Nathan Jones on being ‘absolutely abused’ by Charlton Athletic fans

SDAddick

Garrymanilow said:

shine166 said:

Garrymanilow said:

I think Jones shouldn’t have bothered going after the treatment after the game, but I also do think you have to consider it from his non-traumatised perspective. We’ve seen too much. For the past 17 years we’ve been an absolute basket case and it’s got progressively worse. I think we’ve had 3 good seasons in that time and even then there was weird stuff going on behind the scenes. We’re used to everything being terrible and any good moment suddenly being ripped away and some more humiliating nonsense happening to us. We now expect the absolute worst and we’re on a hair trigger. Losing 3 games in a row and not playing very well so far this season set people to 11 very quickly. 

If you’re Jones though, you’d be absolutely mystified. Come in to a team that hasn’t won in 12 games and is set for relegation, get results off Bolton and Pompey, finally get a win off Derby and proceed to lose only the first and last games of his season. Bring in a massively different team playing a very specific way over the summer, see the team be a little slow to adapt and have a couple of setbacks but still be very much in the promotion conversation after 10 games and get an absolute mouthful from fans. If you’ve not got nearly two decades of context for that you’d probably feel a bit put out to be fair. As far as he’s concerned we’re screaming at him for putting the heating on because he doesn’t know our entire family was killed by a radiator. He’d still do well to keep it too himself but I bet he’s perplexed. We aren’t well. We need CBT, but not the winger. 

If jones doesn't understand what we've been through, nobody will... he's hardly new to all things Charlton.

But I think that's exactly the point. He can understand up to a certain level, he might know the history and be familiar with the characters but I really do think you have to have lived it to really understand why our fanbase is always one loud noise away from a meltdown. I can still remember the feeling of having that 11/12 season and then finding out over the summer that we suddenly had no money again. I can remember the crushing slide down to League One just a few years after we were beating Liverpool in the Premier League. I remember where I was when I read that Roland had taken over, I remember the 'Roland Duchatelet doesn't understand football' thread that came soon after from a Standard Liege fan, I remember Yohann Thuram, Thomas Driesen, sacking Powell, Guy Luzon, Karel Fraeye, so so nearly Nobby Vinegar, security personnel assaulting fans while Katrien Meire smirked out of a window, the Australian done deal, 13 match winless runs, Russell Slade's patience, Matt Southall's super-duper phone, a secret transfer embargo, our best player refusing to play for us, relegation again, Chris Farnell and the other Paul Elliott, finding out a sympathetic Romanian lawyer was the only person who actually seemed to want to keep the club alive, Sandgaard's interest, a public injunction hearing, the takeover finally happening and it devolving into guitar solos, sacking loyal staff, signing cheap players and being told running a football club 'isn't that hard' as we sank to our lowest ever finishes. Good Adkins, bad Adkins, Charlie Kirk, eternal injury lists, Martin Sandgaard, Raelynn running HR illegally for some reason, Ben Garner's League Two lucky dip, the American binman's abortive takeover, the Methven wars, finally a new shadowy takeover followed by happy Holden, sad Holden, Bad Appleton's hands in his pockets and finally a new manager brought in so we don't get relegated to League Two.

We didn't start the fire!

PragueAddick

JohnnyH2 said:

PragueAddick said:

carly burn said:

PragueAddick said:

Half decent media training would do him the world of good. And Methven would know people who can give him that. But he's been around and other clubs must have also thought about that. He probably resists the idea. So we can expect plenty more of these volatile interviews. 

 I really don't get this. None of us can know the context but after sitting close to the dugout in one of Appletons last games I think I can make an educated guess.
In his words he got abused by the fan base and called it out. Why does he need media training for that?
 Are you saying he should keep his mouth shut and just get on with it? Why? Nobody should be personally abused. Especially when they are trying to do a job.
As I said earlier, name me another work place where it's on?
I'm quite astounded by some of the comments on here.

If I thought he should just keep his mouth shut, I would say so, and not suggest media training, wouldn’t I . 

Media interviews are a fact of football life. I’d lkke to see a curfew on them until the day after, because straight after a match is just daft, but The Audience demands it, apparently. In some countries they have started interviewing players at H-T, FFS.

A media trainer would take that interview, together with an overview of the reactions, and ask NJ if he is disappointed with th reaction, and what he hoped would be the reaction. Then they would discuss what he could or should not have said, to get the reaction he wanted. 

See? It’s not fucking voodoo. But the person involved has to be ready to do it. And NJ may not be the type. 

By coincidence if you want to see what I am talking about protrayed in a TV drama about football, I’m watching a very good French serial called Trigger, which is all about the toxic mix of elite football and social media. I’m watching it on SBS, but it is Canal + so should be available elsewhere, but you need to tolerate subtitles of course. 

Make your mind up, not so long ago you were moaning CATV were not providing interviews quick enough with the manager

No, I wasn't moaning about that.

jbcafc

On BBC now as well - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cly3z0rjq4xo

However you view it, it's not great publicity. 

SDAddick

jbcafc said:

On BBC now as well - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cly3z0rjq4xo

However you view it, it's not great publicity. 

I'm pretty critical of Jones running his mouth (see like, three posts above), but when read in the larger context, it's mostly just standard manager stuff. As with everything he does, Jones has to be slightly more intense and like slightly more over the top than your average manager, but reading it in context and it's like "yeah, okay, whatever." BBC has just pulled out the weirdest thing he's said as the headline (which like, I get, we live in an era of clicks).

AFKABartram

Don’t forget Jones wanted and got to the last two for the Millwall job last season. If he can’t take a vent from a tiny handful of fans after a disappointing night game in Bristol, gawd knows how he would have coped there! 

killerandflash

"There's been a lot of noise this week. I got abused by my own fans the other day, absolutely abused by my own fans, who questioned our selections," he said.

As Jones COMPLETELY changed the formation and tactics for Birmingham, and much of the team selection, that surely suggests that the fans were correct to criticise him. I don't agree with abuse, but this is football, not a normal workplace. Jones "abuses" officials, and has the yellow cards to prove it.

He's not a first time manager, we're his 4th club and 5th managerial spell. He makes it sound like fans abusing the manager after 3 BAD defeats is somehow unique.

cantersaddick

Jayajosh said:

I remember Appleton getting dogs abuse after some games and I’d never felt so embarrassed by some of our fans. If you ain’t happy with a defeat just clear off and don’t clap the team, that message is fairly clear on its own. 

Nah in that case it was justified

Covered End

killerandflash said:

"There's been a lot of noise this week. I got abused by my own fans the other day, absolutely abused by my own fans, who questioned our selections," he said.

As Jones COMPLETELY changed the formation and tactics for Birmingham, and much of the team selection, that surely suggests that the fans were correct to criticise him. I don't agree with abuse, but this is football, not a normal workplace. Jones "abuses" officials, and has the yellow cards to prove it.

He's not a first time manager, we're his 4th club and 5th managerial spell. He makes it sound like fans abusing the manager after 3 BAD defeats is somehow unique.

I support Jones (in case of doubt) but you're quite right he's a £$%£$%£ hypocrite. 

Airman Brown

Is there any set of fans at any club that doesn’t try to pick a better team when faced with poor performances?

TellyTubby

killerandflash said:

"There's been a lot of noise this week. I got abused by my own fans the other day, absolutely abused by my own fans, who questioned our selections," he said.

As Jones COMPLETELY changed the formation and tactics for Birmingham, and much of the team selection, that surely suggests that the fans were correct to criticise him. I don't agree with abuse, but this is football, not a normal workplace. Jones "abuses" officials, and has the yellow cards to prove it.

He's not a first time manager, we're his 4th club and 5th managerial spell. He makes it sound like fans abusing the manager after 3 BAD defeats is somehow unique.

Absolutely correct.

NJ told us immediately after Bristol Rovers that it wasn't the player's fault, it was his alone. Now he tells us the player's "Absolutely" let us down and the fans have no right to have an opinion. 

I've got a message for you Nathan, football is nothing without opinions. 

Attacking the fans never goes down well and means that every time things go badly there is no credit in the bank. Probably the greatest legacy fans remember about Andy Nelson is his "Village idiots" comment, not his promotion.

If NJ gets us promoted then he will be tolerated whilst here, I suspect that he is unlikely to be warmed to by most and the "village idiots" will rise up at the least provocation with such a volatile character at the helm.

I didnt abuse him at Bristol and think its wrong to, but he certainly hasn't endeared himself to me. 

Kips

"There's been a lot of noise this week. I got abused by my own fans the other day, absolutely abused by my own fans, who questioned our selections," he said.

----

Dear Mr. Jones,

I'm genuinely sorry if you were abused, but perhaps the highlighted text is where the confusion lies. We are fans of CAFC, not the employees of our club who come and go, seemingly as they please in this day and age of little loyalty.

Therefore, if you do well we will praise you to the hilt, but if you let our club down you will get some criticism. So, if you don't like our terms, go somewhere else (as you've threatened to do).  But guess what, if you make a series of baffling changes that totally derails a successful run or oversee results that are just plain bad, you will get stick there too. Just like at Stoke and Southampton.

Yours sincerely,

 Kips (aged 50 and 3 quarters)

MuttleyCAFC

I think we should probably leave it there. The major problem as I see it is his choice of words and conflating two different things. If he has been verbally abused to a level which is over the top, he is absolutely right to call it out. Surely fans picking the team and questioning selections and playing styles is as Airman alluded to, what fans do when the team is struggling. That is part of football. 

Results wise, Jones has been looking back at what he has done since coming in and is expecting more trust and credit. That may be fair enough but ultimately a club of our stature should not be at this level. We have been here far too long, whuch is not Jones' fault, but losing to crap teams we should be beating three times in succession is going to garner a negative response whatever club and whichever manager is in charge. 

Sheepie1985

Let's face it, compared to Michael Appleton I'm glad we've got a manager that actually gives a fuck, I have zero problems with him being passionate. 

letthegoodtimesroll

Airman Brown said:

Is there any set of fans at any club that doesn’t try to pick a better team when faced with poor performances?

None that are collectively as knowledgeable about all things football as Charlton fans…a manager that repeated the error of picking the wrong player(s) and couldn’t work out why the gameplan wasn’t working is lucky to have us 😁

seth plum

Why do managers get yellow and red cards on the touch line?
I would suggest the vast majority of the time it is because some kind of abuse of the officials.
Jones has received cards during matches because he has become het up, so maybe that experience can help him understand that fans can get het up too.

thenewbie

Sheepie1985 said:

Let's face it, compared to Michael Appleton I'm glad we've got a manager that actually gives a fuck, I have zero problems with him being passionate. 

Him being passionate is not a problem. When he has a problem with the fans also being passionate then that's the bit I take issue with.

Obviously there's a distinction between actual abuse and people being upset or angry at performances that were plain bad.

charlton_hero

He's showing his naivety with those comments, after calling out Krystian Bielik for the same thing. One common denominator in the successful Powell and Bowyer seasons was fans, players and management all being united. A better manager would be looking to unite, not divide. 

JamesSeed

Davo55 said:

Danny Addick said:

I’m sure this will be divisive but I want to say it anyway. In my opinion, fans lose all credibility when they abuse players or managers. Moan all you want, you pay your money and football is a game of opinions after all, but never abuse. Give feedback, say he was wrong, say he’s awful but don’t swear and abuse him. Grow up. 

Adults screaming abuse at a man because he lost games of football? Seriously?

Agree but I think NJ is wrong to come out whingeing about it in his post match comments. He must know by now that the performances and results of the team will get an exaggerated reaction from fans and that it goes with the territory. Man up, and then show the abusers how wrong they are by the performances and results on the pitch.

No. It’s unacceptable. You think fans behaved like this back in the day? No, of course they didn’t. People have no self restraint these days. How would you like it if people turned up at your place of work and screamed abuse at you in front of your colleagues and bosses? It doesn’t matter how much someone is paid either. 

JamesSeed

Airman Brown said:

Is there any set of fans at any club that doesn’t try to pick a better team when faced with poor performances?

Of course not, and it was ever thus. But the culture has changed, very much for the worse. 

I’m talking about getting in someone’s face to abuse them, not booing from the stands etc. 

fenaddick

Let’s face it, if it wasn’t an international break we’d already have moved on to tonight’s game and it wouldn’t have been picked up by the bbc. People were giving it large to him at Bristol Rovers, he’s spoken before about people who sit behind the dugout constantly digging him out and he was probably having a big rush of emotion. He probably does need to chill out a bit before interviews but it’s nowhere near the big thing it’s being made out to be. 

Ilovelondontown

Is this a “come and get me Cardiff “???

Elthamaddick

Sheepie1985 said:

Let's face it, compared to Michael Appleton I'm glad we've got a manager that actually gives a fuck, I have zero problems with him being passionate. 

exactly, he's a bit of a loon.....but he's our loon, I think it's great he's got a bit of personality and is prepared to give it back a bit

Scoham

charlton_hero said:

He's showing his naivety with those comments, after calling out Krystian Bielik for the same thing. One common denominator in the successful Powell and Bowyer seasons was fans, players and management all being united. A better manager would be looking to unite, not divide. 

I’m sure if we looked back there were probably questionable comments from Bowyer at least in his promotion season. No manager will answer every question perfectly over a long season.

Thommo

I was down the front at the end of Bristol Rovers as my little one wanted to clap the players, couple of fans shouting at Jones telling him what he was doing wrong, who he should be picking, the mistakes he was making.

Fair play to Nathan for coming over to said fans and essentially trying to deflect criticism away from the players, saying, "that's on me tonight, my choices, I got it wrong". It was a conversation but the couple of fans where still shouting as he was walking away.

A lot of players and managers might not have got beyond the edge of the penalty box towards the away fans after a performance like that, so Nathan coming to engage was a positive. Fans were just frustrated after a bad performance, and venting is expected, but its football, everyone has an opinion. He came over he engaged, he put his hands up, what more can he do. He'll still be managing at the weekend, and fans will probably still be supporting, you live, you learn, you move on.

Callumcafc

Why are people being so sensitive? Take it on the chin, nobody is perfect.

soapboxsam

Elthamaddick said:

Sheepie1985 said:

Let's face it, compared to Michael Appleton I'm glad we've got a manager that actually gives a fuck, I have zero problems with him being passionate. 

exactly, he's a bit of a loon.....but he's our loon, I think it's great he's got a bit of personality and is prepared to give it back a bit

I agree EA.
I believe he should give it back but make clear it's a small number of abusers; criticism is par for the course and 8 out of 10 ugly performances needed some explaining in the depth of League 1 🤔 
As many on CL know if they have a strong character as a partner and not a doormat the relationship can be stormy ! 
CAFC, Welsh biblical fireball manager came with a warning ! Let's not act surprised.

PragueAddick

Scoham said:

charlton_hero said:

He's showing his naivety with those comments, after calling out Krystian Bielik for the same thing. One common denominator in the successful Powell and Bowyer seasons was fans, players and management all being united. A better manager would be looking to unite, not divide. 

I’m sure if we looked back there were probably questionable comments from Bowyer at least in his promotion season. No manager will answer every question perfectly over a long season.

I don't remember that in that season, but the following seasons were a different matter, when he obviously wasn't coping with all the stuff (off as well as on the field). The interview where he hung Conor Washington out to dry was particularly excruciating.

fenaddick

PragueAddick said:

Scoham said:

charlton_hero said:

He's showing his naivety with those comments, after calling out Krystian Bielik for the same thing. One common denominator in the successful Powell and Bowyer seasons was fans, players and management all being united. A better manager would be looking to unite, not divide. 

I’m sure if we looked back there were probably questionable comments from Bowyer at least in his promotion season. No manager will answer every question perfectly over a long season.

I don't remember that in that season, but the following seasons were a different matter, when he obviously wasn't coping with all the stuff (off as well as on the field). The interview where he hung Conor Washington out to dry was particularly excruciating.

He was quite fond of criticising players in public towards the end, didn't he have a go at Morgan about his fitness at one point too?

blackpool72

Callumcafc said:

Why are people being so sensitive? Take it on the chin, nobody is perfect.

I am.

eastterrace6168

blackpool72 said:

Callumcafc said:

Why are people being so sensitive? Take it on the chin, nobody is perfect.

I am.

Always one ain't there...🙄