A lot of hate from Prague without his normal substance. Does uttering 'hard left' give us an insight into some peverted lifestyle that nobody would wish to countenance?
I think you are old enough to answer the following question:
Neil Kinnock and Derek Hatton at that Labour Conference in (I think) 86.
Whose side were you on?
Whose side was Corbyn on?
I wasn't there. Did they rape children? Rob pensioners? Murder soapstars?
FFS Kinnock hard left? He is awash in the EU trough and if Boris had highlighted him, I might have voted Brexit. Substance please Prague.
My problem with Corbyn is this: The manifesto is not hard left at all in a European context. But that is where he comes from. Him. Abbott and McDonnell. I've seen the hard left close -up, thank you very much and I detest them as much as I detest the hard right Tories. The hard left disguises its true intentions until it gains power. The hard left took control of the Labour party in the mid 80s and Liverpool is the place where you saw the result in practice. It took Neil Kinnock to root them out and John Smith to finish the job. "Hard" anything leads to authoritarianism, corruption and intimidation. It ought to have no place in British politics.
Of course there are many young people (on CL too) who have no idea what I am on about. But Corbyn is older than me. I remember him from those days. I don't believe for one minute he or McDonnell have changed. Abbott has the further disadvantage of being thick. That "change of hairstyle" comment was just crass.
Yet unfortunately, he will count my vote for Clive Efford as a vote for him. And if he keeps her majority down, we will be stuck with him and the entire Momentum crew (for which read Soshulist Workah) as the main opposition for five years. What a grim scenario.
I used to run with the Revolutionary Communist Group (about 35 years ago) so trust me when I say that Cobyn is not hard left. He is soft left it is just that our politics have moved so far to the right he appears hard left merely on the virtue of standing still.
Incidentally I am now quite sure that I was the only member of the RCG who was not an undercover officer. I am not sure membership ever got over 15 mind.
Bizarrely I know someone who was for a period the leader of the RCP. ..... I fished with him for a week in France . It was a week of interesting and stimulating discussion
I think I probably mentioned this before, but two years ago here in Alberta, the ruling Progressive Conservatives called an out of cycle election which went against a legislative act setting the date of an election to a certain period every 4 years, for what were seen to be reasons of benefit to the party, rather than benefit to the province. It was also viewed as an act of arrogance by the PCs because they had won every Alberta general election since '71 and we there hadn't been a left of centre provincial government, in Alberta, since the 1930s. I'm sure I don't need to point out some of the parallels with how this UK general election came to be called, albeit that the UK Tories have not been quite so historically dominant.
However, as the campaign in Alberta went on there was a ground swell of support for the NDP (our equivalent of Labour). People partly wanted to punish the PCs for their self serving arrogance, there was more of an appetite for change than people had realised, the previously unrated leader of the NDP proved to be a much better campaigner than she was credited for, and they also underestimated how the huge numbers of economic migrants to Canada had changed Alberta's demographic. Eventually the NDP swept to a landslide victory and the PCs went from untouchable to third place.
In the last 2 and a bit years there has been 5 elections that I have followed closely, i.e. Alberta Provincial, UK General, Canadian Federal, EU Referendum, and US Federal. Of them, four have been won by a candidate or party coming from a fair way back in the polls at the start, sometimes not even in second place to be begin with, and sometimes not even ahead on election day.
I wonder if we're going to see a fifth, there definitely seems to be momentum behind Labour while the Conservatives are really floundering.
I wonder how many people watched that debate who hadn't already made their minds up. I never intended to vote for either, but thought Corbyn handled it far better. Can't stand the Tories or what they've done but there's something about the thought of a Corbyn government that just scares me. It's hard to put my finger on it It's like watching Murray being two sets up and still assuming that somehow he'll lose. But be my British sense of self hate
Check out #TeresaMayGIFs on Twitter. Very funny. You can see why the Tories resisted putting May into a debate. May put in a very poor, uncomfortable & stilted performance in the election debate.
Corbyn absolutely blew May away there. That was one of the most hesitant, inept performances I have seen from a politician, let alone a PM.
Dear God, I never liked the guy but what a statesman Cameron was in relation to May. That was a car crash of the highest order.
The really scary thing is she was probably the best of the candidates standing for the Tory leadership. Andrea Leadsom? Gove? Liam Fox? Can you imagine what they would've been like?
Check out #TeresaMayGIFs on Twitter. Very funny. You can see why the Tories resisted putting May into a debate. May put in a very poor, uncomfortable & stilted performance in the election debate.
I wasn't a fan anyway, but I honestly don't think May answered anything at all that the audience quizzed her on. Paxman wasn't as "shouty" as he was with Corbyn but, I'll give him his due, he did pull her apart.
The view from Brussels that she was "a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire" was spot on.
Only in Theresa's mind does "Brexit mean Brexit...except if I walk away and sulk" make sense. She obviously didn't like being questioned or pulled back time and again to actually try and get an answer out of her.
Unfortunately only the people interested in the fate of the country were watching. The vast majority will be voting on the basis of what the Sun, Star, Express and Mail tell them.
Corbyn absolutely blew May away there. That was one of the most hesitant, inept performances I have seen from a politician, let alone a PM.
Dear God, I never liked the guy but what a statesman Cameron was in relation to May. That was a car crash of the highest order.
The really scary thing is she was probably the best of the candidates standing for the Tory leadership. Andrea Leadsom? Gove? Liam Fox? Can you imagine what they would've been like?
Exactly. At the time I was glad it was her... She was the only grown up
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
McDonnell might look like someone's favourite uncle but he is an outright Trot. What's worse is that he now won't admit or let on exactly just how extreme his views are.
My problem with Corbyn is this: The manifesto is not hard left at all in a European context. But that is where he comes from. Him. Abbott and McDonnell. I've seen the hard left close -up, thank you very much and I detest them as much as I detest the hard right Tories. The hard left disguises its true intentions until it gains power. The hard left took control of the Labour party in the mid 80s and Liverpool is the place where you saw the result in practice. It took Neil Kinnock to root them out and John Smith to finish the job. "Hard" anything leads to authoritarianism, corruption and intimidation. It ought to have no place in British politics.
Of course there are many young people (on CL too) who have no idea what I am on about. But Corbyn is older than me. I remember him from those days. I don't believe for one minute he or McDonnell have changed. Abbott has the further disadvantage of being thick. That "change of hairstyle" comment was just crass.
Yet unfortunately, he will count my vote for Clive Efford as a vote for him. And if he keeps her majority down, we will be stuck with him and the entire Momentum crew (for which read Soshulist Workah) as the main opposition for five years. What a grim scenario.
I used to run with the Revolutionary Communist Group (about 35 years ago) so trust me when I say that Cobyn is not hard left. He is soft left it is just that our politics have moved so far to the right he appears hard left merely on the virtue of standing still.
Incidentally I am now quite sure that I was the only member of the RCG who was not an undercover officer. I am not sure membership ever got over 15 mind.
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
McDonnell might look like someone's favourite uncle but he is an outright Trot. What's worse is that he now won't admit or let on exactly just how extreme his views are.
I am a bit pissed so will no doubt regret this later but I like Lev Bronstein. Who else has been in a Stranglers song, got killed with an ice pick and had an affair with Frida Kahlo. We need mor of that kind of colour in British politics.
Yeah, probably not the best idea to out yourself as a Communist, even if no longer Revolutionary .
Corbyn absolutely blew May away there. That was one of the most hesitant, inept performances I have seen from a politician, let alone a PM.
Dear God, I never liked the guy but what a statesman Cameron was in relation to May. That was a car crash of the highest order.
The really scary thing is she was probably the best of the candidates standing for the Tory leadership. Andrea Leadsom? Gove? Liam Fox? Can you imagine what they would've been like?
You are ignoring Boris. With his Eton education, like so many previous PMs he'd be the top alternative. Doing great work as Foreign Secretary.
Corbyn absolutely blew May away there. That was one of the most hesitant, inept performances I have seen from a politician, let alone a PM.
Dear God, I never liked the guy but what a statesman Cameron was in relation to May. That was a car crash of the highest order.
The really scary thing is she was probably the best of the candidates standing for the Tory leadership. Andrea Leadsom? Gove? Liam Fox? Can you imagine what they would've been like?
Exactly. At the time I was glad it was her... She was the only grown up
There is a real dearth of quality politicians in the UK right now.
Prague this guy is a serious problem. Apart from the fact he deserted his socialist principles and became a rich property developer.
After becoming a firefighter, Derek Hatton joined the Labour Party and Militant, a Trotskyist organisation then following an entryist strategy within the Labour Party. As Deputy Leader of Liverpool City Council from 1983, Hatton was the most vocal and prominent member of the council's leadership. The Leader of the Council was John Hamilton, a quietly-spoken and much admired local politician.
Hatton joined the rate-capping rebellion in 1985 as the council refused to make a rate increase. In June, the council changed tactics and set an illegal "deficit budget" which committed it to spending £30 million in excess of its income, claiming that the excess represented grant "stolen" by central government. Once adopted by the Liverpool District Labour Party and 49 councillors, this policy catapulted Hatton and the city council into massive media attention and conflict with the then-Conservative government.
Hatton was expelled from the Labour Party in 1986 for belonging to Militant which had earlier been found to be in breach of the Labour Party's constitution. Hatton argued that Militant was a legitimate Marxist tendency within the Labour Party, but the National Executive Committee voted to expel him by 12 votes to 6.[2]
In 1993, Hatton was accused of corruption as Deputy Leader of Liverpool City Council. After a lengthy trial, he was found not guilty.
Corbyn absolutely blew May away there. That was one of the most hesitant, inept performances I have seen from a politician, let alone a PM.
Dear God, I never liked the guy but what a statesman Cameron was in relation to May. That was a car crash of the highest order.
The really scary thing is she was probably the best of the candidates standing for the Tory leadership. Andrea Leadsom? Gove? Liam Fox? Can you imagine what they would've been like?
You are ignoring Boris. With his Eton education, like so many previous PMs he'd be the top alternative. Doing great work as Foreign Secretary.
He didn't stand though, after Gove's wife "accidentally" sent that hatchet job email to a member of the public, who then passed it on to a journo.
My problem with Corbyn is this: The manifesto is not hard left at all in a European context. But that is where he comes from. Him. Abbott and McDonnell. I've seen the hard left close -up, thank you very much and I detest them as much as I detest the hard right Tories. The hard left disguises its true intentions until it gains power. The hard left took control of the Labour party in the mid 80s and Liverpool is the place where you saw the result in practice. It took Neil Kinnock to root them out and John Smith to finish the job. "Hard" anything leads to authoritarianism, corruption and intimidation. It ought to have no place in British politics.
Of course there are many young people (on CL too) who have no idea what I am on about. But Corbyn is older than me. I remember him from those days. I don't believe for one minute he or McDonnell have changed. Abbott has the further disadvantage of being thick. That "change of hairstyle" comment was just crass.
Yet unfortunately, he will count my vote for Clive Efford as a vote for him. And if he keeps her majority down, we will be stuck with him and the entire Momentum crew (for which read Soshulist Workah) as the main opposition for five years. What a grim scenario.
I used to run with the Revolutionary Communist Group (about 35 years ago) so trust me when I say that Cobyn is not hard left. He is soft left it is just that our politics have moved so far to the right he appears hard left merely on the virtue of standing still.
Incidentally I am now quite sure that I was the only member of the RCG who was not an undercover officer. I am not sure membership ever got over 15 mind.
Bizarrely I know someone who was for a period the leader of the RCP. ..... I fished with him for a week in France . It was a week of interesting and stimulating discussion
Ahh but I along with large parts of MI5 and CID were RCG. We were splitters from the RCP, I can't remember why but I am sure it was important.
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
McDonnell might look like someone's favourite uncle but he is an outright Trot. What's worse is that he now won't admit or let on exactly just how extreme his views are.
My problem with Corbyn is this: The manifesto is not hard left at all in a European context. But that is where he comes from. Him. Abbott and McDonnell. I've seen the hard left close -up, thank you very much and I detest them as much as I detest the hard right Tories. The hard left disguises its true intentions until it gains power. The hard left took control of the Labour party in the mid 80s and Liverpool is the place where you saw the result in practice. It took Neil Kinnock to root them out and John Smith to finish the job. "Hard" anything leads to authoritarianism, corruption and intimidation. It ought to have no place in British politics.
Of course there are many young people (on CL too) who have no idea what I am on about. But Corbyn is older than me. I remember him from those days. I don't believe for one minute he or McDonnell have changed. Abbott has the further disadvantage of being thick. That "change of hairstyle" comment was just crass.
Yet unfortunately, he will count my vote for Clive Efford as a vote for him. And if he keeps her majority down, we will be stuck with him and the entire Momentum crew (for which read Soshulist Workah) as the main opposition for five years. What a grim scenario.
I used to run with the Revolutionary Communist Group (about 35 years ago) so trust me when I say that Cobyn is not hard left. He is soft left it is just that our politics have moved so far to the right he appears hard left merely on the virtue of standing still.
Incidentally I am now quite sure that I was the only member of the RCG who was not an undercover officer. I am not sure membership ever got over 15 mind.
In what way is he a hypocrite and May not? And in what way does her bench have quality?
On record that Corbyn has bullied his backbenchers into voting the way he instructs when his record as a backbencher voting against the whip is totally unbelievable. Screams hypocrisy to me.
His Home Secretary should he win will be Diane Abbott and chancellor John McDonnell. Both of whom are poor choices in my opinion. As for conservative front bench they are not any better.
With you all the way on Abbott but McDonnell seems at least OK.
McDonnell might look like someone's favourite uncle but he is an outright Trot. What's worse is that he now won't admit or let on exactly just how extreme his views are.
I am a bit pissed so will no doubt regret this later but I like Lev Bronstein. Who else has been in a Stranglers song, got killed with an ice pick and had an affair with Frida Kahlo. We need mor of that kind of colour in British politics.
Yeah, probably not the best idea to out yourself as a Communist, even if no longer Revolutionary .
35 years ago I was also slim, had hair and didn't need glasses.
Comments
FFS Kinnock hard left? He is awash in the EU trough and if Boris had highlighted him, I might have voted Brexit. Substance please Prague.
Bizarrely I know someone who was for a period the leader of the RCP. ..... I fished with him for a week in France . It was a week of interesting and stimulating discussion
However, as the campaign in Alberta went on there was a ground swell of support for the NDP (our equivalent of Labour). People partly wanted to punish the PCs for their self serving arrogance, there was more of an appetite for change than people had realised, the previously unrated leader of the NDP proved to be a much better campaigner than she was credited for, and they also underestimated how the huge numbers of economic migrants to Canada had changed Alberta's demographic. Eventually the NDP swept to a landslide victory and the PCs went from untouchable to third place.
In the last 2 and a bit years there has been 5 elections that I have followed closely, i.e. Alberta Provincial, UK General, Canadian Federal, EU Referendum, and US Federal. Of them, four have been won by a candidate or party coming from a fair way back in the polls at the start, sometimes not even in second place to be begin with, and sometimes not even ahead on election day.
I wonder if we're going to see a fifth, there definitely seems to be momentum behind Labour while the Conservatives are really floundering.
It's like watching Murray being two sets up and still assuming that somehow he'll lose. But be my British sense of self hate
Glad to hear Corbyn was strong and May was shown up to be the fraud she is. I shall watch the recording with glee.
The view from Brussels that she was "a blowhard who collapses at the first sign of gunfire" was spot on.
Only in Theresa's mind does "Brexit mean Brexit...except if I walk away and sulk" make sense. She obviously didn't like being questioned or pulled back time and again to actually try and get an answer out of her.
After becoming a firefighter, Derek Hatton joined the Labour Party and Militant, a Trotskyist organisation then following an entryist strategy within the Labour Party. As Deputy Leader of Liverpool City Council from 1983, Hatton was the most vocal and prominent member of the council's leadership. The Leader of the Council was John Hamilton, a quietly-spoken and much admired local politician.
Hatton joined the rate-capping rebellion in 1985 as the council refused to make a rate increase. In June, the council changed tactics and set an illegal "deficit budget" which committed it to spending £30 million in excess of its income, claiming that the excess represented grant "stolen" by central government. Once adopted by the Liverpool District Labour Party and 49 councillors, this policy catapulted Hatton and the city council into massive media attention and conflict with the then-Conservative government.
Hatton was expelled from the Labour Party in 1986 for belonging to Militant which had earlier been found to be in breach of the Labour Party's constitution. Hatton argued that Militant was a legitimate Marxist tendency within the Labour Party, but the National Executive Committee voted to expel him by 12 votes to 6.[2]
In 1993, Hatton was accused of corruption as Deputy Leader of Liverpool City Council. After a lengthy trial, he was found not guilty.