Surely a manager's job is not to pick the best players, but the best team?
Sir Alf Ramsay was questioned by the press about not picking Jimmy Greaves in 1966. He said it was his job to pick the team to win the World Cup...
I sometimes wonder about outside influences on managers. (Think Duchatalet on the International stage.) When Steve McLaren became England manager, one of his first decisions was to drop Beckham. A journalist panel after it was announced said that they thought the sponsors wouldn't be happy about the decision. Sponsors? Are you kidding me? I know that they pay a lot of money, but surely they shouldn't be interfering with the England manager's selection decisions.
Unfortunately, the hype around some players, becomes like the baying of jackals. Pick your TEAM, and avoid all the noise that surrounds it. You need some players around to do the dirty work. For each Bobby Charlton, you need a Nobby Stiles to do a job on Eusebio...
I am not a Carsley fan, in any way. In fact after the turgid dross produced by England in the last Euros, I'm in favour of a clean sweep. Get someone in with their own ideas, not someone who has been watching the same thing being done over and over again, for a number of years. Then TRAIN thos players to operate in the system that you chose. But be prepared to change it, if it's not working...
Carsley tried something and it backfired. In theory there’s nothing wrong playing the way he set us up last night. Spain won major trophies playing Cesc Fabregas as a centre forward.
Let’s see what happens in a few days against the Finns.
Carsley tried something and it backfired. In theory there’s nothing wrong playing the way he set us up last night. Spain won major trophies playing Cesc Fabregas as a centre forward.
Let’s see what happens in a few days against the Finns.
Don’t think the false 9 was the problem, it was picking only 3 defensive minded players (Colwill, Stones & Rice)
Carsley tried something and it backfired. In theory there’s nothing wrong playing the way he set us up last night. Spain won major trophies playing Cesc Fabregas as a centre forward.
Let’s see what happens in a few days against the Finns.
That Spain side with Fabregas as a false 9 had 3 all time great midfielders in Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets, backed up with Alonso and David Silva, had 2 all time great centre backs in Pique and Ramos, and an all time great keeper in Casillas. It's not quite the best example to use.
Could've probably played you as a false 9 and they'd still have won that Euro's.
England vs Finland looked incredibly good. I wouldn't say Carsley has necessarily proven he can't do it. Proven he can't do it like this, yes, but get Gomes back in and balance the side then see
England vs Finland looked incredibly good. I wouldn't say Carsley has necessarily proven he can't do it. Proven he can't do it like this, yes, but get Gomes back in and balance the side then see
Finland are absolutely awful though. IMO Carsley needed to win every game to get the job, at the very least he needed to be unbeaten as it's an easy group.
His interview is quite sad, sounds like he's admitting he's not up to the job. I thought tactics apart, the lack of application from the players was obvious, like they're not motivated to win it for him. It just goes to show that even with this talented group of players, success isn't a given and get the next appointment wrong and we could easily be back to the old England.
England vs Finland looked incredibly good. I wouldn't say Carsley has necessarily proven he can't do it. Proven he can't do it like this, yes, but get Gomes back in and balance the side then see
Did we look 'incredibly good' or are Finland just really rubbish? I recall us being pretty average for almost an hour until Kane scored.
Surely a manager's job is not to pick the best players, but the best team?
Sir Alf Ramsay was questioned by the press about not picking Jimmy Greaves in 1966. He said it was his job to pick the team to win the World Cup...
I sometimes wonder about outside influences on managers. (Think Duchatalet on the International stage.) When Steve McLaren became England manager, one of his first decisions was to drop Beckham. A journalist panel after it was announced said that they thought the sponsors wouldn't be happy about the decision. Sponsors? Are you kidding me? I know that they pay a lot of money, but surely they shouldn't be interfering with the England manager's selection decisions.
Unfortunately, the hype around some players, becomes like the baying of jackals. Pick your TEAM, and avoid all the noise that surrounds it. You need some players around to do the dirty work. For each Bobby Charlton, you need a Nobby Stiles to do a job on Eusebio...
I am not a Carsley fan, in any way. In fact after the turgid dross produced by England in the last Euros, I'm in favour of a clean sweep. Get someone in with their own ideas, not someone who has been watching the same thing being done over and over again, for a number of years. Then TRAIN thos players to operate in the system that you chose. But be prepared to change it, if it's not working...
To be fair to Carsley, he had no involvement in the senior team beforehand, so to an extent he is a clean sweep. The U21s under him have been much more fluid than the senior team.
That's not excusing the shambles last night of course.
Carsley bare nicked NJ's formation and prime tactic from Saturday's victory over the midlands millwall Trouble for the makeweight national coach is he don't got the player resources to make it work Not one of those superannuated pisstaking showponies last night woulda got in NJ's starting XI Probly only Lewis would have made our bench Serioulsy tho why does any coach select Foden or Saka to play for England when they clearly would rather be doing anything else? Neither one tried a leg for about the tenth game in a row, they only agree to show up cos their brand managers know that turning down England is commercial suicide. Bellingham serves up about 5% of his talent for about 2% of the 90 minutes and that's enough for him to score, the rest of the time he sulks around looking like a teenage twat trying to pick a fight Colwill pulled out a worldy of a goalline clearance but that was only necessary cos him and Stones stank the place up so badly to give that ropey Greek side a very easy night indeed If more than 2 of that mediocre Greek side had any idea at all about the offside rule England woulda got done about 4 nil.
Anything short of a cricket score against the even weaker Finns will see Carsley seeking employment elsewhere but most of this overrated 'golden generation' retained to underwhelm and disappoint for another couple of years to the next tournament and its inevitable quarter final anticlimax
Carsley tried something and it backfired. In theory there’s nothing wrong playing the way he set us up last night. Spain won major trophies playing Cesc Fabregas as a centre forward.
Let’s see what happens in a few days against the Finns.
That Spain side with Fabregas as a false 9 had 3 all time great midfielders in Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets, backed up with Alonso and David Silva, had 2 all time great centre backs in Pique and Ramos, and an all time great keeper in Casillas. It's not quite the best example to use.
Could've probably played you as a false 9 and they'd still have won that Euro's.
Lol point taken but we do also have some extremely good players - certainly enough to have beaten Greece regardless of playing a false nine.
Would’ve taken issue with trying it for the first time in a major tournament, but not last night.
Maybe he was just taking one for the team by proving that England aren't all that good and need to have a balanced, defensively minded team to be any good?
To be fair Wales are a very average international side. More than half their squad is Championship players and they even have a couple from league one.
They're punching above their weight even being in Nations league B, which is the same level we're embarrassingly also at.
Maybe he was just taking one for the team by proving that England aren't all that good and need to have a balanced, defensively minded team to be any good?
There is a balance though between the cautious Southgate style, and going full "Ardiles". And bizarre to try such a major change of formation with so little time to work on it, and with such an attacking (and inexperienced) defence.
Carsley surely won't get the job now but might've done English football a massive favour for the next few years. Any controversial benching in favour of better structure can be justified with reference to the Greece game now
Not read the thread, so probably all been said. My take on it is all the "star" players were awful (Bellingham earns a brownie point or two for getting a couple of shots actually on target). Palmer and Foden (the Londis twins as my missus calls them) were anonymous. Saka hardly put a run together and then decided he was injured when he saw the writing on the wall (and I say that as a fan of the lad), Alexander-Arnold's lazy sweep of the ball up in the air in the dying seconds summed him up and as for Gordon - if you knew nothing about him and had no idea of the match, you would have said he was playing in the National League at best, he got robbed more often than Lewisham Tescos, and on the odd occasion he managed to retain the ball, he gave it away straight after. If they can only play "in position" then they are not great players - Foden wasn't being asked to play in goal, or Palmer at centre back, FFS. They simply don't know how to deal with a "crisis", as at their club when the chips are down, there's always others to come in and change the game, they don't have to work out how to do it for themselves.
Think Carsley has never really wanted the job full-time. Wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with a club job somewhere in the championship though as opposed to back to the U21s
PWR. Just caught the second half on ITV+1. I thought we looked a shambles. That would never have happened under Southgate.
You never watched England 0 Hungary 4 ? 95 minutes of the Slovakia match when we were so negative under Gareth Southgate ?
I watched both those matches and in neither of them did we have players literally running into each other. Also, we won against Slovakia, and they’re a better team than Greece.
Comments
Sir Alf Ramsay was questioned by the press about not picking Jimmy Greaves in 1966. He said it was his job to pick the team to win the World Cup...
I sometimes wonder about outside influences on managers. (Think Duchatalet on the International stage.) When Steve McLaren became England manager, one of his first decisions was to drop Beckham. A journalist panel after it was announced said that they thought the sponsors wouldn't be happy about the decision. Sponsors? Are you kidding me? I know that they pay a lot of money, but surely they shouldn't be interfering with the England manager's selection decisions.
Unfortunately, the hype around some players, becomes like the baying of jackals. Pick your TEAM, and avoid all the noise that surrounds it. You need some players around to do the dirty work. For each Bobby Charlton, you need a Nobby Stiles to do a job on Eusebio...
I am not a Carsley fan, in any way. In fact after the turgid dross produced by England in the last Euros, I'm in favour of a clean sweep. Get someone in with their own ideas, not someone who has been watching the same thing being done over and over again, for a number of years. Then TRAIN thos players to operate in the system that you chose. But be prepared to change it, if it's not working...
Let’s see what happens in a few days against the Finns.
Could've probably played you as a false 9 and they'd still have won that Euro's.
That's not excusing the shambles last night of course.
Trouble for the makeweight national coach is he don't got the player resources to make it work
Not one of those superannuated pisstaking showponies last night woulda got in NJ's starting XI
Probly only Lewis would have made our bench
Serioulsy tho why does any coach select Foden or Saka to play for England when they clearly would rather be doing anything else? Neither one tried a leg for about the tenth game in a row, they only agree to show up cos their brand managers know that turning down England is commercial suicide. Bellingham serves up about 5% of his talent for about 2% of the 90 minutes and that's enough for him to score, the rest of the time he sulks around looking like a teenage twat trying to pick a fight
Colwill pulled out a worldy of a goalline clearance but that was only necessary cos him and Stones stank the place up so badly to give that ropey Greek side a very easy night indeed
If more than 2 of that mediocre Greek side had any idea at all about the offside rule England woulda got done about 4 nil.
Anything short of a cricket score against the even weaker Finns will see Carsley seeking employment elsewhere but most of this overrated 'golden generation' retained to underwhelm and disappoint for another couple of years to the next tournament and its inevitable quarter final anticlimax
Would’ve taken issue with trying it for the first time in a major tournament, but not last night.
Maybe we need a more attacking-minded manager AND Carsley simply isn't up to the job. Both can be true.
It's quite clear he wants to return to manage the U21s.
They're punching above their weight even being in Nations league B, which is the same level we're embarrassingly also at.