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Alfie May- Progress at Birmingham
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having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.5 -
In a 100 years time if a neutral ever looked back and compared both players careers, who do you think they would say was the better player was?SELR_addicks said:
We have eyes and have watched both players.FishCostaFortune said:Why are some posters convinced May is better than Godden?
They both have a similar goal record, yet Godden has played at a consistently higher level.Whether it was the correct decision to sell May or not, time will tell. But to say that he is a ‘better player than Godden’ when he has indisputably had a ‘lesser career’, and is not out scoring him this year after playing more minutes in a vastly superior team - just does not make sense to me.
They’ve played at the same level 3 times at the same time during their careers. 2 of those times Godden vastly outscored May, and the 3rd time in this year where they are currently neck and neck.
Apart from that Godden has consistently played at a higher level, and yet there goal records are not that dissimilar.
Wierdly, I have ‘eyes’ to, and think it’s futile even trying to claim who you think is better based off the minutes Godden has played for us.
So again I find it weird that some people seem so sure in themselves that May is the better player with absolutely no dispute.
‘Over the last 12 months’. Godden has only effectively been with us 5 months! How about we wait until the end of the season and then we can all compare effectively like for like - instead of people making sweeping statements 18 games into the season.SporadicAddick said:having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.
And I really don’t think you can compare a player in the 1920’s to one playing today.2 -
I don’t think there’s too much in it , Mays better work rate and busyness is cancelled out by Godden’s better touch and he is a purer player .
but even if we had prime lionel Messi and Ronaldo playing for us until we’re out of this pathetic hell of league one groundhog dogshit seasons I’m not pulling the plonker of any of this load of wank that is part of our worst footballing period ever, all the time our local rivals are having their best periods ffs load of crap3 -
Wait so if we're taking into account team stature, xG, points gained etc. May should have double Godden and Ahadme.
So actually May is shite and these 2 are mustard 😎0 -
You have eyes and yet you're trying to fight the battle on paper using historical data rather than just telling me what about Godden is better than May right now?FishCostaFortune said:
In a 100 years time if a neutral ever looked back and compared both players careers, who do you think they would say was the better player was?SELR_addicks said:
We have eyes and have watched both players.FishCostaFortune said:Why are some posters convinced May is better than Godden?
They both have a similar goal record, yet Godden has played at a consistently higher level.Whether it was the correct decision to sell May or not, time will tell. But to say that he is a ‘better player than Godden’ when he has indisputably had a ‘lesser career’, and is not out scoring him this year after playing more minutes in a vastly superior team - just does not make sense to me.
They’ve played at the same level 3 times at the same time during their careers. 2 of those times Godden vastly outscored May, and the 3rd time in this year where they are currently neck and neck.
Apart from that Godden has consistently played at a higher level, and yet there goal records are not that dissimilar.
Wierdly, I have ‘eyes’ to, and think it’s futile even trying to claim who you think is better based off the minutes Godden has played for us.
So again I find it weird that some people seem so sure in themselves that May is the better player with absolutely no dispute.
‘Over the last 12 months’. Godden has only effectively been with us 5 months! How about we wait until the end of the season and then we can all compare effectively like for like - instead of people making sweeping statements 18 games into the season.SporadicAddick said:having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.
And I really don’t think you can compare a player in the 1920’s to one playing today.
I'm sure in myself because I've watched both of them play for Charlton against similar opposition and across the pitch May offered more to the team than Godden.
This kind of thinking leads to thinking Harry Arter was a better player in 21/22 than George Dobson because Arter had played in the Premier League previously.5 -
Had a chuckle to myself imagining this futuristic dweeb comparing Godden and May's respective goalscoring records in the 2124.FishCostaFortune said:
In a 100 years time if a neutral ever looked back and compared both players careers, who do you think they would say was the better player was?SELR_addicks said:
We have eyes and have watched both players.FishCostaFortune said:Why are some posters convinced May is better than Godden?
They both have a similar goal record, yet Godden has played at a consistently higher level.Whether it was the correct decision to sell May or not, time will tell. But to say that he is a ‘better player than Godden’ when he has indisputably had a ‘lesser career’, and is not out scoring him this year after playing more minutes in a vastly superior team - just does not make sense to me.
They’ve played at the same level 3 times at the same time during their careers. 2 of those times Godden vastly outscored May, and the 3rd time in this year where they are currently neck and neck.
Apart from that Godden has consistently played at a higher level, and yet there goal records are not that dissimilar.
Wierdly, I have ‘eyes’ to, and think it’s futile even trying to claim who you think is better based off the minutes Godden has played for us.
So again I find it weird that some people seem so sure in themselves that May is the better player with absolutely no dispute.
‘Over the last 12 months’. Godden has only effectively been with us 5 months! How about we wait until the end of the season and then we can all compare effectively like for like - instead of people making sweeping statements 18 games into the season.SporadicAddick said:having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.
And I really don’t think you can compare a player in the 1920’s to one playing today.
That said, in a 100 years the tech will have sufficiently advanced so that this future dweeb will be able to afford a 7/10 robot girlfriend.0 -
May is faster, presses more and is a cleaner striker of the ball.
Godden has better control, is stronger and has better link up play.
Both have poachers instinct
There's not a huge amount in it for me17 -
No, I’m saying historically Godden has had a better career, and when at the same level has done better than May. Or are you distributing that?SELR_addicks said:
You have eyes and yet you're trying to fight the battle on paper using historical data rather than just telling me what about Godden is better than May right now?FishCostaFortune said:
In a 100 years time if a neutral ever looked back and compared both players careers, who do you think they would say was the better player was?SELR_addicks said:
We have eyes and have watched both players.FishCostaFortune said:Why are some posters convinced May is better than Godden?
They both have a similar goal record, yet Godden has played at a consistently higher level.Whether it was the correct decision to sell May or not, time will tell. But to say that he is a ‘better player than Godden’ when he has indisputably had a ‘lesser career’, and is not out scoring him this year after playing more minutes in a vastly superior team - just does not make sense to me.
They’ve played at the same level 3 times at the same time during their careers. 2 of those times Godden vastly outscored May, and the 3rd time in this year where they are currently neck and neck.
Apart from that Godden has consistently played at a higher level, and yet there goal records are not that dissimilar.
Wierdly, I have ‘eyes’ to, and think it’s futile even trying to claim who you think is better based off the minutes Godden has played for us.
So again I find it weird that some people seem so sure in themselves that May is the better player with absolutely no dispute.
‘Over the last 12 months’. Godden has only effectively been with us 5 months! How about we wait until the end of the season and then we can all compare effectively like for like - instead of people making sweeping statements 18 games into the season.SporadicAddick said:having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.
And I really don’t think you can compare a player in the 1920’s to one playing today.
I'm sure in myself because I've watched both of them play for Charlton against similar opposition and across the pitch May offered more to the team than Godden.
This kind of thinking leads to thinking Harry Arter was a better player in 21/22 than George Dobson because Arter had played in the Premier League previously.
And I am saying that people are making sweeping decision on who they think is ‘better’, like it is absolutely non contest, based off a small snapshot.If scouting was so easy as ‘having eyes’, and a strong opinion and some churlish comments online - I’m sure we could all be in the job.2 -
Personally I dont agree that Godden has better control. I don’t recall May losiing possession due to a loose touch. On the contrary whether he was out wide or marooned up front, he would get hold of a (often poorly played) pass and be able to hold it until a team mate arrived.sam3110 said:May is faster, presses more and is a cleaner striker of the ball.
Godden has better control, is stronger and has better link up play.
Both have poachers instinct
There's not a huge amount in it for meThere was one time a hopeful 60 yard high pass was played vaguely in his direction and he trapped it perfectly, the entire stadium applauded it.
Godden is not much worse at this but certainly not better. The bigger issue is that for large parts of the game he is simply not showing for the ball in the first place. The other issue is that he is a year older than May. I like him, but he is patently not an upgrade *at this stage in his csreer.*
@killerjerrylee if you have scored 20 plus goals by March and some new manager comes along and makes it clear he doesnt rate you, then you are off, regardless of what your family says. And of course “off” was initially Huddersfield, not Brum.0 -
While May is quicker and presses more I would argue that Godden presses more intelligently. Another positive is that he has no qualms about doing dirty work ever. Can’t accuse May of not dropping back to help ever but there were times when he didn’t or was clearly annoyed he had to.sam3110 said:May is faster, presses more and is a cleaner striker of the ball.
Godden has better control, is stronger and has better link up play.
Both have poachers instinct
There's not a huge amount in it for me
Godden is playing with better quality players around him though. Kanu has improved a lot and Ahadme is starting to come into his own.
They’re both good strikers and not as similar as some see in my opinion0 - Sponsored links:
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In 100 years if a neutral looked back at the career of Ben Watson and Terry Taylor it is obvious who was better. In reality if you look at how they both performed at Charlton in L1 I think I can guess which one has done better for us.FishCostaFortune said:
In a 100 years time if a neutral ever looked back and compared both players careers, who do you think they would say was the better player was?SELR_addicks said:
We have eyes and have watched both players.FishCostaFortune said:Why are some posters convinced May is better than Godden?
They both have a similar goal record, yet Godden has played at a consistently higher level.Whether it was the correct decision to sell May or not, time will tell. But to say that he is a ‘better player than Godden’ when he has indisputably had a ‘lesser career’, and is not out scoring him this year after playing more minutes in a vastly superior team - just does not make sense to me.
They’ve played at the same level 3 times at the same time during their careers. 2 of those times Godden vastly outscored May, and the 3rd time in this year where they are currently neck and neck.
Apart from that Godden has consistently played at a higher level, and yet there goal records are not that dissimilar.
Wierdly, I have ‘eyes’ to, and think it’s futile even trying to claim who you think is better based off the minutes Godden has played for us.
So again I find it weird that some people seem so sure in themselves that May is the better player with absolutely no dispute.
‘Over the last 12 months’. Godden has only effectively been with us 5 months! How about we wait until the end of the season and then we can all compare effectively like for like - instead of people making sweeping statements 18 games into the season.SporadicAddick said:having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.
And I really don’t think you can compare a player in the 1920’s to one playing today.5 -
Some less historical data would be that May has 6 goals in 22 games so far this season and Godden has 8 in 18. May has 1 goal in his last 11 league games and 2 in his last 17 in all competitions and one of those was against Fulham's u21s. Godden has 4 league goals in his last 11 league games and 8 in his last 17. So right now what's better about Godden than May is scoring goals. May made a good start but is bang out of form now, which isn't that unusual for him, he does have barren runs, but there's no denying that right now Godden is the one getting goals not May.SELR_addicks said:
You have eyes and yet you're trying to fight the battle on paper using historical data rather than just telling me what about Godden is better than May right now?FishCostaFortune said:
In a 100 years time if a neutral ever looked back and compared both players careers, who do you think they would say was the better player was?SELR_addicks said:
We have eyes and have watched both players.FishCostaFortune said:Why are some posters convinced May is better than Godden?
They both have a similar goal record, yet Godden has played at a consistently higher level.Whether it was the correct decision to sell May or not, time will tell. But to say that he is a ‘better player than Godden’ when he has indisputably had a ‘lesser career’, and is not out scoring him this year after playing more minutes in a vastly superior team - just does not make sense to me.
They’ve played at the same level 3 times at the same time during their careers. 2 of those times Godden vastly outscored May, and the 3rd time in this year where they are currently neck and neck.
Apart from that Godden has consistently played at a higher level, and yet there goal records are not that dissimilar.
Wierdly, I have ‘eyes’ to, and think it’s futile even trying to claim who you think is better based off the minutes Godden has played for us.
So again I find it weird that some people seem so sure in themselves that May is the better player with absolutely no dispute.
‘Over the last 12 months’. Godden has only effectively been with us 5 months! How about we wait until the end of the season and then we can all compare effectively like for like - instead of people making sweeping statements 18 games into the season.SporadicAddick said:having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.
And I really don’t think you can compare a player in the 1920’s to one playing today.
I'm sure in myself because I've watched both of them play for Charlton against similar opposition and across the pitch May offered more to the team than Godden.
This kind of thinking leads to thinking Harry Arter was a better player in 21/22 than George Dobson because Arter had played in the Premier League previously.
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Again talking about paper and data.Garrymanilow said:
Some less historical data would be that May has 6 goals in 22 games so far this season and Godden has 8 in 18. May has 1 goal in his last 11 league games and 2 in his last 17 in all competitions and one of those was against Fulham's u21s. Godden has 4 league goals in his last 11 league games and 8 in his last 17. So right now what's better about Godden than May is scoring goals. May made a good start but is bang out of form now, which isn't that unusual for him, he does have barren runs, but there's no denying that right now Godden is the one getting goals not May.SELR_addicks said:
You have eyes and yet you're trying to fight the battle on paper using historical data rather than just telling me what about Godden is better than May right now?FishCostaFortune said:
In a 100 years time if a neutral ever looked back and compared both players careers, who do you think they would say was the better player was?SELR_addicks said:
We have eyes and have watched both players.FishCostaFortune said:Why are some posters convinced May is better than Godden?
They both have a similar goal record, yet Godden has played at a consistently higher level.Whether it was the correct decision to sell May or not, time will tell. But to say that he is a ‘better player than Godden’ when he has indisputably had a ‘lesser career’, and is not out scoring him this year after playing more minutes in a vastly superior team - just does not make sense to me.
They’ve played at the same level 3 times at the same time during their careers. 2 of those times Godden vastly outscored May, and the 3rd time in this year where they are currently neck and neck.
Apart from that Godden has consistently played at a higher level, and yet there goal records are not that dissimilar.
Wierdly, I have ‘eyes’ to, and think it’s futile even trying to claim who you think is better based off the minutes Godden has played for us.
So again I find it weird that some people seem so sure in themselves that May is the better player with absolutely no dispute.
‘Over the last 12 months’. Godden has only effectively been with us 5 months! How about we wait until the end of the season and then we can all compare effectively like for like - instead of people making sweeping statements 18 games into the season.SporadicAddick said:having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.
And I really don’t think you can compare a player in the 1920’s to one playing today.
I'm sure in myself because I've watched both of them play for Charlton against similar opposition and across the pitch May offered more to the team than Godden.
This kind of thinking leads to thinking Harry Arter was a better player in 21/22 than George Dobson because Arter had played in the Premier League previously.
Watching the two players May is better.
Goals scored can be affected by a 100 different things. It's like claiming one goalkeeper is better than another because of clean sheets.8 -
Well I’ve watched both too and I claim Godden is better.
What now?
Usually numbers help in this kind of situation…5 -
The only result that can happen... MAKRO CAR PARK!!!!!!Callumcafc said:Well I’ve watched both too and I claim Godden is better.
What now?
Usually numbers help in this kind of situation…4 -
There are simply too many variables to make comparison using pure data.Callumcafc said:Well I’ve watched both too and I claim Godden is better.
What now?
Usually numbers help in this kind of situation…
Squad quality, formation, manager, style of play all different so it's not an easy like-for-like comparison.
Simple solution would be to poll the supporter base of those that have seen both play for Charlton, I think the winner would have a pretty comfortable cushion and tell you all that you need to know.6 -
Yes, paper and data. Facts as they're known. What's May contributing to Birmingham right now? He's got two assists in that same timeframe so he's not laying loads of goals on for others. Godden has one. May is getting alternated around between playing as a striker, a 10 and sometimes on the wing. He scored plenty of goals for us from 10 and the wing so that wouldn't necessarily make the goals dry up, and he hasn't scored a goal when playing as a striker since August. He's started 6 of the last 8 league games and got hooked in all of them, at half time against us. Your eyes should be telling you that right now May is having a bad season and Godden is having a pretty decent one. Even your argument about 'historical data' doesn't really work because you're comparing the Alfie May of last season to the Godden of this one. Unless you watch a lot of Birmingham City, in which case I'll be fascinated to know what he's currently doing for them that's visibly better than Godden for us?SELR_addicks said:
Again talking about paper and data.Garrymanilow said:
Some less historical data would be that May has 6 goals in 22 games so far this season and Godden has 8 in 18. May has 1 goal in his last 11 league games and 2 in his last 17 in all competitions and one of those was against Fulham's u21s. Godden has 4 league goals in his last 11 league games and 8 in his last 17. So right now what's better about Godden than May is scoring goals. May made a good start but is bang out of form now, which isn't that unusual for him, he does have barren runs, but there's no denying that right now Godden is the one getting goals not May.SELR_addicks said:
You have eyes and yet you're trying to fight the battle on paper using historical data rather than just telling me what about Godden is better than May right now?FishCostaFortune said:
In a 100 years time if a neutral ever looked back and compared both players careers, who do you think they would say was the better player was?SELR_addicks said:
We have eyes and have watched both players.FishCostaFortune said:Why are some posters convinced May is better than Godden?
They both have a similar goal record, yet Godden has played at a consistently higher level.Whether it was the correct decision to sell May or not, time will tell. But to say that he is a ‘better player than Godden’ when he has indisputably had a ‘lesser career’, and is not out scoring him this year after playing more minutes in a vastly superior team - just does not make sense to me.
They’ve played at the same level 3 times at the same time during their careers. 2 of those times Godden vastly outscored May, and the 3rd time in this year where they are currently neck and neck.
Apart from that Godden has consistently played at a higher level, and yet there goal records are not that dissimilar.
Wierdly, I have ‘eyes’ to, and think it’s futile even trying to claim who you think is better based off the minutes Godden has played for us.
So again I find it weird that some people seem so sure in themselves that May is the better player with absolutely no dispute.
‘Over the last 12 months’. Godden has only effectively been with us 5 months! How about we wait until the end of the season and then we can all compare effectively like for like - instead of people making sweeping statements 18 games into the season.SporadicAddick said:having seen them both play in the recent past, and having evaluated their respective contribution to our teams in the last 12 months, at this moment in time, and in terms of what they bring to the team, May is better than Godden.
Dixie Dean played at a consistently higher level than them both, but at this moment in time, he’s not as good as either of them.
And I really don’t think you can compare a player in the 1920’s to one playing today.
I'm sure in myself because I've watched both of them play for Charlton against similar opposition and across the pitch May offered more to the team than Godden.
This kind of thinking leads to thinking Harry Arter was a better player in 21/22 than George Dobson because Arter had played in the Premier League previously.
Watching the two players May is better.
Goals scored can be affected by a 100 different things. It's like claiming one goalkeeper is better than another because of clean sheets.
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You agree to disagree? It happens a fair amount.Callumcafc said:Well I’ve watched both too and I claim Godden is better.
What now?
Usually numbers help in this kind of situation…0 -
May hardly getting starts now even in cup matches .. he won’t be next season especially if they go up … Godden a far better all
round player2 -
That's it confirmed: May is betterRonnieMoore said:May hardly getting starts now even in cup matches .. he won’t be next season especially if they go up … Godden a far better all
round player
😄8 - Sponsored links:
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That we have an understandably negative fanbase where many would vote for May based on emotion?SELR_addicks said:
There are simply too many variables to make comparison using pure data.Callumcafc said:Well I’ve watched both too and I claim Godden is better.
What now?
Usually numbers help in this kind of situation…
Squad quality, formation, manager, style of play all different so it's not an easy like-for-like comparison.
Simple solution would be to poll the supporter base of those that have seen both play for Charlton, I think the winner would have a pretty comfortable cushion and tell you all that you need to know.
As players there’s not much between them. May a bit quicker, busier, roams about to get involved.
Godden a bit bigger so slightly better in the air and holding it up.
Both could score plenty at this level with decent service. Godden has a decent scoring record at a higher level but probably won’t get back there (unless we somehow get promoted this season).May should get to the Championship with Birmingham but my guess is his game time will reduce over time - they’ll want a player suited to being a lone striker or a proper 10/winger, and they appear to have the money to continually invest.
Neither could be a regular in a Championship title winning team like Yann was for Bournemouth. Although they were/are better goalscorers for us, he was the better all round footballer by far. Neither are quite at that level on all round ability.6 -
That’s actually pretty perfect. I’d say may is a slightly better finisher but like you say, hardly anything in it. Not enough to make it matter anyway.sam3110 said:May is faster, presses more and is a cleaner striker of the ball.
Godden has better control, is stronger and has better link up play.
Both have poachers instinct
There's not a huge amount in it for me1 -
I would also point out, that Godden is markedly better in the air...sam3110 said:May is faster, presses more and is a cleaner striker of the ball.
Godden has better control, is stronger and has better link up play.
Both have poachers instinct
There's not a huge amount in it for me
As in, he has won some headers!0 -
The revisionism on May's ability... He has been playing on the left behind Stansfield for most of the season so the goal comparisons aren't going to reveal much.
I'm not going to dig people out but there are one or two who have spent years spilling reams and massive paragraphs rationalising decisions the club have made, even when they were poor decisions. The reason we have been rubbish for ages is because of those decisions. If you once preached about how Innis was good enough for top 6 L1, or how Stockley was the right player to play lone striker, an ounce of self-awareness wouldn't go amiss.
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Don’t think he’ll be too bothered about not being there next season. He got a big pay rise going, he’ll probably get a big bonus if they go up, along with another pay rise.RonnieMoore said:May hardly getting starts now even in cup matches .. he won’t be next season especially if they go up … Godden a far better all
round player1 -
If I could choose one of them I'd choose May, although there's little in it.
However if Godden is the better player and was also cheaper.
How come Birmingham went for May rather than Godden?2 -
The bloke who thinks that Coventry is better than Dobson?RonnieMoore said:May hardly getting starts now even in cup matches .. he won’t be next season especially if they go up … Godden a far better all
round player
As @Henry Irving has pointed out, you've sealed the argument with your opinion.0 -
I want them both at Charlton but we are a minge of a club sloshing about in the middle of league one so it’s not gonna happen5
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I can’t believe this is being discussed, we haven’t decided who is better out of wagstaff and green yet!!!! One at a time please!13
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Not quite true. Even when he's behind Stansfield he's usually played as a 10 either on his own or in a twin 10s formation. He might pull wide but he's not playing on the left, he's in a central role. Even if he was though he went on his best run for Charlton (11 goals in 10 games) and scored 7 of those goals playing as either a 10 or on the right wing compared to the 4 he scored as a striker. He's quite capable of scoring goals from those positions, he just isn't at the moment. I think you're conflating some things here as well, I don't think there's many if any people who think selling May was a good decision, the current conversation is about who is currently playing better and, boringly, whether one is 'better' than the other. May was great for us last season. Godden has been good for us so far this season, I hope he keeps it up. May isn't doing great for Birmingham so far and needs to improve. I hope he will for his sake if not for Birmingham's but he'd scored 16 goals by this time last season, he'll be disappointed with his 6 so far. He had 6 at this time in 22/23 though as well and ended up with 22 goals so plenty of time for him to go on one of his goal runs and get his numbers up to something he'll be happy with.Chunes said:The revisionism on May's ability is sky high at the moment. May has been playing on the left behind Stansfield for most of the season so the goal comparisons aren't going to reveal much.
I'm not going to dig people out but there are one or two who have spent years spilling reams rationalising every poor decision the club makes. I don't know if they have noticed, but they haven't made many good decisions, and that's why we are where we are.
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