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Charlton 24/25 Tactics Thread

I tried to get this going last year but it died pretty quickly, trying again though! I think Jones is an interesting tactician and the versatility of a few of our players could lead to some fun things. In particular there's a decent number of defenders in the squad who can play a few positions so I'd expect to see a decent amount of in game fluidity.
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Comments

  • edited August 7
    Win games
  • Out score our opponents 
  • edited August 7
    Gegenpressing is I think the answer to the clean sheet issue, reduce pressure on your defence by winning the ball back further up the pitch. 

    There are three ways to best do this:

    - Multiple players press the man who is intending to start a counter
    (i.e opposition defender intercepts a ball, the nearest 3-4 players press from different angles to remove the option to pass it out easily and forces a long pass at worst and at best gives multiple options to pass to if the ball is won back)

    - Players mark the pass options, whilst one presses the ball, hopefully forcing the player into a rushed pass where other players are already marking his option.

    - Players mark the space between passing options, whilst one presses the ball, much like the above, but can lead to more errors if the pass is a good one, really relies on the closest man to the opposition player on the ball rapidly, to minimise his time to look for an option. 

    If you know how to attack with a gegen press, you then know how to defend it too. It will usually mean you need a keeper with great distribution and a calm head, to receive the ball back and get it forward quickly. The other option being midfielders have to support the defence with more options for the pass, but then you need fit midfielders to constantly be playing box to box. 
  • Jones definitely does have a preferred system but even within that hopefully there's room to change as needed - a 3-5-2 is going to play differently depending on who the 2 are out of Leaburn, Ahadme, Godden and Campbell and potentially Dixon. 

    I would imagine we're hoping to be a bit more physically strong and combative than the tissue paper of previous seasons.
  • I think we’ll be very physical and combative. Not free scoring. Difficult to beat bit don’t win enough. Still don’t see enough goals for top two and 60/40 for top six. 
    If only we had a striker who works hard, doesn't stop running & virtually guarantees you 20+ goals  :#  
  • From what I saw on Saturday ball distribution is down to the central defenders who smack it up the wing hoping for one of the wing back to collect. Problem is are the wingbacks good enough to deliver/ create the chances for the frontmen as we dont have much creativity in midfield. 

    Time will tell but I'm fearing we just dont have enough to win enough games. 
  • My concern is that while Jones does have a system he is also very much "my way or no way" and therefore does not have the ability to change tactics, hope I'm wrong.
  • I think we’re going to see a lot of long cross field diagonals from our left and right back three to Ahadme, Aneke and Leaburn. Not overly looking forward to the football we’re going to play but hope it’s successful 
  • edited August 7
    I think we’ll be very physical and combative. Not free scoring. Difficult to beat bit don’t win enough. Still don’t see enough goals for top two and 60/40 for top six. 
    If only we had a striker who works hard, doesn't stop running & virtually guarantees you 20+ goals  :#  
    Is it better to have one player that scored 25 in a season, whilst 6 others score 20 between them - not sure how many were league vs other comps

    Or a more even spread between our 5 strikers of 50+ total?
    I think
    Ahadme could get 15
    Godden could get 10
    Kanu could get 10
    Aneke could get 8 (If he stays fit)
    Leaburn could get another 8 (If he stays fit)

    I would obviously prefer one gets 20+ and the rest still chip in with their numbers above, but that's not realistic for us as May had to leave due to circumstances. 

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  • My concern is that while Jones does have a system he is also very much "my way or no way" and therefore does not have the ability to change tactics, hope I'm wrong.
    I think the tweaks will be subtle but there. For example, a midfield 3 of Doc, Coventry & Berry could play with a 6 and two 8s or two 6s and a 10. Looks similar on paper but play differently which is hard for teams to set up against. Our strikers have quite different profiles too, TC will drift wider as I imagine Dixon would and Godden will move more than someone like Ahadme. A few of these tweaks together makes a huge difference to how the team plays
  • I actually think CB is going to be our most interesting position. Will we see the LCB/RCB be given the freedom to progress, will Z Mitchell be given the opportunity to move forward into the 6 when he gets minutes etc. 
  • Dazzler21 said:
    I think we’ll be very physical and combative. Not free scoring. Difficult to beat bit don’t win enough. Still don’t see enough goals for top two and 60/40 for top six. 
    If only we had a striker who works hard, doesn't stop running & virtually guarantees you 20+ goals  :#  
    Is it better to have one player that scored 25 in a season, whilst 6 others score 20 between them - not sure how many were league vs other comps

    Or a more even spread between our 5 strikers of 50+ total?
    I think
    Ahadme could get 15
    Godden could get 10
    Kanu could get 10
    Aneke could get 8 (If he stays fit)
    Leaburn could get another 8 (If he stays fit)

    I would obviously prefer one gets 20+ and the rest still chip in with their numbers above, but that's not realistic for us as May had to leave due to circumstances. 

    Well the circumstances with Alfie were he was very happy at Charlton until Jones made it known that he didn't fancy Alfie & he wouldn't be a regular striker or at least so certain people who know better that me have posted on here.
    Anyway given different circumstances why couldn't Alfie play as a partner to any of the players you've listed as it seems we'll be playing with 2 up front & he could link up with Gas in the same way that Godden hopefully will ?
    All of the players you've listed "could" get those goals, but it's not enough is it ?
    Just going back on myself I thought that the masterplan was we're not going to rely on an Alfie May who will guarantee you goals but we'll have goals right through the team. Well on my limited viewing so far we're nowhere near having a team/squad that's full of goals & I think we will regret selling Alfie or at least bringing in an equivalent. ( & I don't see Godden being that player as some have suggested) End of the day time will tell & I just hope I'm wrong.  


  • It's going to be a tough season. I think we're a long way off an automatic spotd and those play off places will be fierce. Brum, Huddersfield, Bolton, Rotherham and Peterborough are all going to be up there. Plus Blackpool, Barnsley and Lincoln. There is also a lot of chuff in the league, so i'm confident on a top half finish.

    With our goal machine having exited, we're going to need contributions all over the pitch.

    It's been a long time since we had a set peice specialist. I know that Greg Docherty can whack one in from distance, but i don't know if he's a free kick kind of guy. We need to maximise threats from corners too, an area where we have been particularly poor of late.

    We are short on pace. I think Nathan will start Edwards ahead of Small v Wigan, with Ramsay partnering him on the other side. We don't have a creative talent on the middle who can unlock defence. It could be Berry, but it's an area we need to strengthen.

    Conclusion: i don't see heaps of flexibility in the team. I'm hopeful that will change when we move on the obvious deadwood.
  • edited August 7
    PopIcon said:
    It's going to be a tough season. I think we're a long way off an automatic spotd and those play off places will be fierce. Brum, Huddersfield, Bolton, Rotherham and Peterborough are all going to be up there. Plus Blackpool, Barnsley and Lincoln. There is also a lot of chuff in the league, so i'm confident on a top half finish.

    With our goal machine having exited, we're going to need contributions all over the pitch.

    It's been a long time since we had a set peice specialist. I know that Greg Docherty can whack one in from distance, but i don't know if he's a free kick kind of guy. We need to maximise threats from corners too, an area where we have been particularly poor of late.

    We are short on pace. I think Nathan will start Edwards ahead of Small v Wigan, with Ramsay partnering him on the other side. We don't have a creative talent on the middle who can unlock defence. It could be Berry, but it's an area we need to strengthen.

    Conclusion: i don't see heaps of flexibility in the team. I'm hopeful that will change when we move on the obvious deadwood.
    Most of our attacking initiation will come from Small /Edwards and Ramsey. It will be width rather than played through the middle. We’ll get it forwards quickly and look to break up play high up the pitch. It’s how Jones likes to play. For me I like a playmaker in midfield but I don’t see its 100% necessary with the way Jones sets his teams up. I don’t see us creating lots of chances so when they fall they need to be taken. I see lots of narrow victories or defeats and too many draws. No question top half but top six ? It’ll be a tight squeeze I think. I think Campbell could be a very important player for us this season. 
  • PopIcon said:
    It's going to be a tough season. I think we're a long way off an automatic spotd and those play off places will be fierce. Brum, Huddersfield, Bolton, Rotherham and Peterborough are all going to be up there. Plus Blackpool, Barnsley and Lincoln. There is also a lot of chuff in the league, so i'm confident on a top half finish.

    With our goal machine having exited, we're going to need contributions all over the pitch.

    It's been a long time since we had a set peice specialist. I know that Greg Docherty can whack one in from distance, but i don't know if he's a free kick kind of guy. We need to maximise threats from corners too, an area where we have been particularly poor of late.

    We are short on pace. I think Nathan will start Edwards ahead of Small v Wigan, with Ramsay partnering him on the other side. We don't have a creative talent on the middle who can unlock defence. It could be Berry, but it's an area we need to strengthen.

    Conclusion: i don't see heaps of flexibility in the team. I'm hopeful that will change when we move on the obvious deadwood.
    Most of our attacking initiation will come from Small /Edwards and Ramsey. It will be width rather than played through the middle. We’ll get it forwards quickly and look to break up play high up the pitch. It’s how Jones likes to play. For me I like a playmaker in midfield but I don’t see its 100% necessary with the way Jones sets his teams up. I don’t see us creating lots of chances so when they fall they need to be taken. I see lots of narrow victories or defeats and too many draws. No question top half but top six ? It’ll be a tight squeeze I think. I think Campbell could be a very important player for us this season. 
    I agree about the wingbacks, actually i agree with everything you said.
    As you know, it's not going to work against evey team. Ramsay has looked great in pre-season, but he'll soon be found out and they'll double up on him. Then what? We throw Aneke on to bully defenders. I just hope Jones has a few options up his sleeve.
    I'm excited to see Campbell, he struggled to fit into the team last season. Under Jones he's been recycled into a beefy striker and he's still only 20.
  • PopIcon said:
    PopIcon said:
    It's going to be a tough season. I think we're a long way off an automatic spotd and those play off places will be fierce. Brum, Huddersfield, Bolton, Rotherham and Peterborough are all going to be up there. Plus Blackpool, Barnsley and Lincoln. There is also a lot of chuff in the league, so i'm confident on a top half finish.

    With our goal machine having exited, we're going to need contributions all over the pitch.

    It's been a long time since we had a set peice specialist. I know that Greg Docherty can whack one in from distance, but i don't know if he's a free kick kind of guy. We need to maximise threats from corners too, an area where we have been particularly poor of late.

    We are short on pace. I think Nathan will start Edwards ahead of Small v Wigan, with Ramsay partnering him on the other side. We don't have a creative talent on the middle who can unlock defence. It could be Berry, but it's an area we need to strengthen.

    Conclusion: i don't see heaps of flexibility in the team. I'm hopeful that will change when we move on the obvious deadwood.
    Most of our attacking initiation will come from Small /Edwards and Ramsey. It will be width rather than played through the middle. We’ll get it forwards quickly and look to break up play high up the pitch. It’s how Jones likes to play. For me I like a playmaker in midfield but I don’t see its 100% necessary with the way Jones sets his teams up. I don’t see us creating lots of chances so when they fall they need to be taken. I see lots of narrow victories or defeats and too many draws. No question top half but top six ? It’ll be a tight squeeze I think. I think Campbell could be a very important player for us this season. 
    I agree about the wingbacks, actually i agree with everything you said.
    As you know, it's not going to work against evey team. Ramsay has looked great in pre-season, but he'll soon be found out and they'll double up on him. Then what? We throw Aneke on to bully defenders. I just hope Jones has a few options up his sleeve.
    I'm excited to see Campbell, he struggled to fit into the team last season. Under Jones he's been recycled into a beefy striker and he's still only 20.
    Think you’ve found one of the solutions in your answer, TC. If he drifts out wide it’s harder to cover him and Ramsay. 
  • PopIcon said:
    It's going to be a tough season. I think we're a long way off an automatic spotd and those play off places will be fierce. Brum, Huddersfield, Bolton, Rotherham and Peterborough are all going to be up there. Plus Blackpool, Barnsley and Lincoln. There is also a lot of chuff in the league, so i'm confident on a top half finish.

    With our goal machine having exited, we're going to need contributions all over the pitch.

    It's been a long time since we had a set peice specialist. I know that Greg Docherty can whack one in from distance, but i don't know if he's a free kick kind of guy. We need to maximise threats from corners too, an area where we have been particularly poor of late.

    We are short on pace. I think Nathan will start Edwards ahead of Small v Wigan, with Ramsay partnering him on the other side. We don't have a creative talent on the middle who can unlock defence. It could be Berry, but it's an area we need to strengthen.

    Conclusion: i don't see heaps of flexibility in the team. I'm hopeful that will change when we move on the obvious deadwood.
    We took 3/4 corners on saturday and every single one made it past the first post and didnt automatically get cleared....thats already an improvement on recent seasons ! weve been absolutely dog turd at set pieces for years.
  • We won't allow clean and unchallenged possession by the opposition for more than a second unless in their goalmouth area, and even then one of ours will approach and look for a mistake.
  • It will be interesting to see how the wingbacks are implemented. At times last season we operated with an inverted wingback, usually Edun, moving across into central midfield, allowing the left sided centre back to push up and wide on the left, and the left sided central midfielder also pushing up and left. This creates an overload on that side and helps to stretch the right hand side of the pitch (where the wingback is expected to push up high and stay wide) to create space. The reasoning is then the left sided centre back or indeed his defensive partner can play a long diagonal into the space, opening up the pitch and getting the ball forwards quickly.

    A lot of our play in pre season has gone differently, with the wingbacks pushing up and out on the touchlines and looking to play quickly up the channels, and playing balls in behind to runners. This means the midfield 3 are more compact, and will likely look to play more conservatively, waiting for space to open up wide. Instead of playing with 2 box to box midfielders and a number 10, so far we've utilised a deeper central midfielder behind 2 more dynamic players who look to both push forwards and help out defensively. 

    I think we have the players to play both, time will tell which one is more effective.

    I also believe we have the players in place to change to a 41212 diamond midfield if necessary, with fullbacks and a holding midfielder, 2 box to box midfielders and a creative 10 behind 2 strikers. If Dixon joins us and we use TC as a winger, a 433 is possible, however due to the lack of true wingers in the club I expect it's a last resort tactic at best, when trying to chase a game late on
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  • Kick off
    side side back
    back side side
    back back side
    lose-possession run-like-chickens back
    side back side
    lose-possession run-like-chickens kick-off-again
    repeat
  • Swisdom said:
    I'm excited about the coming season I can't lie.

    I don't think it will be scintillating football however

    We will be nasty, niggly and very hard to play against.  There is a lot more spirit in the team now and a few more leaders in the squad

    In defence we have options.  Against Pompey we saw what Edwads is capable of as a wing back but his defensive side has also been surprisingly good in pre season.  With that in mind he can play as a LB and LWB or a LCB
    The exact same can be said of Kayne Ramsey - trust me this guy is going to surprise people this season.  His energy and pace will be an asset but he is also very strong and capable of dropping in to RCB
    So in drops Thierry Small on the left flank and to a lesser extent Tennai Watson on the right flank (not perfect but probably a better 2nd choice than many team in our division)
    The middle 3 will usually be from Jones / Gillesphey / AMitchell with REG and Zach Mitchell as backup

    That midfield of Docherty, Coventry and Anderson looked good and I dare say Berry will slot in there nicely.  Anderson (energy) and Doc (organisation) with the energy and Coventry playing as the quarterback but Berry can slot in there in any of those positions and they can be interchangeable.

    Up top will be a big man little man combo some games - Gassan/Miles/Chuks with Godden / Kanu / Tyreece
    Or two big boys - Gassan / Miles / Chuks
    Or two mobile buggers Godden / Kanu / Tyreece

    Dixon is a real wild card and will be effective if we switch to a 442 (out wide) or 4-5-1 and he can float around in space behind a big boy

    So we have a fair few options for formations, a solid spine and interchangeable players all over the place

    I'm sure I've missed a few out but I would like another "Andy Reid" type who can unlock the door and I don't think Edun is that player

    So a solid defence, lots of aggression, plenty of long balls and a really strong midfield buzzing around and pissing the opposition off.  That's how I see it.  Not especially pretty but I saw enough on Saturday to think we can do something this season.

    If I were allowed to bet I'd have us finishing 3rd or 4th
    I’m so excited about the options we have. I feel like we can be fairly fluid and adaptable which is key to this league. If we face a pitch like we did against Burton away for example we have the big men to play aerially, playing at home we can keep it on the floor. Got a feeling TC is going to have a major impact. 
  • As usual I’m excited by our prospects before a ball has been kicked in anger. The last few years that excitement has died by about the 3rd game 😂 this year I think will be different. We will not be a soft touch for anyone I’m sure of that. Maybe not champagne football but results will be there. If we can get off to a flyer with 3 points on Saturday the momentum will have started and who knows where that takes us
  • Swisdom said:
    I'm excited about the coming season I can't lie.

    I don't think it will be scintillating football however

    We will be nasty, niggly and very hard to play against.  There is a lot more spirit in the team now and a few more leaders in the squad

    In defence we have options.  Against Pompey we saw what Edwads is capable of as a wing back but his defensive side has also been surprisingly good in pre season.  With that in mind he can play as a LB and LWB or a LCB
    The exact same can be said of Kayne Ramsey - trust me this guy is going to surprise people this season.  His energy and pace will be an asset but he is also very strong and capable of dropping in to RCB
    So in drops Thierry Small on the left flank and to a lesser extent Tennai Watson on the right flank (not perfect but probably a better 2nd choice than many team in our division)
    The middle 3 will usually be from Jones / Gillesphey / AMitchell with REG and Zach Mitchell as backup

    That midfield of Docherty, Coventry and Anderson looked good and I dare say Berry will slot in there nicely.  Anderson (energy) and Doc (organisation) with the energy and Coventry playing as the quarterback but Berry can slot in there in any of those positions and they can be interchangeable.

    Up top will be a big man little man combo some games - Gassan/Miles/Chuks with Godden / Kanu / Tyreece
    Or two big boys - Gassan / Miles / Chuks
    Or two mobile buggers Godden / Kanu / Tyreece

    Dixon is a real wild card and will be effective if we switch to a 442 (out wide) or 4-5-1 and he can float around in space behind a big boy

    So we have a fair few options for formations, a solid spine and interchangeable players all over the place

    I'm sure I've missed a few out but I would like another "Andy Reid" type who can unlock the door and I don't think Edun is that player

    So a solid defence, lots of aggression, plenty of long balls and a really strong midfield buzzing around and pissing the opposition off.  That's how I see it.  Not especially pretty but I saw enough on Saturday to think we can do something this season.

    If I were allowed to bet I'd have us finishing 3rd or 4th
    I have felt exactly the same but you've written it up lovely.

    Very Excited!
  • Our style of play summed up in one word: direct. 

    If we lose the resulting 50/50 I imagine there will be a high press to win the ball back in forward areas to create chances quickly. 

    If it works it'll be lauded. If it doesn't work it'll be seen as pub football. 
  • edited August 7
    The passing of our centre halfs and wing backs will be crucial to a lot of our play.

    Either long diagonals to a forward (with the midfield and opposite side wing backs up to support) or when the opportunity arises, balls into a channel for the forward to run onto as we saw twice to good effect against Pompey.

    I think that will, with a few other minor details here and there, be the majority of our threat going forward.

    I think what’s more critical to the way Jones wants us to play is the out of possession stuff. He talks about being “front footed” a lot. He wants us to be aggressive, horrible to play against and constantly pressuring the ball.

    In the past, Jurgen Klopp has said “no creative player is as good as good counter pressing”. I think that might be the way Nathan Jones sees things too.
  • seth plum said:
    We won't allow clean and unchallenged possession by the opposition for more than a second unless in their goalmouth area, and even then one of ours will approach and look for a mistake.
    Well that's the plan but it's a big ask for 90 minutes 46 times a season
  • seth plum said:
    We won't allow clean and unchallenged possession by the opposition for more than a second unless in their goalmouth area, and even then one of ours will approach and look for a mistake.
    Well that's the plan but it's a big ask for 90 minutes 46 times a season
    Yeah. I reckon it would take skilled use of substitutions, and a bit of astute player rotation to sustain.
    These days they reckon it's 100 minutes that you have to be at it for each game.
    What is a bit encouraging is that there are almost two credible players for each position. Hard to predict who is going to be the one player we can't do without.
    Mind you, I do like a talismanic type player. Maybe that guy will be a supersub next season.
  • If all else fails , lump it up to the Big Man.
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