Spain win 7 out of 7 in the 90 minutes + added time. England win 1 out of 7 in the 90 minutes + added time which included being in the poor group C.
Remember to reset your comments to 60 years of hurt for the next World cup.
Two - Serbia and Netherlands.
You are correct Neil, Watkins scored in the last minute of added time against the Dutch. It's been a long tournament.
And Spain needed 30 extra minutes for one of their victories so not technically 7/7 in 90 minutes and added time. Unless you want to give England the victory over Slovakia too…
That said in my life time England has reached 3 finals. The glorious 1966 World Cup final which we won and 2 Euros finals both of which we lost. Those 2 finals were under Gareth Southgate whom many want rid of.
Southgate knows how to reach a final and to win a tournament you have to reach the final.
I absolutely Love Gareth Southgate the Man. But how a football manager can ignore the complete inefficiency of Mainoo, Walker,Foden,Bellingham and Kane is unforgivable. The system needed to change when it was clear it wasn't working. He's making decent players look very very bad with his tactical shortcomings He will forever be remembered for this.
My only criticism comes just after we equalised. We were pushing forward, Spain were unsteady, Cole Palmer was buzzing and getting the fans to sing up, we got a throw and it went gradually backwards until Pickford booted it out aimlessly.
This was the point in the match where I went from believing we were going to nick it at the end, to thinking that we were going to let them get back to controlling the match.
Sure, we had the three consecutive headers opportunity after that but overall that's how it went. We should have punished them while they were shaky.
Another opportunity missed. I'm so sick of these 'years of hurt' . It was thirty - now it's f***ING double that.
Never ever is the answer. Southgate picks players on form and sticks them in anywhere. High risk against the likes of Slovenia and Slovakia.. Suicidal against the likes of Spain and France
That said in my life time England has reached 3 finals. The glorious 1966 World Cup final which we won and 2 Euros finals both of which we lost. Those 2 finals were under Gareth Southgate whom many want rid of.
Southgate knows how to reach a final and to win a tournament you have to reach the final.
There's a lot of nuance in it I think, despite people who will be in the "negative manager, all easy draws" or "we reached two finals" camps.
I think he's been very good on the man management, team spirit side, and far less good tactically.
Feels strange to say but I think we were actually better in the last World Cup (and probably just a bit unlucky go out despite being the better team v a good France side) than we were this tournament, bar the first half v Netherlands.
Southgate was very lucky Bellingham pulled out a bit of brilliance in the 95th minute or that Slovakia game would have been remembered as even worse than Iceland.
Felt a tournament too far, despite clawing our way to the final, we need fresh ideas.
I think he's been very good on the man management, team spirit side, and far less good tactically.
Spot on, and deserves plenty plenty credit for that. But who is next? English managers aren't very good, generally. Eddie Howe might be looking for work if Newcastle start badly. Maybe a job swap.
It’s never gonna be easy to play to the strengths of all of the talented players we have but I think it’s fair to say we played to the strengths of none of them. No excuse for Foden to be a non factor all tournament, Kane to have 1 touch in the box in a final. Bellingham though he flashed brilliance not being a dominant midfielder. I’ve got no idea who we go for personally don’t think there’s a clear cut option but it’s not gonna be Southgate.
The morning after and don't feel the frustration and disappointment from 4 years ago. This time, we were just beaten by a better side.
Of course, there were things we could have done better as a team and individuals (some players just didn't perform to the level we know they can). Would have liked us to test that Spanish defence a bit more, especially down Cucurella's side.
Being England manager isn’t the draw it once was. Seems to be much the same for all national jobs these days. You’re not going to get anyone leaving a club job for it, particularly at the top end of the Premier League. The options for “top managers” are pretty slim anyway if you add “English” to your search filter.
Going foreign would probably open up the options but we’ve tried that and, rightly or wrongly, it would alienate a good chunk of the fan base before a ball has even been kicked.
Someone like Graham Potter might be the best we can hope for. More likely if Lee Carsley gets promoted from the U21s. Not especially inspiring either way.
Best team won and barring a couple of spells we never really looked like winning it. We couldn't handle their press at all and I lost count of how many times we panicked and lost possession. They nullified Saka really well by doubling up.
On paper our squad easily matches theirs but too many of our big names didn't turn up. Bellingham also needs to leave the rolling around back in Madrid. Yes we got to another final but we've not done it by playing well and we were shown tonight how a good team plays.
Morning after the night before and after time to reflect it's fairly obvious we reached the final in spite of Southgate, not because of him. I can't for a single second believe that guys who play for the likes of City, Arsenal, Madrid, Bayern etc enjoy playing this way, and half the time they just look frustrated by it all.
His tactics were awful throughout the tournament and he got bailed out by a Bellingham wonder goal or we'd have been home 2 weeks ago and ridiculed.
Kane clearly carrying an injury and despite being captain should not have been starting the last 2 games. Trippier at left back did not work at all, but if you're going to play him there then at least play a natural left winger like Gordon who could've masked Trippier's deficiencies. To only give Gordon 4 minutes all tournament is a disgrace. Even last night when chasing the game and would've been up against a tired 32 year old at right back, he still didn't use him. The best comparison i saw was someone who said that if Southgate had Nico Williams, he'd be benched and we'd play Cucurella as a wing back. Palmer criminally underused. Every time he came on in games he did something so why wasn't he given longer? Compare that to Foden who despite some good moments didn't get a goal or an assist in 7 games.
Thank you for everything you've done Gareth but it's time to go. This squad of players deserve a manager with an attacking mindset, not someone who is going to hold them back with a safety first approach. The best squad in the tournament but not the best team.
Thought we had a chance, but not exactly a big shock seeing Spain win. The team of the tournament won.
We have as much attacking potential as Spain - Williams, Pedri, Yamal, Olmo, Foden, Bellingham, Saka, Palmer etc. they embrace that, we do not. Yes Southgate got us to successive Euro final's with a WC semi thrown in and has restored some belief in English football at the international level, but now its time to part ways and see if we can push on, develop and harness those flair players and get that final win.
Yes, we can look at poor stats, results and failures from managers before Southgate and point out his spectacular record of almost's but regardless, its still not working, no major tournament win.
A couple of weeks back the presenter of 'Wake Up To Money' commented that it would most likely be a safe investment if Gareth Southgate were a fund manager. He then posed the question, 'or would you rather gamble for a bigger return?'
It's as simple as we were beaten by the better team. Don't underestimate having a manager that can navigate the egos of individual players. We used to be a quarter final team at best and now we are reaching finals. Be careful what you wish for. Appointing the next manager is so important.
Best team won and barring a couple of spells we never really looked like winning it. We couldn't handle their press at all and I lost count of how many times we panicked and lost possession. They nullified Saka really well by doubling up.
On paper our squad easily matches theirs but too many of our big names didn't turn up. Bellingham also needs to leave the rolling around back in Madrid. Yes we got to another final but we've not done it by playing well and we were shown tonight how a good team plays.
For an England “star” I’ve probably seen much less of Bellingham at club level than any other as I only watch a bit of German football, but not loads, and haven’t seen any Spanish football last season.
Does he always spend so much time on the floor? It’s absolutely ridiculous, not sure if it’s a recent development?
I wonder if like before you couldn't play Lampard and Gerrard together, we have the same with Foden and Bellingham. They seem to want the same space and often Bellingham took it and nullified Foden. Still got to the final and maybe we've seen the end of some great players for us and start of some new exciting ones.
Being England manager isn’t the draw it once was. Seems to be much the same for all national jobs these days. You’re not going to get anyone leaving a club job for it, particularly at the top end of the Premier League. The options for “top managers” are pretty slim anyway if you add “English” to your search filter.
Going foreign would probably open up the options but we’ve tried that and, rightly or wrongly, it would alienate a good chunk of the fan base before a ball has even been kicked.
Someone like Graham Potter might be the best we can hope for. More likely if Lee Carsley gets promoted from the U21s. Not especially inspiring either way.
At a time when we're extending into finals the latter stages of competitions I think it would be quite a big draw right now, especially with some of the talent coming through.
I've been reflecting a bit on where our weaknesses were. I think the two holding midfielders need to do a better job, Rice's passing second half was woeful and Mainoo constantly was out of position mopping up for others that had broken ranks. Foden and Bellingham were either in eachothers way or ignoring eachother. But Kane's inability to move up top was our biggest nail in the coffin. Think we need to utilise 3-5-2 more often allowing Kane to have a partner up front or we focus on getting Watkins ready to own that position up front on his own.
On a sidenote though, fair play to the Spain manager de la Fuente, who has now completed a hat trick of winning the U19, U21 and senior Euro's. Also won the Nations league last year as well.
Best team won and barring a couple of spells we never really looked like winning it. We couldn't handle their press at all and I lost count of how many times we panicked and lost possession. They nullified Saka really well by doubling up.
On paper our squad easily matches theirs but too many of our big names didn't turn up. Bellingham also needs to leave the rolling around back in Madrid. Yes we got to another final but we've not done it by playing well and we were shown tonight how a good team plays.
For an England “star” I’ve probably seen much less of Bellingham at club level than any other as I only watch a bit of German football, but not loads, and haven’t seen any Spanish football last season.
Does he always spend so much time on the floor? It’s absolutely ridiculous, not sure if it’s a recent development?
It was pretty annoying, for sure. I don’t know if it’s a recent development either. I do get the impression that the really big names get protection in La Liga and he’s been the breakout star for Madrid this year and everyone’s been saying how good he is. Maybe it’s part of his game now. He was looking frustrated quite a lot when not being given fouls.
Looking at him in the Euros, it feels like that adulation has got in his head. I think in many ways it’s useful for a highly talented player to have an arrogant streak, but I really hope Bellingham has got some good advisers around him telling him to rein it back a bit. He speaks very well and he’s very mature for his age, but during this tournament he’s had an air of ‘Billy Big Bollocks’ about him, and I don’t think that’s helping.
On a sidenote though, fair play to the Spain manager de la Fuente, who has now completed a hat trick of winning the U19, U21 and senior Euro's. Also won the Nations league last year as well.
Bellingham going round hugging all the players and having a word after the defeat was pretty mature in my eyes and wasn’t any billy big bollocks it was genuine concern and care in my eyes , he’s just turned 21 and shows maturity beyond that most of the time
My only criticism comes just after we equalised. We were pushing forward, Spain were unsteady, Cole Palmer was buzzing and getting the fans to sing up, we got a throw and it went gradually backwards until Pickford booted it out aimlessly.
This was the point in the match where I went from believing we were going to nick it at the end, to thinking that we were going to let them get back to controlling the match.
Sure, we had the three consecutive headers opportunity after that but overall that's how it went. We should have punished them while they were shaky.
Another opportunity missed. I'm so sick of these 'years of hurt' . It was thirty - now it's f***ING double that.
It’s much better than failing to qualify, or getting knocked out in the group stages.
Sometimes you just have to accept that the best team won.
Proud of the team and to get to the final is a huge achievement.
Southgate will be gutted but his legacy should be reviewed objectively as getting England teams to finals and semis as par is remarkable.
Many managers of England, Netherlands, Italy, Portugal etc have had remarkable talent at their disposal and failed so it's a little simplistic to say having great players automatically warrants success.
Proud of England and we'll do it some day.
On to Charlton and look forward to the World Cup after 60 years of hurt.
Comments
That said in my life time England has reached 3 finals. The glorious 1966 World Cup final which we won and 2 Euros finals both of which we lost. Those 2 finals were under Gareth Southgate whom many want rid of.
Southgate knows how to reach a final and to win a tournament you have to reach the final.
But how a football manager can ignore the complete inefficiency of Mainoo, Walker,Foden,Bellingham and Kane is unforgivable.
The system needed to change when it was clear it wasn't working. He's making decent players look very very bad with his tactical shortcomings
He will forever be remembered for this.
This was the point in the match where I went from believing we were going to nick it at the end, to thinking that we were going to let them get back to controlling the match.
Sure, we had the three consecutive headers opportunity after that but overall that's how it went. We should have punished them while they were shaky.
Another opportunity missed. I'm so sick of these 'years of hurt' . It was thirty - now it's f***ING double that.
Never ever is the answer.
Southgate picks players on form and sticks them in anywhere. High risk against the likes of Slovenia and Slovakia..
Suicidal against the likes of Spain and France
I think he's been very good on the man management, team spirit side, and far less good tactically.
Feels strange to say but I think we were actually better in the last World Cup (and probably just a bit unlucky go out despite being the better team v a good France side) than we were this tournament, bar the first half v Netherlands.
Southgate was very lucky Bellingham pulled out a bit of brilliance in the 95th minute or that Slovakia game would have been remembered as even worse than Iceland.
Felt a tournament too far, despite clawing our way to the final, we need fresh ideas.
Both in 2021 and 2024 we played the semis on the Wednesday. Better to be on the side of the draw that plays it on the Tuesday.
Going foreign would probably open up the options but we’ve tried that and, rightly or wrongly, it would alienate a good chunk of the fan base before a ball has even been kicked.
Someone like Graham Potter might be the best we can hope for. More likely if Lee Carsley gets promoted from the U21s. Not especially inspiring either way.
On paper our squad easily matches theirs but too many of our big names didn't turn up. Bellingham also needs to leave the rolling around back in Madrid. Yes we got to another final but we've not done it by playing well and we were shown tonight how a good team plays.
His tactics were awful throughout the tournament and he got bailed out by a Bellingham wonder goal or we'd have been home 2 weeks ago and ridiculed.
Kane clearly carrying an injury and despite being captain should not have been starting the last 2 games.
Trippier at left back did not work at all, but if you're going to play him there then at least play a natural left winger like Gordon who could've masked Trippier's deficiencies.
To only give Gordon 4 minutes all tournament is a disgrace. Even last night when chasing the game and would've been up against a tired 32 year old at right back, he still didn't use him. The best comparison i saw was someone who said that if Southgate had Nico Williams, he'd be benched and we'd play Cucurella as a wing back.
Palmer criminally underused. Every time he came on in games he did something so why wasn't he given longer? Compare that to Foden who despite some good moments didn't get a goal or an assist in 7 games.
Thank you for everything you've done Gareth but it's time to go. This squad of players deserve a manager with an attacking mindset, not someone who is going to hold them back with a safety first approach. The best squad in the tournament but not the best team.
We have as much attacking potential as Spain - Williams, Pedri, Yamal, Olmo, Foden, Bellingham, Saka, Palmer etc. they embrace that, we do not. Yes Southgate got us to successive Euro final's with a WC semi thrown in and has restored some belief in English football at the international level, but now its time to part ways and see if we can push on, develop and harness those flair players and get that final win.
Yes, we can look at poor stats, results and failures from managers before Southgate and point out his spectacular record of almost's but regardless, its still not working, no major tournament win.
Cheers Gareth and, er, Adíos
Does he always spend so much time on the floor? It’s absolutely ridiculous, not sure if it’s a recent development?
Still got to the final and maybe we've seen the end of some great players for us and start of some new exciting ones.
I've been reflecting a bit on where our weaknesses were. I think the two holding midfielders need to do a better job, Rice's passing second half was woeful and Mainoo constantly was out of position mopping up for others that had broken ranks. Foden and Bellingham were either in eachothers way or ignoring eachother. But Kane's inability to move up top was our biggest nail in the coffin. Think we need to utilise 3-5-2 more often allowing Kane to have a partner up front or we focus on getting Watkins ready to own that position up front on his own.
He speaks very well and he’s very mature for his age, but during this tournament he’s had an air of ‘Billy Big Bollocks’ about him, and I don’t think that’s helping.
If we got to the final despite him, one might argue we lost the final because of him.
Thats not what I’m saying by the way, but your logic is flawed.
Proud of the team and to get to the final is a huge achievement.
Southgate will be gutted but his legacy should be reviewed objectively as getting England teams to finals and semis as par is remarkable.
Many managers of England, Netherlands, Italy, Portugal etc have had remarkable talent at their disposal and failed so it's a little simplistic to say having great players automatically warrants success.
Proud of England and we'll do it some day.
On to Charlton and look forward to the World Cup after 60 years of hurt.
🏴 🏴 🏴