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Tour de France 2024
Comments
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Astana tweet:RACE: @LeTourWe did it! @MarkCavendish with @ceesbol1995, @AlexeyLutsenko3 and Davide Ballerini finished inside the time cut! Well done, guys! What a great team!3
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Imagine they'd have left him long before the time limit if there was a genuine risk2
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I wonder how he does it?Leroy Ambrose said:I can't watch any more of this absolute charade0 -
*theyAlwaysneil said:
I wonder how he does it?Leroy Ambrose said:I can't watch any more of this absolute charade
Don't forget Vingegaard was disassembled lego a few weeks back, yet is putting out about 7w/kg on the regular - and him destroying van Aert in the TT last year will rank as the most ridiculously non-credible performance since a beaked up, glowing Ricco charged up the Aspin like he was going down it.
They're both glowing worse than Landis was when he had enough of Lance and decides to shove half a doctor's locked prescription cabinet into his arm and launch a solo attack from about 385km out.
Fucking ludicrous.2 -
So what medication are they managing to hide?Leroy Ambrose said:
*theyAlwaysneil said:
I wonder how he does it?Leroy Ambrose said:I can't watch any more of this absolute charade
Don't forget Vingegaard was disassembled lego a few weeks back, yet is putting out about 7w/kg on the regular - and him destroying van Aert in the TT last year will rank as the most ridiculously non-credible performance since a beaked up, glowing Ricco charged up the Aspin like he was going down it.
They're both glowing worse than Landis was when he had enough of Lance and decides to shove half a doctor's locked prescription cabinet into his arm and launch a solo attack from about 385km out.
Fucking ludicrous.Came across an intriguing article the other day about the use of carbon monoxide… dangerous but seems to have an impact.0 -
Either something that confers the same sort of benefits as EPO, or (more realistically) something that acts as a potent masking agent without being detectable.stonemuse said:
So what medication are they managing to hide?Leroy Ambrose said:
*theyAlwaysneil said:
I wonder how he does it?Leroy Ambrose said:I can't watch any more of this absolute charade
Don't forget Vingegaard was disassembled lego a few weeks back, yet is putting out about 7w/kg on the regular - and him destroying van Aert in the TT last year will rank as the most ridiculously non-credible performance since a beaked up, glowing Ricco charged up the Aspin like he was going down it.
They're both glowing worse than Landis was when he had enough of Lance and decides to shove half a doctor's locked prescription cabinet into his arm and launch a solo attack from about 385km out.
Fucking ludicrous.Came across an intriguing article the other day about the use of carbon monoxide… dangerous but seems to have an impact.
If not, then they're both doing Edgar and the UCI are aware of it but cant stop it because it'll destroy the sport. It's only in recent years that the UCI have been seen as anything other than ignorant at best and complicit at worse in doping. The McQuaid era in particular was a joke - and that's only 15 years ago.
It's simply not possible for the two of them to be this much better than everyone else paniagua.1 -
Am I correct in thinking some of the TDF times are up there with best every recorded? Strade Bianche he road away from Peloton with 81km's to go.Leroy Ambrose said:
Either something that confers the same sort of benefits as EPO, or (more realistically) something that acts as a potent masking agent without being detectable.stonemuse said:
So what medication are they managing to hide?Leroy Ambrose said:
*theyAlwaysneil said:
I wonder how he does it?Leroy Ambrose said:I can't watch any more of this absolute charade
Don't forget Vingegaard was disassembled lego a few weeks back, yet is putting out about 7w/kg on the regular - and him destroying van Aert in the TT last year will rank as the most ridiculously non-credible performance since a beaked up, glowing Ricco charged up the Aspin like he was going down it.
They're both glowing worse than Landis was when he had enough of Lance and decides to shove half a doctor's locked prescription cabinet into his arm and launch a solo attack from about 385km out.
Fucking ludicrous.Came across an intriguing article the other day about the use of carbon monoxide… dangerous but seems to have an impact.
If not, then they're both doing Edgar and the UCI are aware of it but cant stop it because it'll destroy the sport. It's only in recent years that the UCI have been seen as anything other than ignorant at best and complicit at worse in doping. The McQuaid era in particular was a joke - and that's only 15 years ago.
It's simply not possible for the two of them to be this much better than everyone else paniagua.0 -
They regularly annihilate records that were set when every rider in the peloton was glowing. As an example, yesterday Pogacar beat the previous kom on the Plateau de Beille, set by Pantani in the thermonuclear epo era by 3 minutes. That's on a 40 minute climb. Absolutely impossible numbers. Yes, the Strade Bianche attack was a particularly egregious example also.0
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Vingegaard best Pantani tooLeroy Ambrose said:They regularly annihilate records that were set when every rider in the peloton was glowing. As an example, yesterday Pogacar beat the previous kom on the Plateau de Beille, set by Pantani in the thermonuclear epo era by 3 minutes. That's on a 40 minute climb. Absolutely impossible numbers. Yes, the Strade Bianche attack was a particularly egregious example also.1 - Sponsored links:
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And Remco. I think either the whole peleton is doping or no one is. Whether true or not I try to believe the latter. The support riders are better, the tech is better, the training is better, the nutrition is better. I think there was always going to be a point where a generation would break through and smash records and then things plateau, I think that's where we are now. These guys have had all those benefits since they started taking riding seriously, makes a big difference.stonemuse said:
Vingegaard best Pantani tooLeroy Ambrose said:They regularly annihilate records that were set when every rider in the peloton was glowing. As an example, yesterday Pogacar beat the previous kom on the Plateau de Beille, set by Pantani in the thermonuclear epo era by 3 minutes. That's on a 40 minute climb. Absolutely impossible numbers. Yes, the Strade Bianche attack was a particularly egregious example also.2 -
Not been watching long?fenaddick said:
And Remco. I think either the whole peleton is doping or no one is. Whether true or not I try to believe the latter. The support riders are better, the tech is better, the training is better, the nutrition is better. I think there was always going to be a point where a generation would break through and smash records and then things plateau, I think that's where we are now. These guys have had all those benefits since they started taking riding seriously, makes a big difference.stonemuse said:
Vingegaard best Pantani tooLeroy Ambrose said:They regularly annihilate records that were set when every rider in the peloton was glowing. As an example, yesterday Pogacar beat the previous kom on the Plateau de Beille, set by Pantani in the thermonuclear epo era by 3 minutes. That's on a 40 minute climb. Absolutely impossible numbers. Yes, the Strade Bianche attack was a particularly egregious example also.
Seen this far too many times to believe it, sadly. I think the era from the end of Armstrong to Covid was clean (The Brian Cookson era, basically). Covid allowed riders to dope without any testing (look up how many tests were actually conducted by WADA over 18 months, and for some of the national anti-doping bodies it was even worse (ahem) Slovenia...)) and it's just sprung from there0 -
No I've been watching for long enough. Obviously WADA are pretty rubbish and that goes for all sport. I think (relatively) low level doping is rife in football too. I think the reality is that there's boundary pushing and line crossing but I don't think there's total circumnavigation of the rules. I suspect you're right that covid allowed them to work out how to do that even more effectively. Call me naive if you want but I think it's just a progression of what happened with TUE's in the mid 2010's. If you class that as clean, I think this era is just an extension of the same thing.Leroy Ambrose said:
Not been watching long?fenaddick said:
And Remco. I think either the whole peleton is doping or no one is. Whether true or not I try to believe the latter. The support riders are better, the tech is better, the training is better, the nutrition is better. I think there was always going to be a point where a generation would break through and smash records and then things plateau, I think that's where we are now. These guys have had all those benefits since they started taking riding seriously, makes a big difference.stonemuse said:
Vingegaard best Pantani tooLeroy Ambrose said:They regularly annihilate records that were set when every rider in the peloton was glowing. As an example, yesterday Pogacar beat the previous kom on the Plateau de Beille, set by Pantani in the thermonuclear epo era by 3 minutes. That's on a 40 minute climb. Absolutely impossible numbers. Yes, the Strade Bianche attack was a particularly egregious example also.
Seen this far too many times to believe it, sadly. I think the era from the end of Armstrong to Covid was clean (The Brian Cookson era, basically). Covid allowed riders to dope without any testing (look up how many tests were actually conducted by WADA over 18 months, and for some of the national anti-doping bodies it was even worse (ahem) Slovenia...)) and it's just sprung from there3 -
Ultimately, I like watching them ride. Would it be better if they were all 100% clean? Of course but you'll never get a fully clean peleton. The sad thing is that everytime someone breaks records in cycling this is the conversation the majority of the world has. When other athlete's break records this is a niche conversation. I totally understand it, but it is pretty heartbreaking.1
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Cavendish ends on 35-Stage wins then...0
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Ultimately it is professional sport and is big business. As a result some people will push the boundaries others will sail past them.fenaddick said:Ultimately, I like watching them ride. Would it be better if they were all 100% clean? Of course but you'll never get a fully clean peleton. The sad thing is that everytime someone breaks records in cycling this is the conversation the majority of the world has. When other athlete's break records this is a niche conversation. I totally understand it, but it is pretty heartbreaking.
It won’t be stopped as there is more money in doping that there is in stopping it.My only concern is always about how much information is given to competitors as to safety long and short term by taking things. Is informed consent a thing in professional sport?2 -
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Looking like a breakaway winner today but could be one of so many … I’m going for Simon Yates0
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And he has just tried to make a break from the main chasing group...1
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This has been a great stage0
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Very surprising0
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A tremendous finish for Carapaz, he'd certainly been there or thereabouts for a few stages. Mind you, I really thought that Simon Yates had it when he made his break.
The next few days are going to be quite intense there will be a few teams desperately trying to win a stage tomorrow in particular to try and rescue their Tour (not thinking of Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe, Lotto-Dstny, Grouparma-FDJ or Decathlon-AG2R in particular or anything)...0 -
Didn’t expect that, thought Kwiato had it1
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Another Pogacar victory, Vingegaard looks like he was devastated at the end, being hugged after losing more time in the final climb.
Will Arnaud Demare beat the cut off?1 -
Really hoped Yates would get it but no comparison unfortunately
Cutoff will be interesting0 -
Cav made it2
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One more day for him to survive, then he can enjoy his victory lap into Nice - Be nice if they changed the order, and made him one of the last to finish, rather than one of the first.stonemuse said:Cav made it1 -
Football's been full of doping for as long as most other sports and not low level. Post WWII from the 54 German team banging WWII Amphetamines/Meth, to the great Juve team of the mid 90s on EPO - proven by extensive evidence and Italian judicial investigation into Juve's doctor - later rejected by the Italian Supreme Court which did not refute the Balance of Probability finding by the lower court that Conte and Tacchinardi 'practically certain' to have taken EPO and very probable 7 others including Del Pierro did.fenaddick said:
No I've been watching for long enough. Obviously WADA are pretty rubbish and that goes for all sport. I think (relatively) low level doping is rife in football too. I think the reality is that there's boundary pushing and line crossing but I don't think there's total circumnavigation of the rules. I suspect you're right that covid allowed them to work out how to do that even more effectively. Call me naive if you want but I think it's just a progression of what happened with TUE's in the mid 2010's. If you class that as clean, I think this era is just an extension of the same thing.Leroy Ambrose said:
Not been watching long?fenaddick said:
And Remco. I think either the whole peleton is doping or no one is. Whether true or not I try to believe the latter. The support riders are better, the tech is better, the training is better, the nutrition is better. I think there was always going to be a point where a generation would break through and smash records and then things plateau, I think that's where we are now. These guys have had all those benefits since they started taking riding seriously, makes a big difference.stonemuse said:
Vingegaard best Pantani tooLeroy Ambrose said:They regularly annihilate records that were set when every rider in the peloton was glowing. As an example, yesterday Pogacar beat the previous kom on the Plateau de Beille, set by Pantani in the thermonuclear epo era by 3 minutes. That's on a 40 minute climb. Absolutely impossible numbers. Yes, the Strade Bianche attack was a particularly egregious example also.
Seen this far too many times to believe it, sadly. I think the era from the end of Armstrong to Covid was clean (The Brian Cookson era, basically). Covid allowed riders to dope without any testing (look up how many tests were actually conducted by WADA over 18 months, and for some of the national anti-doping bodies it was even worse (ahem) Slovenia...)) and it's just sprung from there
It's absolutely fanciful to believe that with the huge amount of cash in football that it isn't rife in football and stopped in '96 but carried on in other sports. It's very likely that the top 3 teams in Spain in the early noughties had at least tacit acceptance of blood doping programmes. And again it's fanciful to believe that if Russian athletes were circumventing doping controls 2008-2014 that US/British athletes and top cyclists weren't.
I think the new era in cycling came to the fore in 2018/2019. The Fugalsang and Alaphillipe Classics dominance bled into the Grand Tours. Alaphillipe climbed in the '19 Tour at times like a sprinter at 1500m-2000m, not disimilar to how Jalabert most unlikely turned himself into a GC rider in the 90s.1
