more often than not nod along in agreement with pretty much everything he says as he speaks persuasively and based on what he asserts as ‘truth’. You just have to take stock at times and question the fullness of the truth.
For example, he made a big thing (mentioned at least twice) that ‘attendances were strongly up’. But everyone that has been every game this season knows that in no way are attendances strongly up, there was one freak game v Wrexham that distorted the average.
These things shouldn’t be treated too seriously. It’s good that the club are willing to do them as it does provide an element of public accountability but we’ll know when the club has finally turned the corner on the pitch when it stops being such a cautiously managed message exercise.
Sorry didn't notice you already mentioned the attendance thing.
'Strongly up'. Ffs, the place is a morgue. We are currently pound for pound one of the worst supported teams in this league when you consider stadium size and history etc. Arguably only Wigan are worse when you look at their ground. There's nothing exciting about us as a club anymore to neutrals or anyone that follows football.
They're completely glossing over the empty seats. I'm surprised more away fans don't mock us for it.
You could sell the finest cuisines in the world and have the most luxurious turnstiles in the modern game. Won't make sod all difference if we aren't good at football. All the rest is just distractions and noise.
I got the feeling that maybe two of these a year is too much, and so we had plenty of fillers about the immaculate professional structures wonderful values to try and justify it and community enterprises. The problem being 99% of fans only give a shit about what happens on the pitch. Interesting that Methven pretty much admitted that we can't compete with the women's team. 92 clubs and only 22 full time with one other League One club at our level. While top 4 paying out mens Championship wages.
Comments
There are plenty of examples of teams going up the leagues without spending silly money. Unless you’ve only been a fan since 2020 you’ll remember our last promotion for starters. I’ve already referenced Luton who went up the leagues by developing their existing players (some that they had in league 2 ended up being championship or even premiership players), selling when they got good offers and reinvesting the money smartly. We’ve not done a good job at it at all so far, but that’s clearly our plan and we even got the Luton manager for it
Just looking at last season Pompey and Oxford were hardly huge spenders, Plymouth got 100 points the season before that, Rotherham and Wycombe also in recent times. We’ve probably got bigger budgets than all of those teams so our budget really isn’t not enough to build a promotion winning side. Spending millions more on transfers isn’t the only way to do it. Developing players and being smart with recruitment is another way to progress a football club, it isn’t as easy but it can work if done correctly. I think we have the right manager to do it, we probably don’t have the right recruitment set up at the moment so that’s where we massively need to improve ahead of the summer
Portsmouth 23/24 spent €90k and brought in €0
Derby 23/24 spent €350k but brought in €2.88m
Oxford 23/24 spent €456k and brought in €0
(all figures from transfermarkt)
I haven't even had to go back very far to give 4 examples, 1 of which was purely on memory and the other 3 were last season!
The market is totally mad this season. Birmingham and Huddersfield have spent crazy amounts for L1 and Wycombe are now funding a better than expected campaign. Throw in the fact they won't be able to spend to the same levels next season (in L1 or the Championship) it means that teams are trying to spend the money now while they can't get punished
For instance, I keep hearing him banging on about our outstanding academy. But is it really that outstanding anymore?
The very best young talent in London and the south east will have lots of offers and choice. I would argue that in the unlikely event they are likely to choose Charlton as their starting point in a professional career it isn't too long for our neighbours up ,down and over the road to entice them away. It's happening and has been more and more recently. You only need take one look at the 'talent' we've seen lining up for the first team in recent seasons to see that particular gravy train is slowly running dry.
We're in a mess. I suppose you could applaud Methven for trying something. Not sure there were too many more gigs in town offering to finance a near £10 million annual loss?
Airman would probably have something to say about that, but given the clusterfu*k circumstances we find ourselves in I'm really not convinced there were many more groups interested in dipping a toe in.
JCH, wanted by a few on here, hasn't worked out at Rotherham. Waste of money for them. Results improved once he was dropped, with fans also wanting him out of the team. Sound familiar to any strikers here who cost money?
Do you need any less luck getting bought in players to become part of a successful team than promoting promising home grown talent into it given decent coaching?
Whilst our recruitment lets us down, the same scrutiny should go on the coaching set up. Better coaching lessens the element of luck all round.
We crave stability, but never seem to have the right balance to make that an option. I guess it does take a while before you have a settled group that just needs the odd tweak to transform it into a promotion contender.
Southampton (granted lost their way a bit but im sure we'd all swap), Brentford and Brighton 3 clubs that went and revamped their recruitment and coaching set ups. It's those foundations that mean they can spunk the cost of our club on a single player and compete in the top two divisions now.
Far from "Just chuck dosh at players"
I said 10th before the season started and unfortunately I don't think I'll be far off.
Or could a cheeky protest against the SMT hasten the owners into a change?
However I think it was more due to them wanting all 4 of the staff on and they can't all fit in the studio at The Valley, rather than a falling out.
Found the whole event bizarre and as a poiitbr learning exercise it achieved nothing
But if I had, I would have left this one point for the SMT to think about.
Leave Bromley out of the equation, if AFC Wimbledon go up this year and carry on their good form, Leyton Orient carry on the incredible run they are on at the moment and we don't go up, it's not inconceivable we could be the lowest ranked club in London next season.
Think about that. It's incredible. Teams like Orient and Brentford that we always considered no threat lauding it above us whilst the likes of Palace, Fulham, Millwall and QPR that I always thought we were on a par with, if not bigger than in some circumstances, are now firmly established in leagues above us. Indeed, the first two - much as I hate to admit it - miles in front of us atm.
The further we fall, the more our support will crumble as young supporters coming through won't want to be associated with us. Time is not on our side and the SMT really should recognise this.
The best you can do with these things is not to piss the fans off. This is where fans will look for clues that all is well and the SMT failed with that. The body language between the interviewees was awful at both locations and the answers to some, let's face it, nondescript questions came across as vacuus. Yes there was some encouragement that some, relatively minor, stadium issues are being looked at but that's not really what is of importance to most of us.
I most want answers to two things - what do they view as the chances of us getting to the play offs this season? Of course the answer will be 'good' but then I would like some gravitas in their answers as to why the chances are good.
Secondly, if we miss out on promotion this term how committed are our owners to further investment? Of course the answer will be that 'it's a long term commitment' but, again, comfort is sought in understanding the detail as to why the SMT are convinced of this long term investment.
Sadly, the whole thing felt a bit of a whitewash.
Another adage from out grandparents' times...
" More mouth than trousers ".
Or in CM's case " More mouth than pink trousers ".
Just take the floodlight issue.
"The Operations team are getting the engineers to go up there, we think there are one or two different causes between the different bulbs and systems".
It sounds to me like he's just put it on his to do list.
it’s entirely possible the substantive owners will prove to be a good thing and it appears the agent Jon Smith had at least as much to do with them arriving as Methven.
The club was so badly managed under RD and TS that it was always going to be possible to make modest incremental improvements in revenue, after inflation, but not transformational ones. But the shitshow made this difficult for people distant from the situation to evaluate and opened the space for large exaggeration about what was achievable. I’m not convinced that once you take the easy wins the improvement will continue (and we need to see 23/24 before accepting even what we’re being told).
if you look at Charlie’s net figures for retail, the improvement will be real but the total benefit is trivial in terms of the whole business. This has always been the case with retail and it’s indicative of some of the fundamental challenges of CAFC as a business. Retail profit wasn’t just rubbish because Castore were hopeless, it’s because the club as a business has limited commercial capacity. You can only really hope to change that in the PL or at the top of the Championship, and that will come at a price.
Losing circa £10m a year (before transfers) to sit in L1 is a mug’s game and if the football performance does not match its resourcing over time you have to look at the competence of the decision makers.
At some point, if you don't spend millions, you end up back here. That's what happened to us and that's what will happen to all of them.
You will need to spend millions eventually and show some ambition. Of all the teams you've mentioned, one has already come back down in Wycombe, soon to be another in Plymouth, the others will probably as well if they don't spend. Then you have the likes of Rotherham, Wigan, Burton, Peterborough and Christ knows how many other examples of getting promoted 'sensibly' and coming right back down.
It is all about money, or getting very, very lucky. Always has been, always will be. Convince yourselves otherwise till your hearts content, makes no difference to me.
To get to the premier league and stay there you obviously need huge investment. But we are talking about trying to get to the championship, at which point we are much more likely to attract the kind of ownership or additional investment that you want. We spend more in league 1 than all those sensible teams did, if they can get promoted on their budgets then so can we. And we spend more than them so have more chance at staying up and continuing to progress if we do things right, and I think we’ve got the right manager to do that
Wigan is also the exact example of not being sensible. They spent way too much money on wages to get out of league 1, and it ended up putting them in serious difficulty financially. Much rather be sensible than at higher risk of an owner pulling the plug after spending too much
And is the main concern I am trying to highlight. It's being underestimated how fast football moves now, compared to around 10 or so years ago.
I am very concerned about staying in this league. We have an ageing fan base, poor home turnouts, and little reason for neutrals to come watch us. Where we could be in 10 to 20 years could be sickening, it already makes me sick now.
As someone who has mentioned to me on twitter. Charlie Methven said our attendances are up, it's an outright lie. The Valley is bloody empty. They can count all the freebies, no shows etc and lie on the speaker phone about the attendances, but everyone there with a set of eyes can tell its no more than 11k at best most matchdays, less on Tuesday night's.
They are severely underestimating the task at hand.
Make Athletic Great Again.
The future is bright the future is orange.
" Sorry CL Haters and losers but the Donald's IQ is one of the highest and you all know it. Please don't feel Stupid or insecure, it's not your fault."
"My father gave me a small loan of a million dollars"
"No dream is too big. No challenge is too great.
Nothing we want for our future is beyond our reach,but
there's this small soccer team in London which want my help. Bobby Charlton Athletic and they want my business expertise and money. I had my people look at the costs involved and boy, they need Jesus Christ miracles not Donald Trump the best salesman and the best President, the US of A have ever had."
'Strongly up'. Ffs, the place is a morgue. We are currently pound for pound one of the worst supported teams in this league when you consider stadium size and history etc. Arguably only Wigan are worse when you look at their ground. There's nothing exciting about us as a club anymore to neutrals or anyone that follows football.
They're completely glossing over the empty seats. I'm surprised more away fans don't mock us for it.
You could sell the finest cuisines in the world and have the most luxurious turnstiles in the modern game. Won't make sod all difference if we aren't good at football. All the rest is just distractions and noise.
The problem being 99% of fans only give a shit about what happens on the pitch.
Interesting that Methven pretty much admitted that we can't compete with the women's team. 92 clubs and only 22 full time with one other League One club at our level. While top 4 paying out mens Championship wages.