It would be interesting to go behind the scenes and get a real understanding of the promises, expectations and group dynamics. It's easy to imagine the owners being sold a vision and expected trajectory and subsequently agreeing a certain range of spend and targets for the short and medium term. At face value, if that range is somewhere in the top 6 operating budget in whatever division it's a good sum of money for a leadership team and manager to have against a target of a top 6 place. If I was asked a year ago to benchmark the owners, SMT, manager (MA) & coaches and the playing squad I'd have said the SMT, manager/coaches and playing squad were all barriers to success, i.e. top 6 for this season. I'd guess, without any real knowledge, the SMT were the biggest barrier having undersold the cost and difficulty of achieving top 6 and that they were also a relatively weak leadership team. That the playing squad prior to the January '24 window closing was a definite boat anchor and that MA and his coaches were still a concern but a lesser one than the others. In a little over a year we have essentially the same SMT and I think they're still easily the biggest barrier to top 6 as they'd be inclined not to admit the vision and costs were undersold. Perhaps Gavin Carter will help knock this barrier away. The squad is much better than this time last year, we've added quality, depth and the academy guys have another year under their belt. Although it's not where I'd want it to be perhaps the undersold vision/cost is continuing to be quite a limiting factor? [Associated with the squad, I'd include the output of the medical and conditioning team as a big improvement over what we had at the end of '23.] I'd also say NJ and the coaches have helped put us in a much better place than 12 months ago. I'd have loved to have watched HMS PTL since August but when I think about how poor we were 12 months ago and how much better we are now I do believe we have the basis of a squad which will challenge strongly for promotion next year and perhaps one which, with the results we've achieved lately and with a following wind, may have a sniff of the playoffs this season...... I would love the Gavin and the SMT to blow away my concerns about the leadership. It's a big ask but I live in hope!
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
Wigan 20-21 finished 20th. The next season they won the league. Plymouth 20-21 finishes 18th. Next season they narrowly missed play offs finishing 7th after jumping 11 places. Oxford 22-23 finished 19th. Next season they were promoted. Reading last season finished 17th. They are currently in a playoff spot despite being under an embargo. In L2 last season Grimsby were 21th, Salford 20th, Notts County 14. They are currently 9, 3, 6 respectively In L2 in 22-23, Crawley were 22nd, next season promoted. Donny were 18th, next season 5th.
There are tonnes of examples of clubs jumping 10+ places in a season in the lower leagues. It needs good recruitment, usually some money and a decent manager.
Having patience whilst the club loses £9.5M pa is a nice position for a fan to be in. I wonder if our owners share that.
Anyway, sorry for further detailing the "rumour!" Thread!
Do you think the owners came in expecting immediate results?
You’d surely need Sandgaard levels of delusion to think you’d come in and immediately fix everything and propel the club up the leagues. That would be the aim but it doesn’t always happen smoothly and I’d like to think anyone with a bit of money and sense would understand that.
You can do everything right and it still not happen. Hopefully our owners understand that concept.
Unlimited money to throw away every year, no but if you’re looking for immediate returns in a football club investment you’re not the right people for the job in the first place.
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
We aren't going to finish 5th! We've just won 3 games in a row, drawn the last, unbeaten in what, 6 games and yet here we are ... lofty 10th position!
You are trying to suggest something we've been very far off now for 5 years happening!
When it does, you can say something, but seriously, we are no better now than when this lot took over, except we've lost Dobson and CBT and lost about £15m in money to date!
Fab
I'll grab a beer and celebrate..... Again we are "only" doing better this season because of how badly we did last season !
Alex Mitchell reckons we’ll get in the playoffs according to today’s article in the SLP.
Great...... not entirely sure why our centre half saying we'll make the play offs changes the fact we currently lie 10th?
Oh no, don’t restart the argument about the league table and its relevance for measuring our progress year to year when only half the games have been played.
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
Wigan 20-21 finished 20th. The next season they won the league. Plymouth 20-21 finishes 18th. Next season they narrowly missed play offs finishing 7th after jumping 11 places. Oxford 22-23 finished 19th. Next season they were promoted. Reading last season finished 17th. They are currently in a playoff spot despite being under an embargo. In L2 last season Grimsby were 21th, Salford 20th, Notts County 14. They are currently 9, 3, 6 respectively In L2 in 22-23, Crawley were 22nd, next season promoted. Donny were 18th, next season 5th.
There are tonnes of examples of clubs jumping 10+ places in a season in the lower leagues. It needs good recruitment, usually some money and a decent manager.
Having patience whilst the club loses £9.5M pa is a nice position for a fan to be in. I wonder if our owners share that.
Anyway, sorry for further detailing the "rumour!" Thread!
Do you think the owners came in expecting immediate results?
You’d surely need Sandgaard levels of delusion to think you’d come in and immediately fix everything and propel the club up the leagues. That would be the aim but it doesn’t always happen smoothly and I’d like to think anyone with a bit of money and sense would understand that.
You can do everything right and it still not happen. Hopefully our owners understand that concept.
Unlimited money to throw away every year, no but if you’re looking for immediate returns in a football club investment you’re not the right people for the job in the first place.
I agree with you. The problem this season has been that up until the Northamption game it looked like we were going backwards.People were entitled to be concerned . If we carry on like we have since then, but finish say 8th, most reasonable people will accept that as progress, so long as the summer window is better handled than this last one.
It took Ipswich a couple of seasons beforw they finally roared out of this division, and look at them now.
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
Wigan 20-21 finished 20th. The next season they won the league. Plymouth 20-21 finishes 18th. Next season they narrowly missed play offs finishing 7th after jumping 11 places. Oxford 22-23 finished 19th. Next season they were promoted. Reading last season finished 17th. They are currently in a playoff spot despite being under an embargo. In L2 last season Grimsby were 21th, Salford 20th, Notts County 14. They are currently 9, 3, 6 respectively In L2 in 22-23, Crawley were 22nd, next season promoted. Donny were 18th, next season 5th.
There are tonnes of examples of clubs jumping 10+ places in a season in the lower leagues. It needs good recruitment, usually some money and a decent manager.
Having patience whilst the club loses £9.5M pa is a nice position for a fan to be in. I wonder if our owners share that.
Anyway, sorry for further detailing the "rumour!" Thread!
I agree, and we did the same under Powell.
However for balance sometimes it clicks after 2/3 windows. We’ve now got a style and formation that can be very effective, with the right signings we can take our recent performances up another level.
Berry has the technique and intelligence to score and create goals, but his legs are going - imagine replacing him with a similar but younger energetic player of the level of our defensive signings.
Same for improving on or having players who can at least come off the bench for TC and Small. We could have that pace throughout a game rather than them tiring and having to start every game.
No doubt those players are out and there and affordable, we just need to find them before other clubs do.
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
Wigan 20-21 finished 20th. The next season they won the league. Plymouth 20-21 finishes 18th. Next season they narrowly missed play offs finishing 7th after jumping 11 places. Oxford 22-23 finished 19th. Next season they were promoted. Reading last season finished 17th. They are currently in a playoff spot despite being under an embargo. In L2 last season Grimsby were 21th, Salford 20th, Notts County 14. They are currently 9, 3, 6 respectively In L2 in 22-23, Crawley were 22nd, next season promoted. Donny were 18th, next season 5th.
There are tonnes of examples of clubs jumping 10+ places in a season in the lower leagues. It needs good recruitment, usually some money and a decent manager.
Having patience whilst the club loses £9.5M pa is a nice position for a fan to be in. I wonder if our owners share that.
Anyway, sorry for further detailing the "rumour!" Thread!
Do you think the owners came in expecting immediate results?
You’d surely need Sandgaard levels of delusion to think you’d come in and immediately fix everything and propel the club up the leagues. That would be the aim but it doesn’t always happen smoothly and I’d like to think anyone with a bit of money and sense would understand that.
You can do everything right and it still not happen. Hopefully our owners understand that concept.
Unlimited money to throw away every year, no but if you’re looking for immediate returns in a football club investment you’re not the right people for the job in the first place.
I agree with you. The problem this season has been that up until the Northamption game it looked like we were going backwards.People were entitled to be concerned . If we carry on like we have since then, but finish say 8th, most reasonable people will accept that as progress, so long as the summer window is better handled than this last one.
It took Ipswich a couple of seasons beforw they finally roared out of this division, and look at them now.
It took Ipswich two seasons to win the league.
We are into season two of our ownerships reign. Excuse them the August window if you like, but if you think CM, AS and JR are going to do an Ipswich and take Charlton to successive back to back promotions you will be sorely disappointed.
We all have aspirations. This SMT will not achieve them for us. They also had pension fund money. We have financiers using their own money and so they are spending differently. You should always spend it more wisely when you are spending your own money. Pension funds speculate to accumulate. Based on the funds they had, spending money on getting Ipswich to the Premier League was a mere dip in the ocean and if it didn't work, oh well, it's not their money. Financial regulations in the US of A are different than in the UK. But I think you know that.
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
We aren't going to finish 5th! We've just won 3 games in a row, drawn the last, unbeaten in what, 6 games and yet here we are ... lofty 10th position!
You are trying to suggest something we've been very far off now for 5 years happening!
When it does, you can say something, but seriously, we are no better now than when this lot took over, except we've lost Dobson and CBT and lost about £15m in money to date!
Fab
I'll grab a beer and celebrate..... Again we are "only" doing better this season because of how badly we did last season !
I never said we are. My post was in response to someone saying that if we don’t get promoted this season is regression, which is obviously not true. You can make progress without getting promoted
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
Wigan 20-21 finished 20th. The next season they won the league. Plymouth 20-21 finishes 18th. Next season they narrowly missed play offs finishing 7th after jumping 11 places. Oxford 22-23 finished 19th. Next season they were promoted. Reading last season finished 17th. They are currently in a playoff spot despite being under an embargo. In L2 last season Grimsby were 21th, Salford 20th, Notts County 14. They are currently 9, 3, 6 respectively In L2 in 22-23, Crawley were 22nd, next season promoted. Donny were 18th, next season 5th.
There are tonnes of examples of clubs jumping 10+ places in a season in the lower leagues. It needs good recruitment, usually some money and a decent manager.
Having patience whilst the club loses £9.5M pa is a nice position for a fan to be in. I wonder if our owners share that.
Anyway, sorry for further detailing the "rumour!" Thread!
Wigan were taken over and chucked silly money at it so not really comparable. Ended up causing them long term financial issues and they are back where they started
Plymouth were a club on the up with momentum, had just come up from L2 and continued that progression year on year. Again not really comparable to our situation
Oxford I’ve already mentioned, but they were a consistent play off/top 10 team for years and had 1 poor season. A lot easier to jump like that if you were there for years before
Reading is tbf a unique example, they are doing brilliantly with their academy. But I still don’t think they will finish in the top 6 and I think we will finish above them
League 2 there is often only a handful of points between the playoffs and the bottom half so those comparisons are again not really relevant at all.
We have been in decline on and off the pitch for years and finished 16th last season. Find me a team that turned that around in 1 season without throwing silly money at it (and even teams that do that often fail at first, see Ipswich). Demanding that we turn it around straight away is silly, of course we can aim for it but throwing our toys out the pram when we aren’t in the top 6 just looks a bit entitled
Bim People, has been recalled by Luton from Southend. Has been there best player this season - wonder if we might look at a loan deal for him with the Luton connection
Let’s wait to see how this pans out.
Rumours are he’s been seen looking at flats near Blackheath Village
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
Wigan 20-21 finished 20th. The next season they won the league. Plymouth 20-21 finishes 18th. Next season they narrowly missed play offs finishing 7th after jumping 11 places. Oxford 22-23 finished 19th. Next season they were promoted. Reading last season finished 17th. They are currently in a playoff spot despite being under an embargo. In L2 last season Grimsby were 21th, Salford 20th, Notts County 14. They are currently 9, 3, 6 respectively In L2 in 22-23, Crawley were 22nd, next season promoted. Donny were 18th, next season 5th.
There are tonnes of examples of clubs jumping 10+ places in a season in the lower leagues. It needs good recruitment, usually some money and a decent manager.
Having patience whilst the club loses £9.5M pa is a nice position for a fan to be in. I wonder if our owners share that.
Anyway, sorry for further detailing the "rumour!" Thread!
Do you think the owners came in expecting immediate results?
You’d surely need Sandgaard levels of delusion to think you’d come in and immediately fix everything and propel the club up the leagues. That would be the aim but it doesn’t always happen smoothly and I’d like to think anyone with a bit of money and sense would understand that.
You can do everything right and it still not happen. Hopefully our owners understand that concept.
Unlimited money to throw away every year, no but if you’re looking for immediate returns in a football club investment you’re not the right people for the job in the first place.
I’d expect they were aiming for promotion in the second season. But you have to always re-assess and evolve expectations. We finished 16th last season which is definitely a lot lower than they would have been expecting so you’ve got to adjust expectations from there
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
Wigan 20-21 finished 20th. The next season they won the league. Plymouth 20-21 finishes 18th. Next season they narrowly missed play offs finishing 7th after jumping 11 places. Oxford 22-23 finished 19th. Next season they were promoted. Reading last season finished 17th. They are currently in a playoff spot despite being under an embargo. In L2 last season Grimsby were 21th, Salford 20th, Notts County 14. They are currently 9, 3, 6 respectively In L2 in 22-23, Crawley were 22nd, next season promoted. Donny were 18th, next season 5th.
There are tonnes of examples of clubs jumping 10+ places in a season in the lower leagues. It needs good recruitment, usually some money and a decent manager.
Having patience whilst the club loses £9.5M pa is a nice position for a fan to be in. I wonder if our owners share that.
Anyway, sorry for further detailing the "rumour!" Thread!
Wigan were taken over and chucked silly money at it so not really comparable. Ended up causing them long term financial issues and they are back where they started
Plymouth were a club on the up with momentum, had just come up from L2 and continued that progression year on year. Again not really comparable to our situation
Oxford I’ve already mentioned, but they were a consistent play off/top 10 team for years and had 1 poor season. A lot easier to jump like that if you were there for years before
Reading is tbf a unique example, they are doing brilliantly with their academy. But I still don’t think they will finish in the top 6 and I think we will finish above them
League 2 there is often only a handful of points between the playoffs and the bottom half so those comparisons are again not really relevant at all.
We have been in decline on and off the pitch for years and finished 16th last season. Find me a team that turned that around in 1 season without throwing silly money at it (and even teams that do that often fail at first, see Ipswich). Demanding that we turn it around straight away is silly, of course we can aim for it but throwing our toys out the pram when we aren’t in the top 6 just looks a bit entitled
Plymouth momentum? They finished 18th their first season back, hardly momentum, then got 7th the following season. 11 place increase and 3 pts outside the play-offs. Which is pretty much another example of a club turning things around in a short period.
Bournemouth and Watford got 10th and 13th respectively in the championship in 2013/14, the following season they got 1st and 2nd.
You could even be more extreme and say Leicester went from 14th to 1st in the Premier league. An anomaly in that league, but it still happened.
The point is, it's been proven that sports teams can have fast turnarounds, if you deny that you're just denying facts and evidence at that point. It's been proven time and time again. There are of course examples where that hasn't been the case, but let's not twist the genuine examples to push your own view.
There are a number of fans who see Chartlon in league1 as a complete failure (I am of course firmly in that camp) there are then a number that are content on being in league1 and don't see it as a failure. Which is also fine, I just don't understand it.
This shouldn't be a discussion at this point, it's done every poxy year, and unfortunately, the 'negative' posters are usually right.
Not enough money is spent, we worry about losing our best players, we scramble around in January after a poor start, and when it's all said and done, Charlton finish outside the top6 and lose our best players in the summer.
Hopefully that isn't the case this year, a way of assuring that, would be some signings, which we desperately need if we want to a shout of play-offs.
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
Wigan 20-21 finished 20th. The next season they won the league. Plymouth 20-21 finishes 18th. Next season they narrowly missed play offs finishing 7th after jumping 11 places. Oxford 22-23 finished 19th. Next season they were promoted. Reading last season finished 17th. They are currently in a playoff spot despite being under an embargo. In L2 last season Grimsby were 21th, Salford 20th, Notts County 14. They are currently 9, 3, 6 respectively In L2 in 22-23, Crawley were 22nd, next season promoted. Donny were 18th, next season 5th.
There are tonnes of examples of clubs jumping 10+ places in a season in the lower leagues. It needs good recruitment, usually some money and a decent manager.
Having patience whilst the club loses £9.5M pa is a nice position for a fan to be in. I wonder if our owners share that.
Anyway, sorry for further detailing the "rumour!" Thread!
Wigan were taken over and chucked silly money at it so not really comparable. Ended up causing them long term financial issues and they are back where they started
Plymouth were a club on the up with momentum, had just come up from L2 and continued that progression year on year. Again not really comparable to our situation
Oxford I’ve already mentioned, but they were a consistent play off/top 10 team for years and had 1 poor season. A lot easier to jump like that if you were there for years before
Reading is tbf a unique example, they are doing brilliantly with their academy. But I still don’t think they will finish in the top 6 and I think we will finish above them
League 2 there is often only a handful of points between the playoffs and the bottom half so those comparisons are again not really relevant at all.
We have been in decline on and off the pitch for years and finished 16th last season. Find me a team that turned that around in 1 season without throwing silly money at it (and even teams that do that often fail at first, see Ipswich). Demanding that we turn it around straight away is silly, of course we can aim for it but throwing our toys out the pram when we aren’t in the top 6 just looks a bit entitled
Plymouth momentum? They finished 18th their first season back, hardly momentum, then got 7th the following season. 11 place increase and 3 pts outside the play-offs. Which is pretty much another example of a club turning things around in a short period.
Bournemouth and Watford got 10th and 13th respectively in the championship in 2013/14, the following season they got 1st and 2nd.
You could even be more extreme and say Leicester went from 14th to 1st in the Premier league. An anomaly in that league, but it still happened.
The point is, it's been proven that sports teams can have fast turnarounds, if you deny that you're just denying facts and evidence at that point. It's been proven time and time again. There are of course examples where that hasn't been the case, but let's not twist the genuine examples to push your own view.
There are a number of fans who see Chartlon in league1 as a complete failure (I am of course firmly in that camp) there are then a number that are content on being in league1 and don't see it as a failure. Which is also fine, I just don't understand it.
This shouldn't be a discussion at this point, it's done every poxy year, and unfortunately, the 'negative' posters are usually right.
Not enough money is spent, we worry about losing our best players, we scramble around in January after a poor start, and when it's all said and done, Charlton finish outside the top6 and lose our best players in the summer.
Hopefully that isn't the case this year, a way of assuring that, would be some signings, which we desperately need if we want to a shout of play-offs.
Getting promoted and staying up is an example of momentum yes
Once again, none of your examples show a team that has been declining for years be able to turn things around in 1 summer
No one is content about us being in league 1. But some of us recognise it’s not an easy task to turn around what has been arguably 10 years of decline on and off the pitch, in just 1 transfer window. And that progress up the league table is an acceptable result this season as it would leave us in a good place to challenge next season after finally turning around the decline
I get that as fans we are a bit more emotional and attacked to things, but I think most sensible neutral football people would probably look at our last 10 years and finishing position last season, and say that a top 10 finish is a good step in the right direction
Just don’t get how people can be so aware of the last 10 years where we’ve been mostly a declining basket case on and off the pitch, Roland, to ESI, to Elliot, to Sandgaard and to the Andy Scott disaster of last season, but then expect that to be fixed in 1 transfer window and us magically jump from a relegation battle to the top 6
I have never met a Charlton fan content to be in league 1
Yeah this is a myth
You're both saying this, but I've seen people say they'd take top10, strong finish this season etc.
At the very least people are temporarily content with us being in league1. There's posts on here that will show this. For how long that lasts, I don't know, but there is no doubt that there is an air of acceptance on this forum and at games at times. I'm not exactly making it up when these posts exist all over this forum.
What should be our rivals are signing players for 3 million, another have signed a Scandinavian centre back with European football experience for half a million, meanwhile, we are linked with 34 year old Sam fkn Clucas.
Like I said, some people want it now, and rightly so, as we have been told that's what the goal is, promotion. Others are happy to wait till whatever year. It is what it is.
I have never met a Charlton fan content to be in league 1
Yeah this is a myth
You're both saying this, but I've seen people say they'd take top10, strong finish this season etc.
At the very least people are temporarily content with us being in league1. There's posts on here that will show this. For how long that lasts, I don't know, but there is no doubt that there is an air of acceptance on this forum and at games at times. I'm not exactly making it up when these posts exist all over this forum.
What should be our rivals are signing players for 3 million, another have signed a Scandinavian centre back with European football experience for half a million, meanwhile, we are linked with 34 year old Sam fkn Clucas.
Like I said, some people want it now, and rightly so, as we have been told that's what the goal is, promotion. Others are happy to wait till whatever year. It is what it is.
I wouldn’t take top 10 if you offered it to me now or if you did at the start of the season, and I don’t think anyone else would
That doesn’t mean that finishing top 10 wouldn’t be a solid season and me saying that doesn’t mean I am content in league 1
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
I agree with this completely, I mentioned this many times when fans were going bonkers after the Crawley home game.
However, I do not agree with the end comment, surely you must see that Charlie and chums have not done well and fans are f***** off with what they see.
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
So being blunt mate, and not being rude, we haven't replaced them then in terms of quality?
Docherty so far has definitely been a downgrade on what Dobson offered, we have really missed a player with that engine and passing range.
Agreed there was a formation switch, but CBT scored 9 goals and got 6 assists for us last season and he left in January! I can't see anyone getting those numbers for the rest of the season even, except maybe Miles? Who is on 4 goals 2 assists. So another player not really replaced in terms of impact. Closest match is Tyreece who is still learning.
I can't even talk about May and Godden anymore, Godden seems a good bloke and I don't want to slander him but it's chalk and cheese.
It's sad that that's what it's come to. Top10 is seen as decent. Even myself the other day was thinking a narrow play off miss with an improved squad would be ok, but when you break it all down, it's woeful.
We haven’t replaced them individually with better players no, but are we a better team this season than last season? Definitely
We finished 16th last season, obviously the main fault lies with Mr Scott for that (and he shouldn’t still be here), but improving from 16th to top 6 is a huge jump. I obviously hoped we could get top 6 and was quite confident, but if we make progress this season and miss out, for me that’s still a positive that we can build on next season to be challenging
We just need to be patient, unless you’ve got shitloads of money, jumping from 16th to top 6 is not easy. We’ve had years of not making progress and going backwards, we are now finally turning the ship around and look like having a season where we actually make some progress
This is where I will have to agree to disagree with anyone on this subject.
I don't expect anyone to finish above Birmingham. But no other team had a real advantage over us. I do believe going from lower mid-table to top6 is possible with the right people in charge. Oxford from 19th to 5th, Wycombe 10th to currently 2nd.
3 newly promoted sides and Leyton Orient currently sit above us. The only side of those 4 who finished higher than us last season was The O's. Would any of us been happy with Orient being above us half way through the season or expected it? I think they were in the running for relegation at the start of the season. Barnsley went 5 games without winning and still firmly sit in the top6. We won 2 in 10 and are now a few wins strung together away from top6 ourselves. Readings owner despises them and they sit 6th.
This league is a fkn joke. 16th, 7th, 20th, all land you in the same place, a league1 team the next season. They said top6, they said we had the 4th highest budget, show it. Sign some quality. We do have shit loads of money, allegedly.
Anyway I'm clogging the thread with 0 rumours so apologies. But these lot need to pull a finger out and get lively. We know we have been weak from week 3. There should have been plans in place the second this window opened. Let's hope they show some ambition.
Did you just suggest that 10th is "lower mid table"? Orient form is possibly unsustainable but if you're using it as justification they had a rubbish start and are now on a brilliant run which is exactly what we need to make playoffs anyway. Wycombe and Stockport will be interesting to watch with players they lose and new ones settling in.
The thing that gives me hope is (in part due to NJ's defensive set up) that no team we've played has looked incredible and unbeatable.
Classic nitpicking, I meant Oxford, that's why I said them first and then said Wycombe, probably could have worded it differently, either way, who gives a fuck. You probably know what I meant, It's all the same shit. It isn't promotion and that's that, it's all the same for me other than than the 3 sides who go up.
All the rest is regression for this club.
So if we finished 5th and didn’t go up that’s regression? We finished 16th last season! Sometimes it takes longer than 1 season to build something, especially when we aren’t a team throwing millions about.
Wycombe and Oxford are poor examples, bar one season for Oxford, they have both been consistently in the top 10/play offs for years. Both are well run clubs and have been for a while. Making the jump from there to promotion contention is completely different to our situation. You can’t compare that to a team that has been a declining disaster on and off the field for years, it’s just silly
Why is the modern football fan so demanding and impatient? Lose a few games let’s sack the manager, why aren’t the owners spending millions, why haven’t we gone from 16th to top of the league in 1 window etc. Need to have some patience and realism
We aren't going to finish 5th! We've just won 3 games in a row, drawn the last, unbeaten in what, 6 games and yet here we are ... lofty 10th position!
You are trying to suggest something we've been very far off now for 5 years happening!
When it does, you can say something, but seriously, we are no better now than when this lot took over, except we've lost Dobson and CBT and lost about £15m in money to date!
Fab
I'll grab a beer and celebrate..... Again we are "only" doing better this season because of how badly we did last season !
Alex Mitchell reckons we’ll get in the playoffs according to today’s article in the SLP.
Linked with, and signing, are 2 different things. Remember the guy that was posted up as a major signing for Huddersfield a week ago? Came on as a sub and got himself sent off within half an hour, what a great bit of business that is!
Hopefully gets a chance, they seem a really good side this year so I'm surprised he's gone from non-league Hartlepool to them. Big test for young Nath if he gets a chance.
Hoping to see DK loaned to Gills if that rumour was true, I think he could smash it there and really build his confidence.
We want 1 or 2 signings and they aren’t reliant on outgoings happening first.
How does this tally with the discussion from the last couple of days? I hear we are rejecting bids for our players too… doesn’t seem like the owners are checked out to me.
“We’re not going to do massive business in this window. What we want is in the final third. That is what we need.
“We are going to try and streamline the squad because there are a few here now that aren’t playing and aren’t getting the minutes."
Rejecting bids for your best players is what ambitious clubs are supposed to do. Fair enough they didn't cash in, but could they really afford to? They'd have been given pelters. They rejected Dobsons bid, and we still haven't replaced Dobson. We accepted a bid for CBT, didn't replace his qualities, sold May, didn't replace his goals and general attacking influence.
So far, this is playing exactly how every Charlton transfer window does. Admittedly we are only a third the way through almost, and most of the business is done late, but I'll be shocked if we show the same level of ambition other clubs look to be doing.
I will be surprised if we spend a decent fee on a player this window, it would be a very welcome surprise though.
Docherty is Dobsons replacement. He’s not an upgrade but he has been replaced
We changed from 4-3-3 to 3-5-2 when CBT was sold. So you were never going to get a direct replacement. We did also sign Small who had similar qualities in getting us up the pitch with pace
May was replaced by Godden. Again not an upgrade but we have still replaced all 3 players.
The argument will be that the 1.2m or whatever it is we raised from May and CBT has been reinvested and leaves us with a better team/squad. If we finish in the top 10 then it’s hard to argue that we haven’t improved despite the sales
If we can shift a couple of players we don’t want and add a couple of good attacking players then that is a good window for me
Nice try at being positive, but... Docherty is not a defensive mid like Dobson and Coventry, who is, is not as good as Dobson. Small has not scored goals or created assists as CBT did And Godden cannot get into the first 11. So not 'replacements' in any meaningful sense.
Comments
It's easy to imagine the owners being sold a vision and expected trajectory and subsequently agreeing a certain range of spend and targets for the short and medium term. At face value, if that range is somewhere in the top 6 operating budget in whatever division it's a good sum of money for a leadership team and manager to have against a target of a top 6 place.
If I was asked a year ago to benchmark the owners, SMT, manager (MA) & coaches and the playing squad I'd have said the SMT, manager/coaches and playing squad were all barriers to success, i.e. top 6 for this season.
I'd guess, without any real knowledge, the SMT were the biggest barrier having undersold the cost and difficulty of achieving top 6 and that they were also a relatively weak leadership team. That the playing squad prior to the January '24 window closing was a definite boat anchor and that MA and his coaches were still a concern but a lesser one than the others.
In a little over a year we have essentially the same SMT and I think they're still easily the biggest barrier to top 6 as they'd be inclined not to admit the vision and costs were undersold. Perhaps Gavin Carter will help knock this barrier away.
The squad is much better than this time last year, we've added quality, depth and the academy guys have another year under their belt. Although it's not where I'd want it to be perhaps the undersold vision/cost is continuing to be quite a limiting factor?
[Associated with the squad, I'd include the output of the medical and conditioning team as a big improvement over what we had at the end of '23.]
I'd also say NJ and the coaches have helped put us in a much better place than 12 months ago. I'd have loved to have watched HMS PTL since August but when I think about how poor we were 12 months ago and how much better we are now I do believe we have the basis of a squad which will challenge strongly for promotion next year and perhaps one which, with the results we've achieved lately and with a following wind, may have a sniff of the playoffs this season......
I would love the Gavin and the SMT to blow away my concerns about the leadership. It's a big ask but I live in hope!
Unlimited money to throw away every year, no but if you’re looking for immediate returns in a football club investment you’re not the right people for the job in the first place.
the Northamption game it looked like we were going backwards.People were entitled to be concerned . If we carry on like we have since then, but finish say 8th, most reasonable people will accept that as progress, so long as the summer window is better handled than this last one.
However for balance sometimes it clicks after 2/3 windows. We’ve now got a style and formation that can be very effective, with the right signings we can take our recent performances up another level.
Berry has the technique and intelligence to score and create goals, but his legs are going - imagine replacing him with a similar but younger energetic player of the level of our defensive signings.
Same for improving on or having players who can at least come off the bench for TC and Small. We could have that pace throughout a game rather than them tiring and having to start every game.
No doubt those players are out and there and affordable, we just need to find them before other clubs do.
We are into season two of our ownerships reign. Excuse them the August window if you like, but if you think CM, AS and JR are going to do an Ipswich and take Charlton to successive back to back promotions you will be sorely disappointed.
We all have aspirations. This SMT will not achieve them for us. They also had pension fund money. We have financiers using their own money and so they are spending differently. You should always spend it more wisely when you are spending your own money. Pension funds speculate to accumulate. Based on the funds they had, spending money on getting Ipswich to the Premier League was a mere dip in the ocean and if it didn't work, oh well, it's not their money. Financial regulations in the US of A are different than in the UK. But I think you know that.
Plymouth were a club on the up with momentum, had just come up from L2 and continued that progression year on year. Again not really comparable to our situation
Oxford I’ve already mentioned, but they were a consistent play off/top 10 team for years and had 1 poor season. A lot easier to jump like that if you were there for years before
Reading is tbf a unique example, they are doing brilliantly with their academy. But I still don’t think they will finish in the top 6 and I think we will finish above them
League 2 there is often only a handful of points between the playoffs and the bottom half so those comparisons are again not really relevant at all.
Bournemouth and Watford got 10th and 13th respectively in the championship in 2013/14, the following season they got 1st and 2nd.
You could even be more extreme and say Leicester went from 14th to 1st in the Premier league. An anomaly in that league, but it still happened.
The point is, it's been proven that sports teams can have fast turnarounds, if you deny that you're just denying facts and evidence at that point. It's been proven time and time again. There are of course examples where that hasn't been the case, but let's not twist the genuine examples to push your own view.
There are a number of fans who see Chartlon in league1 as a complete failure (I am of course firmly in that camp) there are then a number that are content on being in league1 and don't see it as a failure. Which is also fine, I just don't understand it.
This shouldn't be a discussion at this point, it's done every poxy year, and unfortunately, the 'negative' posters are usually right.
Not enough money is spent, we worry about losing our best players, we scramble around in January after a poor start, and when it's all said and done, Charlton finish outside the top6 and lose our best players in the summer.
Hopefully that isn't the case this year, a way of assuring that, would be some signings, which we desperately need if we want to a shout of play-offs.
Once again, none of your examples show a team that has been declining for years be able to turn things around in 1 summer
No one is content about us being in league 1. But some of us recognise it’s not an easy task to turn around what has been arguably 10 years of decline on and off the pitch, in just 1 transfer window. And that progress up the league table is an acceptable result this season as it would leave us in a good place to challenge next season after finally turning around the decline
I get that as fans we are a bit more emotional and attacked to things, but I think most sensible neutral football people would probably look at our last 10 years and finishing position last season, and say that a top 10 finish is a good step in the right direction
At the very least people are temporarily content with us being in league1. There's posts on here that will show this. For how long that lasts, I don't know, but there is no doubt that there is an air of acceptance on this forum and at games at times. I'm not exactly making it up when these posts exist all over this forum.
What should be our rivals are signing players for 3 million, another have signed a Scandinavian centre back with European football experience for half a million, meanwhile, we are linked with 34 year old Sam fkn Clucas.
Like I said, some people want it now, and rightly so, as we have been told that's what the goal is, promotion. Others are happy to wait till whatever year. It is what it is.
That doesn’t mean that finishing top 10 wouldn’t be a solid season and me saying that doesn’t mean I am content in league 1
He is hardly going to comment otherwise.
https://www.charltonafc.com/news/nathan-asiimwe-joins-walsall-loan
Hoping to see DK loaned to Gills if that rumour was true, I think he could smash it there and really build his confidence.
Wonder if he is on the move.
Docherty is not a defensive mid like Dobson and Coventry, who is, is not as good as Dobson.
Small has not scored goals or created assists as CBT did
And Godden cannot get into the first 11.
So not 'replacements' in any meaningful sense.
you Do realise that we recently beat them 0-4 at their ground? Walsall will be in a relegation battle next year if they go up.