One aspect of the debate is to suggest that indeed everybody works hard. However the disparity of reward for hard working people is a bit of an issue. I once worked on a building site where there was this strong Danish hod carrier. I have never seen anything like it, the sweat would drench him as he raced to keep the bricklayers supplied, he would put in an astonishing days work, but his pay was very modest compared to others like the site foreman, who also worked hard with his maps and drawings and overview and such like. The hod carrier and foreman were interdependent it seemed to me.
Certainly agree with Damo up to a point. I know a couple of people who run there own businesses and the taxes they have to pay can be crippling for a small business. (My wife runs one, but as it is in Spain and the system is probably different, I'll avoid that one). However, the point I took from the original post was that recent Conservative policies, especially the Dementia Tax and the removal of free meals in schools are all aimed at the less well off. But probably thanks to the blanket assault from the right wing media, the election is still being fought where possibel on whether Corbyn had links with the IRA, and is he really just a clown. This despite the amusing Boris Johnson being a possible upper echelon cabinet minister in the future. Corbyn's speeches do not bear any resemblance to what is being written about him, but there is still a sizeable group who seem keen to vote for a party who openly admit they will make them poorer, than the one who want to help them. I'm not convinced by the calculations of how Labour will pay for their election promises, but then again, the Tories have admisitered years of austerity and the national debt has ballooned. I think it's fairly normal to question politicians about how they plan to implement their policies, and it's a shame the Brexit vote didn't have a bit more realism about the posible outcomes, but sadly, no one really knew exactly what the outcomes would be then. But a lot of what is said about Corbyn is just media myth, and the conservatives get a very light ride in comparison.
Precisely, Corbyn is really getting a raw deal from the media and it is entirely conservative led. They are afraid of him. Also regarding him being an IRA sympathest goes it's ridiculous, he openly condemned violence on both sides, many say he is too passive and too peace loving and then the next day are calling him a terrorist, it seems the right wing media are continually contradicting themselves. Corbyn is our best hope and voting labour is probably our only chance to get a priminister like him that truly cares about the people, he lives in a normal house, he takes buses to work, he donates all of his time to causes he cares about and is compassionate about Britain and about people we need him.
I do have to say though that being Prime Minister of the U.K. requires being a Statesman. No question about that. I don't believe Corbyn has ALL the skills needed to be PM.
This is something I've heard a lot since he become leader of the Labour Party. In the early days I could see it too; there was the National Anthem business, the fact that he looked like a scruffy geography teacher (apologies to all the unscruffy geography teachers out there), and stuff that didn't go to plan like the ill-advised Virgin Trains critique. Maybe I've become blind to this sort of stuff or maybe the press is saving all the dirt for election week, but the early gaffes don't seem to be happening any more. I think he's learned from them.
I watched him get a grilling by Andrew Neil the other day and I have to say he handled it very well. Certainly better that I think May or Farron would have done. He stuck to his point, explained and reiterated as necessary and never let Neil's dogged style perturb him. I'd say he was very Statesmanlike. Let's compare that to May. She never answers questions straight. A common political trait I know, and one that can be said of practically all politicians to a point. But she seems to take it to a new level, seemingly never answering a direct question even in sympathetic interviews. The crunch for me though is when an interviewer tries to press a point. She gets visibly angry and raises her voice and comes across as someone who is used to getting her own way and cannot handle it when people dare to challenge her. This, to me, is the very epitome of of unstatesmanlike. Unless the statesman you have in mind is some tinpot dictator. If we were to try and compare Corbyn to Tim Farron, we'd probably end up asking Tim who? The invisible wet fish doesn't have the gravitas to register on the same scale. I expect he'll learn in time, but whatever it is he doesn't have it now.
On the policy front, Corbyn has a popular and well thought out manifesto and he's stuck with that. In contrast both the others have made significant u-turns. Farron, because his religious views are clearly at odds with what most people consider to be acceptable in this day and age. May in far more spectacular fashion, because she and/or her advisors never bothered to consult party activists before launching a particularly pernicious and unpopular policy. She compounded matters then by denying it was a u-turn, even though it was obvious to the world and his wife that it was.
I'd be really interested to know SHG why you think Corbyn doesn't have all the skills, because to me it looks like he's better qualified for the job than the candidates of the other leading parties and by no small margin.
Being Prime Minister to me at least requires (at least in theory) as being able to lead the country. The electorate having confidence that you are in control and represent the views of all of the country from the disabled to business interest. Being able to represent the nation on the world stage.
My real problem with Corbyn is not his policies but his leadership skills. He doesn't have the support of his own PLP. He has chosen a front bench that looks short on quality although I understand he can't get people to accept the posts anyway. He's a hypocrite which always attracts people's suspicion. Most importantly it would appear enough of the electorate have similar views to this for him to ultimately be a hinderence to a labour victory.
Actually, hypocrite is the last thing I would fire at Corbyn. He has gone for a fairly left wing program, knowing that the last time Labour got into power was with a PM fairly right of centre, and knowing the press were waiting with knive at the ready. He has gone for what he believes, rather than what would make for a sweet package for the election manifestó, and stuck with it. You could also argue he has not had to make any u turns unlike the Conservatives (he should probably consider doing so with Ms Abbott but taht is another story). I won't Paint him as a saint, but he does say what he believes, and doesn't pretend otherwise to win votes. Possibly politically naive but certainly not hypocritical.
Is it right that all three main party leaders have never had a job outside of politics? If true the, 'I don't see how any of them can relate to real people' arguments have been unusually missing.
Interesting question. They all seem to have some previous life experience. Not oodles of it, but something. Certainly better than in some recent elections.
Bennett: Was a journalist in Australia. Did four years voluntary work in Thailand. On moving to Britain resumed journalism and was deputy editor of Guardian Weekly.
Corbyn: Worked briefly for a local newspaper, did two years voluntary service overseas before becoming a union official.
Farron: Spent ten years working in Higher Education. It doesn't say what though, not sure if he was a lecturer, administrator or something else.
Hope: Backing singer "Howling Laud" for Screaming Lord Sutch. Ran a pub and guesthouse.
May: Worked for the Bank of England for six years then spent a further twelve as a 'financial consultant and senior advisor in International Affairs'.
Nuttall: Was a lecturer at Liverpool Hope University (doesn't appear to be for very long though, not sure if he did anything else)
Sturgeon: Four years as a solicitor.
Wood: Three years as a probation officer. Also worked as a lecturer.
Top research, Stig! On one of the debates this morning they said the main three had only worked in politics. Interesting reading, as you say, better histories than in other elections, I suspect. Hope gets my vote for people's leader!
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
I understand where you're coming from, but surely his role as a disaffected backbencher excuses his voting record, whereas as a leader he is supposed to, well, lead. It might be bullying but whips are bullies, that's the point. I don't think it is something to hold him back on.
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
I would like to know why I got flagged for basically being offended that a post was on here aimed at a group I find myself in - saying fuck them.
I say fuck off back and all of a sudden that's not all right.
The Labour bias on this forum is getting crazy
I didn't flag you and wouldn't for that - and you seem a good bloke and all - but as an accumulator of disproportionate wealth you have to expect a certain amount of impersonal rhetoric now and again. Hell, in my own line of work I have directly aligned myself with the super-wealthy and have certainly exploited my vast privilege, if not for inordinate money, then for comfortable money on relatively low working hours. Therefore I'm happy to be told that I'm a beneficiary of an inequal society and I'm happy to contribute in turn. And while you may rightly claim your life to be an incessant drag (in the service of accumulating inordinate funds), when you retire to the wilds aged 50 or so, won't you have achieved something that very few can, let alone will? What I'm saying is, it's nothing personal, but if Labour come into power you'll just have to swallow it and downgrade the next holiday to Dubai
I would like to know why I got flagged for basically being offended that a post was on here aimed at a group I find myself in - saying fuck them.
I say fuck off back and all of a sudden that's not all right.
The Labour bias on this forum is getting crazy
Flags removed. I can understand your frustration with it, particularly if you the last sentence. I read it in the context of the whole statement rather than the last sentence, but obviously it's open to interpretation.
For what it's worth I agree with the statement to a large extent but I want to try and keep this thread as impartial as possible.
I think the Labour (or rather, as I see it anti Tory bias) comes from the fact that Charlton fans are probably largely made up of what was your typical working class. The areas our fans are from have always been to me what I would consider honest, hard working, perhaps not that affluent. Probably has an impact on our politics.
I would like to know why I got flagged for basically being offended that a post was on here aimed at a group I find myself in - saying fuck them.
I say fuck off back and all of a sudden that's not all right.
The Labour bias on this forum is getting crazy
Just ignore them, lots of deluded Labour supporters on here recently.
I'm very much one for promoting vote for who you wish etc., but when any party's supporters lie and then hate on others based on these lies it really pisses me off. They all seem to think Labour winning would create some equality utopia, forgetting that the privatisation of the NHS began under their lovely Labour, that expenses scandels were also done by Labour MPs. I do admit that this desire for equality 'they' are always claiming they support ('they' being the MPs and party leaders), is more realistic under Corbyn, but we all know their MPs won't back him fully. All the planned spending they claim they'll achieve from higher taxes to the rich will drive rich business away, thus actually making us all poorer.
Before the flags role in for hating on Labour, I'm not a hardline supporter for any party and I vote for who's the best at the time (baffles me that so many people can live their lives voting for the same party all the time).
Top research, Stig! On one of the debates this morning they said the main three had only worked in politics. Interesting reading, as you say, better histories than in other elections, I suspect. Hope gets my vote for people's leader!
Thanks, but not really A-R-T-H-U-R. Just a quick trawl through Wiki and I even managed to get that wrong.
Bartley: Parliamentary researcher and Parliamentary assistant working for John Major. Then co-founded the Ekklesia think tank.
Lucas: She holds qualifications in journalism and worked as a press officer for Oxfam in 1989. Seems to have spent the time since then in various roles with The Green Party and Oxfam.
I think these two are the closest on the list to career politicians.
I am actually what would probably class as a relatively left leaning conservative.
Economically I am Tory and I would rather they handled Brexit discussions - but I am also very liberal in many ways. I was strongly pro Europe, I am massively anti racial discrimination (I am a quarter Japanese and wouldn't have been born if my grandmother hadn't migrated to the UK). I am probably not the Eton coat tails style Tory that people seem to have stereotyped on here .
I am actually what would probably class as a relatively left leaning conservative.
Economically I am Tory and I would rather they handled Brexit discussions - but I am also very liberal in many ways. I was strongly pro Europe, I am massively anti racial discrimination (I am a quarter Japanese and wouldn't have been born if my grandmother hadn't migrated to the UK). I am probably not the Eton coat tails style Tory that people seem to have stereotyped on here .
What do you think is the Conservatives' best policy?
I know what your work is. You shared it with me once, and I continue to be in touch with that sector, although I retired from front line employment in that field some 20 years ago.
At the time I left BMP DDB in 1993, I am almost certain I was in the top 5%. The point I want to make, which I would ask you t think about, is that if I could rollback time and resume the same job ( and I have researched this) my standard of living would be much worse. That is because in this time the salaries in that role have risen about 80%, however the value of my property - a modest 3 bedroom row house - has risen 600%. Of course you are much younger, but maybe you should ask yourself how come life has become so much less comfortable for people in London on your level of pay. It is not tax. I am almost certain that in 93 i would have been taxed at a higher rate than now. And yet, there are many more people in London able to buy the properties, pay the ludicrous prices in restaurants. Who are these people, and what taxes do they pay?
I think the mistake Labour has made is pitching too low at 80k, and not having explicit plans to go after the tax evading corporations or the super rich, especially people like Abramovic who is believed to be non resident, and yet seems to spend every other weekend in London at the least. Where is he resident, if not London?.
All that said, if I was back home now, I would gladly vote for a tax increase on the 2017 version of my salary if I thought it would go mainly towards funding the NHS and care, and the police and security upgrade that is clearly needed. If you don't believe me, I can assure you that I voted Labour - a higher tax Party - all the way through to 1992 included, despite having a profile that ought to have been Tory. That was true of most of my colleagues at BMP too. It was Labour's chosen ad agency, at least until The Valley Party came along :-)
I would like to know why I got flagged for basically being offended that a post was on here aimed at a group I find myself in - saying fuck them.
I say fuck off back and all of a sudden that's not all right.
The Labour bias on this forum is getting crazy
Just ignore them, lots of deluded Labour supporters on here recently.
I'm very much one for promoting vote for who you wish etc., but when any party's supporters lie and then hate on others based on these lies it really pisses me off. They all seem to think Labour winning would create some equality utopia, forgetting that the privatisation of the NHS began under their lovely Labour, that expenses scandels were also done by Labour MPs. I do admit that this desire for equality 'they' are always claiming they support ('they' being the MPs and party leaders), is more realistic under Corbyn, but we all know their MPs won't back him fully. All the planned spending they claim they'll achieve from higher taxes to the rich will drive rich business away, thus actually making us all poorer.
Before the flags role in for hating on Labour, I'm not a hardline supporter for any party and I vote for who's the best at the time (baffles me that so many people can live their lives voting for the same party all the time).
I don't see much lying and hating going on at all though. Most of what has been said against the existing government is supported by the facts. We have seen poor growth, increasing debt, the goal of budget surplus constantly pushed back, our public services downgraded, rising homelessness, etc. Those are facts not lies or bias.
I keep asking the same question but I'm genuinely interested in what Tory voters think has gone well in the last 7 years? The few that have answered that question on here seem to base their response exclusively on "trickle down" economics that by happy coincidence allows them to retain more of their personal income. To the best of my of my recollection not one poster has tried to claim our society is in a better place overall than it was in 2010, even if they personally have done well.
What about foreign policy, defence, the environment, workers rights, industrial relations, productivity, education, transport and all the many other issues that we elect our government to direct on our behalf? Where's the positives from the last 7 years?
If even collectively we are unable to even half adequately answer those questions without falling back on the "at least they're not Corbyn!" response then surely one should doubt why one would want to continue down that route. That's not bias that's common sense...
Jeremy Corbyn has said that terror attacks in Britain are our own fault,’ Prime Minister alleges. A blatant lie. Would you vote for a liar? Contrast to Corbyn who doesn't peddle lies against opponents, he doesn't even attack them. He doesn't attack the Tory party. He addresses the issues that concern him.
I would like to know why I got flagged for basically being offended that a post was on here aimed at a group I find myself in - saying fuck them.
I say fuck off back and all of a sudden that's not all right.
The Labour bias on this forum is getting crazy
Just ignore them, lots of deluded Labour supporters on here recently.
I'm very much one for promoting vote for who you wish etc., but when any party's supporters lie and then hate on others based on these lies it really pisses me off. They all seem to think Labour winning would create some equality utopia, forgetting that the privatisation of the NHS began under their lovely Labour, that expenses scandels were also done by Labour MPs. I do admit that this desire for equality 'they' are always claiming they support ('they' being the MPs and party leaders), is more realistic under Corbyn, but we all know their MPs won't back him fully. All the planned spending they claim they'll achieve from higher taxes to the rich will drive rich business away, thus actually making us all poorer.
Before the flags role in for hating on Labour, I'm not a hardline supporter for any party and I vote for who's the best at the time (baffles me that so many people can live their lives voting for the same party all the time).
I don't see much lying and hating going on at all though. Most of what has been said against the existing government is supported by the facts. We have seen poor growth, increasing debt, the goal of budget surplus constantly pushed back, our public services downgraded, rising homelessness, etc. Those are facts not lies or bias.
I keep asking the same question but I'm genuinely interested in what Tory voters think has gone well in the last 7 years? The few that have answered that question on here seem to base their response exclusively on "trickle down" economics that by happy coincidence allows them to retain more of their personal income. To the best of my of my recollection not one poster has tried to claim our society is in a better place overall than it was in 2010, even if they personally have done well.
What about foreign policy, defence, the environment, workers rights, industrial relations, productivity, education, transport and all the many other issues that we elect our government to direct on our behalf? Where's the positives from the last 7 years?
If even collectively we are unable to even half adequately answer those questions without falling back on the "at least they're not Corbyn!" response then surely one should doubt why one would want to continue down that route. That's not bias that's common sense...
The Conservatives are very weak and their record is as you say easy to pick apart. If Labour had a credible economic plan, could be trusted to limit unskilled migration and put forward leaders who the electorate had any faith in they'd be a shoe in for victory. It's notable that the same was true during the 2010 and 2015 elections yet little progress seems to have been made.
So tonight's programme on Channel 4/Sky News Channel does feature May and Corbyn, but the leaders debate on (I believe) Wednesday is the one that Mrs. Weak & Wobbly has backed out of?
One aspect of the debate is to suggest that indeed everybody works hard. However the disparity of reward for hard working people is a bit of an issue. I once worked on a building site where there was this strong Danish hod carrier. I have never seen anything like it, the sweat would drench him as he raced to keep the bricklayers supplied, he would put in an astonishing days work, but his pay was very modest compared to others like the site foreman, who also worked hard with his maps and drawings and overview and such like. The hod carrier and foreman were interdependent it seemed to me.
Are you suggesting they should be paid the same?
Philosophically a hard day's work is a hard day's work isn't it? I accept that people can't live without differentials, but I have a problem with a hard working Premier League footballer earning more in one week than a hard working care worker would earn in four years.
I would like to know why I got flagged for basically being offended that a post was on here aimed at a group I find myself in - saying fuck them.
I say fuck off back and all of a sudden that's not all right.
The Labour bias on this forum is getting crazy
Just ignore them, lots of deluded Labour supporters on here recently.
I'm very much one for promoting vote for who you wish etc., but when any party's supporters lie and then hate on others based on these lies it really pisses me off. They all seem to think Labour winning would create some equality utopia, forgetting that the privatisation of the NHS began under their lovely Labour, that expenses scandels were also done by Labour MPs. I do admit that this desire for equality 'they' are always claiming they support ('they' being the MPs and party leaders), is more realistic under Corbyn, but we all know their MPs won't back him fully. All the planned spending they claim they'll achieve from higher taxes to the rich will drive rich business away, thus actually making us all poorer.
Before the flags role in for hating on Labour, I'm not a hardline supporter for any party and I vote for who's the best at the time (baffles me that so many people can live their lives voting for the same party all the time).
In my case cabbles has it right, I don't feel any particular Labour bias, but I am certainly anti Tory. My encouragement of Labour is based on the hope that they can damage the Tories rather than the promotion of Diane Abbott for example, although the community approach inherent in some Labour policies appeals. I think Richard Ingram's described himself as a Conservative Anarchist and personally I don't feel a million miles from that. I sometimes contemplate how many degrees of separation there are between Nationalists and Fascists.
One aspect of the debate is to suggest that indeed everybody works hard. However the disparity of reward for hard working people is a bit of an issue. I once worked on a building site where there was this strong Danish hod carrier. I have never seen anything like it, the sweat would drench him as he raced to keep the bricklayers supplied, he would put in an astonishing days work, but his pay was very modest compared to others like the site foreman, who also worked hard with his maps and drawings and overview and such like. The hod carrier and foreman were interdependent it seemed to me.
Are you suggesting they should be paid the same?
Philosophically a hard day's work is a hard day's work isn't it? I accept that people can't live without differentials, but I have a problem with a hard working Premier League footballer earning more in one week than a hard working care worker would earn in four years.
Seems like there's a lot you don't agree with in this current age, which is good. Out of interest do you watch football on sky or BT? I'm not trying to dig anything out of you I just know people who refuse to watch Premier league football because of the obscene money involved.
My problem with Corbyn is this: The manifesto is not hard left at all in a European context. But that is where he comes from. Him. Abbott and McDonnell. I've seen the hard left close -up, thank you very much and I detest them as much as I detest the hard right Tories. The hard left disguises its true intentions until it gains power. The hard left took control of the Labour party in the mid 80s and Liverpool is the place where you saw the result in practice. It took Neil Kinnock to root them out and John Smith to finish the job. "Hard" anything leads to authoritarianism, corruption and intimidation. It ought to have no place in British politics.
Of course there are many young people (on CL too) who have no idea what I am on about. But Corbyn is older than me. I remember him from those days. I don't believe for one minute he or McDonnell have changed. Abbott has the further disadvantage of being thick. That "change of hairstyle" comment was just crass.
Yet unfortunately, he will count my vote for Clive Efford as a vote for him. And if he keeps her majority down, we will be stuck with him and the entire Momentum crew (for which read Soshulist Workah) as the main opposition for five years. What a grim scenario.
Comments
My real problem with Corbyn is not his policies but his leadership skills. He doesn't have the support of his own PLP. He has chosen a front bench that looks short on quality although I understand he can't get people to accept the posts anyway. He's a hypocrite which always attracts people's suspicion. Most importantly it would appear enough of the electorate have similar views to this for him to ultimately be a hinderence to a labour victory.
I won't Paint him as a saint, but he does say what he believes, and doesn't pretend otherwise to win votes. Possibly politically naive but certainly not hypocritical.
Bennett: Was a journalist in Australia. Did four years voluntary work in Thailand. On moving to Britain resumed journalism and was deputy editor of Guardian Weekly.
Corbyn: Worked briefly for a local newspaper, did two years voluntary service overseas before becoming a union official.
Farron: Spent ten years working in Higher Education. It doesn't say what though, not sure if he was a lecturer, administrator or something else.
Hope: Backing singer "Howling Laud" for Screaming Lord Sutch. Ran a pub and guesthouse.
May: Worked for the Bank of England for six years then spent a further twelve as a 'financial consultant and senior advisor in International Affairs'.
Nuttall: Was a lecturer at Liverpool Hope University (doesn't appear to be for very long though, not sure if he did anything else)
Sturgeon: Four years as a solicitor.
Wood: Three years as a probation officer. Also worked as a lecturer.
On one of the debates this morning they said the main three had only worked in politics.
Interesting reading, as you say, better histories than in other elections, I suspect.
Hope gets my vote for people's leader!
https://www.greenparty.org.uk/people/leaders-of-green-party.html
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
I say fuck off back and all of a sudden that's not all right.
The Labour bias on this forum is getting crazy
For what it's worth I agree with the statement to a large extent but I want to try and keep this thread as impartial as possible.
I think the Labour (or rather, as I see it anti Tory bias) comes from the fact that Charlton fans are probably largely made up of what was your typical working class. The areas our fans are from have always been to me what I would consider honest, hard working, perhaps not that affluent. Probably has an impact on our politics.
I'm very much one for promoting vote for who you wish etc., but when any party's supporters lie and then hate on others based on these lies it really pisses me off. They all seem to think Labour winning would create some equality utopia, forgetting that the privatisation of the NHS began under their lovely Labour, that expenses scandels were also done by Labour MPs. I do admit that this desire for equality 'they' are always claiming they support ('they' being the MPs and party leaders), is more realistic under Corbyn, but we all know their MPs won't back him fully. All the planned spending they claim they'll achieve from higher taxes to the rich will drive rich business away, thus actually making us all poorer.
Before the flags role in for hating on Labour, I'm not a hardline supporter for any party and I vote for who's the best at the time (baffles me that so many people can live their lives voting for the same party all the time).
Bartley: Parliamentary researcher and Parliamentary assistant working for John Major. Then co-founded the Ekklesia think tank.
Lucas: She holds qualifications in journalism and worked as a press officer for Oxfam in 1989. Seems to have spent the time since then in various roles with The Green Party and Oxfam.
I think these two are the closest on the list to career politicians.
Economically I am Tory and I would rather they handled Brexit discussions - but I am also very liberal in many ways. I was strongly pro Europe, I am massively anti racial discrimination (I am a quarter Japanese and wouldn't have been born if my grandmother hadn't migrated to the UK). I am probably not the Eton coat tails style Tory that people seem to have stereotyped on here .
I know what your work is. You shared it with me once, and I continue to be in touch with that sector, although I retired from front line employment in that field some 20 years ago.
At the time I left BMP DDB in 1993, I am almost certain I was in the top 5%. The point I want to make, which I would ask you t think about, is that if I could rollback time and resume the same job ( and I have researched this) my standard of living would be much worse. That is because in this time the salaries in that role have risen about 80%, however the value of my property - a modest 3 bedroom row house - has risen 600%. Of course you are much younger, but maybe you should ask yourself how come life has become so much less comfortable for people in London on your level of pay. It is not tax. I am almost certain that in 93 i would have been taxed at a higher rate than now. And yet, there are many more people in London able to buy the properties, pay the ludicrous prices in restaurants. Who are these people, and what taxes do they pay?
I think the mistake Labour has made is pitching too low at 80k, and not having explicit plans to go after the tax evading corporations or the super rich, especially people like Abramovic who is believed to be non resident, and yet seems to spend every other weekend in London at the least. Where is he resident, if not London?.
All that said, if I was back home now, I would gladly vote for a tax increase on the 2017 version of my salary if I thought it would go mainly towards funding the NHS and care, and the police and security upgrade that is clearly needed. If you don't believe me, I can assure you that I voted Labour - a higher tax Party - all the way through to 1992 included, despite having a profile that ought to have been Tory. That was true of most of my colleagues at BMP too. It was Labour's chosen ad agency, at least until The Valley Party came along :-)
I keep asking the same question but I'm genuinely interested in what Tory voters think has gone well in the last 7 years? The few that have answered that question on here seem to base their response exclusively on "trickle down" economics that by happy coincidence allows them to retain more of their personal income. To the best of my of my recollection not one poster has tried to claim our society is in a better place overall than it was in 2010, even if they personally have done well.
What about foreign policy, defence, the environment, workers rights, industrial relations, productivity, education, transport and all the many other issues that we elect our government to direct on our behalf? Where's the positives from the last 7 years?
If even collectively we are unable to even half adequately answer those questions without falling back on the "at least they're not Corbyn!" response then surely one should doubt why one would want to continue down that route. That's not bias that's common sense...
Radio stations refusing to play it despite web popularity.
http://wsyvf.com/x/1f4ax
It's good to know we brought him up right (or should that be 'left').
I think that's right but I'm not sure.
Mine, no surprise there. http://wsyvf.com/x/1f4l7
I accept that people can't live without differentials, but I have a problem with a hard working Premier League footballer earning more in one week than a hard working care worker would earn in four years.
I think Richard Ingram's described himself as a Conservative Anarchist and personally I don't feel a million miles from that.
I sometimes contemplate how many degrees of separation there are between Nationalists and Fascists.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/theresa-may-donald-trump-mole-eu-europe-climate-change-greenpeace-leaked-documents-a7761236.html
Of course there are many young people (on CL too) who have no idea what I am on about. But Corbyn is older than me. I remember him from those days. I don't believe for one minute he or McDonnell have changed. Abbott has the further disadvantage of being thick. That "change of hairstyle" comment was just crass.
Yet unfortunately, he will count my vote for Clive Efford as a vote for him. And if he keeps her majority down, we will be stuck with him and the entire Momentum crew (for which read Soshulist Workah) as the main opposition for five years. What a grim scenario.