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The thread about Boxing
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My view is that Tyson has a dig but rarely gets to use it the better the quality of his opposition because he consciously 'boxes' rather than 'fights' his opponent as, with his long reach, that is his greater strength.Greenie said:
Its all relative @el@elcafc, compared and relative to other fighters in the heavies Fury doesn't have that dig.elcafc said:Greenie said:Im all for conspiracy theories and a bit of goss.
But could it be a combination of genuine reasons...that maybe AJ hadn't trained to fight the tub of lard that beat him (styles make fights etc), he took Ruiz to lightly (no pun intended), remember these are powerful guys and all in the top ten (barring Fury) have a dig and can roll anyone over given the chance.I think its all the above, add in that AJ got smacked in the third and his bell was rung, and couldn't deal with Ruiz hand speed and inside work because maybe he was concussed from the 3rd round knock down, also I think that AJ wanted to spark Ruiz, so once he realise that Ruiz was gonna fight him all the way he didn't have the nous to box and move and take him on points.I think when they have the rematch, it will be a different fight. The sign of a great boxer/fighter is when they come back after losing.The comment re Fury not having a dig is laughable, if you think a 6 foot 9 250lbs plus man isn't capable of hurting someone then you are very mistaken.
Fury doesn't sit down on his punches, he largely boxes off the back foot using scoring shots and lots of movement.
He hurt Wilder in the 1st and 12th of their fight, he hurt Klitschko late in their fight (although this was after a break) and has a 70% KO ratio. hardly Paulie Malignaggi!
Yes one of his jabs would flatten me no doubt but im not a heavy.You kind of agreed with it yourself as well, because of the way Fury boxes, 'off the back foot using scoring shots and lots of movement.'So I stand by my comment.
For me a fit Tyson Fury is the best around right now but I question whether he will ever get the opportunity to win the belts that would prove it given boxing politics.0 -
I guess, my point really was that he is capable of and has hurt top guys so he can crack, he just chooses to box most of the time. When he and Wilder had a trade up in the 12th after the knock down it was Wilder that was stunned. You eluded to the fact that anyone in the division could roll someone over other than Fury. I disagree.
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bobmunro said:snowinberlin said:no one's asked why he was concussed in sparring? leads me to 2 questions: 1) how did he get duffed up bad by his sparring partner? doesn't sound good 2) do they really go hammer and tongs in sparring or was it more just an accident? sounds very unusual
More importantly, if he was hurt during sparring, why was that taking place so close to the fight? There should be no sparring whatsoever for the week leading up to the fight, ideally two weeks.
Thats the question that needs answers
and as for hammer and tongs some of the best matches I have ever witnessed have been in sparring and I mean fights I’d have happily paid to see
but they should finish the Friday of the week before the fight latest ideally Tuesday or weds0 -
I think we're all a bit knee jerk to this shock result, and I'm not convinced Fury is the best out there, no one took him seriously until he beat klitschko and he frustrated him with a defensive display, who has he put on his back? Nobody. Let's give aj the benefit of the doubt and see if he can come back stronger like most of the best heavyweights have done0
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Immediate rematch coming...0
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Those that know Boxing better than me, am I off the mark comparing Joshua with Herbie Hide?
Good boxing skills, impressive physique, looks unbeatable when dominating a lesser opponent, but questionable stamina and doesn’t take a dig as well as other heavies.
since that Klitchko victory he seems to have changed as a boxer imo. Seems more cautious, hides behind the jab a lot more. Seems to me he is afraid in fights of getting hurt or just doesn’t have the confidence in his abilities that he had previously1 -
More frank Bruno than hide but similar to bothAFKABartram said:Those that know Boxing better than me, am I off the mark comparing Joshua with Herbie Hide?
Good boxing skills, impressive physique, looks unbeatable when dominating a lesser opponent, but questionable stamina and doesn’t take a dog as well as other heavies.
since that Klitchko victory he seems to have changed as a boxer imo. Seems more cautious, hides behind the jab a lot more. Seems to me he is afraid in fights of getting hurt or just doesn’t have the confidence in his abilities that he had previously
I honestly think joshua has become an on top fighter. He didn't know what to do with someone who came at him throwing combos. Joshua looked like a novice and lacked heart which was the biggest surprise to me.0 -
I actually feel this could be the making of him now.1
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Nothing we hadn't heard already, but the following is copied from Bleacher Report:
Anthony Joshua reportedly was "hurt badly" during a training session with boxer Joey Dawejko prior to his fight against Andy Ruiz Jr. at Madison Square Garden in New York last Saturday, per World Boxing News.
World Boxing News reported Dawejko knocked Joshua down while sparring, which "visibly marked his face."
Joshua's promoter, Eddie Hearn, has denied that the boxer was injured during the sparring session.
"Absolutely there is no truth that he was badly hurt in sparring, there were no health concerns going into the fight," Hearn said, according to Gareth A. Davies of The Telegraph.
Entering the fight undefeated at 22-0, Joshua stepped into the ring as a heavy favorite against Ruiz. However, Ruiz shocked the world by knocking Joshua down multiple times in the seventh round, ultimately winning via TKO:
DAZN USA@DAZN_USA
Andy F—ING RUIZ JR. #JoshuaRuiz https://t.co/bjjNhWlbTD
With that, Ruiz (33-1) became the first heavyweight champion of Mexican descent as he took his opponent's WBA, WBO, IBF and IBO heavyweight titles.
The result of the fight led to boxing star Manny Pacquiao calling it "one of the biggest upsets in boxing history":
Manny Pacquiao@MannyPacquiao
WOW! Andy Ruiz just shocked the world! That was one of the biggest upsets in boxing history.
Per ESPN's Ariel Helwani, Hearn said on Saturday that there will be a rematch in November or December in the United Kingdom.
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Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?
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Exactly not even close mateFishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?0 -
AJ is better than Hide better than Bruno by miles
herbie had a chance to be far greater than he got to but mentally did not have it
AJ wasn’t right last week I’d bet every penny I have that he went in to that fight when he shouldn’t have
the reason he is so keen on the rematch is he knows himself this is a freak result
I am not his biggest fan I have long believed that he is not the finished article he is easily read and he is very easy to hit
what he does have is superior strength superior speed and a mental attitude that I haven’t seen in any UK fighter in the last 5-10 years probably since Eubank himself
I certainly am no fan boy who can not accept that AJ lost
Tyson fury I said many many moons ago was going to be a contender he went far past that and had gone on to be the best heavyweight boxer this country has ever produced so far
but he isn’t the best fighter he is not the best athlete he is not the hardest hitting heavyweight I would say that AJ beats him in all three of those departments but he couldn’t lace Tyson’s gloves when it comes to boxing
you get elite level boxers
you get world level
you get European
you get domestic
AJ is world level he imo opinion has proved that against klitchko parker povetkin
would he have been world class ten or 20 yrs ago no chance due to the level of boxer in that class6 -
Better than Lennox Lewis?!nth london addick said:AJ is better than Hide better than Bruno by miles
herbie had a chance to be far greater than he got to but mentally did not have it
AJ wasn’t right last week I’d bet every penny I have that he went in to that fight when he shouldn’t have
the reason he is so keen on the rematch is he knows himself this is a freak result
I am not his biggest fan I have long believed that he is not the finished article he is easily read and he is very easy to hit
what he does have is superior strength superior speed and a mental attitude that I haven’t seen in any UK fighter in the last 5-10 years probably since Eubank himself
I certainly am no fan boy who can not accept that AJ lost
Tyson fury I said many many moons ago was going to be a contender he went far past that and had gone on to be the best heavyweight boxer this country has ever produced so far
but he isn’t the best fighter he is not the best athlete he is not the hardest hitting heavyweight I would say that AJ beats him in all three of those departments but he couldn’t lace Tyson’s gloves when it comes to boxing
you get elite level boxers
you get world level
you get European
you get domestic
AJ is world level he imo opinion has proved that against klitchko parker povetkin
would he have been world class ten or 20 yrs ago no chance due to the level of boxer in that class1 -
FishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?
Well the bookies made AJ 1/20 so that tells you that they thought the out of shape Mexican was there for the taking.cs1986 said:
Exactly not even close mateFishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?
I remember watching Harry Carpenter's history of heavyweight boxing with old newsreel from Jack Johnson in 1908 through to Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Mohammed Ali etc
and none of them fought a fighter with man boobs and carrying fat and not muscle for a world title.
Superb job by Ruiz, but normally guys with his physique are first or second fights for potential Champions.
Ruiz is a hungry fighter in more ways than one but the rags to riches story of the underdog is a great story. Another even bigger pay day awaits in November or December.
Mike Tyson v Buster Douglas was a bigger upset but not that many spring to mine.1 -
You either don't class him as British or you have completely forgotten Lennox Lewis!!nth london addick said:
Tyson fury I said many many moons ago was going to be a contender he went far past that and had gone on to be the best heavyweight boxer this country has ever produced so far
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Surely that just confirms everyone undervalued Ruiz and lumped on Joshua.soapboxsam said:FishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?
Well the bookies made AJ 1/20 so that tells you that they thought the out of shape Mexican was there for the taking.cs1986 said:
Exactly not even close mateFishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?0 -
oh pu-leaseAFKABartram said:Those that know Boxing better than me, am I off the mark comparing Joshua with Herbie Hide?
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Heavyweight is pretty poor in my opinion at the moment. Im not an expert but as a fan i just think the last few years have been bad and the top 3 or 4 fighters are hyped up. When Ruiz walked off with them belts i just thought fair play to himsoapboxsam said:FishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?
Well the bookies made AJ 1/20 so that tells you that they thought the out of shape Mexican was there for the taking.cs1986 said:
Exactly not even close mateFishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?
I remember watching Harry Carpenter's history of heavyweight boxing with old newsreel from Jack Johnson in 1908 through to Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Mohammed Ali etc
and none of them fought a fighter with man boobs and carrying fat and not muscle for a world title.
Superb job by Ruiz, but normally guys with his physique are first or second fights for potential Champions.
Ruiz is a hungry fighter in more ways than one but the rags to riches story of the underdog is a great story. Another even bigger pay day awaits in November or December.
Mike Tyson v Buster Douglas was a bigger upset but not that many spring to mine.0 -
Bookies prices are so much shorter for all England teams and English sportsmen than they should be. This is usually due to the level of money going on the English team/person and bookies trying to balance the bookies. I give you 5 bigger upsets off top of headsoapboxsam said:FishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?
Well the bookies made AJ 1/20 so that tells you that they thought the out of shape Mexican was there for the taking.cs1986 said:
Exactly not even close mateFishCostaFortune said:Again, why was this one of the biggest shocks in boxing history?
I remember watching Harry Carpenter's history of heavyweight boxing with old newsreel from Jack Johnson in 1908 through to Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Mohammed Ali etc
and none of them fought a fighter with man boobs and carrying fat and not muscle for a world title.
Superb job by Ruiz, but normally guys with his physique are first or second fights for potential Champions.
Ruiz is a hungry fighter in more ways than one but the rags to riches story of the underdog is a great story. Another even bigger pay day awaits in November or December.
Mike Tyson v Buster Douglas was a bigger upset but not that many spring to mine.
Fury beating Klitschko
Horn over Pac
Sriskaet beating Roman Gonzalez in 2017
Rahman beating Lewis
Brewster beating Klitschko
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Anyone remember Herbie being schooled by Bowe? And let's not forgot Tyson got put on his fat arse by Wilder. Can't judge him by that one moment any more than you can Lewis getting sparked by Rahman or a concussed AJ losing to Ruiz.
Let's face it, the best ever British boxers weren't heavyweights.0 -
Tyson v wilder? If u mean when Fury went there and battered him and got a draw then i dont see your point?McBobbin said:Anyone remember Herbie being schooled by Bowe? And let's not forgot Tyson got put on his fat arse by Wilder. Can't judge him by that one moment any more than you can Lewis getting sparked by Rahman or a concussed AJ losing to Ruiz.
Let's face it, the best ever British boxers weren't heavyweights.0 -
He outboxed wilder start to finish, but could easily have been knocked outorpingtonRED said:
Tyson v wilder? If u mean when Fury went there and battered him and got a draw then i dont see your point?McBobbin said:Anyone remember Herbie being schooled by Bowe? And let's not forgot Tyson got put on his fat arse by Wilder. Can't judge him by that one moment any more than you can Lewis getting sparked by Rahman or a concussed AJ losing to Ruiz.
Let's face it, the best ever British boxers weren't heavyweights.0 -
Better boxer yes without a doubt would I say he is a better heavyweight than Lennox that’s a very good questionNorth Lower Neil said:
Better than Lennox Lewis?!nth london addick said:AJ is better than Hide better than Bruno by miles
herbie had a chance to be far greater than he got to but mentally did not have it
AJ wasn’t right last week I’d bet every penny I have that he went in to that fight when he shouldn’t have
the reason he is so keen on the rematch is he knows himself this is a freak result
I am not his biggest fan I have long believed that he is not the finished article he is easily read and he is very easy to hit
what he does have is superior strength superior speed and a mental attitude that I haven’t seen in any UK fighter in the last 5-10 years probably since Eubank himself
I certainly am no fan boy who can not accept that AJ lost
Tyson fury I said many many moons ago was going to be a contender he went far past that and had gone on to be the best heavyweight boxer this country has ever produced so far
but he isn’t the best fighter he is not the best athlete he is not the hardest hitting heavyweight I would say that AJ beats him in all three of those departments but he couldn’t lace Tyson’s gloves when it comes to boxing
you get elite level boxers
you get world level
you get European
you get domestic
AJ is world level he imo opinion has proved that against klitchko parker povetkin
would he have been world class ten or 20 yrs ago no chance due to the level of boxer in that class
lennox had the best jab I have seen of any heavyweight ever
but could he do what Tyson Fury can currently with his Guile and ringcraft his abilty to feint move and hit , his head movement and his control of the ring
no he couldn’t
tyson is a purist boxer the art of hitting and not getting hit ( yet he does get hit much like Ali or mayweather you can only avoid so many )
lennox was one of the best at cutting you off closing the gap and delivering an absolutely devastating punch all from behind a jab that mesmerized me god knows how his opponents felt
but that’s the difference between an elite boxer and an elite fighter both Tyson and Lennox are elite brilliant British heavyweights but only one is an elite Boxer in my humble opinion
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So what is your point?McBobbin said:
He outboxed wilder start to finish, but could easily have been knocked outorpingtonRED said:
Tyson v wilder? If u mean when Fury went there and battered him and got a draw then i dont see your point?McBobbin said:Anyone remember Herbie being schooled by Bowe? And let's not forgot Tyson got put on his fat arse by Wilder. Can't judge him by that one moment any more than you can Lewis getting sparked by Rahman or a concussed AJ losing to Ruiz.
Let's face it, the best ever British boxers weren't heavyweights.0 -
elcafc said:
You either don't class him as British or you have completely forgotten Lennox Lewis!!nth london addick said:
Tyson fury I said many many moons ago was going to be a contender he went far past that and had gone on to be the best heavyweight boxer this country has ever produced so far
No far far from it I consider Lennox as British and I rate him as a fighter I put him in my top 5 of all time recently on here his jab is in my top 3 of best ever punches if you can teach that jab you’ll have a contender on your hands instantly
I just don’t see him as a boxer in style sorry if that wasn’t clear he is a fighter and an elite one1 -
Nothing in particular. But I don't think this loss for AJ is what is going to define his career, assuming he was concussed before he got in the ring (assuming no long term damage). Other British heavyweights have lost or have been put down and come back from itorpingtonRED said:
So what is your point?McBobbin said:
He outboxed wilder start to finish, but could easily have been knocked outorpingtonRED said:
Tyson v wilder? If u mean when Fury went there and battered him and got a draw then i dont see your point?McBobbin said:Anyone remember Herbie being schooled by Bowe? And let's not forgot Tyson got put on his fat arse by Wilder. Can't judge him by that one moment any more than you can Lewis getting sparked by Rahman or a concussed AJ losing to Ruiz.
Let's face it, the best ever British boxers weren't heavyweights.
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Sorry didnt mean to sound aggresive if i did. AJ has been hyped up as was Haye and proven to be not that great. Wilder is another one i think is hyped up with all his bullshit face masks. Tyson was the only one not hyped up so had to create his own hype and came out with silly comments.McBobbin said:
Nothing in particular. But I don't think this loss for AJ is what is going to define his career, assuming he was concussed before he got in the ring (assuming no long term damage). Other British heavyweights have lost or have been put down and come back from itorpingtonRED said:
So what is your point?McBobbin said:
He outboxed wilder start to finish, but could easily have been knocked outorpingtonRED said:
Tyson v wilder? If u mean when Fury went there and battered him and got a draw then i dont see your point?McBobbin said:Anyone remember Herbie being schooled by Bowe? And let's not forgot Tyson got put on his fat arse by Wilder. Can't judge him by that one moment any more than you can Lewis getting sparked by Rahman or a concussed AJ losing to Ruiz.
Let's face it, the best ever British boxers weren't heavyweights.0 -
Didn't take it as aggressive at all mate. Easy to see through the hype though, not many live up to it. AJ, Fury, Wilder all decent (Wilder can't box but can hit) bit need to face each other otherwise it's all hot airorpingtonRED said:
Sorry didnt mean to sound aggresive if i did. AJ has been hyped up as was Haye and proven to be not that great. Wilder is another one i think is hyped up with all his bullshit face masks. Tyson was the only one not hyped up so had to create his own hype and came out with silly comments.McBobbin said:
Nothing in particular. But I don't think this loss for AJ is what is going to define his career, assuming he was concussed before he got in the ring (assuming no long term damage). Other British heavyweights have lost or have been put down and come back from itorpingtonRED said:
So what is your point?McBobbin said:
He outboxed wilder start to finish, but could easily have been knocked outorpingtonRED said:
Tyson v wilder? If u mean when Fury went there and battered him and got a draw then i dont see your point?McBobbin said:Anyone remember Herbie being schooled by Bowe? And let's not forgot Tyson got put on his fat arse by Wilder. Can't judge him by that one moment any more than you can Lewis getting sparked by Rahman or a concussed AJ losing to Ruiz.
Let's face it, the best ever British boxers weren't heavyweights.0 -
I realise it was a long time ago but the biggest shock of all time was surely when Max Schmeling beat Joe Louis.0
