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Greg Docherty
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Galbraith would have been brilliant, but he was also far too good a player for us to be able to sign him as a newly promoted team.Chunes said:Our next evolution as a team will be getting a midfielder who can help us progress the ball. Gailbraith would likely have been a true transformational signing in that sense - and he didn't cost the earth, either.
I am pretty cool on our current midfield pairing and I recognise that goes against the tide. They both work hard and they want to win football matches, which does go a long way. It's just a matter of what else you want from your midfield at this level.
Docherty looks better in the Championship because we have less of the ball. Last year he was expected to do more in possession against teams that sat back, and that's not really in his game. For Coventry, he plays a simple game very well. But in this division, while his duel stats are improving, he's still only won 25% of his tackles, which is one of the lowest rates in the league. Still a long way to go, so hopefully that can improve. He could also work on improving his passing range.
At Luton, NJ had Dewsbury-Hall, who is a progressive player, alongside Ruddock-Mpanzu, who was much more physical than Coventry. I'd expect NJ to look to upgrade in terms of ability and power in the medium term.Stay up comfortably this season and we will be seen as a safer bet and be able to compete for that level of player3 -
I haven't said our midfield don't have an engine/stamina, just that they don't along with being quality on the ball. We chase shadows in the midfield mostly currently.letthegoodtimesroll said:
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughableBraziliance said:All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
I am not excluding Coventry, I just think Coventry is the better of the two in terms of longevity and ceiling.Henry Irving said:
But why is that only an issue for Docherty but not Coventry?Scoham said:
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.letthegoodtimesroll said:
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughableBraziliance said:All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
Coventry hasn't really impressed at all so far. Isn't anywhere near as successful in his defensive work, and barely see him with the ball. I know we aren't really a passing team, but you'd expect us to look a bit more measured in midfield.
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Quite an extreme example bringing up two of the best box to box English central midfielders in the last two decades.CaptainRobbo said:
Like a Steven Gerrard or Scott Parker type, easy to find for 2 or 3 million quid aren't they?Scoham said:
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.letthegoodtimesroll said:
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughableBraziliance said:All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
Consolidate this year and build again in the summer .
Joe Aribo could do it all and he was with us and been a Championship player, same as Josh Cullen.
There are plenty of midfielders who can run about a lot but also show a bit of quality.
I'll never criticise Docherty for his workrates, he is a proper athlete and the fittest player in the squad. Just think he lacks a lot in quality, but that isn't just him, no one has showed much assertiveness in midfield for me so far this season. Definitely an area in the pitch we need to improve on in the near future.
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Coventry got man of the match against Leicester didn't he?Braziliance said:
I haven't said our midfield don't have an engine/stamina, just that they don't along with being quality on the ball. We chase shadows in the midfield mostly currently.letthegoodtimesroll said:
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughableBraziliance said:All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
I am not excluding Coventry, I just think Coventry is the better of the two in terms of longevity and ceiling.Henry Irving said:
But why is that only an issue for Docherty but not Coventry?Scoham said:
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.letthegoodtimesroll said:
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughableBraziliance said:All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
Coventry hasn't really impressed at all so far. Isn't anywhere near as successful in his defensive work, and barely see him with the ball. I know we aren't really a passing team, but you'd expect us to look a bit more measured in midfield.1 -
Braziliance said:
Quite an extreme example bringing up two of the best box to box English central midfielders in the last two decades.CaptainRobbo said:
Like a Steven Gerrard or Scott Parker type, easy to find for 2 or 3 million quid aren't they?Scoham said:
That’s not what he’s saying, he’s saying how good the midfield would be if they were also good in possession, in addition to the engine and defensive strengths we currently have there.letthegoodtimesroll said:
If you play a pressing game then the midfield can get bypassed in an instant by one long forward pass or crossball. Expecting them to be everywhere at all times is delusional so apart from QPR we’ve kept it pretty tight at the back which always had to be the priority and we’ve created lots of chances upfront which is where everyone needs to be just a bit more clinical. Suggesting our midfield doesn’t have an engine is laughableBraziliance said:All I think is imagine how good we could look if we had a central midfield that had an engine, could contain the ball and pick a pass.
Consolidate this year and build again in the summer .
Joe Aribo could do it all and he was with us and been a Championship player, same as Josh Cullen.
There are plenty of midfielders who can run about a lot but also show a bit of quality.
I'll never criticise Docherty for his workrates, he is a proper athlete and the fittest player in the squad. Just think he lacks a lot in quality, but that isn't just him, no one has showed much assertiveness in midfield for me so far this season. Definitely an area in the pitch we need to improve on in the near future.
Maybe did go to extremes of type there. As you say with Aribo and Cullen, they can be found but still can be hard to unearth a diamond.
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The criticism Doc gets from our fanbase goes to prove what I have always believed, that most people dont know sh*t about football.
He is extremley under-rated, his organisation of the midfield is a massive contributing factor for why we improved so much defensively, he is so disciplined in knowing when to go forward and back. People just look at him and think "hE doEsnT do Enuff TaCKLes and ShoT Enuff, Innit" but football especially midfield is so much more than that.
In previous seasons our defence was so fragile and whilst a large part of that was because we had pretty poor defenders (Inniss, Hector, thomas et al) it was also because our structure as a defensive unit was soooo poor, we were regularly cut through with straight passes which isnt acceptable at league one level, that was even with the industrious Dobbo in midfield. Since Doc has came in we look so much better as a defensive structure and that is due to his unnoticed work and its unnoticed as most fans dont appreciate what he does.
Yes id love to see him score a few more but not at the expense of shipping silly goals like we did when we had the previous mentioned defenders. Lets put a bit more respect on Docs name.10 -
Great post, 100% agree. Let’s say you put Knibbs in the team for Doc, Knibbs is great at winning the ball back, better on the ball and works really hard. But he still probably wouldn’t be better there, because Doc knows exactly where he should be at all times, and often is telling other people where they should be. The best thing about this team is how we can’t be broken down when we’ve got men behind the ball, and that is why Doc still plays and is still captainRadostanradical said:The criticism Doc gets from our fanbase goes to prove what I have always believed, that most people dont know sh*t about football.
He is extremley under-rated, his organisation of the midfield is a massive contributing factor for why we improved so much defensively, he is so disciplined in knowing when to go forward and back. People just look at him and think "hE doEsnT do Enuff TaCKLes and ShoT Enuff, Innit" but football especially midfield is so much more than that.
In previous seasons our defence was so fragile and whilst a large part of that was because we had pretty poor defenders (Inniss, Hector, thomas et al) it was also because our structure as a defensive unit was soooo poor, we were regularly cut through with straight passes which isnt acceptable at league one level, that was even with the industrious Dobbo in midfield. Since Doc has came in we look so much better as a defensive structure and that is due to his unnoticed work and its unnoticed as most fans dont appreciate what he does.
Yes id love to see him score a few more but not at the expense of shipping silly goals like we did when we had the previous mentioned defenders. Let’s put a bit more respect on Docs name.
This is also the big difference Jones has made. Neither Holden or Appleton could coach out of possession, we were absolutely terrible without the ball. Jackson is the only manager we’ve had in recent times with even half the ability Jones has at coaching a team without the ball3 -
NabySarr said:
Great post, 100% agree. Let’s say you put Knibbs in the team for Doc, Knibbs is great at winning the ball back, better on the ball and works really hard. But he still probably wouldn’t be better there, because Doc knows exactly where he should be at all times, and often is telling other people where they should be. The best thing about this team is how we can’t be broken down when we’ve got men behind the ball, and that is why Doc still plays and is still captainRadostanradical said:The criticism Doc gets from our fanbase goes to prove what I have always believed, that most people dont know sh*t about football.
He is extremley under-rated, his organisation of the midfield is a massive contributing factor for why we improved so much defensively, he is so disciplined in knowing when to go forward and back. People just look at him and think "hE doEsnT do Enuff TaCKLes and ShoT Enuff, Innit" but football especially midfield is so much more than that.
In previous seasons our defence was so fragile and whilst a large part of that was because we had pretty poor defenders (Inniss, Hector, thomas et al) it was also because our structure as a defensive unit was soooo poor, we were regularly cut through with straight passes which isnt acceptable at league one level, that was even with the industrious Dobbo in midfield. Since Doc has came in we look so much better as a defensive structure and that is due to his unnoticed work and its unnoticed as most fans dont appreciate what he does.
Yes id love to see him score a few more but not at the expense of shipping silly goals like we did when we had the previous mentioned defenders. Let’s put a bit more respect on Docs name.
This is also the big difference Jones has made. Neither Holden or Appleton could coach out of possession, we were absolutely terrible without the ball. Jackson is the only manager we’ve had in recent times with even half the ability Jones has at coaching a team without the ballDon’t want to take this thread off-topic, but just to set the record straight: Nathan Jones himself dismissed the idea that coaching was the root of our defensive problems. As I recall, I think his words were something like: “Three managers can’t be that bad at coaching the defensive side. It’s personnel.” And he said this a few times.Some thought our CBs would suddenly look better with more combative midfielders in front of them. But then Jones came in and lined up Coventry, Dobson and Bakinson in front of them, which is as combative as it gets, and the centre-backs were still poor, and we still shipped more than a goal a game. There were definitely other issues too, like having the worst-performing wingers (defensively) in the league. But as NJ said, it was personnel I'm not sure we have yet come to terms with just how bad a few of our CBs were at that time.
On Doc, I'm not sure his qualities are invisible to everyone else, and his fans are seeing things others don't. He organises, he has positional discipline, he is fantastic on the press, he motivates the team, and he generally doesn't leave holes (some might argue one iffy moment at QPR), plus he is a top bloke to match.0 -
Docherty has the problem that the things he's good at are mostly things that you can't measure or evaluate statistically. If you look at things like xG or key passes or what have you he's probably not going to score highly.
He doesn't even score super highly on things like tackles or interceptions but what he does do is be in the right place to hassle someone and stop them being able to pick a pass in the first place, or be in the right place to cut a potential pass off and make it unavailable for the opposition.
I would also imagine that he's s popular guy with the squad as well which is no doubt very useful with Jones' high intensity training style.4 -
Very underrated. Box to box midfielders don't need to always be pitching up with goals but to have the engine to get back defend and then help on the attack. He does a lot off the ball that helps our game and doesn't get the recognition he deserves.0
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Nice to see the Charlton TV crew giving Doc well deserved praise
https://x.com/CAFCofficial/status/19759467898039505894 -
One of our best players this season so deserves the praise. I put in the summer transfer thread that I thought he’d be better in the championship but he’s playing even better than I expected at the momentfenaddick said:Nice to see the Charlton TV crew giving Doc well deserved praise
https://x.com/CAFCofficial/status/19759467898039505896 -
It’s amazing how good our players are off the ball in comparison to on it can see why Jones likes us to have minimal amount of possession. Docherty struggles to break down an Exeter backline but can suddenly help pocket a 15M gustavo Hamer football is a funny game1
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He's had a couple of good games, but it's not much different to what Pratley did for us, which ultimately wasn't enough to keep us up.
You look at other defensively renowned midfielders and they're a lot better/more comfortable on the ball, Lewis Travis as an example, and Ben Whiteman very recently, complete different level.
He's doing better than expected, that's a credit to his engine, on an athletic level he's incredible and I could never fault his efforts.
Still think in the long run playing with 5 defenders, you can't have him and Coventry in the midfield if we want to progress. It's far too defensive and we surrender far too much attacking chances as a result.3 -
He’s got 2 assists already this season. He does more than just defendBraziliance said:He's had a couple of good games, but it's not much different to what Pratley did for us, which ultimately wasn't enough to keep us up.
You look at other defensively renowned midfielders and they're a lot better/more comfortable on the ball, Lewis Travis as an example, and Ben Whiteman very recently, complete different level.
He's doing better than expected, that's a credit to his engine, on an athletic level he's incredible and I could never fault his efforts.
Still think in the long run playing with 5 defenders, you can't have him and Coventry in the midfield if we want to progress. It's far too defensive and we surrender far too much attacking chances as a result.5 -
He’s not just a sitting midfielder whose job is to protect the back 3, he gets up and down the pitch and actually spends more time in the oppositions half than ours. He maybe doesn’t have the creativity that some Championship midfielders do but that isn’t his job or the system we utilise anyway3 -
Those 2 assists were passes to 2 very well taken goals. Obviously you can't break down every assist like that if you hit double figures plus, as then it goes beyond the realms of fortune, but right now he's given the ball to Bree twice who has scored with individual efforts, not on a plate / high expected finishes. Until he slices through a striker on goal who has an easy finish, I am not viewing it as creativity, more just giving the ball to a player who is then scoring an unlikely goal.NabySarr said:
He’s got 2 assists already this season. He does more than just defendBraziliance said:He's had a couple of good games, but it's not much different to what Pratley did for us, which ultimately wasn't enough to keep us up.
You look at other defensively renowned midfielders and they're a lot better/more comfortable on the ball, Lewis Travis as an example, and Ben Whiteman very recently, complete different level.
He's doing better than expected, that's a credit to his engine, on an athletic level he's incredible and I could never fault his efforts.
Still think in the long run playing with 5 defenders, you can't have him and Coventry in the midfield if we want to progress. It's far too defensive and we surrender far too much attacking chances as a result.
If he ends the season on 10-15 assists then fair enough, but if I was a betting man, I would say he will manage less than 6, he only managed 2 all last season, and I don't see him improving on that significantly, happy if he does though.
He is far from a creative midfielder, and neither is Coventry.1 -
The players heat maps I compared him to.fenaddick said:
He’s not just a sitting midfielder whose job is to protect the back 3, he gets up and down the pitch and actually spends more time in the oppositions half than ours. He maybe doesn’t have the creativity that some Championship midfielders do but that isn’t his job or the system we utilise anyway
Greg Dochery:
Lewis Travis:
Ben Whiteman:
They also both have 10% higher pass accuracy stats than him or more, as well as being more mobile, and these are mid-table (on paper) defensive mids.
The midfield is almost certainly an area we need improving on, whether that's in January or next summer. If we want to progress it is likely we can't have Doch and Cov in midfield at this level, one of them has to go imo.0 -
3rd most chances created for us this season. 11th most among championship central midfielders. That’s what Docherty does, he wins the ball back, drives us up the pitch and plays simple passes. He’s not even in the team to be creative but he’s doing a decent job anyway so farBraziliance said:
Those 2 assists were passes to 2 very well taken goals. Obviously you can't break down every assist like that if you hit double figures plus, as then it goes beyond the realms of fortune, but right now he's given the ball to Bree twice who has scored with individual efforts, not on a plate / high expected finishes. Until he slices through a striker on goal who has an easy finish, I am not viewing it as creativity, more just giving the ball to a player who is then scoring an unlikely goal.NabySarr said:
He’s got 2 assists already this season. He does more than just defendBraziliance said:He's had a couple of good games, but it's not much different to what Pratley did for us, which ultimately wasn't enough to keep us up.
You look at other defensively renowned midfielders and they're a lot better/more comfortable on the ball, Lewis Travis as an example, and Ben Whiteman very recently, complete different level.
He's doing better than expected, that's a credit to his engine, on an athletic level he's incredible and I could never fault his efforts.
Still think in the long run playing with 5 defenders, you can't have him and Coventry in the midfield if we want to progress. It's far too defensive and we surrender far too much attacking chances as a result.
If he ends the season on 10-15 assists then fair enough, but if I was a betting man, I would say he will manage less than 6, he only managed 2 all last season, and I don't see him improving on that significantly, happy if he does though.
He is far from a creative midfielder, and neither is Coventry.
You wrote him off in the summer, but he’s been one of our best players this season4 -
I'm all for criticising players when they're not playing well. But if they start playing well and you're still criticising them, it's less about the player and more about being right.
I thought Doch was poor at the start of the season and looked like he'd struggle. But he's been excellent in the last handful of games and deserves credit for that.10 - Sponsored links:
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That's my concern, that he is up there for creating chances in our team, when he was deemed surplus to requirements by Hull and all their fans largely had that view as well. He could have improved since then tbf, but we will only know when the season is done, not 9 games.NabySarr said:
3rd most chances created for us this season. 11th most among championship central midfielders. That’s what Docherty does, he wins the ball back, drives us up the pitch and plays simple passes. He’s not even in the team to be creative but he’s doing a decent job anyway so farBraziliance said:
Those 2 assists were passes to 2 very well taken goals. Obviously you can't break down every assist like that if you hit double figures plus, as then it goes beyond the realms of fortune, but right now he's given the ball to Bree twice who has scored with individual efforts, not on a plate / high expected finishes. Until he slices through a striker on goal who has an easy finish, I am not viewing it as creativity, more just giving the ball to a player who is then scoring an unlikely goal.NabySarr said:
He’s got 2 assists already this season. He does more than just defendBraziliance said:He's had a couple of good games, but it's not much different to what Pratley did for us, which ultimately wasn't enough to keep us up.
You look at other defensively renowned midfielders and they're a lot better/more comfortable on the ball, Lewis Travis as an example, and Ben Whiteman very recently, complete different level.
He's doing better than expected, that's a credit to his engine, on an athletic level he's incredible and I could never fault his efforts.
Still think in the long run playing with 5 defenders, you can't have him and Coventry in the midfield if we want to progress. It's far too defensive and we surrender far too much attacking chances as a result.
If he ends the season on 10-15 assists then fair enough, but if I was a betting man, I would say he will manage less than 6, he only managed 2 all last season, and I don't see him improving on that significantly, happy if he does though.
He is far from a creative midfielder, and neither is Coventry.
You wrote him off in the summer, but he’s been one of our best players this season
I don't see how he's 11th when he is on 0 for big chances created, unless a chance qualified is just giving the teammate the ball outside your own half?
He has been one of our better performers defensively, I won't deny that, he's been better than Coventry in terms of impact, but I'll always be biased towards Coventry as I think his ceiling is higher, as he is much better on the ball and reads the game better.
At some point you need to upgrade in areas in the pitch and I still think it's that midfield.2 -
Just to answer your Q the definition of a chance created is “ The final pass leading to the recipient having an attempt at goal.”. I assume that includes dead ball deliveries too so it’s impressive he’s that high up.Braziliance said:
That's my concern, that he is up there for creating chances in our team, when he was deemed surplus to requirements by Hull and all their fans largely had that view as well. He could have improved since then tbf, but we will only know when the season is done, not 9 games.NabySarr said:
3rd most chances created for us this season. 11th most among championship central midfielders. That’s what Docherty does, he wins the ball back, drives us up the pitch and plays simple passes. He’s not even in the team to be creative but he’s doing a decent job anyway so farBraziliance said:
Those 2 assists were passes to 2 very well taken goals. Obviously you can't break down every assist like that if you hit double figures plus, as then it goes beyond the realms of fortune, but right now he's given the ball to Bree twice who has scored with individual efforts, not on a plate / high expected finishes. Until he slices through a striker on goal who has an easy finish, I am not viewing it as creativity, more just giving the ball to a player who is then scoring an unlikely goal.NabySarr said:
He’s got 2 assists already this season. He does more than just defendBraziliance said:He's had a couple of good games, but it's not much different to what Pratley did for us, which ultimately wasn't enough to keep us up.
You look at other defensively renowned midfielders and they're a lot better/more comfortable on the ball, Lewis Travis as an example, and Ben Whiteman very recently, complete different level.
He's doing better than expected, that's a credit to his engine, on an athletic level he's incredible and I could never fault his efforts.
Still think in the long run playing with 5 defenders, you can't have him and Coventry in the midfield if we want to progress. It's far too defensive and we surrender far too much attacking chances as a result.
If he ends the season on 10-15 assists then fair enough, but if I was a betting man, I would say he will manage less than 6, he only managed 2 all last season, and I don't see him improving on that significantly, happy if he does though.
He is far from a creative midfielder, and neither is Coventry.
You wrote him off in the summer, but he’s been one of our best players this season
I don't see how he's 11th when he is on 0 for big chances created, unless a chance qualified is just giving the teammate the ball outside your own half?
He has been one of our better performers defensively, I won't deny that, he's been better than Coventry in terms of impact, but I'll always be biased towards Coventry as I think his ceiling is higher, as he is much better on the ball and reads the game better.
At some point you need to upgrade in areas in the pitch and I still think it's that midfield.
No one has ever said we won’t need to upgrade the midfield at some point but it’s an area that is working ok so far. In terms of big chances created Coventry is 11th for midfielders, goals per 90 and shots on target per 90 we have 2 players in the top 10 (partly down to Knibbs lack of game time to be fair). But Nathan Jones always builds from a defensive base and lets the attacking things come after, it’ll get there but for where we are now the midfield is doing just fine1 -
Not really as I said Kelman and Knibbs would be guaranteed high flyers so far here and neither of them have impressed me with what they've shown so far.Chunes said:I'm all for criticising players when they're not playing well. But if they start playing well and you're still criticising them, it's less about the player and more about being right.
I thought Doch was poor at the start of the season and looked like he'd struggle. But he's been excellent in the last handful of games and deserves credit for that.
I've just said as well he has been one of our better performers, I've given him his credit that he has an engine.
Just believe at some point we need to improve is all, and the position he plays is one of the biggest areas.0 -
I am more worried that we will regress than progress in regards to Nathan Jones being a slow starter.fenaddick said:
Just to answer your Q the definition of a chance created is “ The final pass leading to the recipient having an attempt at goal.”. I assume that includes dead ball deliveries too so it’s impressive he’s that high up.Braziliance said:
That's my concern, that he is up there for creating chances in our team, when he was deemed surplus to requirements by Hull and all their fans largely had that view as well. He could have improved since then tbf, but we will only know when the season is done, not 9 games.NabySarr said:
3rd most chances created for us this season. 11th most among championship central midfielders. That’s what Docherty does, he wins the ball back, drives us up the pitch and plays simple passes. He’s not even in the team to be creative but he’s doing a decent job anyway so farBraziliance said:
Those 2 assists were passes to 2 very well taken goals. Obviously you can't break down every assist like that if you hit double figures plus, as then it goes beyond the realms of fortune, but right now he's given the ball to Bree twice who has scored with individual efforts, not on a plate / high expected finishes. Until he slices through a striker on goal who has an easy finish, I am not viewing it as creativity, more just giving the ball to a player who is then scoring an unlikely goal.NabySarr said:
He’s got 2 assists already this season. He does more than just defendBraziliance said:He's had a couple of good games, but it's not much different to what Pratley did for us, which ultimately wasn't enough to keep us up.
You look at other defensively renowned midfielders and they're a lot better/more comfortable on the ball, Lewis Travis as an example, and Ben Whiteman very recently, complete different level.
He's doing better than expected, that's a credit to his engine, on an athletic level he's incredible and I could never fault his efforts.
Still think in the long run playing with 5 defenders, you can't have him and Coventry in the midfield if we want to progress. It's far too defensive and we surrender far too much attacking chances as a result.
If he ends the season on 10-15 assists then fair enough, but if I was a betting man, I would say he will manage less than 6, he only managed 2 all last season, and I don't see him improving on that significantly, happy if he does though.
He is far from a creative midfielder, and neither is Coventry.
You wrote him off in the summer, but he’s been one of our best players this season
I don't see how he's 11th when he is on 0 for big chances created, unless a chance qualified is just giving the teammate the ball outside your own half?
He has been one of our better performers defensively, I won't deny that, he's been better than Coventry in terms of impact, but I'll always be biased towards Coventry as I think his ceiling is higher, as he is much better on the ball and reads the game better.
At some point you need to upgrade in areas in the pitch and I still think it's that midfield.
No one has ever said we won’t need to upgrade the midfield at some point but it’s an area that is working ok so far. In terms of big chances created Coventry is 11th for midfielders, goals per 90 and shots on target per 90 we have 2 players in the top 10 (partly down to Knibbs lack of game time to be fair). But Nathan Jones always builds from a defensive base and lets the attacking things come after, it’ll get there but for where we are now the midfield is doing just fine
I was wrong about that last season, despite always saying if we made play-offs we would win them, which is a view I actually hold in this league as well, we are a good team for that type of setting. I just think we have consistency issues in attack. 3 of our 8 goals have been belters, can't rely on that over the course of a season.
Just not sure if we have enough over the upcoming 37 games, because we simply just don't score enough. 3 of our 8 goals came in one game so you can break it down to 5 goals in 7 games.
Verging off topic now though.0 -
Isn't that pretty obvious though? All teams need to improve at some point if they want to progress.Braziliance said:
Not really as I said Kelman and Knibbs would be guaranteed high flyers so far here and neither of them have impressed me with what they've shown so far.Chunes said:I'm all for criticising players when they're not playing well. But if they start playing well and you're still criticising them, it's less about the player and more about being right.
I thought Doch was poor at the start of the season and looked like he'd struggle. But he's been excellent in the last handful of games and deserves credit for that.
I've just said as well he has been one of our better performers, I've given him his credit that he has an engine.
Just believe at some point we need to improve is all, and the position he plays is one of the biggest areas.6 -
I definitely agree we will need to improve in the middle if we are going to evolve as a team.Braziliance said:
Not really as I said Kelman and Knibbs would be guaranteed high flyers so far here and neither of them have impressed me with what they've shown so far.Chunes said:I'm all for criticising players when they're not playing well. But if they start playing well and you're still criticising them, it's less about the player and more about being right.
I thought Doch was poor at the start of the season and looked like he'd struggle. But he's been excellent in the last handful of games and deserves credit for that.
I've just said as well he has been one of our better performers, I've given him his credit that he has an engine.
Just believe at some point we need to improve is all, and the position he plays is one of the biggest areas.1 -
I’d go further. Might be controversial but I’d say we need to improve every position on the pitch if we want to achieve our dream of winning the Champions League…Chunes said:
I definitely agree we will need to improve in the middle if we are going to evolve as a team.Braziliance said:
Not really as I said Kelman and Knibbs would be guaranteed high flyers so far here and neither of them have impressed me with what they've shown so far.Chunes said:I'm all for criticising players when they're not playing well. But if they start playing well and you're still criticising them, it's less about the player and more about being right.
I thought Doch was poor at the start of the season and looked like he'd struggle. But he's been excellent in the last handful of games and deserves credit for that.
I've just said as well he has been one of our better performers, I've given him his credit that he has an engine.
Just believe at some point we need to improve is all, and the position he plays is one of the biggest areas.5 -
I have no such dream.Callumcafc said:
I’d go further. Might be controversial but I’d say we need to improve every position on the pitch if we want to achieve our dream of winning the Champions League…Chunes said:
I definitely agree we will need to improve in the middle if we are going to evolve as a team.Braziliance said:
Not really as I said Kelman and Knibbs would be guaranteed high flyers so far here and neither of them have impressed me with what they've shown so far.Chunes said:I'm all for criticising players when they're not playing well. But if they start playing well and you're still criticising them, it's less about the player and more about being right.
I thought Doch was poor at the start of the season and looked like he'd struggle. But he's been excellent in the last handful of games and deserves credit for that.
I've just said as well he has been one of our better performers, I've given him his credit that he has an engine.
Just believe at some point we need to improve is all, and the position he plays is one of the biggest areas.0 -
Could say that a lot of posts on here are stating the obvious tbf.Talal said:
Isn't that pretty obvious though? All teams need to improve at some point if they want to progress.Braziliance said:
Not really as I said Kelman and Knibbs would be guaranteed high flyers so far here and neither of them have impressed me with what they've shown so far.Chunes said:I'm all for criticising players when they're not playing well. But if they start playing well and you're still criticising them, it's less about the player and more about being right.
I thought Doch was poor at the start of the season and looked like he'd struggle. But he's been excellent in the last handful of games and deserves credit for that.
I've just said as well he has been one of our better performers, I've given him his credit that he has an engine.
Just believe at some point we need to improve is all, and the position he plays is one of the biggest areas.
That is why I am trying to find a balance between not slandering players but being critical. I just want Charlton to be the best team possible within reason, all there is to it really.Chunes said:
I definitely agree we will need to improve in the middle if we are going to evolve as a team.Braziliance said:
Not really as I said Kelman and Knibbs would be guaranteed high flyers so far here and neither of them have impressed me with what they've shown so far.Chunes said:I'm all for criticising players when they're not playing well. But if they start playing well and you're still criticising them, it's less about the player and more about being right.
I thought Doch was poor at the start of the season and looked like he'd struggle. But he's been excellent in the last handful of games and deserves credit for that.
I've just said as well he has been one of our better performers, I've given him his credit that he has an engine.
Just believe at some point we need to improve is all, and the position he plays is one of the biggest areas.0
