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Buying British
Mendonca In Asdas
Posts: 22,652
I heard on the radio the other day the stat that 90% of the fruit we eat in this country is imported , and 50% of the veg we consume is imported as well.
Are we too reliant on other countries to do things for us, and is this a good thing as a country, or are we just pampered, lazy and spoilt spoilt for choice as 'consumers'
Is buying British a thing of the past, (has it always been like this) or will it make a comeback , not just in the food industry.
( I really didn't want this to become a political discussion, more a comment on whether it is possible to buy british , or whether it even matters).
I understand its a free market , and supermarlets can buy from where ever they like ( and maybe we just haven't got the climate or willing workforce to produce stuff).
Are we too reliant on other countries to do things for us, and is this a good thing as a country, or are we just pampered, lazy and spoilt spoilt for choice as 'consumers'
Is buying British a thing of the past, (has it always been like this) or will it make a comeback , not just in the food industry.
( I really didn't want this to become a political discussion, more a comment on whether it is possible to buy british , or whether it even matters).
I understand its a free market , and supermarlets can buy from where ever they like ( and maybe we just haven't got the climate or willing workforce to produce stuff).
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You can't raise economic questions without it being political.6
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Basic economic theory; due to our high wages and high cost of standard of living, British food is generally more expensive than that produced elsewhere, even when factoring in import taxes. Our climate does not lend itself either to many products that others cannot produce or at least in a cost-effective way or a high-enough quality. People want cheap fruit and veg, so the supermarkets give them what they want.
People also have no idea about food seasons anymore, so when they pick up a punnet of strawberries, they have no idea that at that time of the year there is absolutely no way those strawberries could be British, they do not even bother looking at the label. The rise of supermarkets, online delivery and convenience stores have replaced the greengrocer, who would ordinarily attempt to stock local produce, or at least British and seasonal veg, so even if you did not know about food seasons, you could buy off someone who steered you towards the ideal produce.
Furthermore, again economic theory - comparative advantage. Brits are better at other things than growing fruit and veg, therefore we generally export those services in order to buy the fruit and veg we want.
Not sure buying British will ever come back, at least in a meaningful way, as opposed to gimmicky. It is not necessarily a bad thing, apart from the carbon footprint of importing all these goods, as well as leaving us incredibly vulnerable in the event of a trade crisis or a war or blockade that cuts us off our supply lines. But from a cooking standpoint, better food education would be a plus, as seasonal dishes definitely taste better when the ingredients are fresh and in season.22 -
A lot of it is our demand for year round non seasonal food, like strawberries as mentioned by Fiiish, or things we can't really grow, like bananas, oranges, peppers or aubergines. If we stuck to seasonal food, this time of year we'd be eating a lot of potatoes, root veg and fruit stored from the autumn harvest like apples or pears.
We've imported fruit at least since Roman times, though usually as a luxury item (oranges in the Restoration for example). We've also lost the taste for (and skill) our historic forms of preservation like jams, pickles and chutneys.
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Think buying British is very much a thing of the past, the extraordinary case of no longer having a mainstream British car manufacturer is testament to that. When I go to France, cars which are not either a Peugeot, Renault or Citroen are in the minority, there are loads of Seats on the roads in Spain, and Italy is full of Fiats and Alfas. Obviously the German's happily buy home-manufactured cars as there better than anyone else's.
My dad always insisted on buying British-made cars - Morris Marina, 3 Austin/Rover Montegos and a Jag, a Land Rover and a Rover 800 as company cars - no problems with any in terms of reliability or performance, but nobody else's dad seemed to adopt the same policy.
Don't really understand the thing with fruit and veg. Obviously some stuff can only come from abroad due to the climate, but occasionally I'll pick up something as basic as a bag of spuds and find that they're imported. Why is that?
We do seem to do a lot less in this country than other nations do to protect and support our own businesses. Was pleased to read that the Crossrail Trains are being manufactured in the UK though.0 -
It's not so much a political issue, as changes in tastes. as people now want "Summer" fruit and veg all year round.
There are British winter vegetables in the shops, but people also want items that couldn't be grown in the UK at this time of year, Broccoli, salad crops etc
Similarly, if we ate only British fruit, our diet in winter would be pretty boring. No citrus fruit, bananas, grapes, berries etc All we'd have would be autumn fruit from cold storage, such as apples and pears0 -
Good luck with that. Food is probably a seasonal issue and growing and supplying sufficient quantities for year round supply to the consumer isn't likely to happen. Manufactured goods these days tend to have components that have multi-country components so labelling any product as originating from any particular country can be misleading. Price also plays a big decision and if something can be produced in a low value economy and shipped here more cheaply than it can be produced here then it's going to have an advantage. Subsidised finance also plays a big part but that could be a time bomb for some foreign countries if a load of debt that may not actually be repaid has to be written off at some stage instead of just ticking over on balance sheets. Our current account in this country may be shit on the face of it but it probably still relies on some antiquated data gathering to get to the figures. The UK's economy is actually pretty dynamic but the data produced doesn't always keep up with it and paints a gloomier picture. There are a lot of success stories in this country but it's the news lowest common denominator story that grabs the headlines and people think it's a major issue. Countries like Spain, Italy etc not having fruit and vegetables to sell the U.K. Is not our problem, it's theirs. We can buy our fruit and veg from somewhere else.1
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Globalization is hard.
I had an avocado for dinner last night and it was bloody brilliant. Obviously I'm in the states, so it's a bit different, but it certainly wasn't grown here (probably Chile or Mexico).
But of course what were the carbon costs, the economic costs to my country's economy (probably positive as importing does still create jobs, and if I didn't eat that avocado I wouldn't have eaten something American grown), and the cost to the country where it was exported (farm workers in many "lesser-developed" nations are often treated terribly)? Plus, there is the carbon cost of them growing avocados instead of something more natural to grow/deforestation, etc.
I've not answered your question at all here. I'm just spit balling. As an aside, I do think food production is different from manufacturing, but I grew up and live very near to California which can grow just about anything I eat ~9months/year, so that is probably just my bias because a country like the UK is not capable of growing all the foods it consumes ~9 months out of the year.
Globalization is hard.2 -
If you buy direct from farm shops, or are happy to limit yourself in what you buy from the supermarket then yes, you can buy British. We do have a willing workforce to produce stuff, but they are mostly not originally from Britain, and this is where it "gets political".6
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There was atime where people always bought British when they could but that time has long gone. People demand quality and value nowabove everything and british goods have to match up there first.0
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There has probably never been a time, post dinosaurs, when the people from this island only bought 'British'MuttleyCAFC said:There was atime where people always bought British when they could but that time has long gone. People demand quality and value nowabove everything and british goods have to match up there first.
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Indeed the origins of the British empire come from people travelling the high seas to get the goods we desired, but couldn't produce ourselves.letthegoodtimesroll said:
There has probably never been a time, post dinosaurs, when the people from this island only bought 'British'MuttleyCAFC said:There was atime where people always bought British when they could but that time has long gone. People demand quality and value nowabove everything and british goods have to match up there first.
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In the 70s people bough British cars and British TVs etc... and them being British was a selling point.0
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Hmm. When I am in Eltham, where do I shop, if I want to give British fruit and veg preference? If I go to a medium size German town, such as Reutlingen near Stuttgart, the market is the heart of the town. It doesn't sell exclusively German produce at all, since Germany doesn't do bananas, but the local stuff is heavily promoted, so you know what to go for. Meanwhile the big German hypermarket Globus, in its fruit and veg section, always has "Gut Von Hier" section for local produce. Especially good in asparagus season. Eltham Sainsbury doesn't do that, and I have no idea where the nearest fresh fruit and veg market is. As for France, well we all know the story, I guess. The conclusion I draw is that the British can't be assed to support local produce. They just want the convenience and perceived low price of their local supermarket.MuttleyCAFC said:There was atime where people always bought British when they could but that time has long gone. People demand quality and value nowabove everything and british goods have to match up there first.
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Wasn't this the logic behind putting the country of origin on produce? Often with flags.PragueAddick said:
Hmm. When I am in Eltham, where do I shop, if I want to give British fruit and veg preference? If I go to a medium size German town, such as Reutlingen near Stuttgart, the market is the heart of the town. It doesn't sell exclusively German produce at all, since Germany doesn't do bananas, but the local stuff is heavily promoted, so you know what to go for. Meanwhile the big German hypermarket Globus, in its fruit and veg section, always has "Gut Von Hier" section for local produce. Especially good in asparagus season. Eltham Sainsbury doesn't do that, and I have no idea where the nearest fresh fruit and veg market is. As for France, well we all know the story, I guess. The conclusion I draw is that the British can't be assed to support local produce. They just want the convenience and perceived low price of their local supermarket.MuttleyCAFC said:There was atime where people always bought British when they could but that time has long gone. People demand quality and value nowabove everything and british goods have to match up there first.
I'm not sure the last time that the origin ever influenced a purchase of mine though. Which is weird, because for drinks it definitely does.1 -
Yes, the Union Jack was often put on produce- including electrical etc... at a time when people were more loyal and more distrustful of foreign goods. It is changing accross Europe, but in the 60s and 70s most Italians only bought Italian cars and the British, though not to the same degree, supported the British car industry. We turned against our own quicker than other European countries, but whilst you still see a lot of FIATs in Italy, you also see far more foreign cars. That is just one example, but it it has interested me why we are so proud of our britishness but not when it comes to backing our produce! When given a choice I will always buy British by the way.0
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So I'm going to try to do this without being political because I think it's an interesting and difficult question:
We're going through a phase in the States right now of "buying American" and increasing American manufacturing, and potentially punishing imports/importing countries.
Putting some of Trump's more extreme rhetoric (particularly around trade) aside, and just dealing with manufacturing, this is an interesting and difficult question. We have manufacturing jobs that are gone. In some cases gone overseas, in many cases gone to automation.
Both options provide a FAR cheaper alternative to products being made in the U.S. There are a lot of reasons for this, from the costs of space to the cost of labor to the need for natural resources not found here (and many more).
So what are we to do? For many things, there is not an American option to buy. But even if we do increase manufacturing and bring those jobs and factories back (and let's pretend that's entirely viable), the cost of goods will skyrocket. The jobs that would be restored should help improve the overall economy (and tax intake for governments). But would they offset the cost to the consumer? And would there be a willingness to pay the price increase for buying American if there is competition for items that are produced overseas far more cheaply? And what would the reaction be if there was no option provided and we HAD to buy American?
Given that wages are only JUST starting to recover and grow after the Recession in 2008, would the improvement in the economy we'd see be enough to boost wages to offset these costs?
Globalization is hard.
I'm using the States as an example because it's the economy I know best, but I imagine you could pretty much ask the same questions of a post-EU Britain.0 -
Its the same the world over. Cost is the deciding factor anywhere you go.
I like to buy British produce whenever I can but not everyone is can afford to do the same and probably most couldn't give toss where a lemon came from.
As for cars, is made in the UK that counts or ownership of the company that means buying British?
If its made that counts I'd have and Indian car made in Halewood over any BMW or a car made in Woking by a Bahrain controlled company over any sports car made Volkswagen or any of their subsidiaries.
We make some really good stuff in this country, some of it a bit niche but people are quite quick to think we cant make quality, we can and do.0 -
Seasonal produce or at least what used to be seasonal to the uk is now available all year round. I can't see consumers allowing the free availability of produce sliding back to how it used to be.
We don't actually manufacture that much here anymore anyway. There's hardly anything that can't be produced cheaper or better elsewhere on the planet.
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Cheaper yes - not better!1
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In terms of agricultural produce, the genie is out if the bottle - we in the First World nations have become used to having what produce we want, when we want it, often at much lower prices than it could be produced at home.
It is difficult, even where you want to, to identify "local" produce, except where clearly out of season - because, even where food labelling is clear, the country of origin is not always obvious (often, the last country in a production and packaging chain will be flagged on the front of the packet in a supermarket) - as far as I can make out, all the Asda cooked chicken products come from animals farmed and processed in Thailand.
For fruit and vegetables, although more expensive, independent greengrocers are generally a better bet, if for no other reason than you will see the boxes containing them (emblazoned with country of origin) when picking your selection.
For people to buy local, we have to return to notions of seasonal and limited availability (though, possibly thankfully, not pickling and salting, because of refrigeration). But we'd also have to learn to cook for ourselves again, avoiding ready meals, prepared foods, etc.
Even things as basic as the type of potato you eat would have to be reassessed. We'd probably never be able to shop for food in M&S again, for reasons other than (in my case) being too cheap.
As for @SDAddick's California, I'm not sure that agriculture is doing so well there these days. Water is getting scarcer and far too many of the cash crops require abundant supplies.3 -
That's because we were told explicitly to buy British 'I'm backing Britain' - following Wilson's devaluation.MuttleyCAFC said:In the 70s people bough British cars and British TVs etc... and them being British was a selling point.
They were shit though!3 -
It was all shit though. Crap was made throughout the world.bobmunro said:
That's because we were told explicitly to buy British 'I'm backing Britain' - following Wilson's devaluation.MuttleyCAFC said:In the 70s people bough British cars and British TVs etc... and them being British was a selling point.
They were shit though!1 -
I am not sure that is true in Germany or especially France, when it comes to fresh food. Anyone who has been on holiday to France knows that the small shops selling fruit and veg, not to mention bakers and butchers, still flourish, yet that is the country that pioneered the hypermarket. And it seems like every medium size town has a market full of fresh goodies to die for.charltonkeston said:Its the same the world over. Cost is the deciding factor anywhere you go.
I like to buy British produce whenever I can but not everyone is can afford to do the same and probably most couldn't give toss where a lemon came from.
As for cars, is made in the UK that counts or ownership of the company that means buying British?
If its made that counts I'd have and Indian car made in Halewood over any BMW or a car made in Woking by a Bahrain controlled company over any sports car made Volkswagen or any of their subsidiaries.
We make some really good stuff in this country, some of it a bit niche but people are quite quick to think we cant make quality, we can and do.
Anyway this thread has reminded me to kick those muppets at Creek, manufacturer of two buggy pieces of my hi-fi set up. Supposedly a British icon name, their customer service is a joke. Their local authorised dealer here has given up on them and was trying to persuade me to do the same and buy some American amp.
On the other hand, if you are interested in English sparkling wines, here is a small business that does understand the meaning of customer service. Highly recommended. Even if the odd bottle will cost less at Waitrose.
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That is rubbish. We are the 11th largest manufacturing country in the world. We make huge quantities of all types of stuff. More statistics than you can shake a stick at here. themanufacturer.com/uk-manufacturing-statistics/ShootersHillGuru said:Seasonal produce or at least what used to be seasonal to the uk is now available all year round. I can't see consumers allowing the free availability of produce sliding back to how it used to be.
We don't actually manufacture that much here anymore anyway. There's hardly anything that can't be produced cheaper or better elsewhere on the planet.
(Who'd have guessed that there were 300,000+ jobs in both furniture manufacturing and textiles for example?)
Edited to add: As an amateur investor I've a fondnes for shares in UK manufacturing companies and in the main they have served me well. Whether that's shares in Ricardo - a superb business most will never have heard of - but barely a F1 team or a Le Mans 24hr car would get to the grid without them - or businesses like IMI and Melrose.1 -
Really ? What do we currently make here that's the best on offer ? I know about butter shortbread and Scotch whisky ;0)MuttleyCAFC said:Cheaper yes - not better!
Seriously though. I doubt the list is overly long.
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Top end cars for startersShootersHillGuru said:
Really ? What do we currently make here that's the best on offer ? I know about butter shortbread and Scotch whisky ;0)MuttleyCAFC said:Cheaper yes - not better!
Seriously though. I doubt the list is overly long.
Quality shoes
Quality clothing
Other countries currency
Rolls Royce engines
Weapons
Aero & space products
Movies
Tv programmes
Music
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Confectionary
Sandwiches
Cups of tea
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Biscuits
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Proper mustard
Cheddar cheese
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