I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................

Braziliance

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

Wasn't must win games though I was told. 

Callumcafc

The Red Robin said:

Watch any team on any EFL Highlights shows as a basic comparison. They all play better, more direct, more creative football than us. Or watch a few of them live on Sky etc. it’s the same. It can’t all be the players. It’s basic coaching. 

Mad that every team is better than us - we must be rock bottom no hopers and long since relegated.

Oh we’re 18th..?

LargeAddick

Callumcafc said:

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

And yet we’re above both in the league. Would’ve been nice if the gap was bigger but I’d still rather be us than be them.

I’d swear that if we were four points adrift of safety with just one game to play you’d still put a positive spin on it.

MrWalker

LargeAddick said:

QCallumcafc said:

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

And yet we’re above both in the league. Would’ve been nice if the gap was bigger but I’d still rather be us than be them.

I’d swear that if we were four points adrift of safety with just one game to play you’d still put a positive spin on it.

Except Callum is right. 

Statistically and emotionally 

DamoNorthStand

MrWalker said:

LargeAddick said:

QCallumcafc said:

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

And yet we’re above both in the league. Would’ve been nice if the gap was bigger but I’d still rather be us than be them.

I’d swear that if we were four points adrift of safety with just one game to play you’d still put a positive spin on it.

Except Callum is right. 

Statistically and emotionally 

How do we judge who we are better than?

The league table as it stands, or the form table over the last, say, 15 games.

I think you would learn more (and gain a more accurate reading) from the latter.

MrWalker

And yet the former  is where we are.

NabySarr

ElfsborgAddick said:

Another factor with Jones is that for too long now he'll make many changes from one game to the next, a settled team would make things a lot better imo.

I agree, but the problem is everyone keeps playing badly so it’s hard to keep playing them. I think he needs to just pick what he thinks is his best team and stick with it. We went through similar last season though where he couldn’t work it out and then something clicked, he’s trying to find something that works and hopefully will stumble on something soon

What’s frustrating is that even just a month ago it felt like we were getting somewhere with a Leaburn and Kelman partnership, Costello playing well in midfield. I felt like we were getting closer to clicking but since the Chelsea game we’ve gone backwards 

siblers

Callumcafc said:

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

And yet we’re above both in the league. Would’ve been nice if the gap was bigger but I’d still rather be us than be them.

Portsmouth looking more and more likely to leapfrog us. They'll fancy their chances at The Valley

superclive98

siblers said:

Callumcafc said:

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

And yet we’re above both in the league. Would’ve been nice if the gap was bigger but I’d still rather be us than be them.

Portsmouth looking more and more likely to leapfrog us. They'll fancy their chances at The Valley

As will every other team that visits us.

Chunes

MrWalker said:

And yet the former  is where we are.

So we're a better team than Norwich...?

Bedsaddick

The way I see it is we’re the second worst team in the league who got early points through the momentum of promotion. Blackburn and Oxford are arguably as poor but after Saturday I can’t see us finishing anything other than second from bottom unless we either change the manager or splash out this week on some quality but players like that are expensive and few and far between and probably wouldn’t want to come to Charlton to fight in a relegation battle anyway.

Callumcafc

DamoNorthStand said:

MrWalker said:

LargeAddick said:

QCallumcafc said:

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

And yet we’re above both in the league. Would’ve been nice if the gap was bigger but I’d still rather be us than be them.

I’d swear that if we were four points adrift of safety with just one game to play you’d still put a positive spin on it.

Except Callum is right. 

Statistically and emotionally 

How do we judge who we are better than?

The league table as it stands, or the form table over the last, say, 15 games.

I think you would learn more (and gain a more accurate reading) from the latter.

It’s not the form table that decides which teams go down.

Obviously if the shit form continues we know what it means, but that’s why it’s form. Because it tends to vary over a 46 game season.

How many times in football have you thought “where’s the next win coming from?” and then it appears.

How many people thought we’d do Northampton 5-0 at their place last December before it happened? And how many people thought our supposed League One squad would win 3-0 at Portman Road this season?

We were always going to have a bad spell this year - and it’s lasting a bit longer than is comfortable for anyone. What’s yet to be seen is how and when we react to it. 

What’s the point in being a supporter if you can’t believe in your team?

superclive98

Callumcafc said:

DamoNorthStand said:

MrWalker said:

LargeAddick said:

QCallumcafc said:

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

And yet we’re above both in the league. Would’ve been nice if the gap was bigger but I’d still rather be us than be them.

I’d swear that if we were four points adrift of safety with just one game to play you’d still put a positive spin on it.

Except Callum is right. 

Statistically and emotionally 

How do we judge who we are better than?

The league table as it stands, or the form table over the last, say, 15 games.

I think you would learn more (and gain a more accurate reading) from the latter.

It’s not the form table that decides which teams go down.

Obviously if the shit form continues we know what it means, but that’s why it’s form. Because it tends to vary over a 46 game season.

How many times in football have you thought “where’s the next win coming from?” and then it appears.

How many people thought we’d do Northampton 5-0 at their place last December before it happened? And how many people thought our supposed League One squad would win 3-0 at Portman Road this season?

We were always going to have a bad spell this year - and it’s lasting a bit longer than is comfortable for anyone. What’s yet to be seen is how and when we react to it. 

What’s the point in being a supporter if you can’t believe in your team?

Because you don't have to have blind belief.
We all hope that we stay up but performances like yesterday don't help that belief, especially when good performances are few and far between.

The Red Robin

Callumcafc said:

The Red Robin said:

Watch any team on any EFL Highlights shows as a basic comparison. They all play better, more direct, more creative football than us. Or watch a few of them live on Sky etc. it’s the same. It can’t all be the players. It’s basic coaching. 

Mad that every team is better than us - we must be rock bottom no hopers and long since relegated.

Oh we’re 18th..?

Go and watch them.

Dazzler21

Chunes said:

MrWalker said:

And yet the former  is where we are.

So we're a better team than Norwich...?

Over the course of the season so far...

Callumcafc

superclive98 said:

Callumcafc said:

DamoNorthStand said:

MrWalker said:

LargeAddick said:

QCallumcafc said:

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

And yet we’re above both in the league. Would’ve been nice if the gap was bigger but I’d still rather be us than be them.

I’d swear that if we were four points adrift of safety with just one game to play you’d still put a positive spin on it.

Except Callum is right. 

Statistically and emotionally 

How do we judge who we are better than?

The league table as it stands, or the form table over the last, say, 15 games.

I think you would learn more (and gain a more accurate reading) from the latter.

It’s not the form table that decides which teams go down.

Obviously if the shit form continues we know what it means, but that’s why it’s form. Because it tends to vary over a 46 game season.

How many times in football have you thought “where’s the next win coming from?” and then it appears.

How many people thought we’d do Northampton 5-0 at their place last December before it happened? And how many people thought our supposed League One squad would win 3-0 at Portman Road this season?

We were always going to have a bad spell this year - and it’s lasting a bit longer than is comfortable for anyone. What’s yet to be seen is how and when we react to it. 

What’s the point in being a supporter if you can’t believe in your team?

Because you don't have to have blind belief.
We all hope that we stay up but performances like yesterday don't help that belief, especially when good performances are few and far between.

It’s not blind belief. I know we have our problems. I know that other clubs have similar problems, or they wouldn’t be down here with us. 

Go read something like the r/Championship reddit and you’ll see Blackburn, West Brom, Portsmouth fans bemoaning the exact same things. We won’t all be relegated.

We have to scratch and claw for the next 20 points between now and May. It’s not beyond achieving.

oohaahmortimer

NabySarr said:

blackpool72 said:

NabySarr said:

blackpool72 said:

His insistence of playing Campbell at left wing back as he done again 2nd half yesterday is absolutely baffling. 
Even a blind person can see it doesn't work and I can only assume he keeps doing it through stubbornness. 
Pisses me off.

He does it because there is no one else to play there. Do you really think he wants to play him there? 

If you haven't got the players to play a wingback system, change it.
To keep playing Campbell at left wing back is bollox 

We don’t have the players to play any system though. That’s the problem when you have no left back fit to play. Campbell at LWB was the least bad solution, it’s not a good solution but what else can we have done this last couple of months ? Hopefully now with Chambers and more coming in we won’t have to see it again 

Not play Amari’i Bell against Chelsea 

oohaahmortimer

LargeAddick said:

The Red Robin said:

Those two points dropped at Blackburn and point dropped at Pompey are looking pretty costly today. 

It’s not only the points we dropped but the fact we allowed Blackburn to earn a point and Pompey to earn all three. Two massive results.

Some would say 6 pointers/must not lose games 

oohaahmortimer

NabySarr said:

Melrose said:

Unlikely to do it a second time round because it looks quite clear he's lost the players. The evidence is there. Won't play Apter, pissed off the Doc, dropped Carey, and so on. The Millwall debacle surely suggests this.

People were saying the exact same things a year ago on this very thread and it turned out to be a load of bollocks. Truth is none of us know what the relationship between Jones and the players is like 

It’s well over a year ago, we’re a quarter of the season deeper ,the previous 10-15 games have shown an horrific return of points compared to 14 months ago. 

Chris_from_Sidcup

For those saying we shouldn't get rid of Jones because they don't see anyone else who could do better, and it's the players who are not really good enough, look at the turnaround at Man U.

If you put aside the obvious gulf in quality of our players there are a few similarities. Manager playing 352 despite them not having the players to play it, players shoehorned out of position to fit the formation, manager absolutely refuses to budge from 'his way', players criticised as not being good enough, manager falling out with players (for Apter/Doc, see Mainoo/Rashford/Hojlund), occasional good results but overall the team looks generally poor.

No one would class Carrick as a top manager yet he's gone in there with the exact same players, changed to a different formation and they look a completely different side.

I don't for a single second believe Carrick is some tactical guru but sometimes all it needs is a different voice, fresh approach, arm round the players instead of being abrasive and ensuring the players give their all for you. Right now i cannot say these players appear to be giving their all for Jones, which is the biggest worry for me. He needs a big performance from the team on Saturday to silence the (ever growing number of) doubters.

carly burn

Really hoping the owners give Jones the money to buy some really expensive square pegs!

WillmoreTheRed

I really hope we don’t give him anymore money to waste. Look at this recruitment so far, assuming all these are his picks: Ahadme, Mitchell, Tanto, Roulisson, Apter, Doc, JRC. 

The few he has bought with promise he drops or doesn’t play. Honestly doesn’t make sense, it’s as if he gambles on every signing - “oh he’s a right winger but I’ll slot him at RWB and just hope it works” rather than going for someone in their natural position or finding a system to fit his players.

The stubbornness with loans - which he then decides to use in the middle of a crisis, you could of had a far better pick at the loan market if you’d have accepted we needed it from the start.

carly burn

I'm trying to get my head around how serious this whole 'thing' with Doch is? It's Huge imo

I'm not his biggest fan,but He is our captain and has been completely removed from not only the first team but the entire squad!
If that doesn't send tidal waves through a dressing room I don't know what will.

Chris_from_Sidcup

WillmoreTheRed said:

I really hope we don’t give him anymore money to waste. Look at this recruitment so far, assuming all these are his picks: Ahadme, Mitchell, Tanto, Roulisson, Apter, Doc, JRC. 

The few he has bought with promise he drops or doesn’t play. Honestly doesn’t make sense, it’s as if he gambles on every signing - “oh he’s a right winger but I’ll slot him at RWB and just hope it works” rather than going for someone in their natural position or finding a system to fit his players.

The stubbornness with loans - which he then decides to use in the middle of a crisis, you could of had a far better pick at the loan market if you’d have accepted we needed it from the start.

Mitchell and Doc both did a job in getting us promoted.
Roussillon was clearly just emergency backup.
JRC i think is a decent enough player and he's been in this league for a few years. Just underused by Jones.
Apter is a strange one as i think he's a good player with a lot of potential, just doesn't fit the way Jones wants to play.
The only bad signings there are Ahadme and Tanto.

WillmoreTheRed

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

WillmoreTheRed said:

I really hope we don’t give him anymore money to waste. Look at this recruitment so far, assuming all these are his picks: Ahadme, Mitchell, Tanto, Roulisson, Apter, Doc, JRC. 

The few he has bought with promise he drops or doesn’t play. Honestly doesn’t make sense, it’s as if he gambles on every signing - “oh he’s a right winger but I’ll slot him at RWB and just hope it works” rather than going for someone in their natural position or finding a system to fit his players.

The stubbornness with loans - which he then decides to use in the middle of a crisis, you could of had a far better pick at the loan market if you’d have accepted we needed it from the start.

Mitchell and Doc both did a job in getting us promoted.
Roussillon was clearly just emergency backup.
JRC i think is a decent enough player and he's been in this league for a few years. Just underused by Jones.
Apter is a strange one as i think he's a good player with a lot of potential, just doesn't fit the way Jones wants to play.
The only bad signings there are Ahadme and Tanto.

I’m not saying they are all bad I’m saying all of them even the ones with promise or quality end up out of the team for unknown reasons.

Why did it take so long for JRC to get any minutes at all? Why’s Doc now disappeared? Why buy Apter and leave him sat there when we are so in need of some creativity?

MarcusH26

Doc was a free anyway, not fair to put him on that list. Alex Mitchell was seen as a bit of a coup to fight off a lot of other clubs to sign him and it made sense at League 1 level.  

It's only Ahadme (no idea what was going on there) and Tanto (doesn't fit the system) that I have some problems with. 

closet_addick

CAFCBourne said:

MarcusH26 said:

Just bored of sufferball shit tactics. You can't go to The Den and roll over like that. 

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen us do anything different to excactly that

Someone should make an animated movie of a tired, sickly haddock wearing a Charlton shirt being thrown into a lion's den and get torn to shreds by a big cat wearing a Millwall shirt. 

raytreacy

The atmosphere at the moment with the players towards Jones is not good. Docherty is not the only player who has fallen out with Jones. Numerous arguments at the training ground. This is coming from a very good source. I wouldn’t put it on here otherwise.
Jones needs to get together with the players and clear the air. You could tell from Saturday that something was wrong. I have also been told some more things which I was told I couldn’t post on a public Forum.

NabySarr

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

For those saying we shouldn't get rid of Jones because they don't see anyone else who could do better, and it's the players who are not really good enough, look at the turnaround at Man U.

If you put aside the obvious gulf in quality of our players there are a few similarities. Manager playing 352 despite them not having the players to play it, players shoehorned out of position to fit the formation, manager absolutely refuses to budge from 'his way', players criticised as not being good enough, manager falling out with players (for Apter/Doc, see Mainoo/Rashford/Hojlund), occasional good results but overall the team looks generally poor.

No one would class Carrick as a top manager yet he's gone in there with the exact same players, changed to a different formation and they look a completely different side.

I don't for a single second believe Carrick is some tactical guru but sometimes all it needs is a different voice, fresh approach, arm round the players instead of being abrasive and ensuring the players give their all for you. Right now i cannot say these players appear to be giving their all for Jones, which is the biggest worry for me. He needs a big performance from the team on Saturday to silence the (ever growing number of) doubters.

Big difference here is that Amorim never had his squad. He had to use all the players previous managers had signed, so most of them didn’t fit his system. Their squad fitted 4-2-3-1 much more than it did Amorim’s 3-4-2-1 

Jones signed nearly all these players for his system. As much as some people can’t see it, this squad has been built for 3 at the back. If a new manager came in and switched to a 4 we’d be really struggling at centre back, wingers (we only have 2), and up top all our strikers are best in a pairing. We’d end up with more problems than we have now 

The truth is, if a new manager came in and looked at this squad, they’d most likely play 3-5-2 because that’s what the squad has been built for and suits the most 

Talal

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

WillmoreTheRed said:

I really hope we don’t give him anymore money to waste. Look at this recruitment so far, assuming all these are his picks: Ahadme, Mitchell, Tanto, Roulisson, Apter, Doc, JRC. 

The few he has bought with promise he drops or doesn’t play. Honestly doesn’t make sense, it’s as if he gambles on every signing - “oh he’s a right winger but I’ll slot him at RWB and just hope it works” rather than going for someone in their natural position or finding a system to fit his players.

The stubbornness with loans - which he then decides to use in the middle of a crisis, you could of had a far better pick at the loan market if you’d have accepted we needed it from the start.

Mitchell and Doc both did a job in getting us promoted.
Roussillon was clearly just emergency backup.
JRC i think is a decent enough player and he's been in this league for a few years. Just underused by Jones.
Apter is a strange one as i think he's a good player with a lot of potential, just doesn't fit the way Jones wants to play.
The only bad signings there are Ahadme and Tanto.

I've read a few times about Roussillon being signed as emergency backup but what exactly constitutes an emergency? In football terms I'd suggest we've had our emergency in that position and he's nowhere to be seen. Completely pointless signing.