Sam's the man .. unless the FA went foreign the choice is really limited .. as another poster opined a while ago, it would be good if (say) Eddie Howe were asked to be Sam's p/t apprentice to allow for a (hopefully) seamless takeover after Sam goes ... as has been said on here, Sam just will not take any old nonsense from anybody, he was like that as a player, big moustache n'all, he's like it as a manager .. no frill, no nonsense well organised teams have been his forté .. negatives ?... Sam has always signed a lot of foreigners as a manager and a few years back there was (allegedly) some funny biz with his agent son, can't recall the details (and too idle to look it up)
Good choice IMO. Doesn't stand any BS. Some may not like his style, but he's proved he can also mix steady eddies with flair players. Signed some quality players for Bolton - Okocha, Anelka, Hierro, Djorkaeff, Speed and Bobic to name but a few.
In all honesty I think he just gets the best results with the players at his disposal. If you want a real dianasour have a look at Tony Pulis.
And, I always new Kevin Nolan would win and England cap.
Anyone digging out Sam Allardyce about his style of football I assume digs Jose Mourinho for the same thing
He has always over achieved with what he's had. He has never been given a chance at a big club with a big budget and some real quality in their prime
He is the main reason so much sports science is used in top level football these days. Opta, pro-zone he was into it and will say himself that's a big part of how he did so well at Bolton.
He also saw how to use players like Djorkaeff, Hierro, Campo, Okacha and Speed. He played career ball playing centre halves in midfield, he saw Jay-Jay Okacha could throw a ball miles and used that as well as his ridiculous armoury of tricks.
Say what you like about his teams but they are hard to beat, always seem to know their jobs and stick to them. Football is about winning games, once you get good at that freedom to play come naturally.
Kevin Keegan supposedly got his team's to play attractive football. Didn't really rub off with England.....
I'd rather our players just had a bit more courage and aggression.
Hes the reason Sunderland will be playing premier league football next season. To achieve that, at that current time and with the below average prem players at his disposal was a tough tough ask and he done it.
Never in doubt.
The question is, do we think allardyce is a man capable of winning a tournament for England?
I don't know. Im not convinced of that.
From what we know of him and his style...he would restore some pride back and make us more resilient.
He wouldn't make the kind of flimsy wanker decisions that Roy did. Which is a start.
Would be firm and direct with what he wants.
This job changes a man though. Your entering into a different universe. I hope he would be ready and adapt to that quickly.
Anyone digging out Sam Allardyce about his style of football I assume digs Jose Mourinho for the same thing
He has always over achieved with what he's had. He has never been given a chance at a big club with a big budget and some real quality in their prime
He is the main reason so much sports science is used in top level football these days. Opta, pro-zone he was into it and will say himself that's a big part of how he did so well at Bolton.
He also saw how to use players like Djorkaeff, Hierro, Campo, Okacha and Speed. He played career ball playing centre halves in midfield, he saw Jay-Jay Okacha could throw a ball miles and used that as well as his ridiculous armoury of tricks.
Say what you like about his teams but they are hard to beat, always seem to know their jobs and stick to them. Football is about winning games, once you get good at that freedom to play come naturally.
Absolutely spot on mate.
At least we would have a distinct style of play under big Sam, and the players would have a clear vision and pattern of play.
Under that buffoon Hodgson, can anybody honestly say that they knew what we were trying to do? There seemed to be lots of pointless possession of the ball, whilst creating very little. The Iceland game being the worst performance that I have ever seen from any England side, and I have seen some shockers!
Like others have said, he is able to make the best out of what he has to work with, whilst previous incumbents have displayed a remarkable ability to do the opposite.
Very well put Jessie and at the risk of sounding like a bit cruel you understand the game better than an awful lot of regular match goers who post on here
Sam Allardyce is pragmatic, he does the best with the resources given to him. There are a lot of people in football management who know how to coach players who are easy to coach but have no idea of actual leadership in management. Can anyone blame him for playing direct football with limited resources? The graveyard of football management is littered with coaches who thought all they had to do was play pretty football and the rest would just happen.
So much more it's down to how you get a group of difficult, obnoxious young men to come together and do what you tell them. Neil Warnock is another who understands this, Tony Pulis also and I'm sure there are many others and I'd probably include Harry Redknapp in that bit he is tactically moronic.
Anyone digging out Sam Allardyce about his style of football I assume digs Jose Mourinho for the same thing
He has always over achieved with what he's had. He has never been given a chance at a big club with a big budget and some real quality in their prime
He is the main reason so much sports science is used in top level football these days. Opta, pro-zone he was into it and will say himself that's a big part of how he did so well at Bolton.
He also saw how to use players like Djorkaeff, Hierro, Campo, Okacha and Speed. He played career ball playing centre halves in midfield, he saw Jay-Jay Okacha could throw a ball miles and used that as well as his ridiculous armoury of tricks.
Say what you like about his teams but they are hard to beat, always seem to know their jobs and stick to them. Football is about winning games, once you get good at that freedom to play come naturally.
Anymore hyperbole you want to throw out there about him?
I think Jose does get a lot of criticism about his style of football. I think the difference between the two of them though is perhaps Mourinho can handle the world class players better (last season aside of course).
He didn't over achieve at Newcastle or West Ham. He did about par to below par at both.
He isn't the "main reason" sports science is used now, that is quite frankly a ridiculous statement to make. He might have been the first person you saw using it. I will give you that at least he did use it and seemingly to his advantage.
And it must have taken a genius to see that Okocha had a long throw in, he must have used so much sports science to unlock that tactical masterstroke.
I think we are now producing decent players - what we have to identify is how do we create the conditions for a Bale, Messi or Ronaldo.....or even another Rooney to emerge. What do you have to do differently for these type of players who elevate the team to appear. Is it too much coaching or not enough coaching? Maybe if we created the conditions a few might emerge!
I think we are now producing decent players - what we have to identify is how do we create the conditions for a Bale, Messi or Ronaldo.....or even another Rooney to emerge. What do you have to do differently for these type of players who elevate the team to appear. Is it too much coaching or not enough coaching? Maybe if we created the conditions a few might emerge!
Bale came through the "English" system, so by that logic we're doing everything right. Our U20s just won the Toulon tournament, our U19s beat France last week too, so it would appear we're doing the right things,up to the point where they pull on an England shirt in a senior tournament, then it all falls apart. Literally at every stage before a major tournament, from school boy football, through youth/age group teams, qualification and friendlies we are excelling.
That means it's not an ability problem, or necessarily a coaching problem, it's a psychology problem, and it doesn't just effect players. Hodgson had played the same system with largely the same players to great success in the qualifiers, got to the tournament and abandoned both.
I think we are now producing decent players - what we have to identify is how do we create the conditions for a Bale, Messi or Ronaldo.....or even another Rooney to emerge. What do you have to do differently for these type of players who elevate the team to appear. Is it too much coaching or not enough coaching? Maybe if we created the conditions a few might emerge!
The problem is, we aren't. Well not enough of them anyway. We have maybe a couple of very good players. Other than that our options are very limited.
Anyone digging out Sam Allardyce about his style of football I assume digs Jose Mourinho for the same thing
He has always over achieved with what he's had. He has never been given a chance at a big club with a big budget and some real quality in their prime
He is the main reason so much sports science is used in top level football these days. Opta, pro-zone he was into it and will say himself that's a big part of how he did so well at Bolton.
He also saw how to use players like Djorkaeff, Hierro, Campo, Okacha and Speed. He played career ball playing centre halves in midfield, he saw Jay-Jay Okacha could throw a ball miles and used that as well as his ridiculous armoury of tricks.
Say what you like about his teams but they are hard to beat, always seem to know their jobs and stick to them. Football is about winning games, once you get good at that freedom to play come naturally.
Anymore hyperbole you want to throw out there about him?
I think Jose does get a lot of criticism about his style of football. I think the difference between the two of them though is perhaps Mourinho can handle the world class players better (last season aside of course).
He didn't over achieve at Newcastle or West Ham. He did about par to below par at both.
He isn't the "main reason" sports science is used now, that is quite frankly a ridiculous statement to make. He might have been the first person you saw using it. I will give you that at least he did use it and seemingly to his advantage.
And it must have taken a genius to see that Okocha had a long throw in, he must have used so much sports science to unlock that tactical masterstroke.
We don't know how Sam would handle elite level players on their prime as he's never been at a club with a glut of them. He's done well with the ones I'd mentioned though hasn't he?
He turned West Ham around. They got relegated playing pretty losing football. He got them promoted and stabilised playing direct, effective football. Bilic was then able to come in and build. I think he got a rough ride personally. Newcastle he was had over as soon as Ashley came in.
I tell you what, big clubs had no interest at all in the data analysis Bolton were doing. Him and sir Clive Woodward were the biggest exponents of it at the time. Why would Manchester United bother with little 1% improvements when they are capable of assembling the squads they do? They all do now and in English football it was the success Allardyce had with Bolton that alerted them to it.
If it didn't take a genius to work out Okocha had a long throw why did so many sides get caught unprepared by it? Sure sides prepared for it after 3 months of watching it but by then he'd caused enough problems from it.
Pick apart what I said by all means, fact remains his sides are always prepared and tactically know what they are meant to be doing
Anyone digging out Sam Allardyce about his style of football I assume digs Jose Mourinho for the same thing
He has always over achieved with what he's had. He has never been given a chance at a big club with a big budget and some real quality in their prime
He is the main reason so much sports science is used in top level football these days. Opta, pro-zone he was into it and will say himself that's a big part of how he did so well at Bolton.
He also saw how to use players like Djorkaeff, Hierro, Campo, Okacha and Speed. He played career ball playing centre halves in midfield, he saw Jay-Jay Okacha could throw a ball miles and used that as well as his ridiculous armoury of tricks.
Say what you like about his teams but they are hard to beat, always seem to know their jobs and stick to them. Football is about winning games, once you get good at that freedom to play come naturally.
Anymore hyperbole you want to throw out there about him?
I think Jose does get a lot of criticism about his style of football. I think the difference between the two of them though is perhaps Mourinho can handle the world class players better (last season aside of course).
He didn't over achieve at Newcastle or West Ham. He did about par to below par at both.
He isn't the "main reason" sports science is used now, that is quite frankly a ridiculous statement to make. He might have been the first person you saw using it. I will give you that at least he did use it and seemingly to his advantage.
And it must have taken a genius to see that Okocha had a long throw in, he must have used so much sports science to unlock that tactical masterstroke.
We don't know how Sam would handle elite level players on their prime as he's never been at a club with a glut of them. He's done well with the ones I'd mentioned though hasn't he?
He turned West Ham around. They got relegated playing pretty losing football. He got them promoted and stabilised playing direct, effective football. Bilic was then able to come in and build. I think he got a rough ride personally. Newcastle he was had over as soon as Ashley came in.
I tell you what, big clubs had no interest at all in the data analysis Bolton were doing. Him and sir Clive Woodward were the biggest exponents of it at the time. Why would Manchester United bother with little 1% improvements when they are capable of assembling the squads they do? They all do now and in English football it was the success Allardyce had with Bolton that alerted them to it.
If it didn't take a genius to work out Okocha had a long throw why did so many sides get caught unprepared by it? Sure sides prepared for it after 3 months of watching it but by then he'd caused enough problems from it.
Pick apart what I said by all means, fact remains his sides are always prepared and tactically know what they are meant to be doing
Good post.
He gets the best out of players. Shrewd manager.
Looking back at the Iceland game, nobody on the pitch knew what they were doing, wouldn't have been the case under Big Sam. Well thought of by a lot of managers in the game, and respected.
I meant we are producing production line players decent enough to support a team with a Bale and a Ronaldo in it. What we are missing is a Bale or a Ronaldo!!! I don't think anybody has really thought about how you can nurture the production of this type of player. Maybe our academy system, where we look for one thing and possibly coach flair and genius out of promising players could be an issue! A premiership team just buys them in from abroad!
Our attitude to flair can help to answer. Hoddle was always behind Robson (excellent player that he was) in terms of who the England team was built around. Le Tissier always had to prove himself - nobody took that punt on giving him a decent run. There are other examples!
Problem is you have to build a team around players like Matt Le Tissier or Glenn Hoddle or in our recent history Jonjo Shelvey
Then the inconsiderate bastards go an get injured or snapped up by a better team
You are spot on muttley, and I thoroughly agree with you. Sadly until we do nurture as opposed to beat out any talented maverick players we will tread water and probably be out thought by sides that may be inferior overall bit support the main act.
We haven't had a conductor since 2004 in Scholes to construct a side around and now Jonjo is playing in division 2 I can't see where we get this playmaker from. It isn't Delle Alli he's a cracking player but no conductor
We will only be able to win ugly against the better teams at Tournaments. We don't have enough high quality players to do otherwise. The next England Manager's task should be to win at Tournaments, irrespective of the style of football used.
Very true, you have to maximise what you have. If I was England manager, I would go into the next tournament with as difficult a team to beat as possible! They nearly got knocked out on the group stages and were undeserving winners, but this approach served Portugal well enough.
When Sven took over and he picked SCP, it seemed we might genuinely have a manager who would look beyond the big 4.
That didn't continue and he and the next managers fell into picking the same players from the top 4.
If Sam comes in I would hope he would be more open to looking at players from all teams and breaking up the comfort factor players have in always being in the team/squad
Comments
negatives ?... Sam has always signed a lot of foreigners as a manager and a few years back there was (allegedly) some funny biz with his agent son, can't recall the details (and too idle to look it up)
In all honesty I think he just gets the best results with the players at his disposal. If you want a real dianasour have a look at Tony Pulis.
And, I always new Kevin Nolan would win and England cap.
He has always over achieved with what he's had. He has never been given a chance at a big club with a big budget and some real quality in their prime
He is the main reason so much sports science is used in top level football these days. Opta, pro-zone he was into it and will say himself that's a big part of how he did so well at Bolton.
He also saw how to use players like Djorkaeff, Hierro, Campo, Okacha and Speed. He played career ball playing centre halves in midfield, he saw Jay-Jay Okacha could throw a ball miles and used that as well as his ridiculous armoury of tricks.
Say what you like about his teams but they are hard to beat, always seem to know their jobs and stick to them. Football is about winning games, once you get good at that freedom to play come naturally.
This day has been coming for a while.
Kevin Keegan supposedly got his team's to play attractive football. Didn't really rub off with England.....
I'd rather our players just had a bit more courage and aggression.
Hes the reason Sunderland will be playing premier league football next season. To achieve that, at that current time and with the below average prem players at his disposal was a tough tough ask and he done it.
Never in doubt.
The question is, do we think allardyce is a man capable of winning a tournament for England?
I don't know. Im not convinced of that.
From what we know of him and his style...he would restore some pride back and make us more resilient.
He wouldn't make the kind of flimsy wanker decisions that Roy did. Which is a start.
Would be firm and direct with what he wants.
This job changes a man though. Your entering into a different universe. I hope he would be ready and adapt to that quickly.
At least we would have a distinct style of play under big Sam, and the players would have a clear vision and pattern of play.
Under that buffoon Hodgson, can anybody honestly say that they knew what we were trying to do? There seemed to be lots of pointless possession of the ball, whilst creating very little. The Iceland game being the worst performance that I have ever seen from any England side, and I have seen some shockers!
Like others have said, he is able to make the best out of what he has to work with, whilst previous incumbents have displayed a remarkable ability to do the opposite.
Sam Allardyce is pragmatic, he does the best with the resources given to him. There are a lot of people in football management who know how to coach players who are easy to coach but have no idea of actual leadership in management. Can anyone blame him for playing direct football with limited resources? The graveyard of football management is littered with coaches who thought all they had to do was play pretty football and the rest would just happen.
So much more it's down to how you get a group of difficult, obnoxious young men to come together and do what you tell them. Neil Warnock is another who understands this, Tony Pulis also and I'm sure there are many others and I'd probably include Harry Redknapp in that bit he is tactically moronic.
I think Jose does get a lot of criticism about his style of football. I think the difference between the two of them though is perhaps Mourinho can handle the world class players better (last season aside of course).
He didn't over achieve at Newcastle or West Ham. He did about par to below par at both.
He isn't the "main reason" sports science is used now, that is quite frankly a ridiculous statement to make. He might have been the first person you saw using it. I will give you that at least he did use it and seemingly to his advantage.
And it must have taken a genius to see that Okocha had a long throw in, he must have used so much sports science to unlock that tactical masterstroke.
That means it's not an ability problem, or necessarily a coaching problem, it's a psychology problem, and it doesn't just effect players. Hodgson had played the same system with largely the same players to great success in the qualifiers, got to the tournament and abandoned both.
He turned West Ham around. They got relegated playing pretty losing football. He got them promoted and stabilised playing direct, effective football. Bilic was then able to come in and build. I think he got a rough ride personally. Newcastle he was had over as soon as Ashley came in.
I tell you what, big clubs had no interest at all in the data analysis Bolton were doing. Him and sir Clive Woodward were the biggest exponents of it at the time. Why would Manchester United bother with little 1% improvements when they are capable of assembling the squads they do? They all do now and in English football it was the success Allardyce had with Bolton that alerted them to it.
If it didn't take a genius to work out Okocha had a long throw why did so many sides get caught unprepared by it? Sure sides prepared for it after 3 months of watching it but by then he'd caused enough problems from it.
Pick apart what I said by all means, fact remains his sides are always prepared and tactically know what they are meant to be doing
He gets the best out of players. Shrewd manager.
Looking back at the Iceland game, nobody on the pitch knew what they were doing, wouldn't have been the case under Big Sam. Well thought of by a lot of managers in the game, and respected.
Certainly deserves the opportunity.
Our attitude to flair can help to answer. Hoddle was always behind Robson (excellent player that he was) in terms of who the England team was built around. Le Tissier always had to prove himself - nobody took that punt on giving him a decent run. There are other examples!
Then the inconsiderate bastards go an get injured or snapped up by a better team
You are spot on muttley, and I thoroughly agree with you. Sadly until we do nurture as opposed to beat out any talented maverick players we will tread water and probably be out thought by sides that may be inferior overall bit support the main act.
We haven't had a conductor since 2004 in Scholes to construct a side around and now Jonjo is playing in division 2 I can't see where we get this playmaker from. It isn't Delle Alli he's a cracking player but no conductor
That didn't continue and he and the next managers fell into picking the same players from the top 4.
If Sam comes in I would hope he would be more open to looking at players from all teams and breaking up the comfort factor players have in always being in the team/squad
Fat Sam is a crooked as old baggy chops
I no.longer care who gets it as long as it's not pardont
No manager can fix the problem, the problem is sky