The influence of the EU on Britain.
Comments
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Don’t bring facts and statistics into it. This is the thread where the EU was compared to nazi Germany and someone wanted to pull Ireland out to the mid Atlantic and sink it. If I want to make a statement without any facts to back it up that can be proven to be wrong, I canChizz said:
How does that square with the fact that England were ranked 11th, 18th and 21st in the first three years of the Premier League and are now 6th, two places away from their highest ever position, while Germany (1st to 15th), Spain (5th to 9th) and Italy (2nd to 21st) have declined over the same period?cabbles said:
That would be a good thing, but i think the premier league sold young english talent down the river a long time ago.MuttleyCAFC said:It could be argued it would provide more opportunities for English players.
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And someone thinks Al Campbell's opinion is worth repeating.
Like you say, you couldn't make it up!
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Thanks for the link. It has taken over two years to get nowhere and for more and more people to become aware of the effects of a no deal Brexit. For sure there might be an inquiry if May and the rest cock it up with a no-deal outcome.Red_in_SE8 said:I like the first part of Alastair Campbell's blog here. If the Brexiteers wilfully send the country over the cliff and the economy tanks for a generation and people literally die because of interruption of drug supplies as a result, then the liars and criminals responsible should be held to account by a public enquiry and the courts of law.
https://alastaircampbell.org/2018/09/the-more-sensible-cabinet-ministers-are-looking-towards-the-inevitable-public-inquiry-if-brexit-happens/
However it's still rational to hold out hope that this will not occur for three reasons:
First it's not in the DUP interests so will they continue to support May? Second, one hopes that Tory remain MPs will take a stance and finally polls show that opposition to a second referendum has dropped from 46% down to 36% since Article 50 was invoked.0 -
Just ask him about his government's decision to lie to parliament over Iraq's WMD.A-R-T-H-U-R said:And someone thinks Al Campbell's opinion is worth repeating.
Like you say, you couldn't make it up!
;-)
fwiw....I still think there will be a deal by November. TM will be told to accept certain watered down aspects of her Chequers proposal & if she does then the other 27 countries will back it......a nod & a wink and jobs a good 'un.
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That story about him in the shop (which belongs on the DHOYA).... yuk.Callumcafc said:0 -
We had four very expensive, very long and very exhaustive public inquiries asking that question. I know there are many swivel eyed looney conspiracy theorists on the left and the right who will always believe that Blair is a war criminal but the facts established by these inquiries failed to prove that. Catastrophic mistakes were made but there was no wilful intent to ignore reports and advice from the intelligence communities and other experts.golfaddick said:
Just ask him about his government's decision to lie to parliament over Iraq's WMD.A-R-T-H-U-R said:And someone thinks Al Campbell's opinion is worth repeating.
Like you say, you couldn't make it up!
;-)
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https://alastaircampbell.org/2016/07/many-mistakes-yes-but-no-lies-no-deceit-no-secret-deals-no-sexing-up-and-ultimately-a-matter-of-leadership-and-judgement/2 -
Great to see your support for a middle class Cambridge graduate who worked and fought for Robert Maxwell.0
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Make sure his wife is top of the list!Addickted2TheReds said:
That story about him in the shop (which belongs on the DHOYA).... yuk.Callumcafc said:0 -
Great to see yours for government that is engaged in killing it's own people TODAY.A-R-T-H-U-R said:Great to see your support for a middle class Cambridge graduate who worked and fought for Robert Maxwell.
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I recall knowing that it was ridiculous that Sadam was a threat to us at the time, so find it hard to understand how Blair wasn't aware.Red_in_SE8 said:
We had four very expensive, very long and very exhaustive public inquiries asking that question. I know there are many swivel eyed looney conspiracy theorists on the left and the right who will always believe that Blair is a war criminal but the facts established by these inquiries failed to prove that. Catastrophic mistakes were made but there was no wilful intent to ignore reports and advice from the intelligence communities and other experts.golfaddick said:
Just ask him about his government's decision to lie to parliament over Iraq's WMD.A-R-T-H-U-R said:And someone thinks Al Campbell's opinion is worth repeating.
Like you say, you couldn't make it up!
;-)
.....
https://alastaircampbell.org/2016/07/many-mistakes-yes-but-no-lies-no-deceit-no-secret-deals-no-sexing-up-and-ultimately-a-matter-of-leadership-and-judgement/1 -
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Some people are just one eyed jacks.golfaddick said:
Just ask him about his government's decision to lie to parliament over Iraq's WMD.A-R-T-H-U-R said:And someone thinks Al Campbell's opinion is worth repeating.
Like you say, you couldn't make it up!
;-)
fwiw....I still think there will be a deal by November. TM will be told to accept certain watered down aspects of her Chequers proposal & if she does then the other 27 countries will back it......a nod & a wink and jobs a good 'un.0 -
Someone once said to me here, that quoting Andrew Castle was a sign of desperation, I conclude that quoting this yesterdays man is equally the same, always has the answer after the event.A-R-T-H-U-R said:And someone thinks Al Campbell's opinion is worth repeating.
Like you say, you couldn't make it up!
;-)0 -
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"An analysis by the pollster Peter Kellner, which should terrify the Brexiteers, found that — based purely on demographics — the Leave majority is shrinking by 1,000 a day and will disappear completely by the end of next year."
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If demographics is so central-how would you explain why those who voted to stay in the (now) EU in the Seventies are the ones who now want to leave? It is a political and not a demographic decision and the older you are the more experience you have of the EU-and the more you want to get out.Red_in_SE8 said:"An analysis by the pollster Peter Kellner, which should terrify the Brexiteers, found that — based purely on demographics — the Leave majority is shrinking by 1,000 a day and will disappear completely by the end of next year."
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For those interested in the polls this paper has just been released. It' sfairly long but some highlights consist:
A) The proportion of voters preferring free trade AND freedom of movement has shifted from 50:50 to 60:40
More voters believe that Brexit leads to a bad deal and will be bad for the economy
C) There is a trend for people to "fib" about how they voted with surveys showing a 53:47 Remain win which is a 4% swing from what actually happened.
D) At the same time polls are now showing a clear win for REmaini if there were to be another vote
E) Voters are much less fussed about controls over immigration from the EU
F) The swing towards Remain is explained by only 6% of Remain voters would now vote leave whereas it's 12% in the other direction. And at the same time half of those who abstained say they would now vote remain.
Overall the trend towards remain appears to be down to the survey that 20% of Leave voters (from 2016) now believe that the economy will be worse off together with the fact that the electorate as a whole is more relacxed about immigration.
As before these polls will shift further this year and events such as Party Conferences and the actual discussions with M.Barnier and the EU27 will have an impact as they shape what is really on offer and how certain groups of politicians might respond.
Meanwhile the GMB, one of the largest Unions support a second vote for the electorate via a referendum or an election. And M.Barnier is sticking to the principle of a backstop for N.Irelend with the province retaining CU and SM status - this as part of the actual Exit agreement.
Something has to give... something will give.3 -
There's a blog piece by John Curtice regarding this paper here https://whatukthinks.org/eu/what-might-lead-voters-to-change-their-minds-about-brexit/seriously_red said:For those interested in the polls this paper has just been released. It' sfairly long but some highlights consist:
A) The proportion of voters preferring free trade AND freedom of movement has shifted from 50:50 to 60:40 More voters believe that Brexit leads to a bad deal and will be bad for the economy
C) There is a trend for people to "fib" about how they voted with surveys showing a 53:47 Remain win which is a 4% swing from what actually happened.
D) At the same time polls are now showing a clear win for REmaini if there were to be another vote
E) Voters are much less fussed about controls over immigration from the EU
F) The swing towards Remain is explained by only 6% of Remain voters would now vote leave whereas it's 12% in the other direction. And at the same time half of those who abstained say they would now vote remain.
Overall the trend towards remain appears to be down to the survey that 20% of Leave voters (from 2016) now believe that the economy will be worse off together with the fact that the electorate as a whole is more relacxed about immigration.
As before these polls will shift further this year and events such as Party Conferences and the actual discussions with M.Barnier and the EU27 will have an impact as they shape what is really on offer and how certain groups of politicians might respond.
Meanwhile the GMB, one of the largest Unions support a second vote for the electorate via a referendum or an election. And M.Barnier is sticking to the principle of a backstop for N.Irelend with the province retaining CU and SM status - this as part of the actual Exit agreement.
Something has to give... something will give.1 - Sponsored links:
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Capital B and closed bracket. How many times do I have to say itseriously_red said:For those interested in the polls this paper has just been released. It' sfairly long but some highlights consist:
A) The proportion of voters preferring free trade AND freedom of movement has shifted from 50:50 to 60:40 More voters believe that Brexit leads to a bad deal and will be bad for the economy
C) There is a trend for people to "fib" about how they voted with surveys showing a 53:47 Remain win which is a 4% swing from what actually happened.
D) At the same time polls are now showing a clear win for REmaini if there were to be another vote
E) Voters are much less fussed about controls over immigration from the EU
F) The swing towards Remain is explained by only 6% of Remain voters would now vote leave whereas it's 12% in the other direction. And at the same time half of those who abstained say they would now vote remain.
Overall the trend towards remain appears to be down to the survey that 20% of Leave voters (from 2016) now believe that the economy will be worse off together with the fact that the electorate as a whole is more relacxed about immigration.
As before these polls will shift further this year and events such as Party Conferences and the actual discussions with M.Barnier and the EU27 will have an impact as they shape what is really on offer and how certain groups of politicians might respond.
Meanwhile the GMB, one of the largest Unions support a second vote for the electorate via a referendum or an election. And M.Barnier is sticking to the principle of a backstop for N.Irelend with the province retaining CU and SM status - this as part of the actual Exit agreement.
Something has to give... something will give.0 -
I am 64. I voted to join. I became more pro EU ( or EEC) as I experienced the fall of Communist Europe first hand. I then went to live in what you would call "the EU". Every day it seemed to me like a very good way for Europe to organize itself. Every day Brexit looks to me like a bigger load of bollocks.Southbank said:
If demographics is so central-how would you explain why those who voted to stay in the (now) EU in the Seventies are the ones who now want to leave? It is a political and not a demographic decision and the older you are the more experience you have of the EU-and the more you want to get out.Red_in_SE8 said:"An analysis by the pollster Peter Kellner, which should terrify the Brexiteers, found that — based purely on demographics — the Leave majority is shrinking by 1,000 a day and will disappear completely by the end of next year."
Demographics isn't central to how people voted, that has already been proven. However it is a fact that Brexit voters are overweighted into the older age bracket.6 -
You never know, perhaps 40 years of lies and misinformation have influenced them.Southbank said:
If demographics is so central-how would you explain why those who voted to stay in the (now) EU in the Seventies are the ones who now want to leave? It is a political and not a demographic decision and the older you are the more experience you have of the EU-and the more you want to get out.Red_in_SE8 said:"An analysis by the pollster Peter Kellner, which should terrify the Brexiteers, found that — based purely on demographics — the Leave majority is shrinking by 1,000 a day and will disappear completely by the end of next year."
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Getting EU support is the easy bit, she then has to get the Tory party to back itgolfaddick said:
Just ask him about his government's decision to lie to parliament over Iraq's WMD.A-R-T-H-U-R said:And someone thinks Al Campbell's opinion is worth repeating.
Like you say, you couldn't make it up!
;-)
fwiw....I still think there will be a deal by November. TM will be told to accept certain watered down aspects of her Chequers proposal & if she does then the other 27 countries will back it......a nod & a wink and jobs a good 'un.0 -
Couldn’t agree more.PragueAddick said:
I am 64. I voted to join. I became more pro EU ( or EEC) as I experienced the fall of Communist Europe first hand. I then went to live in what you would call "the EU". Every day it seemed to me like a very good way for Europe to organize itself. Every day Brexit looks to me like a bigger load of bollocks.Southbank said:
If demographics is so central-how would you explain why those who voted to stay in the (now) EU in the Seventies are the ones who now want to leave? It is a political and not a demographic decision and the older you are the more experience you have of the EU-and the more you want to get out.Red_in_SE8 said:"An analysis by the pollster Peter Kellner, which should terrify the Brexiteers, found that — based purely on demographics — the Leave majority is shrinking by 1,000 a day and will disappear completely by the end of next year."
Demographics isn't central to how people voted, that has already been proven. However it is a fact that Brexit voters are overweighted into the older age bracket.
As a naive youngster I voted against joining the EC in 1975. As a 60 year old, with more experience of the realities of life and the benefit of travelling and working/living in mainland Europe I voted to remain. It was a no brainier.3 -
Where?Algarveaddick said:
Great to see yours for government that is engaged in killing it's own people TODAY.A-R-T-H-U-R said:Great to see your support for a middle class Cambridge graduate who worked and fought for Robert Maxwell.
#FakeAlgarvenotnews2 -
Whose he.Red_in_SE8 said:"An analysis by the pollster Peter Kellner, which should terrify the Brexiteers, found that — based purely on demographics — the Leave majority is shrinking by 1,000 a day and will disappear completely by the end of next year."
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Trend in my office is 10 leavers and 2 collaborators... As it was in 2016.seriously_red said:For those interested in the polls this paper has just been released. It' sfairly long but some highlights consist:
A) The proportion of voters preferring free trade AND freedom of movement has shifted from 50:50 to 60:40 More voters believe that Brexit leads to a bad deal and will be bad for the economy
C) There is a trend for people to "fib" about how they voted with surveys showing a 53:47 Remain win which is a 4% swing from what actually happened.
D) At the same time polls are now showing a clear win for REmaini if there were to be another vote
E) Voters are much less fussed about controls over immigration from the EU
F) The swing towards Remain is explained by only 6% of Remain voters would now vote leave whereas it's 12% in the other direction. And at the same time half of those who abstained say they would now vote remain.
Overall the trend towards remain appears to be down to the survey that 20% of Leave voters (from 2016) now believe that the economy will be worse off together with the fact that the electorate as a whole is more relacxed about immigration.
As before these polls will shift further this year and events such as Party Conferences and the actual discussions with M.Barnier and the EU27 will have an impact as they shape what is really on offer and how certain groups of politicians might respond.
Meanwhile the GMB, one of the largest Unions support a second vote for the electorate via a referendum or an election. And M.Barnier is sticking to the principle of a backstop for N.Irelend with the province retaining CU and SM status - this as part of the actual Exit agreement.
Something has to give... something will give.0 -
Again.A-R-T-H-U-R said:
Where?Algarveaddick said:
Great to see yours for government that is engaged in killing it's own people TODAY.A-R-T-H-U-R said:Great to see your support for a middle class Cambridge graduate who worked and fought for Robert Maxwell.
#FakeAlgarvenotnews1 -
Karen Bradley admits ignorance of Northern Ireland politics
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/07/karen-bradley-admits-not-understanding-northern-irish-politics?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
I find this simply astonishing. The sheer ignorance and stupidity of senior ministers in this Tory government, a government leading the country in the most perilous times since WW2, is truly truly shocking!7
