The General Election - June 8th 2017

Incidentally when was the last time we had a party in power that wasn't the biggest party? Something that we can all agree would have to happen for Corbyn to walk into Number 10?

The 7/7 bombings occurred on Labour's watch

Dazzler21 said:

newyorkaddick said:

The 7/7 bombings occurred on Labour's watch

Point being?

i guess the point being that whatever party is in power there is an almost (frighteningly) impossible job to stop these nutters doing what they want to do.

TelMc32 said:

Dippenhall said:

Red_in_SE8 said:

Dippenhall said:

PragueAddick said:

@Dippenhall

Lots to consider there as usual. I'll be fact checking a lot of your assertions with my Swedish mate. dont worry, he is far to the right of me, and is CEO of Haki, a scaffolding company. Nevertheless....

In the meantime, i am glad you brought up the issue of economic predictions of Remainers. I tried to explain ad nauseam that no sensible person with any economic background was predicting instant recession. My personal prediction was that we would see U.K. growth slowing to a rate lower than that in leading euro zone countries. ( wheats for most of last year it was outperforming most, as much touted by Bojo and co.

In that regard, what then are your comments about the Q1 GDP growth figures for,the U.K., and for the euro zone?

Never disputed the possibility of Brexit causing a short term drop in growth. Consumption is what drives our economy and anything that reduces consumer spending will hit output. There would be no double standards if I voted for Brexit, Corbyn and a recession.

If following Brexit, (the dumbest decision in the history of the World I am reliably informed), results in a 3% increase in unit cost of production, or even 10% on some goods, by way of EU tariffs, and is a disaster for UK profitability, can someone tell me why a 7% hit on actual profits themselves will have no impact on UK business that concerns a Corbyn Remain voter. Answers on the back of stamp.

Who will benefit from the 10% tariffs? The EU economy.

Who will benefit from a 7% increase in corporation tax? The UK economy.

The increase in corporation tax will help fund government investment in education, training, NHS and transport infrastructure to name just a few things. Government investment in big ticket items like these leads to increased GDP in the longer term, increased consumer demand and bigger profits for UK companies.

The EU consumer will pay 10% more for UK imports to increase EU inflation, or we export to countries that want to trade with us, that's good for the EU?

A 7% corporation tax does not help the economy unless the money government takes away from businesses, that otherwise would have invested, is better invested to improve output and is not pissed up the wall. It's not the motives that are necessarily wrong, it's the idea Corbyn and Abbott and McDonnell have a have a scooby doo how to achieve their aims.

Much more likely is an alliance between the Labour government Unite and Momentum to nationalise everything, fuel wage inflation without productivity gains, burn all the money they raise from tax and borrowing, run out of cash and then blame business and the rich for making the country bankrupt.

In a funny peculiar way I would like to see Corbyn get elected and sit back and watch the fun.

I will not vote Tory out of a genetic abnormality, but through a simple process of elimination of the parties least likely to destroy the economy. That's ignoring the Labour party led by chancers who have spent their attention seeking political careers as "radicals" and now in the uncomfortable position of having to justify and explain their bizarre past activities. If May is winging it Labour are flying on a wing and a prayer.

@Dippenhall I always read your posts with interest, but I am always fascinated by this notion that the Conservatives are better custodians of the economy than Labour.

These guys run a lot of analysis on Public Spending, Budget Deficits, Public Investment, Public Debt and Unemployment. Labour come out very well on all points and appear to be more fiscally conservative than, well, the Conservatives.

http://www.primeeconomics.org/articles/taq30tk04ljnvpyfos059pp0w7gnpe


Full Fact seem to suggest that performance of both parties over more recent years has been pretty similar and Labour were overseeing a pretty steady ship - to be expected in a growing economy - until the GFC.
https://fullfact.org/economy/labour-and-conservative-records-national-debt/

I'm not sure there's anything to suggest that the Conservatives are so much better managing the economy. Other than the usual suspects of Fleet Street and other forms of Murdoch media telling us that is the case.

I'm not saying I believe everything in the Labour manifesto will be delivered - no government ever does - but they have had a go at costing it and independent analysis has been only as critical of them as they have of the Conservatives.

I would be interested in understanding why you believe the Conservatives will be less likely to ruin the economy, which I am not convinced they have handled that well in the last 7 years.

@DamoNorthStand despite what Murdoch, Rothermere, the Barclay Brothers, Desmond and the Conservatives would have you believe, constantly saying that Labour will screw up the economy doesn't make it true. I don't believe @Dippenhall came back on this post, but the various sources of information seem to dispel this myth completely.

As I am sure you know well enough, whilst the note left by Liam Byrne for David Laws was crass, it was a repeat of what the Tory Chancellor, Reginald Maudling said to the incoming James Callaghan 50 years earlier!


Anyway, in breaking news...Corbin calls on May to resign over police funding cuts!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/05/london-attack-isis-claims-responsibility-victims-named-live-updates

That I agree with 100%.

I question if we could start by trying to take at least one of them alive in future. We all know that the vests forced the police's hand in having to go for kill shots. Just one of them living could have turned out so much evidence.

Now we don't know if their vests are real or fake, whether they're going to run us over, blow us up, stab or shoot us.

We're in a dark, dark place. We need a PM with guts to take on the issue.

May is all talk and no trousers and Corbyn refuses to take on terrorism...

We're f***ed

Greenie Junior said:

Chizz said:

Greenie Junior said:

Not good viewing at all. You could argue that the majority of this country have not just woken up to the very real threat and seen the damage of under funding police can do, hopefully the government will now see that they simply have to fund extra officers. After yesterday's statement, I'd give them the chance to show this. Obviously this opinion could change in the coming days if nothing is done/pledged in the remaining days of the campaign.

I also think this should be seen, some quite worrying quotes on Corbyns stance with ISIS supporters, I understand what he's saying, but you have to make an exception with these people who show support on terror, I think the majority of the country will now agree that it should be a criminal offence. This for me sums my feelings of Corbyn, Abbott McDonnell etc up, they keep going back on their beliefs, Ira ("I don't have the same hair as I did then and I don't have the same views" - Abbott, Corbyn on trident, Corbyn on shoot to kill') id imagine he will be out swiftly to say his opinion has changed on this too. I feel as though he's hiding his true opinions and views to get into power and to me that's quite worrying.

https://order-order.com/2017/06/05/corbyn-defended-fighters-returning-from-syria/

Interesting spin by Order Order on what Corbyn says in that video.

It should also be noted that the Jihadis whom he's referring to were in the main encouraged by MI6 (while Cameron was Prime Minister) to fight in Syria and Libya to help in the overthrow of Assad and Gadaffi. And the same ones who returned to the UK and "lost" by MI5 (while May was Home Secretary), and who can't be tracked by the police or MI5 who are seriously underfunded (while May is Prime Minister).

Corbyn is right that those people breaking the law should be punished. It's just a shame that, because of Theresa May's lack of action there are so many of them, here in the UK.

Whilst what you're saying is relevant, do the quotes not slightly worry you? Do you agree with this opinion that these Isis supporters shouldn't be treated like criminals for essentially expressing an opinion? (genuine question, not trying to go for you as such)

To me this is really clear. It's simply a case of what the law says.

If they have fought for ISIS (or anyone else) abroad, and doing that is illegal, they should be charged. [To my shame, I'll admit that I don't even know if it is illegal to fight abroad (other than for our armed forces). I think it is. I certainly think it should be].

If they haven't fought, but have expressed support for ISIS, I think they should be watched, investigated, interrogated. And if they've broken the law in any way, they should be charged. But, even though ISIS is pretty much the most abhorrent, despicable group imaginable, I don't think it should be illegal to "express support" for it. (Although, to be clear, expressing support for ISIS *must* mark someone out as a person that needs to be investigated).

If they are a member of ISIS, they should be jailed. If it's not already, ISIS should be proscribed and membership illegal.

To be clear, someone expressing their opinion isn't breaking the law. Someone acting on their opinion might be. Someone encouraging others to act on their opinion might be. But one of the freedoms we have in the UK - and we need to protect - is this freedom of expression, even if we are vehemently opposed to it.

DamoNorthStand said:

Greenie said:

DamoNorthStand said:

Dazzler21 said:

newyorkaddick said:

The 7/7 bombings occurred on Labour's watch

Point being?

i guess the point being that whatever party is in power there is an almost (frighteningly) impossible job to stop these nutters doing what they want to do.

Yes we all know that its a tough job, but surely even a moron knows that culling the Police by 20,000 isn't going to make it easier......er......or maybe she doesn't know?

But then I thought we needed more into the NHS.
And more into the benefits system
And paying student loans off
And cutting tuition fees
And now in the face of this latest attack, more money into protecting this country
And raising the minimum wage

It is an ever growing list. You cannot do everything.

You are right....but...you can so something.....!

Eltham MP making the right points re Qatar

guinnessaddick said:

She can find money for Trident, how about spending some of that money on the police?

just cut the overseas aid budget to zero, that'll do it.

Callumcafc said:

DamoNorthStand said:

Greenie said:

DamoNorthStand said:

Dazzler21 said:

newyorkaddick said:

The 7/7 bombings occurred on Labour's watch

Point being?

i guess the point being that whatever party is in power there is an almost (frighteningly) impossible job to stop these nutters doing what they want to do.

Yes we all know that its a tough job, but surely even a moron knows that culling the Police by 20,000 isn't going to make it easier......er......or maybe she doesn't know?

But then I thought we needed more into the NHS.
And more into the benefits system
And paying student loans off
And cutting tuition fees
And now in the face of this latest attack, more money into protecting this country
And raising the minimum wage

It is an ever growing list. You cannot do everything.

So let's do nothing on that list instead?

Didnt realise that was an option?

Like all MP's, Corbyn will be expected to represent his constituents and listen to their views and concerns whatever their race. It so happens there are a lot of Irish living in the Camden area, so he is bound to listen to them. The catholics have been badly treated in Northern Ireland for many decades so it would not surprise me if he was sympathetic to their concerns. (I have always thought the Paisley led DUP as behaving in a crass manner - marching in Catholic areas etc but my views are irrelevant.) But Corbyn is a pacifist by nature so would not agree with the violent actions of the IRA but probably would have given support to Sinn Fein as part of his ongoing 'working for peace.' I don't see much wrong with that.

Callumcafc said:

DamoNorthStand said:

Greenie said:

DamoNorthStand said:

Dazzler21 said:

newyorkaddick said:

The 7/7 bombings occurred on Labour's watch

Point being?

i guess the point being that whatever party is in power there is an almost (frighteningly) impossible job to stop these nutters doing what they want to do.

Yes we all know that its a tough job, but surely even a moron knows that culling the Police by 20,000 isn't going to make it easier......er......or maybe she doesn't know?

But then I thought we needed more into the NHS.
And more into the benefits system
And paying student loans off
And cutting tuition fees
And now in the face of this latest attack, more money into protecting this country
And raising the minimum wage

It is an ever growing list. You cannot do everything.

So let's do nothing on that list instead?

Other countries that are considered to be poorer than us still manage to have free university, a decent comprehensive welfare system, well-funded hospitals, a good level of wages, and manage to do all this without facing two terror attacks in the space of two weeks.

So clearly we can afford it if other countries can.