Evans back at SUFC (agreed terms with Oldham p.25)
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So after speaking out yesterday, Jessica Ennis has now been threatened with rape on twitter. Absolutely disgusting.
And it is that sort of thing that re-enforces the point that Evans should not be allowed back to football. Footballers have thousands of fans who worship them, especially if they are a star player. Because of this hero worship of a rapist, fans are now sending rape threats and all sorts of vile messages to defend him. These people are so influenced by Evans that they think that is acceptable, and I imagine think that doing what he did is also acceptable.
I agree people need to be rehabilated once they have served their time (he hasn't fully served his time anyway), but there is no way they should be allowed to return to a job such as football where, whether they intend to be or not, they are role models and hero worshipped by thousands of young children, teenagers and full grown adults.6 -
Most of the article traces the change in the legal system from when a woman's degree of "contributory negligence" in facilitating or encouraging the act counted against her in any claim of rape, to a situation today where the onus is entirely on the man to show he had full consent. That's a fact, not an opinion. The clumsy piece is associating the idea of personal responsibility and blame, which inevitably throws us back to the old concept of "contributory negligence".
More relevant would be highlighting that most men have no idea what the word "rape" now means. It's all well and good bandying the word about as if it's obvious and it means what it did even ten years ago. The difference between Evans being guilty, and his mates getting off, is a distinction even the legal profession struggle to reconcile, let alone an idiot with a cock in his trousers and a girl on his arm late on a Saturday night. The advice from a lawyer would probably be don't have sex with an intoxicated stranger unless you get signed consent. That's not being flippant, it's something that could almost be taken seriously because it's men who have to recognise what is consent where a woman makes no expression one way or the other.
We have clarified the woman's angle, what we are not highlighting is the man's need to change his outlook on casual sex or risk the consequences. If any good is to come of the Ched Evans episode it will not be from expressing horror and disgust as if he was the second coming of the Black Panther, but a grown up debate on how the law has changed and men had better wise up.8 -
Funny how Jessica ennis was tweeting how excited she was about meeting Mike Tyson, who arguably, raped his victim in a more brutal manner.
She's jumping on the bandwagon IMO.0 -
I've already said that he has the right for his old job back. But seeing the publicity this has got with hindsight SUFC maybe should have left alone.0
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Get your smearing right, Ennis-Hill did nothing of the sortGreenie Junior said:Funny how Jessica ennis was tweeting how excited she was about meeting Mike Tyson, who arguably, raped his victim in a more brutal manner.
She's jumping on the bandwagon IMO.6 -
colthe3rd said:
You can still think all rape is disgusting and lengthy prison sentences are deserved yet feel there can be differences between rape crimes.
Yes and Can-Addick listed them above.
The difference is that some, either thru' poor vocabulary, ignorance or in a few cases because they are making excuses for rape, are claiming that there are different levels of rape.
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This conversation is at risk of becoming unproductive....0
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The bit about the article that is confusing me relates to the mention of the girl asking 'him' to perform oral sex on her. Is the him Clayton Mcdonald or Ched Evans?
Wording confused me, but obviously who to and when that was spoken is pretty key.
It reads to me that the him is Ches Evans. Which goes against the facts quoted on here that she basically passed out and he forced himself on her. And if she was passed out, how did she make that invitation?
I'm thoroughly confused. Thank god nobody on this board does know what happened or it would go round all day.
What I will say is that I would hate to have the responsibility of being on a jury for a rape trial.1 -
But that's beside the point. The point is people are now worshipping Evans because of his status as a footballer and are tweeting vile rape threats.Greenie Junior said:Funny how Jessica ennis was tweeting how excited she was about meeting Mike Tyson, who arguably, raped his victim in a more brutal manner.
She's jumping on the bandwagon IMO.
Sort of pisses on people's claims that he isn't a role model just because he is a footballer.2 -
I think that bit is what Evans family are claiming what happened, which the court obviously didn't believe.DamoNorthStand said:The bit about the article that is confusing me relates to the mention of the girl asking 'him' to perform oral sex on her. Is the him Clayton Mcdonald or Ched Evans?
Wording confused me, but obviously who to and when that was spoken is pretty key.
It reads to me that the him is Ches Evans. Which goes against the facts quoted on here that she basically passed out and he forced himself on her. And if she was passed out, how did she make that invitation?
I'm thoroughly confused. Thank god nobody on this board does know what happened or it would go round all day.
What I will say is that I would hate to have the responsibility of being on a jury for a rape trial.1 - Sponsored links:
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As usual I thought the best way to see their reaction would be to look on their forum, their fans really dont careGreenie Junior said:Have a look on twitter, the United fans want him back. They don't care about ennis, or their patrons and sponsors stepping down.
first of they have a poll if he should return 61% say yes
they also have a thread where people are saying they should take her name down now because she is a hypocrite and does not care about the club and is only interested in money0 -
'Evans turned up, and the court was told that the girl asked him to perform oral sex on her, which he did'Addickforlife said:
I think that bit is what Evans family are claiming what happened, which the court obviously didn't believe.DamoNorthStand said:The bit about the article that is confusing me relates to the mention of the girl asking 'him' to perform oral sex on her. Is the him Clayton Mcdonald or Ched Evans?
Wording confused me, but obviously who to and when that was spoken is pretty key.
It reads to me that the him is Ches Evans. Which goes against the facts quoted on here that she basically passed out and he forced himself on her. And if she was passed out, how did she make that invitation?
I'm thoroughly confused. Thank god nobody on this board does know what happened or it would go round all day.
What I will say is that I would hate to have the responsibility of being on a jury for a rape trial.
that's the quote from the paper0 -
After his mate had already had sex with her, nice excuse but very highly unlikely don't you think, this girl who they had decided was unable to give consent due to how drunk she was , is hardly likely to have washed after the first guy, I doubt that even a nonce like evans would've done that1
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"Police investigate after a Twitter user writes he hopes Ched Evans rapes Jessica Ennis-Hill"
Now obviously it's completely out of line, but is it really a police matter?
There's no threat there whatsoever, just a crass, stupid statement from some stupid teenager.0 -
Can you find that tweet because I think you have confused Ennis with the Sky Sports girl who has resigned as patron and accepted that her tweet re Tyson was a mis judgementGreenie Junior said:Funny how Jessica ennis was tweeting how excited she was about meeting Mike Tyson, who arguably, raped his victim in a more brutal manner.
She's jumping on the bandwagon IMO.4 -
Yes it is a police matter. Outsid cyberworld someone has effectively shouted that to an anonymous crowd which cannot be accepted.SELR_addicks said:"Police investigate after a Twitter user writes he hopes Ched Evans rapes Jessica Ennis-Hill"
Now obviously it's completely out of line, but is it really a police matter?
There's no threat there whatsoever, just a crass, stupid statement from some stupid teenager.3 -
if you don't know if a woman gives consent or not you must be absolutely terrible in the sack.kentaddick said:
It's not just Sheffield. The idea that women are up for it just because they have had a drink is not acceptable. There is a "but". When women are up for it (you think, according to their behaviour towards you) and have had a drink, should you always decline just in case? The only way to be 100% certain that you have not just met someone with the sort of issues that could lead to morning complications is to NEVER dip your tool with a stranger. You may be 100% certain you had consent, but that's not going to be the test if you get accused of taking advantage. Perhaps those young lads will reflect on whether it is better to keep it in their trousers?Bryan_Kynsie said:
Think of how many young lads in Sheffield right now think because of what that awful website is saying, Women in general really are asking for it because they've had a drink etc etc.
Completely misses the point. The Evans case does send out a warning to young men who think drunk women are asking for it.3 -
Anonymous idiot on the internet in despicable threat shocker.
Hold the 14th page!
Unlimited voice + anonymity = empty threats and bullying... that's a given with the internet.
People disconnect from reality when they logon.
Look at Zimbardo's anonymity of crowds and basically any other study on how we act when we are anonymous and you will see people do ridiculous stuff they would never dream of doing normally when anonymous. It doesn't make it right but at the same time, no one is going to rape Jessica Ennis.0 -
can you not bring me into this pleaseHuskaris said:Anonymous idiot on the internet in despicable threat shocker.
Hold the 14th page!
Unlimited voice + anonymity = empty threats and bullying... that's a given with the internet.
People disconnect from reality when they logon. Paulie is actually a well respected lawyer in the real world.
I am the same online as in real life, not one of these mugs so dont start saying things like that6 -
Edited. And apologies.paulie8290 said:
can you not bring me into this pleaseHuskaris said:Anonymous idiot on the internet in despicable threat shocker.
Hold the 14th page!
Unlimited voice + anonymity = empty threats and bullying... that's a given with the internet.
People disconnect from reality when they logon. Paulie is actually a well respected lawyer in the real world.
I am the same online as in real life, not one of these mugs so dont start saying things like that
I will pray for you.1 - Sponsored links:
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Smudge was right, this is going round in circles and the details on the last page are disgusting.
All this whole episode has done is prove how much football is morally in the sewer. 61% of their fans only want him back because he scored goals in division 3.
Once again, Gordon Strachan sums it up completely when he was asked about Suarez during the world cup. Will football forgive? Of course it will. Football fans welcome back anyone if they are good.
It's probably why nobody gave a shit when we sacked Jamie Stuart.0 -
Not true at all. Disappointing to see these sort of lies written about a national icon.Greenie Junior said:Funny how Jessica ennis was tweeting how excited she was about meeting Mike Tyson, who arguably, raped his victim in a more brutal manner.
She's jumping on the bandwagon IMO.1 -
Degrees of rape as well. ClassyAthletico Charlton said:
Not true at all. Disappointing to see these sort of lies written about a national icon.Greenie Junior said:Funny how Jessica ennis was tweeting how excited she was about meeting Mike Tyson, who arguably, raped his victim in a more brutal manner.
She's jumping on the bandwagon IMO.0 -
I thought it had reached that point by the second page............Huskaris said:This conversation is at risk of becoming unproductive....
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This 'oral sex' thing - I presume this was the writer just quoting what his DEFENCE alleged? ("the court was told")
If so, the writer of the article is almost certainly getting some sort of a backhander from his dumb Girlfriend's parents. This is why that pitiful defence website defending him is *almost* contempt of court - they can afford the advice to know exactly what they can away with.
Really hope money doesn't talk at this next appeal. The sense of entitlement is incredible "You can't do this to me - I'm a footballer and I have a rich family, I can do what the f*** I like". He no doubt thinks the girl is a slag and therefore that gave him the right, too. Slag or not, it makes absolutely no difference, CHED EVANS IS A RAPIST AND HAS BEEN CONVICTED IN A COURT OF LAW.6 -
S U were clearly testing the water by allowing him to train with them. Given the outcry he won't now be signing for them.2
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I no longer post on this site on football issues. I will if I may make an exception on this topic. It appears some are having a problem understanding sexual abuse, sexual harassment and rape law.
Sexual contact between two parties requires both parties to provide their specific consent to such act.
The parties either consent or they do not consent. There is NO grey area and NO sliding scale for any offence.
In the absence of consent by any party the other party leaves themselves open to the complaint of rape and/or sexual abuse/ sexual harassment.
Crucial to such consent is the requirement for the consenting party to actually be competent to consent.
In the case of children and juveniles such competence is defined by the age of consent. While young persons under the age of consent may be willing to enter into sexual activity they are not legally able to consent to such acts. An adult who has any temporary or permanent mental disability is similarly protected as they too can not be construed as being in a fit state to provide their legal consent.
The issue here is clear. The complainant has made no comment on the events at the hotel. She stated from the outset she had no recollection of any of the events. The CPS drew the implication from such statement, corroborating evidence from eye witnesses and CCTV she was in no fit state to have provided any formal consent to any sexual act.
The actions of the 2 accused prior to entering and on departing the hotel gave the CPS cause for further enquiries. Their evidence was presented to the jury who on the balance of evidence convicted Evans of rape.
In essence no matter the deeds and words of the complainant the jury agreed she was not competent to provide consent and therefore any such deeds or words held no value. I accept that may give certain people cause for thought but that is the law.
Please consider there seemingly had been no prior interaction between Evans and the complainant before that night or between Evans and the complainant on that night until he lied (his admission) to secure a passkey to gain entry to the hotel room at 4.15 a.m. to involve himself in the existing physical interaction of 2 other people.
He departed circa 30 minutes later via the fire escape.
I will leave you to make your own judgements as to the acceptability of such behaviour. May I politely suggest such judgements may be best brought into focus by considering if the complainant were a wife, daughter, sister, niece or mother known to, connected to or part of your family.
Grades of rape? Really.
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I miss you grapevine
Bang on the money1 -
You may well be right but by threatening or wishing that on her the coward is clearly attempting to scare or intimidate her. It is still a very nasty and vile threat.Huskaris said:Anonymous idiot on the internet in despicable threat shocker.
Hold the 14th page!
Unlimited voice + anonymity = empty threats and bullying... that's a given with the internet.
People disconnect from reality when they logon.
Look at Zimbardo's anonymity of crowds and basically any other study on how we act when we are anonymous and you will see people do ridiculous stuff they would never dream of doing normally when anonymous. It doesn't make it right but at the same time, no one is going to rape Jessica Ennis.
If the police follow it up then it might stop him and others doing it again.3
