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I am going to say it!! Yes I am, Nathan Jones......................
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Ok. Got you. If you had to rank our squad based on the level to which they can 'play a bit', where would they rank?Leuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.0 -
Fair enough you’ve just made me laugh out loud. Hilarious stuffLeuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.0 -
He made 21 appearances for the play-off finalists, where's the jokeNabySarr said:
Fair enough you’ve just made me laugh out loud. Hilarious stuffLeuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.0 -
I don’t think this works as an argument really.DOUCHER said:I like NJ and think he has been a saviour for us but i'm also quite sure that he knows what a good defender is all about but his record of signing attacking talent is questionable. Matty Godden, no brainer but beyond that? Cardiff took Lincolns best (League 1) player in Moylan. We took Apter, Olafe, Knibbs (proven flops atm and lets not mention Ahadme) and Kelman (jury out atm). That's not a pile on but its definitely something that needs addressing. It's not something that should be ignored.Last season we took Knibbs and Apter two of the best players in league one as well as the league one top scorer.Cardiff took Moylan one of the best performers in the league this season and it’s going well so far.
Had we made that signing there’s no guarantee that he would have had the same effect or impact that he does in a Cardiff side. In fact I’m almost certain had we signed him there’s would be people complaining that we dipped into league one again and are not being ambitious enough.3 -
I have no idea, because they're not being instructed to play a bitChunes said:
Ok. Got you. If you had to rank our squad based on the level to which they can 'play a bit', where would they rank?Leuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.0 -
He played 866 minutes, thats less than 10 full games! He played less minutes than Reece Burke for us last season and an equivalent amount to JRC. Did either of those play a significant role in our season as a whole?Leuth said:
He made 21 appearances for the play-off finalists, where's the jokeNabySarr said:
Fair enough you’ve just made me laugh out loud. Hilarious stuffLeuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.3 -
And he's now playing for Leyton Orient.2
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That's still significant in my book. That's more gametime than a whole load of our squad are going to get this seasonfenaddick said:
He played 866 minutes, thats less than 10 full games!Leuth said:
He made 21 appearances for the play-off finalists, where's the jokeNabySarr said:
Fair enough you’ve just made me laugh out loud. Hilarious stuffLeuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.0 -
Alex Gilbert’s significant contribution to a top championship team was filling in for a few games while they had an injury crisis. Unless they had loads of midfielders out injured he barely got on the pitch. To say he played a significant role is laughable, it’s like saying Karoy Anderson played a significant role in us staying up
He was then released and now plays for a team mid-table in league 13 -
I was mid edit when you replied but he played less than Reece Burke last season!!!Leuth said:
That's still significant in my book. That's more gametime than a whole load of our squad are going to get this seasonfenaddick said:
He played 866 minutes, thats less than 10 full games!Leuth said:
He made 21 appearances for the play-off finalists, where's the jokeNabySarr said:
Fair enough you’ve just made me laugh out loud. Hilarious stuffLeuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.0 -
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My point is that for 866 minutes he was selected to play for a team that played proper football, and he played proper football, something he never did with us because his job was to press and harry and take corners1
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So what about this Alex Gilbert guy1
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Anderson only played 100 odd minutes less for us than GIlbert did last season and he spent half the season at BlackpoolNabySarr said:Alex Gilbert’s significant contribution to a top championship team was filling in for a few games while they had an injury crisis. Unless they had loads of midfielders out injured he barely got on the pitch. To say he played a significant role is laughable, it’s like saying Karoy Anderson played a significant role in us staying up
He was then released and now plays for a team mid-table in league 12 -
If you took our players individually and transplanted them into a decent Championship side, most of the first choice team wouldn't be glaringly out of place imo. Alli maybe, but I don't think he's going to be first choice again for a while if ever.0
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It's a bit of a cop out mate... You know where they rank, we all do. We watch teams zip it about, control and pass with ease. Then we watch our lads misplace five-yarders, or bounce the ball off their shins and lose it. That's not down to management, it's the quality of our personnel.Leuth said:
I have no idea, because they're not being instructed to play a bitChunes said:
Ok. Got you. If you had to rank our squad based on the level to which they can 'play a bit', where would they rank?Leuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.
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So you weren’t happy with the style we were playing in the second half of that season where we won lots of games, scored the second most goals in the league and won promotion?Leuth said:My point is that for 866 minutes he was selected to play for a team that played proper football, and he played proper football, something he never did with us because his job was to press and harry and take cornersThis is my whole point about the wild expectations people have. If that football wasn’t good enough for you then what the hell is?0 -
That football was pretty good, it shows Jones can do it when he doesn't go full bunker mentality. It's why I'm saying we should still be patient. But I'm also saying we shouldn't have limitless patienceNabySarr said:
So you weren’t happy with the style we were playing in the second half of that season where we won lots of games, scored the second most goals in the league and won promotion?Leuth said:My point is that for 866 minutes he was selected to play for a team that played proper football, and he played proper football, something he never did with us because his job was to press and harry and take cornersThis is my whole point about the wild expectations people have. If that football wasn’t good enough for you then what the hell is?0 -
Who misplaces 5-yarders or lets it bounce off their shin? The whole team? Or just Alli/Ouma/annoyingly, Grant more than you'd hope. We have a couple of glaring holes in the side but I don't recognise anyone else as guilty of these things. Leaburn and Campbell are notable for having excellent touch in fact, and the two current DMs don't give the ball away lightlyChunes said:
It's a bit of a cop out mate... You know where they rank, we all do. We watch teams zip it about, control and pass with ease. Then we watch our lads misplace five-yarders, or bounce the ball off their shins and lose it. That's not down to management, it's the quality of our personnel.Leuth said:
I have no idea, because they're not being instructed to play a bitChunes said:
Ok. Got you. If you had to rank our squad based on the level to which they can 'play a bit', where would they rank?Leuth said:
No. I was asked to rank our squad numerically within the league by footballing ability, which is arbitrary nonsense I won't participate in. The only question is whether we have players who can play at this level and play a bit, pass the ball, take on defenders, etc. Well, yeah.Chunes said:
Aren't these the same thing?Leuth said:
It's not about where we rank in the league in quality. It's about whether we have players who are capable of playing a bit of football at this level.NabySarr said:@Leuth where would you say our squad ranks in the league in terms of quality?To me it’s moved up a few places since last season, but it’s still bottom 8 in the league in terms of quality. If you split that out further into defence and attack, I’d say the defence is maybe top half, but the midfield/attack is bottom 6. With all of that you aren’t going to be able to evolve significantly in the first 2 months of a season
In League One, NJ was reluctant to deploy Alex Gilbert, and when he did, he didn't really play much football, just chased around a bit and took the odd decent corner. Next season, he played a significant role in a team who almost went up from the Championship.1 -
I think you’re vastly overestimating the quality of our players in possession. Okonkwo is uncomfortable, Jones is uncomfortable, McNamara is uncomfortable, Alli is uncomfortable, Grant is uncomfortable central. It doesn’t take a footballing genius to work out that if we are trying to play out you just show us to the right so Jones, McNamara and Alli are getting the ball and then you can win it back
We don’t have a squad built to play a possession style of football. If we tried to play it we’d be relegated2 -
Danny Mac isn't that bad, c'mon. He keeps it simple but he isn't a possession sieve2
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I trust Jones to sort it out but it definitely needs sorting out. I thought on Saturday, Cardiff looked vulnerable defensivey it is just we didn't ask enough questions of them in relation to that.0
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You’re going to need a lot more patience. That was league 1 and we had one of the larger budgets in the league and therefore better players than most of our opponents. In the championship the opposite is true, and we haven’t seen the investment required to bring in the quality to speed the process upLeuth said:
That football was pretty good, it shows Jones can do it when he doesn't go full bunker mentality. It's why I'm saying we should still be patient. But I'm also saying we shouldn't have limitless patienceNabySarr said:
So you weren’t happy with the style we were playing in the second half of that season where we won lots of games, scored the second most goals in the league and won promotion?Leuth said:My point is that for 866 minutes he was selected to play for a team that played proper football, and he played proper football, something he never did with us because his job was to press and harry and take cornersThis is my whole point about the wild expectations people have. If that football wasn’t good enough for you then what the hell is?2 -
If we were to sack Nathan Jones, I think we'd need to look for a manager who can make us solid defensively & grind out results, as we don't have much creativity in midfield.
Someone like...erm
NATHAN JONES4 -
He’s not bad, neither is Jones. They keep things simple because they know they are limited. But that’s the point, we aren’t going to pop it around teams from the back with players that are limited in possession. If we tried to be more expansive and we asked them to take more risks then we’d see a lot more mistakesLeuth said:Danny Mac isn't that bad, c'mon. He keeps it simple but he isn't a possession sieve3 -
I do think JRC should/will get an extended run after the international break in either RW or CAM purely cos he can control and pass the football. And in lieu of little Robbie Apter being forgiven, um. Er, hm. Stick Leaburn out wide and let Kelman or Godden lead the line? Hmm. Might need to think about this one0
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Mwamba? Hmmmm.0
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Anyway, I think Millenic Alli and to a lesser extent Karlan Grant have basically this thread's entire bump to answer for, they've fucked Jones over last few games. I mostly feel sorry for Ouma. Alli? I don't care about defending him, the fans can have him. These players have ruined Jones' gameplan and made us, and their teammates, look awful when they're just not0
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If you took our players individually and transplanted them into most championship squads they wouldn’t get in the team. That’s the entire point, our players aren’t that good. Only Jones, TC and maybe Okonkwo would start for more than a handful of teams at this level. Early days but I’d say Koumetio could be another but it’s still not manyLeuth said:If you took our players individually and transplanted them into a decent Championship side, most of the first choice team wouldn't be glaringly out of place imo. Alli maybe, but I don't think he's going to be first choice again for a while if ever.1 -
I think we need to play three up front, Campbell, Leaburn and Kelman. They are all good players with different attributes and the ability to play flexibly together.1
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Either Coventry or Skipp could easily play with a more progressive/physical midfield partner in a decent Championship team, and a fit Chalobah could be that partner obviously. Our whole first-choice defence is up to the mark (Mesik was miles better than his Preston counterpart for example, and I consider Ramsay our first choice RB). Campbell is obviously at this level if not higher and Leaburn would be a good option for most teams if they wanted a big man who can play a bitNabySarr said:
If you took our players individually and transplanted them into most championship squads they wouldn’t get in the team. That’s the entire point, our players aren’t that good. Only Jones, TC and maybe Okonkwo would start for more than a handful of teams at this level. Early days but I’d say Koumetio could be another but it’s still not manyLeuth said:If you took our players individually and transplanted them into a decent Championship side, most of the first choice team wouldn't be glaringly out of place imo. Alli maybe, but I don't think he's going to be first choice again for a while if ever.2
