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Is Defeat A Failure ?
AndyG
Posts: 5,910
With a week to go before Wembley I was thinking how gutted I will be if we lose (which I have a feeling we will for some reason) but would this season be considered a success bearing in mind where we have come from if we don’t get promoted?
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at start of season most of us saw play offs as minimum achievement.To be playing Orient ( an inferior team ) imo in the final and have a double the amount of fans there a loss should be seen as a failure.28
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This season has been a vast improvement on last seasons lowest position for 98 years that's unarguable.
But as far as I'm concerned every season we spend in league one is a failure31 -
Yes... Because we should able to beat Leyton Orient.
But the season has still been a massive success, and we shouldnt forget that... Certainly given where we were last season, it feels crazy that we've bounced back to this point within just 12-months.
Feel if we dont go up this year, we will do automatically next year, as rather than going from season to season, trying to put a squad together than can cope in League One, we're actually building something longer term.11 -
Yes, it's failure.
We are playing a side where our squad is better, our budget is/was better, our infrastructure is bigger and more equipped for success, we finished higher than, and we beat twice in the league. We are favourites going into this game and comfortably imo, not to dismiss Orient, just being objective.
This one game determines our trajectory of the club for the next 5 or so years.
Lose, our best players probably move on, we need a bit of a rebuild, our manager could leave (has a track record for this) and we waste another whole season in a division that stagnates us a club while losing money hand over fist.
Win, we keep almost every single impactful player, our manager more than likely stays, we don't need to rebuild, just additions to survive in a higher tier, we have a chance to solidify ourselves as a 2nd tier team, and we gain momentum as a club off of all of this.
I know people will say it's progress, and it's still been a good season, I just have to disagree. Look at Bolton, ask Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland etc if they would have been happy with another season of this rubbish. It's only a good season if we go up.
Very happy we have the opportunity to gain promotion, very grateful we are in this position, but it's a must win game imo. This is a much easier chance than doing 46 games again, and our only objective in this league ever, should be promotion.
Lose and we are back to 9-15k crowds again for a whole season, win and we might have attendances of 17k upwards for a whole season.
Massive, massive game.
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On the day it is a failure
but
on the season not a failure or success but an improvement25 -
Before the season and up until January I thought it would be another season of struggle so the turnaround has been brilliant.
But now we're there, yes it would be. We need to get out of L1 and for the first time we may have a bit of stability behind the scenes in ownership to give us a shot of consolidating there1 -
If worst happens and we do stay down, but then go on to have a monster season going up as Champions, I'd personally look at the last half of this season being part of that process.
Ultimately though, feel we ned to do the job on the 25th6 -
Yes. Absolutely. When you see how close we came to automatics and consider how long it took to get our arses in gear, it would be an absolute failure if we fail to take advantage of this opportunity. That’s not to negate the superb achievements of the last five months for which credit to all concerned is duly given. But if we don’t complete the deal from here it will be a phenomenal opportunity lost.1
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Anything can happen in a one off game. I think failure is probably the wrong word. A massive disappointment / opportunity missed yes. However, if we do lose i'd like to see the owners step out of the shadows and give a rallying cry to NJ, the players and the fans to keep things together, re group and target a top 2 finish next year. The way NJ is talking, it won't be a disaster if we don't go up and i've been reliably informed that we are a year ahead of where the owners expected us to be if we do go up. That could do with being communicated to everybody if we don't do the business on Sunday. I think we will win on Sunday however.8
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Whatever happens on Sunday, the team will get a big round of applause from me 👏👏👏👏 A fantastic season28
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Is not an option !1
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ForeverAddickted said:Yes... Because we should able to beat Leyton Orient.
But the season has still been a massive success, and we shouldnt forget that... Certainly given where we were last season, it feels crazy that we've bounced back to this point within just 12-months.
Feel if we dont go up this year, we will do automatically next year, as rather than going from season to season, trying to put a squad together than can cope in League One, we're actually building something longer term.
If we lose on Sunday who's to say we still won't be rebuilding again next season?
The likes of Sniffer Dog the Hitman, TC, Tiny Tel, Jones, Edwards et al could all be prised away and we'd be back to square one.
If that were to happen it would not just be a failure but a massive failure.
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I'm confident enough we wont have a fire sale of outgoings; Small and maybe Campbell are the ones I'd be resigned to losing the most - We've already rejected bids in the past (if rumour is to be believed) for Jones, Campbell, Leaburn.Briston_Addick said:ForeverAddickted said:Yes... Because we should able to beat Leyton Orient.
But the season has still been a massive success, and we shouldnt forget that... Certainly given where we were last season, it feels crazy that we've bounced back to this point within just 12-months.
Feel if we dont go up this year, we will do automatically next year, as rather than going from season to season, trying to put a squad together than can cope in League One, we're actually building something longer term.
If we lose on Sunday who's to say we still won't be rebuilding again next season?
The likes of Sniffer Dog the Hitman, TC, Tiny Tel, Jones, Edwards et al could all be prised away and we'd be back to square one.
If that were to happen it would not just be a failure but a massive failure.
So if our owners are strong enough... I'd hope they do it again.
If negotiations are smart for once, we could lose Campbell like we did Jenkinson and build a better team as a result.
Doubt Godden would be prised away that easily either because of his age now.1 -
100%. Anything but promotion is failure but especially with this opportunity we've got on Sunday2
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The season will be a failure but it will also still have been quite a lot of progress3
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This.Garrymanilow said:The season will be a failure but it will also still have been quite a lot of progress
The club as a whole appears to be progressing and we've kept a manager for a whole season for the first time in a while but not going up is failure.
However, I do think the progress can continue and we'd be one of the favourites for automatic promotion next year.9 -
Yeah by definition it's a failure; we failed to get promoted. But I am more optimistic about the club than I have been since Bowyer got us up. Probably more so, as that promotion came on a wing and a prayer. So I wouldn't want to use that word at all.
It's entirely reasonable to give a manager 2-3 seasons to get his team up to the next level, getting promoted requires a lot of factors to go in the club's favour. So to be this close at this stage is extremely positive. I just hope we stick with him - and he with us - until we get there.
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We don't do failure...
Totally irrelevant thread, and not one that needs debating, certainly not before a kick has been made,
why do we always do this negative "what if " stuff, almost writing off any hope of winning, which we will do by the way...🤦♂️3 -
If I thought we could keep the key players and build to be stronger , it would be ok. If we stay down, lose those players , we are stuffed0
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I think somewhere amongst the amorphous mass of Charlton Life verbiage I said given previous seasons top 10 would be success. From where we are now the progress we have made, without promotion would be muted success.
If we don't go up it will be because of how the cards are dealt by the footballing gods on the day. Orient will not be a pushover and will relish being the little East End Club.
Total success will be determined by a win and hopefully that's what we will get.1 - Sponsored links:
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Harsh, but, yes. Anything over than promotion is failure.0
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I think you could, if you want to be harsh, argue we have already failed by not being good enough to gain automatic promotion. The play offs being a one off game can go either way. With the O’s winning six on the spin at the end of the league season they will be up for the game next week.We played very poorly in many games this season but had a good run after Christmas. Unfortunately we had a few more off games and had to hope Birmingham, Disney, Wycombe and Stockport all had a wobble too. We were a few games short and games like Crawley and Lincoln a few weeks back were the failure.I’ll be disappointed if we lose next week but I won’t think of that game being the point that we failed. I will look at the last few months and see them as a step forward compared to seasons over the last few years, then look forward to next season when we will be better placed for automatic promotion.We will win next week so we won’t have think what is failure.0
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stockports owners have taken the whole team to dubai - they obviously don't see falling at the semi's hurdle as failure and i think they've invested quite heavily - we may be a bigger club historically but its the here and now that matters when judging this season's performance0
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Pretty much see it the same it’s a game we need to win. We need it a lot more than Orient do.Braziliance said:Yes, it's failure.
We are playing a side where our squad is better, our budget is/was better, our infrastructure is bigger and more equipped for success, we finished higher than, and we beat twice in the league. We are favourites going into this game and comfortably imo, not to dismiss Orient, just being objective.
This one game determines our trajectory of the club for the next 5 or so years.
Lose, our best players probably move on, we need a bit of a rebuild, our manager could leave (has a track record for this) and we waste another whole season in a division that stagnates us a club while losing money hand over fist.
Win, we keep almost every single impactful player, our manager more than likely stays, we don't need to rebuild, just additions to survive in a higher tier, we have a chance to solidify ourselves as a 2nd tier team, and we gain momentum as a club off of all of this.
I know people will say it's progress, and it's still been a good season, I just have to disagree. Look at Bolton, ask Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, Sunderland etc if they would have been happy with another season of this rubbish. It's only a good season if we go up.
Very happy we have the opportunity to gain promotion, very grateful we are in this position, but it's a must win game imo. This is a much easier chance than doing 46 games again, and our only objective in this league ever, should be promotion.
Lose and we are back to 9-15k crowds again for a whole season, win and we might have attendances of 17k upwards for a whole season.
Massive, massive game.1 -
In L1, I see any season outside the Top 6 as a failure.
In terms of who we've had to face in the playoffs, losing would be a failure, but taking the season as a whole, 4th and losing at Wembley I wouldn't consider a failure.0 -
YES0
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Absolutely not and any suggestion that it is would be is an utterly bizarre take, we have (like any other club) no god given right to success. Our aim at the beginning of the season was play-offs, thats what was set out at the beginning of the season, we have succeeded in that. However we no have a chance to step forward and actually achieve something.
The aim is always to build something and Jones has shown that there is something building here, as long as we are moving forward I will be patient. However, If we don't go up come Sunday I won't be happy with getting to the play-offs next season, we need to actively be pushing and achieve top or at minimum going up via play-offs.
As for the argument that if we don't go up we will lose players or need to rebuild, it's an understandable but none the less misguided view and i will explain why those that believe it are wrong. Will we lose players more than likely, yes we will. However who are we likely to lose - Small (almost definitely), Campbell (more than likely but still in contract), Lloyd Jones (possibly but I would say unlikely and just signed a three year contract), Coventry (again unlikely but even if he did still in contract).
Last season we lost unarguably our 2 best players in May and Dobbo, yet we are a better team this season than we were last season, thats not a debate its quantifiable fact (I'm not starting the debate whether it was there fault or not, thats separate and silly anyway). So the idea that losing a couple of our better players and its unlikely we would lose ALL 4 I mentioned above is frankly illogical and screams in the face of the obvious evidence from last season. Equally even if we do go up this team will still need a substantial addition of players (and probably trim a few) to not be relegated immediately.0 -
Failure, we've not been promoted.AndyG said:With a week to go before Wembley I was thinking how gutted I will be if we lose (which I have a feeling we will for some reason) but would this season be considered a success bearing in mind where we have come from if we don’t get promoted?0 -
You have been on the beer I take it._MrDick said:Whatever happens on Sunday, the team will get a big round of applause from me 👏👏👏👏 A fantastic season0 -
Will be gutting but we need to keep on keeping on. Both times after we beat Sunderland we came straight down while they went up. I’m just going to cling on to that as I am a bit in the Ooh Aah camp of thinking by regression to the mean we will lose this one.5
