Walker might be fast but often displays a lack of a football brain, for me. There were a few opportunities to throw towards Saka, but he wanted to show his amazing arm strength...
From that position, a throw into the box often sees a flick-on and an overhead kick!
That's actually a good thing from Walker. The problem is the ball from Pickford. Stones plays it back to Pickford and just watch Watkins. He keeps up with the Spanish defence pushing out, drops deeper and turns. He's away, facing the opposition goal and well onside when it leaves Pickford's foot and a well placed ball over the top would have seen him through.
There he is with a yard on his man already, and here he is 1 second later:
All Pickford, usually one of our best long passers, has to do is send that ball over the top down the middle and Watkins is away. The whole reason we brought him on is to play off that last defender and exploit situations where Spain push higher and can be caught out on the turn. Pickford ends up playing a confused ball inbetween Watkins and Walker that' far too long and the chance goes. It's rubbish, but it's rubbish from Pickford, if the ball over had been right that would have been good from Walker from a throw
It's poor from Walker and Pickford, it doesn't have to be one or the other
Well yes, it does. Between Walker and Stones they've created a situation where a good ball over the top will likely lead to a goal. If Pickford plays the right ball then Walker's played it well, but Pickford's passing lets him down. The majority of the problem we had all tournament was not moving the ball quickly enough, and we brought on Watkins because of his ability to make short to long runs at speed and get behind a defence. Sending the ball back and then forwards at pace is the best way to create the space for Watkins as that passage of play shows. There's nothing wrong with sending the ball back if you can create new options and bring it back up at pace. It's not a particularly difficult ball for Pickford, there's acres of space he can play it into and you'd expect him to make that pass, it's primarily why he's in the team
Have to disagree on this one, needless to go back and expecting Pickford to deliver a 80 yard perfect through ball is silly
Walker might be fast but often displays a lack of a football brain, for me. There were a few opportunities to throw towards Saka, but he wanted to show his amazing arm strength...
From that position, a throw into the box often sees a flick-on and an overhead kick!
That's actually a good thing from Walker. The problem is the ball from Pickford. Stones plays it back to Pickford and just watch Watkins. He keeps up with the Spanish defence pushing out, drops deeper and turns. He's away, facing the opposition goal and well onside when it leaves Pickford's foot and a well placed ball over the top would have seen him through.
There he is with a yard on his man already, and here he is 1 second later:
All Pickford, usually one of our best long passers, has to do is send that ball over the top down the middle and Watkins is away. The whole reason we brought him on is to play off that last defender and exploit situations where Spain push higher and can be caught out on the turn. Pickford ends up playing a confused ball inbetween Watkins and Walker that' far too long and the chance goes. It's rubbish, but it's rubbish from Pickford, if the ball over had been right that would have been good from Walker from a throw
It's poor from Walker and Pickford, it doesn't have to be one or the other
Well yes, it does. Between Walker and Stones they've created a situation where a good ball over the top will likely lead to a goal. If Pickford plays the right ball then Walker's played it well, but Pickford's passing lets him down. The majority of the problem we had all tournament was not moving the ball quickly enough, and we brought on Watkins because of his ability to make short to long runs at speed and get behind a defence. Sending the ball back and then forwards at pace is the best way to create the space for Watkins as that passage of play shows. There's nothing wrong with sending the ball back if you can create new options and bring it back up at pace. It's not a particularly difficult ball for Pickford, there's acres of space he can play it into and you'd expect him to make that pass, it's primarily why he's in the team
Or you could just put the ball into a dangerous position from the outset, rather than going 80 yards backwards to just to try to get back to where you currently have the ball.
An obsession with possession is what has fucked us, again.
Have to disagree on this one, needless to go back and expecting Pickford to deliver a 80 yard perfect through ball is silly
Exactly. When's the last time we saw a goalkeeper provide a direct assist with a perfect through-ball from their own half, in open play? I'm not buying it.
The throw might have been understandable if we were winning and wanted to slow the game down. But it defied logic. Either maintain possession in the advanced position (territory we had to fight hard all game for) or deliver the throw into the box. Going 80 yards back to Pickford was a really poor choice, any pressure was relieved immediately. And the idea it was a 4D chess move to put Watkins through is a creative but unrealistic take.
The video I’ve posted above concludes that England lost for three reasons… two are obvious and one is not
1. (and mostly important) Spain are just really really good 2. Kane was playing like a shell of himself again & he needs to play with runners getting beyond him but that isn’t how Saka, Foden and Bellingham play 3. Pickford’s distribution was awful and meant we never really had a chance of breaking up Spain’s dominance of the ball
Starts getting into it around 10 minute mark… ”In terms of shot stopping he was 11/10, brilliant … but with the ball at his feet he caused England major problems”
Fotmob: 1. Nico Williams 8.2 2. Jude Bellingham 8.1 3. Marc Cucurella 7.7
Worst three from the same sources…
WhoScored: 1. Harry Kane 6.0 2. Kobbie Mainoo 6.1 3. John Stones / Bukayo Saka 6.2
SofaScore: 1. Alvaro Morata 6.3 2. Harry Kane / Kobbie Mainoo / Unai Simon 6.5
Fotmob: 1. Harry Kane 6.0 2. Phil Foden / John Stones 6.1
Those marks for Jude are baffling, no way was he one of the best 3 players on the pitch, who would all be Spanish. And he wasn't even one of the 3 best England players either.
The worst 3 numbers are also bizarre. No Spanish players should feature at all, and John Stones wasn't one of the worst England players either.
Don’t think there was anything inherently wrong with Walker’s decision to throw backwards - Spain had everyone really tightly marked down in that corner, they would’ve likely won the ball and broken on us.
The bigger problems IMO were 1. no one sitting back to provide a better passing option for Stones (what is Guehi’s positioning offering us and why isn’t Bellingham dropping deeper to receive a pass in his absence?).
Stones is given, by his teammates, only one option which is to go back to Pickford. Even that isn’t a disaster if 2. Pickford does anything but what he did which is boot an uncompetitive ball into touch at the other end of the pitch.
Make it competitive for Watkins to try and win a header, go wide left to the open man, check inside of the onrushing Spanish player and pass the ball back to Stones. Anything but what he actually did.
Had the misfortune of listening to Talksport tonight. Jamie O'Hara. How does that bloke get air time. What a complete imbecile. Jermaine Pennant and him has got to be the worst pairing of all time on radio. On the one hand saying how disgusting the reaction to Bellingham has been as he is an elite sports person and doesn't deserve it, and on the other hand digging our Southgate and Kane in what felt like really unpleasant, personal attacks.
I can only imagine that if Spain received this thrown-in, the following options might have been used:
I truly believe that the issue really wasn’t in not going for the attacking option there and then. There was still 15 minutes left, not 15 seconds - we needed to seize control and not let Spain rebuild their confidence.
Keep the pressure on by keeping the ball and carve out a couple of opportunities by running at a shaken back line.
Instead, after Pickford’s grand hoof, we didn’t get the ball back in a meaningful way for six whole minutes - Spain had reset. Our legs were dying before Palmer equalised and that six minutes of chasing shadows well and truly sapped any last adrenaline and momentum that we had left. The deciding goal came only a couple of minutes afterwards.
This is the pass I would’ve liked to have seen to keep the pressure on the Spain back line…
“Between the Stones back-pass in the 76th minute and a Bellingham aerial duel in the 88th, England did not have a single touch in the Spain half. In that time, Spain had 80 touches in the England half. Watkins goes 16 minutes without a touch.
Spain have managed to kill off the England surge, quieten the crowd, take a rest and carve out three or four good openings.”
Just seen an interview with Southgate in the Mirror, which said Kane was carrying an injury, and was tiring easily. No shit sherlock. If that's the case, why were we carrying him beyond the first 45 minutes. Not blaming Kane, but if that issue was known (and clearly visible) it needed a fix.
Just seen an interview with Southgate in the Mirror, which said Kane was carrying an injury, and was tiring easily. No shit sherlock. If that's the case, why were we carrying him beyond the first 45 minutes. Not blaming Kane, but if that issue was known (and clearly visible) it needed a fix.
Easy to say now but only everyone in the world could see he was struggling
If this is true about Kane carrying an Injury then Kane himself should have said to Southgate either play me for the first half or play me for the second half and I will give 100%. But don't play me for longer as I'm not fit enough. Southgate is to blame for keeping Kane on the pitch for too long but Kane shares the blame as well.
Didn't Kane pick up a back injury right at the close of the season and miss our warm up games? Think it was obvious from the outset he wasnt 100%, ridiculous to leave him on for so long but Southgate isn't exactly one for making big decision's, "play the best forward and hope it works out still"
I'm convinced Southgate is another coach in a long line that is too loyal to players and too loyal to an out of date tactic. I'm probably wrong but if he did make changes they were negligible, too late and not enough. I know people will point to the Dutch and Slovenian games but take the past 8 years into account or the past 9 games. Its the same predictable tactics game in game out. If we had a match this afternoon, me and any other England supporter could name at least 10 of the starting line up and where the ball would end up after 3 touches from our kick off. Spain took the kick off for the second half and made us defend. 2 minutes later we were kicking off backwards again, defending in our half and losing the ball there.
England looked best when they had to be brave due to the need to chase the game. Surely there is a learning there. And when they did have to chase, even in the final they came back and very nearly came back again.
I can only imagine that if Spain received this thrown-in, the following options might have been used:
I'm in that picture, five rows from the front about level with Walker (not that it's in focus!) - everyone around us was shouting for movement (that photo appears to show movement but there was very little, they were all walking), and an almost unanimous 'FFS Walker' when he threw it back. It pretty much summed up England's approach for the last 15 minutes, despite the chance we had at the very end.
I stick to what I said at the time and not in retrospect.
Give Kane the 1st half and put Watkins on at HT. Palmer on by 60 minutes ( if you aren't going to start him)and all 5 subs by 80 minutes as Spain will have between 60 and 65% and we will be wilting. I think I saw it was 64.1% possession for Spain.
Gareth Southgate has the record of two finals and a semi final but you never know maybe getting Gallagher on earlier and Eze would've got us to extra time. As Gallagher is the best at closing down with his amazing engine.
The record books say 2-1 but we all watched the game and it felt more of a 4-2 for Spain.
Walker said in an interview on the field before KO may the best team win.
They did and the trophy has gone back to Spain for the 4th time.
Before this tournament, did Pickford kick long so much for England?
Keepers kicking long in the hope, rather than the expectation, of retaining possession isn't how teams play these days at the top level, and isn't how the England players play for their club sides, other than perhaps Pickford at Everton?
I can only imagine that if Spain received this thrown-in, the following options might have been used:
This is the pass I would’ve liked to have seen to keep the pressure on the Spain back line…
You rarely see that kind of pass being made to an isolated player when the defence are pushing up, though. By the time the ball reaches him he's not going to have many options and we're totally out of shape.
I can only imagine that if Spain received this thrown-in, the following options might have been used:
This is the pass I would’ve liked to have seen to keep the pressure on the Spain back line…
You rarely see that kind of pass being made to an isolated player when the defence are pushing up, though. By the time the ball reaches him he's not going to have many options and we're totally out of shape.
Well I was never saying that that was going to lead to a promising cross into the box - we just needed to be able to keep the ball and actually have threatening touches of it in their half. Which we didn’t have at all for 12 minutes after Pickford squandered it with a big hoof.
The whole set up from the start isn’t really helping us too much. Palmer is offering nothing standing on the corner flag & there’s an open space near the corner of the penalty area being filled by Marc Guehi (???).
Everyone needed to shift back one: Palmer to Saka’s position -> Saka to Rice’s position -> Rice to Guehi’s position. That means Guehi can be standing where he’s meant to be in a possession based team like the one Walker & Stones play for and then the ball never even has to go to Pickford in the first place.
Comments
WhoScored:
1. Jude Bellingham 7.9
2. Nico Williams 7.7
3. Lamine Yamal 7.4
SofaScore:
1. Nico Williams 7.9
2. Jude Bellingham 7.7
3. Lamine Yamal 7.5
Fotmob:
1. Nico Williams 8.2
2. Jude Bellingham 8.1
3. Marc Cucurella 7.7
Worst three from the same sources…
WhoScored:
1. Harry Kane 6.0
2. Kobbie Mainoo 6.1
3. John Stones / Bukayo Saka 6.2
SofaScore:
1. Alvaro Morata 6.3
2. Harry Kane / Kobbie Mainoo / Unai Simon 6.5
Fotmob:
1. Harry Kane 6.0
2. Phil Foden / John Stones 6.1
Why England Just Lost The Euro 2024 Final
An obsession with possession is what has fucked us, again.
1. (and mostly important) Spain are just really really good
2. Kane was playing like a shell of himself again & he needs to play with runners getting beyond him but that isn’t how Saka, Foden and Bellingham play
3. Pickford’s distribution was awful and meant we never really had a chance of breaking up Spain’s dominance of the ball
Starts getting into it around 10 minute mark… ”In terms of shot stopping he was 11/10, brilliant … but with the ball at his feet he caused England major problems”
The worst 3 numbers are also bizarre. No Spanish players should feature at all, and John Stones wasn't one of the worst England players either.
The bigger problems IMO were 1. no one sitting back to provide a better passing option for Stones (what is Guehi’s positioning offering us and why isn’t Bellingham dropping deeper to receive a pass in his absence?).
Make it competitive for Watkins to try and win a header, go wide left to the open man, check inside of the onrushing Spanish player and pass the ball back to Stones. Anything but what he actually did.
On the one hand saying how disgusting the reaction to Bellingham has been as he is an elite sports person and doesn't deserve it, and on the other hand digging our Southgate and Kane in what felt like really unpleasant, personal attacks.
Keep the pressure on by keeping the ball and carve out a couple of opportunities by running at a shaken back line.
Instead, after Pickford’s grand hoof, we didn’t get the ball back in a meaningful way for six whole minutes - Spain had reset. Our legs were dying before Palmer equalised and that six minutes of chasing shadows well and truly sapped any last adrenaline and momentum that we had left. The deciding goal came only a couple of minutes afterwards.
This is the pass I would’ve liked to have seen to keep the pressure on the Spain back line…
“Between the Stones back-pass in the 76th minute and a Bellingham aerial duel in the 88th, England did not have a single touch in the Spain half. In that time, Spain had 80 touches in the England half. Watkins goes 16 minutes without a touch.
Spain have managed to kill off the England surge, quieten the crowd, take a rest and carve out three or four good openings.”
From an earlier game. Made me laugh.
No shit sherlock. If that's the case, why were we carrying him beyond the first 45 minutes. Not blaming Kane, but if that issue was known (and clearly visible) it needed a fix.
But don't play me for longer as I'm not fit enough.
Southgate is to blame for keeping Kane on the pitch for too long but Kane shares the blame as well.
If we had a match this afternoon, me and any other England supporter could name at least 10 of the starting line up and where the ball would end up after 3 touches from our kick off. Spain took the kick off for the second half and made us defend. 2 minutes later we were kicking off backwards again, defending in our half and losing the ball there.
I'm in that picture, five rows from the front about level with Walker (not that it's in focus!) - everyone around us was shouting for movement (that photo appears to show movement but there was very little, they were all walking), and an almost unanimous 'FFS Walker' when he threw it back. It pretty much summed up England's approach for the last 15 minutes, despite the chance we had at the very end.
Give Kane the 1st half and put Watkins on at HT.
Palmer on by 60 minutes ( if you aren't going to start him)and all 5 subs by 80 minutes as Spain will have between 60 and 65% and we will be wilting.
I think I saw it was 64.1% possession for Spain.
Gareth Southgate has the record of two finals and a semi final but you never know maybe getting Gallagher on earlier and Eze would've got us to extra time. As Gallagher is the best at closing down with his amazing engine.
The record books say 2-1 but we all watched the game and it felt more of a 4-2 for Spain.
Walker said in an interview on the field before KO may the best team win.
They did and the trophy has gone back to Spain for the 4th time.
Keepers kicking long in the hope, rather than the expectation, of retaining possession isn't how teams play these days at the top level, and isn't how the England players play for their club sides, other than perhaps Pickford at Everton?
The whole set up from the start isn’t really helping us too much. Palmer is offering nothing standing on the corner flag & there’s an open space near the corner of the penalty area being filled by Marc Guehi (???).
Everyone needed to shift back one: Palmer to Saka’s position -> Saka to Rice’s position -> Rice to Guehi’s position. That means Guehi can be standing where he’s meant to be in a possession based team like the one Walker & Stones play for and then the ball never even has to go to Pickford in the first place.