Next England Manager - Thomas Tuchel

Garrymanilow

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

I get that it's a meaningless game and he's trying new things, but i honestly don't get why Tuchel is playing Quansah (who plays CB for his club) at right back, when he has Djed Spence on the bench.

It's the modern thing for teams who expect to have a great deal of the ball to play a centre back at full back. The team narrows to a 3 at the back in possession as O'Reilly pushes high and you don't get that same level of solidity having Spence being part of the 3. Guardiola and Arteta do it very regularly. Arguably he could have put Reece James there instead as he's capable enough defensively but the role is more about being a centre back than a right back in games like this. Albania are so poor Quansah has ended up playing quite wide and high today though so I'm not sure how much he'll learn about his ability to offer solidity

Chris_from_Sidcup

Garrymanilow said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

I get that it's a meaningless game and he's trying new things, but i honestly don't get why Tuchel is playing Quansah (who plays CB for his club) at right back, when he has Djed Spence on the bench.

It's the modern thing for teams who expect to have a great deal of the ball to play a centre back at full back. The team narrows to a 3 at the back in possession as O'Reilly pushes high and you don't get that same level of solidity having Spence being part of the 3. Arguably he could have put Reece James there instead as he's capable enough defensively but the role is more about being a centre back than a right back in games like this

I get what you're saying but not sure i agree it's the best thing for us to be doing. The two countries (Spain/France) i'd class as our main European rivals don't play a centre back at full back, neither do Portugal. I see it more as Tuchel just not trusting the full backs at his disposal (James excluded because there's probably an agreement with Chelsea not to risk him playing twice in 4 days)

Not to mention that Quansah is pretty average anyway.

Garrymanilow

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Garrymanilow said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

I get that it's a meaningless game and he's trying new things, but i honestly don't get why Tuchel is playing Quansah (who plays CB for his club) at right back, when he has Djed Spence on the bench.

It's the modern thing for teams who expect to have a great deal of the ball to play a centre back at full back. The team narrows to a 3 at the back in possession as O'Reilly pushes high and you don't get that same level of solidity having Spence being part of the 3. Arguably he could have put Reece James there instead as he's capable enough defensively but the role is more about being a centre back than a right back in games like this

I get what you're saying but not sure i agree it's the best thing for us to be doing. The two countries (Spain/France) i'd class as our main European rivals don't play a centre back at full back, neither do Portugal. I see it more as Tuchel just not trusting the full backs at his disposal (James excluded because there's probably an agreement with Chelsea not to risk him playing twice in 4 days)

Not to mention that Quansah is pretty average anyway.

I don't disagree, I don't rate Quansah at all. Having said that, I don't rate Djed Spence either, I think he's a very average player. I'm not really bothered about what Spain and France do but we traditionally struggle with breaking down these very poor teams that sit deep. Adding an extra midfielder in who can also cover left back out of possession is something that I can understand Tuchel trying, though it's ended up with us having O'Reilly coming inside and Quansah staying wide and playing as a standard full back which isn't much use. I think you're probably right that Tuchel doesn't love his right back options; who would? If James and Livramento were fit enough to be relied on I think things would be very different

Chizz

P8 W8 D0 L0 F22 A0 

Ranked 4th in the world.  For the first time ever, we'll be going into a World Cup hosted by a country (or countries) that are ranked in the top fifteen in the world, and we're ranked higher than them. 

Whatever you think of him - and I have never been a fan - he's done a terrific job so far and things are looking very, very bright indeed. 

oohaahmortimer

just need to get a load of easy ties and byes as in previous tourneys  and not fuck it up by being lame 

Charlton and on

I've grown to like his approach and he's putting more emphasise on maintaining the collective team spirit than I thought he would. If he can maintain that then his tactical ability might give us a fighting chance. 

There does seem to be an issue between him and Bellingham which is a concern.

fenaddick

Considering they're qualifiers, I've really enjoyed watching England games recently. There's more desire and sharpness to the performances. They haven't been perfect but they've been a lot less slow and ponderous which should help against the bigger teams

ForeverAddickted

Have definitely warmed to him over the last few games.

Was a bit worried after the Senegal friendly defeat (albeit in that horrible International window in the Summer) and the pretty slow start to Qualifying, where we were winning, but made a bit of hard work about it

But fully behind him ever since the 5-0 win over Serbia. Just a shame that the Media remain a joke, but they'll never change... what with Bellingham now their latest target, claiming he was unhappy at being subbed, and "apparently" join in with one of the goal celebrations, when there is clear evidence (via. Getty Images) of him high fiving with Kane.

Garrymanilow

Charlton and on said:

I've grown to like his approach and he's putting more emphasise on maintaining the collective team spirit than I thought he would. If he can maintain that then his tactical ability might give us a fighting chance. 

There does seem to be an issue between him and Bellingham which is a concern.

I think it's hilarious. Every international camp Tuchel sets Bellingham the challenge of not being a big arrogant baby and every time he finds a way to fail it. He's an absolute brat and every time he's played going back to the most recent Euros his negative attitude has outweighed his match contributions. He doesn't link up well with Kane and Rogers might not be as good a player overall but he doesn't occupy the same spaces as Kane and that gets more out of both players. Why would Tuchel put up with Bellingham underperforming and throwing his arms about the place whenever an England player doesn't do what he wants? I like that Tuchel's on his short-term contract not worrying about losing his job due to play power and publicly telling Bellingham about how his mum thinks he's a dick, it's far more entertaining than the time between tournaments has any right to be.

North Lower Neil

Charlton and on said:

I've grown to like his approach and he's putting more emphasise on maintaining the collective team spirit than I thought he would. If he can maintain that then his tactical ability might give us a fighting chance. 

There does seem to be an issue between him and Bellingham which is a concern.

Not sure it's a concern tbh, rather rhe manager wasn't beholden to players who think they are too good to be dropped etc.

If Bellingham can't accept that the England team doesn't revolve around him, then f**k him off.

Addick Addict

If we multiply the attitude of Bellingham by the egos prevalent at Man Utd and Liverpool when England managers felt duty bound to play them all in the same side, despite the fact that it wasn't for the benefit of the team, then it's not difficult to see why we weren't as successful as we might have been.

It's, actually, a master stroke, in my opinion, to make an example of Bellingham. It sets the tone and is a warning shot for all others who think they should be fixtures in the side regardless of form or attitude. It's also a message to players who think that they can opt out of friendlies. We are not a Bale driven side where him being in the side is the be all and end all. We need Bellingham, be that from the start or from the bench, but only the Bellingham that is focused on the sole benefit of the team.  

At the end of the day, international success is never about playing the most attractive football. It's about results. If we can combine both then so much better but us winning the World Cup, even playing the most attritional of football, then that will be what Tuchel will be remembered for. He won't be remembered for us being gallant losing semi-finalists. 

ValleyGary

Garrymanilow said:

Charlton and on said:

I've grown to like his approach and he's putting more emphasise on maintaining the collective team spirit than I thought he would. If he can maintain that then his tactical ability might give us a fighting chance. 

There does seem to be an issue between him and Bellingham which is a concern.

I think it's hilarious. Every international camp Tuchel sets Bellingham the challenge of not being a big arrogant baby and every time he finds a way to fail it. He's an absolute brat and every time he's played going back to the most recent Euros his negative attitude has outweighed his match contributions. He doesn't link up well with Kane and Rogers might not be as good a player overall but he doesn't occupy the same spaces as Kane and that gets more out of both players. Why would Tuchel put up with Bellingham underperforming and throwing his arms about the place whenever an England player doesn't do what he wants? I like that Tuchel's on his short-term contract not worrying about losing his job due to play power and publicly telling Bellingham about how his mum thinks he's a dick, it's far more entertaining than the time between tournaments has any right to be.

It’s made even worse by people like Ian Wright crying ‘it’s the media agenda’. No, Bellingham is a dick, simple as. However, he’s a game winning dick and therefore I’m glad he’s English.

sam3110

Temu Harvey Knibbs 

Diebythesword

I like the football he’s got us playing and we seem like much more of a team unit. He also comes across like he doesn’t give a fuck about what people say. Which is pretty refreshing and can filter down into the way the team play. 

PaddyP17

ValleyGary said:

Garrymanilow said:

Charlton and on said:

I've grown to like his approach and he's putting more emphasise on maintaining the collective team spirit than I thought he would. If he can maintain that then his tactical ability might give us a fighting chance. 

There does seem to be an issue between him and Bellingham which is a concern.

I think it's hilarious. Every international camp Tuchel sets Bellingham the challenge of not being a big arrogant baby and every time he finds a way to fail it. He's an absolute brat and every time he's played going back to the most recent Euros his negative attitude has outweighed his match contributions. He doesn't link up well with Kane and Rogers might not be as good a player overall but he doesn't occupy the same spaces as Kane and that gets more out of both players. Why would Tuchel put up with Bellingham underperforming and throwing his arms about the place whenever an England player doesn't do what he wants? I like that Tuchel's on his short-term contract not worrying about losing his job due to play power and publicly telling Bellingham about how his mum thinks he's a dick, it's far more entertaining than the time between tournaments has any right to be.

It’s made even worse by people like Ian Wright crying ‘it’s the media agenda’. No, Bellingham is a dick, simple as. However, he’s a game winning dick and therefore I’m glad he’s English.

Not saying this to disagree with you entirely, but I do think there's a media agenda to make it out like there is some continued significant beef or bad blood between Tuchel and Bellingham. This country's back pages always want to criticise the England men's national football team.

I think Bellingham's a little petulant and arrogant. Probably with good reason, given how good he is. But there's a lot of smearing of Tuchel as a result, too, when this qualifying campaign has been nothing short of exemplary. Not even a goal conceded - hats off.

MrOneLung

I think if Tuchel hadn't made the 'repulsive' comment, no one would have batted an eyelid at Bellingham being gently eased back into the starting 11 after his injury

CAFCsayer

Don't care if we play Dyche-ball if we win a world cup... winning every qualifier without conceding is impressive,  given defence is by far our weakest department

The Red Robin

Bellingham is a great player, probably the best in his position in the world. Has to start regardless. Usual nonsense from the English press. He did celebrate with the team. 

I’m not entirely convinced by Tuchel. Easy qualifying group as usual. Lost to, and outplayed by Sengal, the only half-decent team we’ve played. We’ll see. I expect the World Cup squad to throw up a few surprises. 

Major

MrOneLung said:

I think if Tuchel hadn't made the 'repulsive' comment, no one would have batted an eyelid at Bellingham being gently eased back into the starting 11 after his injury

Probably right but typical media performance.

In the interview with Talksport in June , Tuchel had said: "If [Bellingham] smiles, he wins everyone. But sometimes you see the rage, the hunger and the fire and it comes out in a way that can be a bit repulsive, for example, for my mother when she sits in front of the TV."

Doesn't seem so shocking taken in the context of his whole comment.
Personally, I wondered if he just used the wrong word in translation, which is why I think he apologised.

And this from a BBC hack, stirring it up again:

"But things have soured for the Real Madrid midfielder under England head coach Thomas Tuchel, who has left Bellingham out of squads and starting line-ups in recent months - and in the summer referred to his on-field behaviour as "repulsive" before later apologising."

Bellingham is a 'All-in' guy and wears his emotions on his sleeve. He reminds me of a young Tiger Woods and when things didn't go well for him (Rarely) he was a bit repulsive to watch as well.

Chris_from_Sidcup

The Red Robin said:

Bellingham is a great player, probably the best in his position in the world. Has to start regardless. Usual nonsense from the English press. He did celebrate with the team. 

I’m not entirely convinced by Tuchel. Easy qualifying group as usual. Lost to, and outplayed by Sengal, the only half-decent team we’ve played. We’ll see. I expect the World Cup squad to throw up a few surprises. 

Look at our lineup v Senegal though, we started only 3 players i'd expect to be in Tuchel's first choice XI. 

Charlton and on

ValleyGary said:

Garrymanilow said:

Charlton and on said:

I've grown to like his approach and he's putting more emphasise on maintaining the collective team spirit than I thought he would. If he can maintain that then his tactical ability might give us a fighting chance. 

There does seem to be an issue between him and Bellingham which is a concern.

I think it's hilarious. Every international camp Tuchel sets Bellingham the challenge of not being a big arrogant baby and every time he finds a way to fail it. He's an absolute brat and every time he's played going back to the most recent Euros his negative attitude has outweighed his match contributions. He doesn't link up well with Kane and Rogers might not be as good a player overall but he doesn't occupy the same spaces as Kane and that gets more out of both players. Why would Tuchel put up with Bellingham underperforming and throwing his arms about the place whenever an England player doesn't do what he wants? I like that Tuchel's on his short-term contract not worrying about losing his job due to play power and publicly telling Bellingham about how his mum thinks he's a dick, it's far more entertaining than the time between tournaments has any right to be.

It’s made even worse by people like Ian Wright crying ‘it’s the media agenda’. No, Bellingham is a dick, simple as. However, he’s a game winning dick and therefore I’m glad he’s English.

My concern is that after strong starts at big club, it's rumoured that Tuchel generally loses the dressing room and it has been reflected in results. He's only got a short contract with England so hopefully this Bellingham thing is just the media and won't damage the squad. 

Bedsaddick

It used to be the gutter press newspapers that would stir shit up before a World Cup now , only people over 70 buys a newspaper now so it’s the radio stations like Talksport who are posting the crap on Social Media . The fact is , the so called press have always had it in for England and we’ll never win a World Cup again until that stops which it never will in my lifetime. It’s thoroughly depressing 

ValleyGary

I think the media are wankers in general, but it’s nowhere near as bad as it was. Players are more likely to get abuse from ‘fans’ on socials than picked on by the press. Let’s be honest, the reason we haven’t won a tournament is because we haven’t been good enough.

bobmunro

I just ignore the stirring up by the media. We have an England team that have won 11 straight consecutive competitive matches, qualified with a perfect record, and are playing the most attractive football probably since the days of El Tel. 

Is Bellingham a very good player? - Yes. Does he add to the team when his attitude is right? - Yes. Could we win a World Cup without him? Yes. Will we? - who knows!!

Tuchel is doing a great job and it seems listening to the senior players (most recently Stones and Rice) it appears they agree and have bought into his philosophy.

Glass very much half full.

arny23394

Bellingham has always come across as a bit of a knobend. Come the World Cup, Palmer has to start for me. 

AllHailTheHen

Tuchel does seem very much focused on getting the optimal team set up rather than crow barring in all the best players. Absolutely the right way to do it and if that means the likes of Bellingham or Foden have a reduced role then so be it. Amazing players to have as options either way

pettgra

One of the journos has said if fit he thinks that Lewis Hall will be our LB come the World Cup.
Tbf their opinion is no more valid then ours; however, I had completely forgotten about him.

North Lower Neil

bobmunro said:

I just ignore the stirring up by the media. We have an England team that have won 11 straight consecutive competitive matches, qualified with a perfect record, and are playing the most attractive football probably since the days of El Tel. 

Is Bellingham a very good player? - Yes. Does he add to the team when his attitude is right? - Yes. Could we win a World Cup without him? Yes. Will we? - who knows!!

Tuchel is doing a great job and it seems listening to the senior players (most recently Stoners and Rice) it appears they agree and have bought into his philosophy.

Glass very much half full.

That was a good interview - I know they'rw unlikely to ever say anything negative but I think it seemed genuine that they like playing under Tuchel.

PaddyP17

The repulsive comment is quite clearly a lost-in-translation thing btw. He meant off-putting, is what is most likely. People don't always seem to remember Tuchel is conducting interviews in his second language.

AndyG

I wasnt impressed when Tuchel was appointed but you cant argue with his record so far, yes you can argue that we havent played anyone that you would hope we should beat but in past years we have often failed to do that.

Teams that win trophies are normally exactly that "Teams" and that doesnt mean that they have the best players. Tuchel to me seems to be building a team which I think is a massive change in set up for England rather than trying to get our best players into the starting line up. Time will tell but maybe just maybe this is our time