The General Election - June 8th 2017
Comments
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I think the big issue for some here is why should the rich have to pay for the poor?
I think the amounts in question are not going to cause a huge hole in anyone's lifestyles except those that are tax evading. Cooperations would be hit a lot harder than individuals and if said individuals are already paying all their taxes and haven't got millions hidden away abroad then they would have nothing to fear. However, the amounts on a whole that can be sourced from the richest in society would make a huge difference at the other end of the scale, public services are strained, NHS is strained, schools are facing cuts greater than ever before, disabled people services are being axed, children's services are being cut in half, elderly care is now also in jeopardy. The austerity needs to stop, this millionaires tax would go so far in assuring that it does.
Anyone that has seen first hand the inside of a food bank and had to watch a hardworking man sob his heart out because he needed help to feed his family and feels that he has failed them, would understand how much this austerity has hit the most vulnerable people in society. 60% of people that used our local food bank last tax year were in employment, these are not scroungers they are just not earning a proper living wage and not getting enough to cover everything they need.
I am not saying that it's the rich folks fault that people are living in poverty I am saying that the social divide has become so great that the two worlds are miles apart, the richest in society can spend more money in an hour on things they don't even need than what average people earn in a whole year. A few thousands of pounds out of their "pocket money" won't hurt them but could potentially save others.6 -
Sounds like a similar day to a teacher, who spends most evenings marking and planning and not seeing own children.DamoNorthStand said:
My job isn't 9-5 for starters.SELR_addicks said:I think the problem is most of the top 5% don't realise how much society has helped them to reach the level that they have.
Sure they 'worked hard', but no harder than anyone else in a decent 9-5 job. Anyone that truly believes you can transform yourself out of poverty into earning £70,000+ just from hard work is living in a dream world.
The education, job opportunities, healthcare, transport services, housing all available to them for far cheaper than it is in today's world.
Why shouldn't they pay a little extra back to the country that has helped them enjoy the comforts that they do? So that the next generation maybe can follow in their footsteps.
I start at about 7:30 in the morning and usually get home at 10 or 11. So I don't see my kids 5 days a week.
There are plenty of other people who are less fortunate than me - in terms of earnings and hours.
But my sacrifice is seeing my kids less than a friend of mine who is in shared custody of his children after splitting from his wife.
And in terms of pay a little extra back. We have had this discussion. We already have a fair and proportionate tax system. The top 5pc already pay a lot more.9 -
My sister in law is a secondary school teacher. We have often had conversations where she has described my hours as "utterly ridiculous".CharltonMadrid said:
Sounds like a similar day to a teacher, who spends most evenings marking and planning and not seeing own children.DamoNorthStand said:
My job isn't 9-5 for starters.SELR_addicks said:I think the problem is most of the top 5% don't realise how much society has helped them to reach the level that they have.
Sure they 'worked hard', but no harder than anyone else in a decent 9-5 job. Anyone that truly believes you can transform yourself out of poverty into earning £70,000+ just from hard work is living in a dream world.
The education, job opportunities, healthcare, transport services, housing all available to them for far cheaper than it is in today's world.
Why shouldn't they pay a little extra back to the country that has helped them enjoy the comforts that they do? So that the next generation maybe can follow in their footsteps.
I start at about 7:30 in the morning and usually get home at 10 or 11. So I don't see my kids 5 days a week.
There are plenty of other people who are less fortunate than me - in terms of earnings and hours.
But my sacrifice is seeing my kids less than a friend of mine who is in shared custody of his children after splitting from his wife.
And in terms of pay a little extra back. We have had this discussion. We already have a fair and proportionate tax system. The top 5pc already pay a lot more.
She has told me that he hours come in fits and spurts. When they at bad they are bad - but then again she has about 5 times more holiday than me per year which she realises she is so lucky to get.
It's horrible when I see my Facebook feed full of people in the summer home doing a BBQ and having a beer at seven a clock at night.
Personally I would have more sympathy with the nurses and doctors of this world working crazy long shifts than teachers who also have an incredible pension waiting at the end of the day paid for by the taxpayer (admittedly for educating our children and the next generation).0 -
I think Damo had a point, especially with the tone of that phrase, and I think it has been answered admirably. Now given that the only point that you had issue with was that one phrase Damo, I take it you agree with the rest, and as such will not be voting for the Conservatives?
I would also like to add something I don't think has been addressed in points made since. You cite the long hours you work, which is your choice, and in your field is richly rewarded. There are many out there who have to work similar hours, who make all the familial sacrifices you do, but do not have your knowledge and life skills, and earn nowhere near what you do.
You are fortunate to have been blessed with that skill set, mind set and drive - the idea we regularly see put forward that "anyone can do it" is disrespectful to both those that cannot, and indeed yourself and those like you. If any of us could do anything "if we put our mind to it" as I often hear/see, why are we not all Michelin starred chefs, Premier league footballers, stadium filling rock stars or best selling novelists? I for one would be grateful to have been blessed with the talent to do well and make money, and wouldn't begrudge paying a bit more into society were I earning the kind of money we are talking about.
And of course some people make it to the top because they are utter, utter c**ts who would sh*t on anyone to make a pound (not suggesting that's you for one moment Damo!).8 -
Incredible? Really? Bankers bonus's are incredible Damo, teacher's pensions are "good", let's be fair.DamoNorthStand said:
My sister in law is a secondary school teacher. We have often had conversations where she has described my hours as "utterly ridiculous".CharltonMadrid said:
Sounds like a similar day to a teacher, who spends most evenings marking and planning and not seeing own children.DamoNorthStand said:
My job isn't 9-5 for starters.SELR_addicks said:I think the problem is most of the top 5% don't realise how much society has helped them to reach the level that they have.
Sure they 'worked hard', but no harder than anyone else in a decent 9-5 job. Anyone that truly believes you can transform yourself out of poverty into earning £70,000+ just from hard work is living in a dream world.
The education, job opportunities, healthcare, transport services, housing all available to them for far cheaper than it is in today's world.
Why shouldn't they pay a little extra back to the country that has helped them enjoy the comforts that they do? So that the next generation maybe can follow in their footsteps.
I start at about 7:30 in the morning and usually get home at 10 or 11. So I don't see my kids 5 days a week.
There are plenty of other people who are less fortunate than me - in terms of earnings and hours.
But my sacrifice is seeing my kids less than a friend of mine who is in shared custody of his children after splitting from his wife.
And in terms of pay a little extra back. We have had this discussion. We already have a fair and proportionate tax system. The top 5pc already pay a lot more.
She has told me that he hours come in fits and spurts. When they at bad they are bad - but then again she has about 5 times more holiday than me per year which she realises she is so lucky to get.
It's horrible when I see my Facebook feed full of people in the summer home doing a BBQ and having a beer at seven a clock at night.
Personally I would have more sympathy with the nurses and doctors of this world working crazy long shifts than teachers who also have an incredible pension waiting at the end of the day paid for by the taxpayer (admittedly for educating our children and the next generation).6 -
I think in my mind people earning millions of pounds a year and people earning 120k per year are in completely different boats and shouldn't be put under the same banner.Algarveaddick said:I think Damo had a point, especially with the tone of that phrase, and I think it has been answered admirably. Now given that the only point that you had issue with was that one phrase Damo, I take it you agree with the rest, and as such will not be voting for the Conservatives?
I would also like to add something I don't think has been addressed in points made since. You cite the long hours you work, which is your choice, and in your field is richly rewarded. There are many out there who have to work similar hours, who make all the familial sacrifices you do, but do not have your knowledge and life skills, and earn nowhere near what you do.
You are fortunate to have been blessed with that skill set, mind set and drive - the idea we regularly see put forward that "anyone can do it" is disrespectful to both those that cannot, and indeed yourself and those like you. If any of us could do anything "if we put our mind to it" as I often hear/see, why are we not all Michelin starred chefs, Premier league footballers, stadium filling rock stars or best selling novelists? I for one would be grateful to have been blessed with the talent to do well and make money, and wouldn't begrudge paying a bit more into society were I earning the kind of money we are talking about.
And of course some people make it to the top because they are utter, utter c**ts who would sh*t on anyone to make a pound (not suggesting that's you for one moment Damo!).
My issue with that quote was that the top 5pc were highlighted alongside corporations etc. Which is totally wrong.5 -
It is clear that the biggest financial burden faced by most is the cost of their housing. Following the 2008 crash, the housing market should have naturally corrected itself, much as it did at the beginning of the 1990s.
However, this time round, there were too many vested interests in keeping property prices high. Consequently, the corrective of housing prices did not happen.
Post 2010, the government has been trying to reduce the housing benefit bill without doing anything to tackle the cost of housing. This has resulted in policies which have just reduced the amount of benefits available to poorer households, thus rendering them even poorer, and potentially homeless.
People will recall the squawking that occurred during the Brexit campaign when the leavers suggested that house prices would go down if we remained. That no doubt helped to boost the leave vote - but the reality is, house prices do need to come down.
The chronic unaffordability of housing across all tenures is unsustainable. And none of this is helped by the wealthy who own many properties- they don't want to see a drop in the value of their property portfolio.They have a vested interest in property continuing to be unaffordable for many.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-399741778 -
Last time I looked it up the four most stressful occupations were Dentist, Construction Worker, Airline Pilot and......Teacher.
The thing about Teaching is that nearly everybody has been to school so they think they are an expert regarding the job.
Teaching is one of the few jobs where you can't even go to the bog when you need to, let alone everything else. My brother is about to pack up being a Maths teacher, when an OFSTED inspector does a 20 minute lesson observation in order to pass judgement there are over 100 specific targets to meet in that time that then judge him as either outstanding, good, satisfactory or requiring improvement.
There are other jobs that are tough too, the backbreaking physical work of fruit and veg picking, or those who do a shift in a care home from 7am to 9.45pm.
I don't know if those in high finance and business have it as tough, maybe they can compare notes as they network on an awayday in a private box one Thursday at Ascot races.
I am not talking the politics of envy and jealousy here, but observing the inequalities of society which would be greatly helped by everybody having some reasonable place to live, food to eat and some decent support when faced with the challenges of life.13 -
Don't disagree with that Damo.DamoNorthStand said:
I think in my mind people earning millions of pounds a year and people earning 120k per year are in completely different boats and shouldn't be put under the same banner.Algarveaddick said:I think Damo had a point, especially with the tone of that phrase, and I think it has been answered admirably. Now given that the only point that you had issue with was that one phrase Damo, I take it you agree with the rest, and as such will not be voting for the Conservatives?
I would also like to add something I don't think has been addressed in points made since. You cite the long hours you work, which is your choice, and in your field is richly rewarded. There are many out there who have to work similar hours, who make all the familial sacrifices you do, but do not have your knowledge and life skills, and earn nowhere near what you do.
You are fortunate to have been blessed with that skill set, mind set and drive - the idea we regularly see put forward that "anyone can do it" is disrespectful to both those that cannot, and indeed yourself and those like you. If any of us could do anything "if we put our mind to it" as I often hear/see, why are we not all Michelin starred chefs, Premier league footballers, stadium filling rock stars or best selling novelists? I for one would be grateful to have been blessed with the talent to do well and make money, and wouldn't begrudge paying a bit more into society were I earning the kind of money we are talking about.
And of course some people make it to the top because they are utter, utter c**ts who would sh*t on anyone to make a pound (not suggesting that's you for one moment Damo!).
My issue with that quote was that the top 5pc were highlighted alongside corporations etc. Which is totally wrong.0 -
Anyone even hinting that state school teachers have it easy can be completely disregarded11
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Do you also acknowledge that someone on £11k a year feels the same way about someone earning £100k+? Can you not understand why someone reliant on benefits or charity just to make ends meet might look at yourself and question why you are not contributing even a little more in tax yet that would still allow you to have much more comfortable lifestyle than theirs?DamoNorthStand said:
I think in my mind people earning millions of pounds a year and people earning 120k per year are in completely different boats and shouldn't be put under the same banner.Algarveaddick said:I think Damo had a point, especially with the tone of that phrase, and I think it has been answered admirably. Now given that the only point that you had issue with was that one phrase Damo, I take it you agree with the rest, and as such will not be voting for the Conservatives?
I would also like to add something I don't think has been addressed in points made since. You cite the long hours you work, which is your choice, and in your field is richly rewarded. There are many out there who have to work similar hours, who make all the familial sacrifices you do, but do not have your knowledge and life skills, and earn nowhere near what you do.
You are fortunate to have been blessed with that skill set, mind set and drive - the idea we regularly see put forward that "anyone can do it" is disrespectful to both those that cannot, and indeed yourself and those like you. If any of us could do anything "if we put our mind to it" as I often hear/see, why are we not all Michelin starred chefs, Premier league footballers, stadium filling rock stars or best selling novelists? I for one would be grateful to have been blessed with the talent to do well and make money, and wouldn't begrudge paying a bit more into society were I earning the kind of money we are talking about.
And of course some people make it to the top because they are utter, utter c**ts who would sh*t on anyone to make a pound (not suggesting that's you for one moment Damo!).
My issue with that quote was that the top 5pc were highlighted alongside corporations etc. Which is totally wrong.
No one's questioning your capacity to earn what you do, your hard work or your worth to your employer btw.3 -
You what? They roll up at 9am, bugger off at 3pm and all they have to do is watch over some sweet kiddies. They have 26 weeks holiday a year, get paid £40,000 per annum and retire at 35 on double those wagesLeuth said:Anyone even hinting that state school teachers have it easy can be completely disregarded
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Certainly agree with Damo up to a point. I know a couple of people who run there own businesses and the taxes they have to pay can be crippling for a small business. (My wife runs one, but as it is in Spain and the system is probably different, I'll avoid that one). However, the point I took from the original post was that recent Conservative policies, especially the Dementia Tax and the removal of free meals in schools are all aimed at the less well off. But probably thanks to the blanket assault from the right wing media, the election is still being fought where possibel on whether Corbyn had links with the IRA, and is he really just a clown. This despite the amusing Boris Johnson being a possible upper echelon cabinet minister in the future. Corbyn's speeches do not bear any resemblance to what is being written about him, but there is still a sizeable group who seem keen to vote for a party who openly admit they will make them poorer, than the one who want to help them. I'm not convinced by the calculations of how Labour will pay for their election promises, but then again, the Tories have admisitered years of austerity and the national debt has ballooned.
I think it's fairly normal to question politicians about how they plan to implement their policies, and it's a shame the Brexit vote didn't have a bit more realism about the posible outcomes, but sadly, no one really knew exactly what the outcomes would be then. But a lot of what is said about Corbyn is just media myth, and the conservatives get a very light ride in comparison.5 -
DamoNorthStand said:
But seriously. The quote said "Good fuck them it's long overdue".
Why is it long overdue to fuck the top 5pc of earners?
Nobody has answered that.
They haven't done anything other than earn more than 95pc of the country.
They haven't ever been blamed for causing an economic crisis like people tried to blame the bankers
They haven't engaged in animal cruelty
They haven't really done anything.
Why is it acceptable to just say fuck someone based on what they earn?
It's not okay.
Perhaps just as a change to "fucking" the bottom 5%, the sick and disabled who have born the brunt of the highly successful austerity measures.
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You what? They roll up at 9am, bugger off at 3pm and all they have to do is watch over some sweet kiddies. They have 26 weeks holiday a year, get paid £40,000 per annum and retire at 35 on double those wages
It's all about organisation then the holidays can be stress free1 -
Precisely, Corbyn is really getting a raw deal from the media and it is entirely conservative led. They are afraid of him. Also regarding him being an IRA sympathest goes it's ridiculous, he openly condemned violence on both sides, many say he is too passive and too peace loving and then the next day are calling him a terrorist, it seems the right wing media are continually contradicting themselves. Corbyn is our best hope and voting labour is probably our only chance to get a priminister like him that truly cares about the people, he lives in a normal house, he takes buses to work, he donates all of his time to causes he cares about and is compassionate about Britain and about people we need him.ken_shabby said:Certainly agree with Damo up to a point. I know a couple of people who run there own businesses and the taxes they have to pay can be crippling for a small business. (My wife runs one, but as it is in Spain and the system is probably different, I'll avoid that one). However, the point I took from the original post was that recent Conservative policies, especially the Dementia Tax and the removal of free meals in schools are all aimed at the less well off. But probably thanks to the blanket assault from the right wing media, the election is still being fought where possibel on whether Corbyn had links with the IRA, and is he really just a clown. This despite the amusing Boris Johnson being a possible upper echelon cabinet minister in the future. Corbyn's speeches do not bear any resemblance to what is being written about him, but there is still a sizeable group who seem keen to vote for a party who openly admit they will make them poorer, than the one who want to help them. I'm not convinced by the calculations of how Labour will pay for their election promises, but then again, the Tories have admisitered years of austerity and the national debt has ballooned.
I think it's fairly normal to question politicians about how they plan to implement their policies, and it's a shame the Brexit vote didn't have a bit more realism about the posible outcomes, but sadly, no one really knew exactly what the outcomes would be then. But a lot of what is said about Corbyn is just media myth, and the conservatives get a very light ride in comparison.3 -
I do have to say though that being Prime Minister of the U.K. requires being a Statesman. No question about that. I don't believe Corbyn has ALL the skills needed to be PM.sadiejane1981 said:
Precisely, Corbyn is really getting a raw deal from the media and it is entirely conservative led. They are afraid of him. Also regarding him being an IRA sympathest goes it's ridiculous, he openly condemned violence on both sides, many say he is too passive and too peace loving and then the next day are calling him a terrorist, it seems the right wing media are continually contradicting themselves. Corbyn is our best hope and voting labour is probably our only chance to get a priminister like him that truly cares about the people, he lives in a normal house, he takes buses to work, he donates all of his time to causes he cares about and is compassionate about Britain and about people we need him.ken_shabby said:Certainly agree with Damo up to a point. I know a couple of people who run there own businesses and the taxes they have to pay can be crippling for a small business. (My wife runs one, but as it is in Spain and the system is probably different, I'll avoid that one). However, the point I took from the original post was that recent Conservative policies, especially the Dementia Tax and the removal of free meals in schools are all aimed at the less well off. But probably thanks to the blanket assault from the right wing media, the election is still being fought where possibel on whether Corbyn had links with the IRA, and is he really just a clown. This despite the amusing Boris Johnson being a possible upper echelon cabinet minister in the future. Corbyn's speeches do not bear any resemblance to what is being written about him, but there is still a sizeable group who seem keen to vote for a party who openly admit they will make them poorer, than the one who want to help them. I'm not convinced by the calculations of how Labour will pay for their election promises, but then again, the Tories have admisitered years of austerity and the national debt has ballooned.
I think it's fairly normal to question politicians about how they plan to implement their policies, and it's a shame the Brexit vote didn't have a bit more realism about the posible outcomes, but sadly, no one really knew exactly what the outcomes would be then. But a lot of what is said about Corbyn is just media myth, and the conservatives get a very light ride in comparison.
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He is intelligent and astute and speaks honestly and openly without fear. He is clever enough to bring forward a cabinet full of suitablitity. He is certainly more suitable than May and Farron.ShootersHillGuru said:
I do have to say though that being Prime Minister of the U.K. requires being a Statesman. No question about that. I don't believe Corbyn has ALL the skills needed to be PM.sadiejane1981 said:
Precisely, Corbyn is really getting a raw deal from the media and it is entirely conservative led. They are afraid of him. Also regarding him being an IRA sympathest goes it's ridiculous, he openly condemned violence on both sides, many say he is too passive and too peace loving and then the next day are calling him a terrorist, it seems the right wing media are continually contradicting themselves. Corbyn is our best hope and voting labour is probably our only chance to get a priminister like him that truly cares about the people, he lives in a normal house, he takes buses to work, he donates all of his time to causes he cares about and is compassionate about Britain and about people we need him.ken_shabby said:Certainly agree with Damo up to a point. I know a couple of people who run there own businesses and the taxes they have to pay can be crippling for a small business. (My wife runs one, but as it is in Spain and the system is probably different, I'll avoid that one). However, the point I took from the original post was that recent Conservative policies, especially the Dementia Tax and the removal of free meals in schools are all aimed at the less well off. But probably thanks to the blanket assault from the right wing media, the election is still being fought where possibel on whether Corbyn had links with the IRA, and is he really just a clown. This despite the amusing Boris Johnson being a possible upper echelon cabinet minister in the future. Corbyn's speeches do not bear any resemblance to what is being written about him, but there is still a sizeable group who seem keen to vote for a party who openly admit they will make them poorer, than the one who want to help them. I'm not convinced by the calculations of how Labour will pay for their election promises, but then again, the Tories have admisitered years of austerity and the national debt has ballooned.
I think it's fairly normal to question politicians about how they plan to implement their policies, and it's a shame the Brexit vote didn't have a bit more realism about the posible outcomes, but sadly, no one really knew exactly what the outcomes would be then. But a lot of what is said about Corbyn is just media myth, and the conservatives get a very light ride in comparison.5 -
When Corbyn was elected leader the competition was not seen as different enough from Miliband.
Personally I think Yvette Cooper might have been good, but she was associated with failure at the time of the leadership election.
The interesting thing regarding May v Corbyn is that it is possible to tell the difference between the two.2 -
Obviously for this country to move forward and become a better place money needs to be generated from somewhere.
Yes I agree with taxing the high earners but in a pyramid style tax bracket system.
What I can't agree with is the total animosity by some towards higher earners as a whole. I hate generalisation in all forms. Each person has had their own story their own walk in life and they are where they are for a thousand different reasons.
It works both ways, you and I know that not all conservative voters are Eton snobs, not all labour voters are benefit fraudsters and not all ukip voters are racist.
By all means vote for who you want but at least understand everyone will have their own perspectives are nobody is every 100% right.
A family member was struggling to pay his mortgage 20 years ago, in and out of jobs things not looking good.
He joined a bank at base level, worked his way up and is now reaping the rewards as a high earning scumbag banker in the city who enjoys cooperate days at Ascot and work lunches in gouchos. I have absolute admiration for the way he turned things around and believe he should enjoy his hard earned lifestyle.3 - Sponsored links:
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The point being that this statement would also be not on.ShootersHillGuru said:DamoNorthStand said:But seriously. The quote said "Good fuck them it's long overdue".
Why is it long overdue to fuck the top 5pc of earners?
Nobody has answered that.
They haven't done anything other than earn more than 95pc of the country.
They haven't ever been blamed for causing an economic crisis like people tried to blame the bankers
They haven't engaged in animal cruelty
They haven't really done anything.
Why is it acceptable to just say fuck someone based on what they earn?
It's not okay.
Perhaps just as a change to "fucking" the bottom 5%, the sick and disabled who have born the brunt of the highly successful austerity measures.
It is a fine balance when times get tougher off the back of a financial crisis. There will always be more well off and less well of people in society. It's going to be that way until the end of time.
Is the wealth gap staying the same but the bottom 10 or 15pc notice small drops in income a lot more? Because I was under the impression from this board that tax rates for lower earners haven't been raised hugely under this Tory government compared to the years of labour rule before.1 -
Well done your relative for making the most of their opportunity but at what point are we all going to start moving forward? 7 years of austerity policies have got us where? Failing public services across the board, pathetic growth levels, rising national and household debts, stagnant wages, an explosion of exploitative employment contracts, rising homelessness and food poverty, increasing retirement ages, etc.agim said:Obviously for this country to move forward and become a better place money needs to be generated from somewhere.
Yes I agree with taxing the high earners but in a pyramid style tax bracket system.
What I can't agree with is the total animosity by some towards higher earners as a whole. I hate generalisation in all forms. Each person has had their own story their own walk in life and they are where they are for a thousand different reasons.
It works both ways, you and I know that not all conservative voters are Eton snobs, not all labour voters are benefit fraudsters and not all ukip voters are racist.
By all means vote for who you want but at least understand everyone will have their own perspectives are nobody is every 100% right.
A family member was struggling to pay his mortgage 20 years ago, in and out of jobs things not looking good.
He joined a bank at base level, worked his way up and is now reaping the rewards as a high earning scumbag banker in the city who enjoys cooperate days at Ascot and work lunches in gouchos. I have absolute admiration for the way he turned things around and believe he should enjoy his hard earned lifestyle.
The Tories are telling us these policies will continue. At what point does society decide enough's enough and we need a different direction?6 -
One aspect of the debate is to suggest that indeed everybody works hard.
However the disparity of reward for hard working people is a bit of an issue.
I once worked on a building site where there was this strong Danish hod carrier. I have never seen anything like it, the sweat would drench him as he raced to keep the bricklayers supplied, he would put in an astonishing days work, but his pay was very modest compared to others like the site foreman, who also worked hard with his maps and drawings and overview and such like.
The hod carrier and foreman were interdependent it seemed to me.1 -
Money is being generated. But it's not going anywhere but into the back pockets of the richest people (we're talking 0.1% or less here). They don't reinvest tax cuts into their people, they don't create more jobs than is completely necessary. The extra money stays at the top.
If they won't reinvest that extra money (they won't) then the government should be stepping in and reversing the tax cuts to invest where the people at the top won't.3 -
One aspiration for some wealth chasers is that they, and all their family members, ought to be able to live on the interest from the interest for the foreseeable future.
With that mindset enough is never going to be enough.0 -
This is something I've heard a lot since he become leader of the Labour Party. In the early days I could see it too; there was the National Anthem business, the fact that he looked like a scruffy geography teacher (apologies to all the unscruffy geography teachers out there), and stuff that didn't go to plan like the ill-advised Virgin Trains critique. Maybe I've become blind to this sort of stuff or maybe the press is saving all the dirt for election week, but the early gaffes don't seem to be happening any more. I think he's learned from them.ShootersHillGuru said:
I do have to say though that being Prime Minister of the U.K. requires being a Statesman. No question about that. I don't believe Corbyn has ALL the skills needed to be PM.sadiejane1981 said:
Precisely, Corbyn is really getting a raw deal from the media and it is entirely conservative led. They are afraid of him. Also regarding him being an IRA sympathest goes it's ridiculous, he openly condemned violence on both sides, many say he is too passive and too peace loving and then the next day are calling him a terrorist, it seems the right wing media are continually contradicting themselves. Corbyn is our best hope and voting labour is probably our only chance to get a priminister like him that truly cares about the people, he lives in a normal house, he takes buses to work, he donates all of his time to causes he cares about and is compassionate about Britain and about people we need him.ken_shabby said:Certainly agree with Damo up to a point. I know a couple of people who run there own businesses and the taxes they have to pay can be crippling for a small business. (My wife runs one, but as it is in Spain and the system is probably different, I'll avoid that one). However, the point I took from the original post was that recent Conservative policies, especially the Dementia Tax and the removal of free meals in schools are all aimed at the less well off. But probably thanks to the blanket assault from the right wing media, the election is still being fought where possibel on whether Corbyn had links with the IRA, and is he really just a clown. This despite the amusing Boris Johnson being a possible upper echelon cabinet minister in the future. Corbyn's speeches do not bear any resemblance to what is being written about him, but there is still a sizeable group who seem keen to vote for a party who openly admit they will make them poorer, than the one who want to help them. I'm not convinced by the calculations of how Labour will pay for their election promises, but then again, the Tories have admisitered years of austerity and the national debt has ballooned.
I think it's fairly normal to question politicians about how they plan to implement their policies, and it's a shame the Brexit vote didn't have a bit more realism about the posible outcomes, but sadly, no one really knew exactly what the outcomes would be then. But a lot of what is said about Corbyn is just media myth, and the conservatives get a very light ride in comparison.
I watched him get a grilling by Andrew Neil the other day and I have to say he handled it very well. Certainly better that I think May or Farron would have done. He stuck to his point, explained and reiterated as necessary and never let Neil's dogged style perturb him. I'd say he was very Statesmanlike. Let's compare that to May. She never answers questions straight. A common political trait I know, and one that can be said of practically all politicians to a point. But she seems to take it to a new level, seemingly never answering a direct question even in sympathetic interviews. The crunch for me though is when an interviewer tries to press a point. She gets visibly angry and raises her voice and comes across as someone who is used to getting her own way and cannot handle it when people dare to challenge her. This, to me, is the very epitome of of unstatesmanlike. Unless the statesman you have in mind is some tinpot dictator. If we were to try and compare Corbyn to Tim Farron, we'd probably end up asking Tim who? The invisible wet fish doesn't have the gravitas to register on the same scale. I expect he'll learn in time, but whatever it is he doesn't have it now.
On the policy front, Corbyn has a popular and well thought out manifesto and he's stuck with that. In contrast both the others have made significant u-turns. Farron, because his religious views are clearly at odds with what most people consider to be acceptable in this day and age. May in far more spectacular fashion, because she and/or her advisors never bothered to consult party activists before launching a particularly pernicious and unpopular policy. She compounded matters then by denying it was a u-turn, even though it was obvious to the world and his wife that it was.
I'd be really interested to know SHG why you think Corbyn doesn't have all the skills, because to me it looks like he's better qualified for the job than the candidates of the other leading parties and by no small margin.9 -
I agree. I'm not voting toryBournemouth Addick said:
Well done your relative for making the most of their opportunity but at what point are we all going to start moving forward? 7 years of austerity policies have got us where? Failing public services across the board, pathetic growth levels, rising national and household debts, stagnant wages, an explosion of exploitative employment contracts, rising homelessness and food poverty, increasing retirement ages, etc.agim said:Obviously for this country to move forward and become a better place money needs to be generated from somewhere.
Yes I agree with taxing the high earners but in a pyramid style tax bracket system.
What I can't agree with is the total animosity by some towards higher earners as a whole. I hate generalisation in all forms. Each person has had their own story their own walk in life and they are where they are for a thousand different reasons.
It works both ways, you and I know that not all conservative voters are Eton snobs, not all labour voters are benefit fraudsters and not all ukip voters are racist.
By all means vote for who you want but at least understand everyone will have their own perspectives are nobody is every 100% right.
A family member was struggling to pay his mortgage 20 years ago, in and out of jobs things not looking good.
He joined a bank at base level, worked his way up and is now reaping the rewards as a high earning scumbag banker in the city who enjoys cooperate days at Ascot and work lunches in gouchos. I have absolute admiration for the way he turned things around and believe he should enjoy his hard earned lifestyle.
The Tories are telling us these policies will continue. At what point does society decide enough's enough and we need a different direction?0 -
I have a vague impression the Jeremy Corbyn has not dug out individual opponents on a personal level, yet he has been attacked on a personal level continually, going back to that stuff from David (who?) Cameron about wearing a proper suit.5
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Is it right that all three main party leaders have never had a job outside of politics?
If true the, 'I don't see how any of them can relate to real people' arguments have been unusually missing.0 -
They're definitely interdependent but the foreman gets paid more for his numerous responsibilities. He ultimately takes responsibility for that job either making or loosing moneyseth plum said:One aspect of the debate is to suggest that indeed everybody works hard.
However the disparity of reward for hard working people is a bit of an issue.
I once worked on a building site where there was this strong Danish hod carrier. I have never seen anything like it, the sweat would drench him as he raced to keep the bricklayers supplied, he would put in an astonishing days work, but his pay was very modest compared to others like the site foreman, who also worked hard with his maps and drawings and overview and such like.
The hod carrier and foreman were interdependent it seemed to me.0
