I don't wish we had owners like Birmingham do. I wish no League One club had owners like that. Football has been seized by Yank capital and it fucking sucks
Slagging off yanks and yank capital and then finishes the sentence with “sucks”.
I don't wish we had owners like Birmingham do. I wish no League One club had owners like that. Football has been seized by Yank capital and it fucking sucks
Easy to say but after the last 15 years or so I think most would enjoy being top of the league with a team that dominate possession, score goals and buy players that could potentially get them two consecutive promotions.
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
The Birmingham summer is a dangerous precedent for this level. Shouldn't be having sides spending £5m on a player let alone £15m or whatever the Stansfield fee was in the third tier it's just completely and utterly mad.
How can anyone compete with a side that can drop £30m in a window like it's nothing?
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
The Birmingham summer is a dangerous precedent for this level. Shouldn't be having sides spending £5m on a player let alone £15m or whatever the Stansfield fee was in the third tier it's just completely and utterly mad.
How can anyone compete with a side that can drop £30m in a window like it's nothing?
I think the current FFP rules incentivise teams with Premier League ambitions to spend big whilst in L1 if it reduces how much they’ll need to spend once in the Championship. You’ll probably see more of it in the future.
At his age with the career he's had I don't think it's unfair to say he didn't go there purely for football reasons. Good luck to him
Schools are pretty good up there I've heard
Think of the accent his kids will have when they grow up though. My son was born when we lived up there, but we quickly moved back to sarf east London to avoid the accent [irrelevant that I go a job with Unilever in Croydon]
The Birmingham summer is a dangerous precedent for this level. Shouldn't be having sides spending £5m on a player let alone £15m or whatever the Stansfield fee was in the third tier it's just completely and utterly mad.
How can anyone compete with a side that can drop £30m in a window like it's nothing?
I think the current FFP rules incentivise teams with Premier League ambitions to spend big whilst in L1 if it reduces how much they’ll need to spend once in the Championship. You’ll probably see more of it in the future.
From McGuires Twitter account
“ Birmingham City main investor Shelby Companies issues over 114 million new shares with a variety of voting rights. The £100m plus money raised counts towards League One ‘Football Fortune’ which allows £1 to be spent on wages for every £1 of shares issued. Suspect a lot will go into infrastructure at St Andrews though”
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
My question was:
"Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer?"
As for "If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears" the obvious glaring example is Sunderland in 2018-19, who spent £4m on Will Grigg, only to lose out to a team cobbled together with a couple of smart free transfers and even smarter loans, and had to bring in Josh Parker because the idiot owner "cashed in" on Karlan Grant for all of £1.5m.
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
My question was:
"Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer?"
As for "If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears" the obvious glaring example is Sunderland in 2018-19, who spent £4m on Will Grigg, only to lose out to a team cobbled together with a couple of smart free transfers and even smarter loans, and had to bring in Josh Parker because the idiot owner "cashed in" on Karlan Grant for all of £1.5m.
Ok and my answer is, why are you asking me this question then? I've just explained why I mentioned Wrexham. I don't think I need to go to much more into it.
Hardly a fantastic example is it? They still made the play off finals, lost to a very good league 1 side in us, and went up 2 years later, finishing in the play-offs again inbetween that, and it's hard to look at the covid season, as it was a bit of an anomaly.
The teams who finished above them when they lost another play-off final was Hull City and Peterborough, who both had very good squads that had a lot of valuable players in them at the time.
All in all, I don't think that's the best example, Sunderland were mainly paying big wages, over what Ipswich did and Birgmingham are doing. It still got them promoted, and kept them a very competitive team in this league for 3 seasons.
I'd like to see a team who have spent the wages or transfer fees of the likes of Hull, Blackburn, Sunderland, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday etc and not get promoted.
Money usually trumps all. That is a rule that is applicable to almost everything in life unfortunately.
I don't wish we had owners like Birmingham do. I wish no League One club had owners like that. Football has been seized by Yank capital and it fucking sucks
Slagging off yanks and yank capital and then finishes the sentence with “sucks”.
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
My question was:
"Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer?"
As for "If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears" the obvious glaring example is Sunderland in 2018-19, who spent £4m on Will Grigg, only to lose out to a team cobbled together with a couple of smart free transfers and even smarter loans, and had to bring in Josh Parker because the idiot owner "cashed in" on Karlan Grant for all of £1.5m.
Ok and my answer is, why are you asking me this question then? I've just explained why I mentioned Wrexham. I don't think I need to go to much more into it.
Hardly a fantastic example is it? They still made the play off finals, lost to a very good league 1 side in us, and went up 2 years later, finishing in the play-offs again inbetween that, and it's hard to look at the covid season, as it was a bit of an anomaly.
The teams who finished above them when they lost another play-off final was Hull City and Peterborough, who both had very good squads that had a lot of valuable players in them at the time.
All in all, I don't think that's the best example, Sunderland were mainly paying big wages, over what Ipswich did and Birgmingham are doing. It still got them promoted, and kept them a very competitive team in this league for 3 seasons.
I'd like to see a team who have spent the wages or transfer fees of the likes of Hull, Blackburn, Sunderland, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday etc and not get promoted.
Money usually trumps all. That is a rule that is applicable to almost everything in life unfortunately.
Actually in real-life business, you'll find that it isn't as automatic as you think it is. When it comes to football, there are studies that show that *over the long term* there is a correlation between money spent on fees and salaries, and team performance, but it hides many exceptions where arrogance and hubris resulted in under-performance, see e.g Man Utd. In League One the correlation actually gets weaker. Accrington are an excellent example of punching above financial weight over several seasons thanks to the leadership of Andy Holt.
I'm sorry you find my example, which was just the one that first came to my mind, isn't "fantastic". You don't seem to have noticed that the team that beat Sunderland that day was cobbled together on a budget well below the financial league table that season. Duchatelet had completely lost interest and wanted to sell - remember? Even Bow himself was appointed as the cut-price option. So your apparent hard and fast rule was broken by both clubs on that Wembley pitch that day. And even when we got promoted, it was widely reported that we had the lowest budget in the Champ, yet we survived until the very last day and would certainly have done if either Taylor or Gallagher's agent hadn't been complete dicks in pursuit of money.
Well our Yank capital is duller than the dullest dullard from dullardsville Arizona
You're right actually. Our Yank Capital Is Duller (And Therefore Less Morally Corrupt) Than Yours
I'd take an ownership of Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un and Benjamin Netanyahu with Osama Bin Laden as Director of Football if they could oversee the assemblance of a squad capable of nicking a win at Stevenage.
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
My question was:
"Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer?"
As for "If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears" the obvious glaring example is Sunderland in 2018-19, who spent £4m on Will Grigg, only to lose out to a team cobbled together with a couple of smart free transfers and even smarter loans, and had to bring in Josh Parker because the idiot owner "cashed in" on Karlan Grant for all of £1.5m.
Ok and my answer is, why are you asking me this question then? I've just explained why I mentioned Wrexham. I don't think I need to go to much more into it.
Hardly a fantastic example is it? They still made the play off finals, lost to a very good league 1 side in us, and went up 2 years later, finishing in the play-offs again inbetween that, and it's hard to look at the covid season, as it was a bit of an anomaly.
The teams who finished above them when they lost another play-off final was Hull City and Peterborough, who both had very good squads that had a lot of valuable players in them at the time.
All in all, I don't think that's the best example, Sunderland were mainly paying big wages, over what Ipswich did and Birgmingham are doing. It still got them promoted, and kept them a very competitive team in this league for 3 seasons.
I'd like to see a team who have spent the wages or transfer fees of the likes of Hull, Blackburn, Sunderland, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday etc and not get promoted.
Money usually trumps all. That is a rule that is applicable to almost everything in life unfortunately.
Actually in real-life business, you'll find that it isn't as automatic as you think it is. When it comes to football, there are studies that show that *over the long term* there is a correlation between money spent on fees and salaries, and team performance, but it hides many exceptions where arrogance and hubris resulted in under-performance, see e.g Man Utd. In League One the correlation actually gets weaker. Accrington are an excellent example of punching above financial weight over several seasons thanks to the leadership of Andy Holt.
I'm sorry you find my example, which was just the one that first came to my mind, isn't "fantastic". You don't seem to have noticed that the team that beat Sunderland that day was cobbled together on a budget well below the financial league table that season. Duchatelet had completely lost interest and wanted to sell - remember? Even Bow himself was appointed as the cut-price option. So your apparent hard and fast rule was broken by both clubs on that Wembley pitch that day. And even when we got promoted, it was widely reported that we had the lowest budget in the Champ, yet we survived until the very last day and would certainly have done if either Taylor or Gallagher's agent hadn't been complete dicks in pursuit of money.
Man United aren't winning because there are teams spending as much as them or a similar amount, and they have internal issues. Take away the clubs that spend more, or similar, and they'd win the league. That's how almost every single top flight title has been decided ever. That applies to almost every other top flight league as well. The best players and best managers win, they are secured with big contracts. Sorry if I sound condescending typing it as simple as that, as I may be? I dunno. That's just how I see it though.
Accrington Stanley did well, agreed, now they're slowly but surely going to end up back in non-league by the looks of it. Already replaced in recent years by big National League spenders like Wrexham, Stockport, Notts County.
As for the play-offs, it's a lottery. It's literally anyone's game. We nearly lost to Doncaster, if it wasn't for a very late equaliser. The point still stands, if you buy or bring in the best, you are far more likely to finish better. Had Lyle gone to Sunderland instead, they probably would have gone up automatically.
Either way, this will go round in circles now. You simply can't convince me money isn't everything in football, cause in my mind, I know it is. You believe it isn't everything, and that doesn't bother me, that's your view, like mine is.
There will never be a team in this league that buys pure quality and doesn't reap the rewards eventually. That's just the way it is in my mind, and how it's played out over the years.
It can't be as simple as spending money. We spend way more than Stevenage and still can't beat them. Wouldn't really want this recruitment team or our past one to be given another 5 million when they've brought in the likes of which we've seen.
If we actually started performing near to the level of our budget, then perhaps we could start to argue we should spend more.
It can't be as simple as spending money. We spend way more than Stevenage and still can't beat them. Wouldn't really want this recruitment team or our past one to be given another 5 million when they've brought in the likes of which we've seen.
If we actually started performing near to the level of our budget, then perhaps we could start to argue we should spend more.
Stevenage aren't who I am worried about though, they will still probably finish below us, I am talking over the course of 46 games here, not just a single blip.
We will never know as a club if the money experiment doesn't work, as no one has tried to in recent years, the one bloke who did, was completely ill advised, and signed duds in Sandgaard.
Like Roland or not, the signings he spent money on, did fairly well for the most part. JBG, Holmes, Naby, Lyle, Bauer, none of those would have been cheap wages wise, and we faced competition, but they all had a decent impact. Ajose was a flop, but again, that's just how it goes sometimes.
So far, these owners have been less ambitious than TS and Roland imo. Not saying I want either of them back, or look back on either fondly, but both of those owners were more ambitious at one stage. I am hoping these owners at some point will show something similar, but with the right people in place. Nathan Jones fits that bill, shame about the people around him.
Well our Yank capital is duller than the dullest dullard from dullardsville Arizona
You're right actually. Our Yank Capital Is Duller (And Therefore Less Morally Corrupt) Than Yours
I'd take an ownership of Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un and Benjamin Netanyahu with Osama Bin Laden as Director of Football if they could oversee the assemblance of a squad capable of nicking a win at Stevenage.
I don't wish we had owners like Birmingham do. I wish no League One club had owners like that. Football has been seized by Yank capital and it fucking sucks
Slagging off yanks and yank capital and then finishes the sentence with “sucks”.
I don't wish we had owners like Birmingham do. I wish no League One club had owners like that. Football has been seized by Yank capital and it fucking sucks
Slagging off yanks and yank capital and then finishes the sentence with “sucks”.
I don't wish we had owners like Birmingham do. I wish no League One club had owners like that. Football has been seized by Yank capital and it fucking sucks
Slagging off yanks and yank capital and then finishes the sentence with “sucks”.
Sorry Mike, but that's a phrase from this side of the pond. First known use was by Compton Mackenzie* in his Sinister Street, 1913. Your comment was funny though.
I don't wish we had owners like Birmingham do. I wish no League One club had owners like that. Football has been seized by Yank capital and it fucking sucks
Slagging off yanks and yank capital and then finishes the sentence with “sucks”.
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
Sunderland spent 4m on Will Grigg and others in league one but didn’t not get promoted for a number of years. It has to be a balancing act of
- style of play that gets results. - good management - quality players
any one of those 3 out of balance and the team won’t succeed over a season.
Seemingly at the beginning of the season we had all 3 but the style of play is now starting to grate and too reliant on not conceding rather than scoring.
It is also becoming increasingly clear that we do not have the quality in the final 3rd so 2/3 in the balancing act are not evident (at the moment).
We need to try something different in the final 3rd on Tuesday night.
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
Sunderland spent 4m on Will Grigg and others in league one but didn’t not get promoted for a number of years. It has to be a balancing act of
- style of play that gets results. - good management - quality players
any one of those 3 out of balance and the team won’t succeed over a season.
Seemingly at the beginning of the season we had all 3 but the style of play is now starting to grate and too reliant on not conceding rather than scoring.
It is also becoming increasingly clear that we do not have the quality in the final 3rd so 2/3 in the balancing act are not evident (at the moment).
We need to try something different in the final 3rd on Tuesday night.
Sunderland did, but then they also did get promoted, and also very nearly did it twice before they finally did. They still showed that spending money gains promotion or at the very least a competitive side near the top of the table. All clubs make dud signings, their money still enabled them to sign other quality players, especially wages wise.
Style of play is gained by a balance of a good manager and good players. Both acquired with money. That is the only way. Good players and managers don't grow or trees, and when they do, they're soon bought by a bigger club.
We probably need to play more defensive and set the main goal as never conceding, cause these players are no capable of playing liquid football, and our manager doesn't have a record of getting teams to play that way. I've already accepted its not a promotion season and I am hoping Jones can keep his job and be allowed to sign good players and we don't lose the decent players we currently have, like we usually do.
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
My question was:
"Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer?"
As for "If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears" the obvious glaring example is Sunderland in 2018-19, who spent £4m on Will Grigg, only to lose out to a team cobbled together with a couple of smart free transfers and even smarter loans, and had to bring in Josh Parker because the idiot owner "cashed in" on Karlan Grant for all of £1.5m.
in fairness though that's one club in how many recent years who failed to win promotion? Generally a side spending lots of money in the lower leagues will get promoted eventually.
Also to add the Birmingham debate, yes the money they've spent is crazy but the ridiculous FFP rules allow them to spend loads in league one, but not in the championship. Owners are allowed to invest money for transfers which counts towards turnover in league one, but that is not the case in the championship.
So they're actually being quite smart and basically spending the money now, knowing they won't face sanctions, to build a team to try and get 2 promotions.
It's a rule that will surely have to change, as if you're a club with a rich owner treading water in the championship, it's potentially better to take a relegation, do a full squad rebuild and come back with a much better side.
Birmingham spending 30m in league one is crazy, but is 30m for a side that will likely compete for the play offs in the championship next year that crazy? Probably not.
I fully expect the rules to change surrounding FFP to stop this ever being allowed again. It's just taking the piss out of the rest of the league because again the EFL have mucked up on rules.
That last sentence Chris also scares me long term - the thought that to be moderately competitive in the championship you need to be spending £20-30m a year on signings.....
I fully expect the rules to change surrounding FFP to stop this ever being allowed again. It's just taking the piss out of the rest of the league because again the EFL have mucked up on rules.
That last sentence Chris also scares me long term - the thought that to be moderately competitive in the championship you need to be spending £20-30m a year on signings.....
Not saying you have to spend that at all, a lot of clubs don't. Luton and Ipswich certainly didn't. Just making the point that people are focusing on them spending 30m in league one, but looking at the bigger picture, 30m to build a potential top end championship side is probably not so bad.
I fully expect the rules to change surrounding FFP to stop this ever being allowed again. It's just taking the piss out of the rest of the league because again the EFL have mucked up on rules.
That last sentence Chris also scares me long term - the thought that to be moderately competitive in the championship you need to be spending £20-30m a year on signings.....
Not saying you have to spend that at all, a lot of clubs don't. Luton and Ipswich certainly didn't. Just making the point that people are focusing on them spending 30m in league one, but looking at the bigger picture, 30m to build a potential top end championship side is probably not so bad.
Totally agree, it would hopefully save another rebuild going into a new season.
Of course people will say what if you do not go up straight away, but this has to be a gamble to take, and also keep faith with the manager and players should promotion not come but have been very close to achieving the aim.
It looks like its FFP doping , but it is a smart way of doing it if you have the money. They chuck 100 + million into the club now and have plenty of cash left over when they get into the championship. You would need a huge amount of confidence in the clubs execs to spend it wisely though.
Just shows the levels. Our best player, and who would still be our best player, has been bought by them just because they can. We should have held out for more.
People mock the Birgmingham situation, and Wrexhams. But I'd love to have owners like either of them, especially Birmingham. Proper ambitious owners. I don't know anything about ours, except Methven who is the biggest mouth piece who wasn't even meant to be originally.
Complete worlds apart.
Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer? As far as I am aware that's not true. Wrexham are where they are with two players we all generally agreed were not good enough for us, and a third that wasn't deemed good enough by a key member of the management team, whose opinion on the matter should not even have been sought. Our current owners have delegated responsibility for football matters to "football people", unlike previous owners going back to Duchatelet. Responsibility for our performance and results compared with Birmingham and Wrexham lies squarely with the current football management. And while I agree that with @Leuth that Birmingham's spending is grotesque and ought not ot be possible, there are plenty of examples of club owners who splashed the cash and failed to reap the rewards and acclaim they assumed they were entitled to.
To be fair, I don't think I've said that Wrexham have spent loads? I just grouped them with Birmingham as they're so involved with their club like their owners.
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
My question was:
"Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer?"
As for "If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears" the obvious glaring example is Sunderland in 2018-19, who spent £4m on Will Grigg, only to lose out to a team cobbled together with a couple of smart free transfers and even smarter loans, and had to bring in Josh Parker because the idiot owner "cashed in" on Karlan Grant for all of £1.5m.
in fairness though that's one club in how many recent years who failed to win promotion? Generally a side spending lots of money in the lower leagues will get promoted eventually.
Also to add the Birmingham debate, yes the money they've spent is crazy but the ridiculous FFP rules allow them to spend loads in league one, but not in the championship. Owners are allowed to invest money for transfers which counts towards turnover in league one, but that is not the case in the championship.
So they're actually being quite smart and basically spending the money now, knowing they won't face sanctions, to build a team to try and get 2 promotions.
It's a rule that will surely have to change, as if you're a club with a rich owner treading water in the championship, it's potentially better to take a relegation, do a full squad rebuild and come back with a much better side.
Birmingham spending 30m in league one is crazy, but is 30m for a side that will likely compete for the play offs in the championship next year that crazy? Probably not.
I quite admire that approach, wish we could find some owners willing to splash that sort of cash. Instead they'll cover £10m losses for 3 years to just stand still. Football is broken
I wouldn't be surprised to see them spend another 15-20m in January. Why wouldn't you if you're prepared to invest and can do so without any sanctions?
Comments
How can anyone compete with a side that can drop £30m in a window like it's nothing?
It's the revenue that Wrexhams owners have brought in. The sponsors, the awareness. The people who call the shots at this club just aren't as commercially savvy, or have the power to be.
Those clubs are certainly ran better than ours, currently. It would just be nice to have that sort of ownership than the types we usually get.
In regards to money, there is no club at this level, that will spend a lot and not get promoted. That is the nature of football. There are of course clubs who will spend smart and do it gradually, but a more likely scenario is the club who spends more.
If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears, but I've never seen it. Buying the best players will get you the best results. On the occasions we have brought in the best players (Alfie May, Lyle, Ricky Holmes) they have shown the difference it makes in terms of quality provided. This transfer window was no different from the types of windows we have seen for years under bad owners. I was ridiculed for that, but it's the truth. I don't believe Jones has been 'completely backed'. He may say he has to the press, as he has to, but I don't believe for one second he was truly happy with the transfer window.
“ Birmingham City main investor Shelby Companies issues over 114 million new shares with a variety of voting rights. The £100m plus money raised counts towards League One ‘Football Fortune’ which allows £1 to be spent on wages for every £1 of shares issued. Suspect a lot will go into infrastructure at St Andrews though”
"Do you have facts available to support your apparent assertion that Wrexham have spent significantly more than us on the squad this summer?"
As for "If you can find me one example of a club in league1 who has spent a lot of money and didn't get promoted, I'm all ears" the obvious glaring example is Sunderland in 2018-19, who spent £4m on Will Grigg, only to lose out to a team cobbled together with a couple of smart free transfers and even smarter loans, and had to bring in Josh Parker because the idiot owner "cashed in" on Karlan Grant for all of £1.5m.
Hardly a fantastic example is it? They still made the play off finals, lost to a very good league 1 side in us, and went up 2 years later, finishing in the play-offs again inbetween that, and it's hard to look at the covid season, as it was a bit of an anomaly.
The teams who finished above them when they lost another play-off final was Hull City and Peterborough, who both had very good squads that had a lot of valuable players in them at the time.
All in all, I don't think that's the best example, Sunderland were mainly paying big wages, over what Ipswich did and Birgmingham are doing. It still got them promoted, and kept them a very competitive team in this league for 3 seasons.
I'd like to see a team who have spent the wages or transfer fees of the likes of Hull, Blackburn, Sunderland, Ipswich, Sheffield Wednesday etc and not get promoted.
Money usually trumps all. That is a rule that is applicable to almost everything in life unfortunately.
I'm sorry you find my example, which was just the one that first came to my mind, isn't "fantastic". You don't seem to have noticed that the team that beat Sunderland that day was cobbled together on a budget well below the financial league table that season. Duchatelet had completely lost interest and wanted to sell - remember? Even Bow himself was appointed as the cut-price option. So your apparent hard and fast rule was broken by both clubs on that Wembley pitch that day. And even when we got promoted, it was widely reported that we had the lowest budget in the Champ, yet we survived until the very last day and would certainly have done if either Taylor or Gallagher's agent hadn't been complete dicks in pursuit of money.
I'd take an ownership of Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong Un and Benjamin Netanyahu with Osama Bin Laden as Director of Football if they could oversee the assemblance of a squad capable of nicking a win at Stevenage.
Accrington Stanley did well, agreed, now they're slowly but surely going to end up back in non-league by the looks of it. Already replaced in recent years by big National League spenders like Wrexham, Stockport, Notts County.
As for the play-offs, it's a lottery. It's literally anyone's game. We nearly lost to Doncaster, if it wasn't for a very late equaliser. The point still stands, if you buy or bring in the best, you are far more likely to finish better. Had Lyle gone to Sunderland instead, they probably would have gone up automatically.
Either way, this will go round in circles now. You simply can't convince me money isn't everything in football, cause in my mind, I know it is. You believe it isn't everything, and that doesn't bother me, that's your view, like mine is.
There will never be a team in this league that buys pure quality and doesn't reap the rewards eventually. That's just the way it is in my mind, and how it's played out over the years.
If we actually started performing near to the level of our budget, then perhaps we could start to argue we should spend more.
We will never know as a club if the money experiment doesn't work, as no one has tried to in recent years, the one bloke who did, was completely ill advised, and signed duds in Sandgaard.
Like Roland or not, the signings he spent money on, did fairly well for the most part. JBG, Holmes, Naby, Lyle, Bauer, none of those would have been cheap wages wise, and we faced competition, but they all had a decent impact. Ajose was a flop, but again, that's just how it goes sometimes.
So far, these owners have been less ambitious than TS and Roland imo. Not saying I want either of them back, or look back on either fondly, but both of those owners were more ambitious at one stage. I am hoping these owners at some point will show something similar, but with the right people in place. Nathan Jones fits that bill, shame about the people around him.
*Best known for Whiskey Galore
- style of play that gets results.
- good management
- quality players
any one of those 3 out of balance and the team won’t succeed over a season.
Style of play is gained by a balance of a good manager and good players. Both acquired with money. That is the only way. Good players and managers don't grow or trees, and when they do, they're soon bought by a bigger club.
We probably need to play more defensive and set the main goal as never conceding, cause these players are no capable of playing liquid football, and our manager doesn't have a record of getting teams to play that way. I've already accepted its not a promotion season and I am hoping Jones can keep his job and be allowed to sign good players and we don't lose the decent players we currently have, like we usually do.
Also to add the Birmingham debate, yes the money they've spent is crazy but the ridiculous FFP rules allow them to spend loads in league one, but not in the championship. Owners are allowed to invest money for transfers which counts towards turnover in league one, but that is not the case in the championship.
So they're actually being quite smart and basically spending the money now, knowing they won't face sanctions, to build a team to try and get 2 promotions.
It's a rule that will surely have to change, as if you're a club with a rich owner treading water in the championship, it's potentially better to take a relegation, do a full squad rebuild and come back with a much better side.
Birmingham spending 30m in league one is crazy, but is 30m for a side that will likely compete for the play offs in the championship next year that crazy? Probably not.
That last sentence Chris also scares me long term - the thought that to be moderately competitive in the championship you need to be spending £20-30m a year on signings.....