I was very happy when he was appointed, and I felt he was the best manager we could have gotten at the time. As others have said he was probably on thin ice after the Crawley defeat, but aside from the Rotherham defeat (which seems to be an anomaly) the transformation since then has been phenomenal.
I have been of the view that we can't keep sacking managers as it is proven not to work. That isn't the most positive of reasons to back the manager. Then after Crawley, I immediately dropped into the he has to go position but only for a few hours when I returned to the we can't keep sacking managers position and indeed part of that was a lack of trust in the SMT to find better. Jones is a very complex character and not one I can get but as in everything in life, actions speak louder than words. Well the side that we found it hard to support has become one that it is easy to support. Jones clearly knows what he is doing and has shut a lot of us up.
He's come here, fleeced us of god knows how much money, fucked the team and now he wants off. What a prick.
I would like to apologise for this post which was I hope obviously intended as an ironic reflection on the nature of social media and fan consistency and not in a literal sense at all.
He's come here, fleeced us of god knows how much money, fucked the team and now he wants off. What a prick.
I would like to apologise for this post which was I hope obviously intended as an ironic reflection on the nature of social media and fan consistency and not in a literal sense at all.
👏🏻 Wheresmeticket : brilliant post.
One of the greatest Volte-face since David Lammy and Peter Mandelson had a rethink on Donald Trump.
Before they had top jobs.
Lammy: "Trump is "a racist KKK and narcissistic Tyrant, woman-hating, neo Nazi" etc Mandelson "Trump is a bully and a danger to the world."
Since Lammy is Foreign secretary and Mandelson is about to be appointed the UK ambassador to Washington.
Mandy: "Donald Trump has dynamism and energy" Lammy: "we can find common ground and he was a great host"
It's a funny old world if it wasn't so violent 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏿♂️
Back to the ⚽ and apologies for the tangent but it fitted the words from WMT.
Made me laugh on saturday when Thierry turned the ball over and started to run, Nathan seemed to head down the touch line with him. Great turn of pace from both of them.
this is a miracle turnaround from the doggiest dog shit we’ve ever played . get promoted and he is the messiah , my hand job is on the back burner till we’re out of league one
Credit where it's due, from where we were & how bad we were playing a few weeks ago, it's been quite the turnaround
Didn't Jones say the same happened previously with Luton? Took a while to implement his style but when the penny dropped they ramped up massively and quickly.
Like others I was ready to call for change, so very pleased to have been wrong.
Tbf I think most of us lost patience (including me) because the hoofball was so bad to watch and wasn’t bringing results. FairPlay to him he has made changes and turned it around
absolutely buzzing about the turnaround and the run of form and full credit to Jones for that.
he was doing a shite job the first half of the season and presided over some of the worst performances in our history
the abundance of strikers we now have makes it all the more ridiculous how we were grafting away first half of the season struggling to score a goal every game and playing ahadme up front. He's seen and acted on what any sane fan could see for a long term - but i didn't think he would and am absolutely delighted to proven wrong on that front and wrong that it would have been right to sack him
Please nathan you unlikeable weirdo, keep proving me wrong and if you get us out of this hellhole come May i'll sing your name all summer long and bow at your feet!
Hang this thread in the national gallery, no greater example of idiocy, shit takes and lack of patience
Going back to pages 30 through 40 and reading some of the shit people were giving me just two months agois about as cathartic as anything I’ve ever experienced.
I almost gave up on Jones too after Crawley - but in retrospect I’m disappointed that I ever wavered.
He is the best manager this club has had in a good few years. His process is working and pulling the trigger before Christmas would’ve set us back at least a year, if not more.
Agree @Callumcafc. We just need to trust in the process. There was lots to fix both on and off the pitch when Nathan came in. Still loads to do but NJ's process is working, and we have come on a long way. We just all need to stick together and remember how far we have come under him. There's gonna be bumps along the way, we know that as this is Charlton. We are far from the finished article, but I firmly believe NJ is the right man for the job. We've got loads more improvement in us and if we get the same uptick that we have over the last 12 months just imagine what we might achieve. COYR!
Hang this thread in the national gallery, no greater example of idiocy, shit takes and lack of patience
Bit like this comment, some of the posts were overly dramatic, but in October through the first half of December, as oohaah puts it in his usual poetic fashion, we played some of “the doggiest dog shit we’ve ever played”. And he’s not wrong.
We were getting poor results, playing even worse, and NJ seemed like he was losing the plot.
100% fair play to the minority preaching patience at that time, and even more so to the even fewer who were still predicting we would make the playoffs. There was zero evidence for that based on performances up to that stage of the season, though, and it was mostly based on blind faith and optimism.
Even if there were some slithers of evidence to the contrary, absolutely no one would have said going into the Northampton game, that we’d be 5th inside 2 months’ time. The turnaround in our form has been so pronounced and so rapid that I can’t think of another example from a Charlton side that matches it.
this is a miracle turnaround from the doggiest dog shit we’ve ever played . get promoted and he is the messiah , my hand job is on the back burner till we’re out of league one
I'm not being Captain Handsight here because I said this a couple of months ago. NJ is marmite. I'm talking about the players specifically in that respect. When he gets they totally "buy into" his ways, then he is hugely successful as he was at Luton. At Southampton (won 5/14) and Stoke (won 6/38), they simply didn't. His passion works both ways - it either galvanises or it upsets. His tactics only need to be scorned by a few in the dressing room and that place is lost unless he is given time to turn things around and get the squad he wants playing the way he wants them to.
This happened at Southampton and is courtesy of The Athletic:
Naturally, each coach has their own strengths and weaknesses and from Jones’ standpoint, there was friction with what he was trying to implement. Many believed he was working towards playing his preferred 3-5-2 shape. He ultimately played the system in his final game in charge against Wolves, making good on his promise after Brentford that he would no longer compromise.
Curiously, Ainsley Maitland-Niles was deployed as the third centre-back, while Duje Caleta-Car and Armel Bella-Kotchap — international-level defenders — were left out of the squad altogether. January signing Mislav Orsic was in the same boat, having been part of the matchday group at St Mary’s. It served as a sign of the growing animosity between Jones and a handful of players. Some thought they fell out of favour because they were not, in Jones’ opinion, diligent enough defensively.
No one can say that our players haven't bought into his ways. It's taken a while but we can now see the shape, solidity and commitment that the players are demonstrating. And the results have followed. We need to enjoy it all the times we can.
I'm not being Captain Handsight here because I said this a couple of months ago. NJ is marmite. I'm talking about the players specifically in that respect. When he gets they totally "buy into" his ways, then he is hugely successful as he was at Luton. At Southampton (won 5/14) and Stoke (won 6/38), they simply didn't. His passion works both ways - it either galvanises or it upsets. His tactics only need to be scorned by a few in the dressing room and that place is lost unless he is given time to turn things around and get the squad he wants playing the way he wants them to.
This happened at Southampton and is courtesy of The Athletic:
Naturally, each coach has their own strengths and weaknesses and from Jones’ standpoint, there was friction with what he was trying to implement. Many believed he was working towards playing his preferred 3-5-2 shape. He ultimately played the system in his final game in charge against Wolves, making good on his promise after Brentford that he would no longer compromise.
Curiously, Ainsley Maitland-Niles was deployed as the third centre-back, while Duje Caleta-Car and Armel Bella-Kotchap — international-level defenders — were left out of the squad altogether. January signing Mislav Orsic was in the same boat, having been part of the matchday group at St Mary’s. It served as a sign of the growing animosity between Jones and a handful of players. Some thought they fell out of favour because they were not, in Jones’ opinion, diligent enough defensively.
No one can say that our players haven't bought into his ways. It's taken a while but we can now see the shape, solidity and commitment that the players are demonstrating. And the results have followed. We need to enjoy it all the times we can.
Let’s just be clear. The reason we’ve gone on an improved run is not because the players bought into his ways; it’s because Jones changed his ways.
He deserves huge credit for that. But you can’t revise history and pretend that the approach adopted for the first four months of the season and the results and performances it brought about didn’t happen.
Fans were absolutely right to lose faith in and criticise what was going on. They were wrong to assume he wouldn’t be able to change things for the positive.
I'm not being Captain Handsight here because I said this a couple of months ago. NJ is marmite. I'm talking about the players specifically in that respect. When he gets they totally "buy into" his ways, then he is hugely successful as he was at Luton. At Southampton (won 5/14) and Stoke (won 6/38), they simply didn't. His passion works both ways - it either galvanises or it upsets. His tactics only need to be scorned by a few in the dressing room and that place is lost unless he is given time to turn things around and get the squad he wants playing the way he wants them to.
This happened at Southampton and is courtesy of The Athletic:
Naturally, each coach has their own strengths and weaknesses and from Jones’ standpoint, there was friction with what he was trying to implement. Many believed he was working towards playing his preferred 3-5-2 shape. He ultimately played the system in his final game in charge against Wolves, making good on his promise after Brentford that he would no longer compromise.
Curiously, Ainsley Maitland-Niles was deployed as the third centre-back, while Duje Caleta-Car and Armel Bella-Kotchap — international-level defenders — were left out of the squad altogether. January signing Mislav Orsic was in the same boat, having been part of the matchday group at St Mary’s. It served as a sign of the growing animosity between Jones and a handful of players. Some thought they fell out of favour because they were not, in Jones’ opinion, diligent enough defensively.
No one can say that our players haven't bought into his ways. It's taken a while but we can now see the shape, solidity and commitment that the players are demonstrating. And the results have followed. We need to enjoy it all the times we can.
Let’s just be clear. The reason we’ve gone on an improved run is not because the players bought into his ways; it’s because Jones changed his ways.
He deserves huge credit for that. But you can’t revise history and pretend that the approach adopted for the first four months of the season and the results and performances it brought about didn’t happen.
Fans were absolutely right to lose faith in and criticise what was going on. They were wrong to assume he wouldn’t be able to change things for the positive.
Maybe we needed those first four months, to get to this outcome though! It’s not like Jones does not have previous for his teams ‘clicking’ later into the season - and it’s not like Jones has not consistently mentioned this was all a building process that wouldn’t happen overnight either.
I for one was definitely questioning his coaching ability. But I do feel we were all to quick to panic and lose faith instead of supporting the process and the team.
The moment things weren’t going well it’s because ‘jones has lost the dressing room’ or ‘the players don’t care and are stealing a living’ - which is clearly not true with this group.
I think the criticism earlier of the season of Jones was valid albeit over the top. We were absolutely dire and completely ineffective. The lesson learnt for many, including me, is how important giving a manager time in football is. It's taken time to click but now it has we look like a proper team again.
I was one of those asking for him to be gone during our shocking run, cant blame us as it just looked like another repeat of the previous few seasons. Absolutely incredible turn around which let's be honest very few could have predicted back in December. Quite mental to think that if we keep this form form going we could well be targeting a spot in the autos.
I'm not being Captain Handsight here because I said this a couple of months ago. NJ is marmite. I'm talking about the players specifically in that respect. When he gets they totally "buy into" his ways, then he is hugely successful as he was at Luton. At Southampton (won 5/14) and Stoke (won 6/38), they simply didn't. His passion works both ways - it either galvanises or it upsets. His tactics only need to be scorned by a few in the dressing room and that place is lost unless he is given time to turn things around and get the squad he wants playing the way he wants them to.
This happened at Southampton and is courtesy of The Athletic:
Naturally, each coach has their own strengths and weaknesses and from Jones’ standpoint, there was friction with what he was trying to implement. Many believed he was working towards playing his preferred 3-5-2 shape. He ultimately played the system in his final game in charge against Wolves, making good on his promise after Brentford that he would no longer compromise.
Curiously, Ainsley Maitland-Niles was deployed as the third centre-back, while Duje Caleta-Car and Armel Bella-Kotchap — international-level defenders — were left out of the squad altogether. January signing Mislav Orsic was in the same boat, having been part of the matchday group at St Mary’s. It served as a sign of the growing animosity between Jones and a handful of players. Some thought they fell out of favour because they were not, in Jones’ opinion, diligent enough defensively.
No one can say that our players haven't bought into his ways. It's taken a while but we can now see the shape, solidity and commitment that the players are demonstrating. And the results have followed. We need to enjoy it all the times we can.
Let’s just be clear. The reason we’ve gone on an improved run is not because the players bought into his ways; it’s because Jones changed his ways.
He deserves huge credit for that. But you can’t revise history and pretend that the approach adopted for the first four months of the season and the results and performances it brought about didn’t happen.
Fans were absolutely right to lose faith in and criticise what was going on. They were wrong to assume he wouldn’t be able to change things for the positive.
Fans persuading Jones to change his ways is carrying some weight there. The fact that we picked up a dozen points in our first six games and then beat the best team, by a country mile, in the division showed that he had something about him. This is what I wrote in November when some fans were only too keen to bring in the next manager.
It appears that Jones in his second spell at Luton, then at Stoke and Southampton and now with us has tried to make his teams ones that don't concede, first and foremost. He wasn't given time to add a more attacking layer to that, if that was his intention in his last two jobs because those sides failed to keep clean sheets in the way that Parker has got Burnley to do. The debate is as to how long one allows things to carry on as they are but, with that constant revolving door of managers, perhaps we should take stock at the end of the season?
Thatbedrock of not conceding is still there. Yes we have changed to a degree and become more pro-active but, as I said in November, perhaps that was always his intention. The fact that we've been scoring late goals all season (15 of our 40 goals have been in the last 15 minutes) is a demonstration that the players have always believed in him and were prepared to give everything for more than 90 minutes. That is 99.99% of what a manager is about.
Where would we be now had we sacked him in November? Who could we entice who would be of the calibre and have the evidence to back that up to take us forward given that the average length of the last 15 manager's stay at our Club has been probably about nine months? Another Appleton, Gardner, Holden etc etc? Doing the same thing as we've always done isn't going to work and at some point we have to give a manager, especially one that has the pedigree of getting teams promoted, a decent amount of time.
I'm not suggesting for one minute that NJ is a Ferguson because he isn't. But it took three years and 150 games before the United Board were on the point of sacking him. Then he made history. How far NJ can take us is a whole different debate but let's enjoy it while we can and move on and more to the point, hopefully, up.
It’s funny, this is exactly what the Luton fans said would happen. They said he’d make us solid and it wouldn’t be pretty for a while but after Christmas it clicks. That’s basically what’s happened. That’s coincided with some players coming back but I don’t think it’s the luck or change of plan some are making out.
Obviously he will have wanted to win more games earlier in the season but I think he decided it was more sensible to sort out the defence first and credit to him as we have 13 clean sheets, that’s nearly half our games where we haven’t conceded.
He tried to sort the forward play out earlier, using REG instead of Mitchell but it didn’t work, same with using TC at RWB. He got the right combination with Small at RWB and he’s stuck to his guns.
As @PragueAddick mentioned on the match thread, credit to Will Abbott and the rest of his team for keeping everybody fit. Can’t imagine there are many other L1 teams with a clean bill of health.
Sorry for the long post but I think it’s so harsh to say that the majority of the reason we’re playing like this is luck, this is exactly what Nathan Jones has done successfully before
Comments
👏🏻 Wheresmeticket : brilliant post.
One of the greatest Volte-face since David Lammy and Peter Mandelson had a rethink on Donald Trump.
Before they had top jobs.
Lammy: "Trump is "a racist KKK and narcissistic Tyrant, woman-hating, neo Nazi" etc
Mandelson "Trump is a bully and a danger to the world."
Since Lammy is Foreign secretary and Mandelson is about to be appointed the UK ambassador to Washington.
Mandy: "Donald Trump has dynamism and energy"
Lammy: "we can find common ground and he was a great host"
It's a funny old world if it wasn't so violent 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏿♂️
Back to the ⚽ and apologies for the tangent but it fitted the words from WMT.
18 wins
18 draws
10 defeats
72 points
+12 goal differences
come on!!!
get promoted and he is the messiah , my hand job is on the back burner till we’re out of league one
we’re still 5th
Like others I was ready to call for change, so very pleased to have been wrong.
I remember the majority of us being at some stage at least where we thought and hoped that the similar silence after Crawley was for a reason
he was doing a shite job the first half of the season and presided over some of the worst performances in our history
the abundance of strikers we now have makes it all the more ridiculous how we were grafting away first half of the season struggling to score a goal every game and playing ahadme up front. He's seen and acted on what any sane fan could see for a long term - but i didn't think he would and am absolutely delighted to proven wrong on that front and wrong that it would have been right to sack him
Please nathan you unlikeable weirdo, keep proving me wrong and if you get us out of this hellhole come May i'll sing your name all summer long and bow at your feet!
I almost gave up on Jones too after Crawley - but in retrospect I’m disappointed that I ever wavered.
He is the best manager this club has had in a good few years. His process is working and pulling the trigger before Christmas would’ve set us back at least a year, if not more.
100% fair play to the minority preaching patience at that time, and even more so to the even fewer who were still predicting we would make the playoffs. There was zero evidence for that based on performances up to that stage of the season, though, and it was mostly based on blind faith and optimism.
Even if there were some slithers of evidence to the contrary, absolutely no one would have said going into the Northampton game, that we’d be 5th inside 2 months’ time. The turnaround in our form has been so pronounced and so rapid that I can’t think of another example from a Charlton side that matches it.
This happened at Southampton and is courtesy of The Athletic:
Naturally, each coach has their own strengths and weaknesses and from Jones’ standpoint, there was friction with what he was trying to implement. Many believed he was working towards playing his preferred 3-5-2 shape. He ultimately played the system in his final game in charge against Wolves, making good on his promise after Brentford that he would no longer compromise.
Curiously, Ainsley Maitland-Niles was deployed as the third centre-back, while Duje Caleta-Car and Armel Bella-Kotchap — international-level defenders — were left out of the squad altogether. January signing Mislav Orsic was in the same boat, having been part of the matchday group at St Mary’s. It served as a sign of the growing animosity between Jones and a handful of players. Some thought they fell out of favour because they were not, in Jones’ opinion, diligent enough defensively.
No one can say that our players haven't bought into his ways. It's taken a while but we can now see the shape, solidity and commitment that the players are demonstrating. And the results have followed. We need to enjoy it all the times we can.
I for one was definitely questioning his coaching ability. But I do feel we were all to quick to panic and lose faith instead of supporting the process and the team.
The moment things weren’t going well it’s because ‘jones has lost the dressing room’ or ‘the players don’t care and are stealing a living’ - which is clearly not true with this group.
If I had a penny for everyone time someone mentioned that this squad were ‘not a promotion chasing squad’ I’d be a rich man.
Fans persuading Jones to change his ways is carrying some weight there. The fact that we picked up a dozen points in our first six games and then beat the best team, by a country mile, in the division showed that he had something about him. This is what I wrote in November when some fans were only too keen to bring in the next manager.
It appears that Jones in his second spell at Luton, then at Stoke and Southampton and now with us has tried to make his teams ones that don't concede, first and foremost. He wasn't given time to add a more attacking layer to that, if that was his intention in his last two jobs because those sides failed to keep clean sheets in the way that Parker has got Burnley to do. The debate is as to how long one allows things to carry on as they are but, with that constant revolving door of managers, perhaps we should take stock at the end of the season?
That bedrock of not conceding is still there. Yes we have changed to a degree and become more pro-active but, as I said in November, perhaps that was always his intention. The fact that we've been scoring late goals all season (15 of our 40 goals have been in the last 15 minutes) is a demonstration that the players have always believed in him and were prepared to give everything for more than 90 minutes. That is 99.99% of what a manager is about.
Where would we be now had we sacked him in November? Who could we entice who would be of the calibre and have the evidence to back that up to take us forward given that the average length of the last 15 manager's stay at our Club has been probably about nine months? Another Appleton, Gardner, Holden etc etc? Doing the same thing as we've always done isn't going to work and at some point we have to give a manager, especially one that has the pedigree of getting teams promoted, a decent amount of time.
I'm not suggesting for one minute that NJ is a Ferguson because he isn't. But it took three years and 150 games before the United Board were on the point of sacking him. Then he made history. How far NJ can take us is a whole different debate but let's enjoy it while we can and move on and more to the point, hopefully, up.
Obviously he will have wanted to win more games earlier in the season but I think he decided it was more sensible to sort out the defence first and credit to him as we have 13 clean sheets, that’s nearly half our games where we haven’t conceded.
He tried to sort the forward play out earlier, using REG instead of Mitchell but it didn’t work, same with using TC at RWB. He got the right combination with Small at RWB and he’s stuck to his guns.
As @PragueAddick mentioned on the match thread, credit to Will Abbott and the rest of his team for keeping everybody fit. Can’t imagine there are many other L1 teams with a clean bill of health.
Sorry for the long post but I think it’s so harsh to say that the majority of the reason we’re playing like this is luck, this is exactly what Nathan Jones has done successfully before