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Charlton v Brentford | Sat 24 Aug | 3pm KO | POST-MATCH THREAD

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  • Why did Taylor play the second half with a shirt without a name or number?
    Auditioning for the lead role in a remake of Spaghetti westerns which Clint Eastwood previously starred in 😉.
  • Why did Taylor play the second half with a shirt without a name or number?
    He was being so closely marked in the first half they decided to change his shirt to one with no name so the defenders wouldn’t know which one he was 
    The ref queried the lack of a number before the second half kick off and Taylor pointed to the number on his shorts.
  • Likely to have ripped or maybe sweaty as our twitter trolls.
  • JamesSeed said:
    Where was Naby? We surrendered possession for most of the match, and it was the complete opposite of the first forty five minutes v. Forest. 

    Yes, bodies were put on the line, and it was a valiant defensive performance, but we were very lucky to get anything from the game. The heat definitely didn’t help, and we generally looked a little lethargic. I’m assuming Otzumer wasn’t ready to play again, but a player like that who’s great in tight areas, would have been useful. 
    Brentford's back four were superb.  
    I agree with this. In the first half, before Deji went off, we had a very awkward triangle between Pratley, Pearce and Purrington, none of whom can really pass the ball.  Don’t get me wrong, Pratley and Pearce were really superb defensively but it’s a conundrum for Bowyer - I don’t think Sarr could have defended as well as Pearce did but he adds so much to the attacking side of the game.  For me, certainly at home, Field plays instead of Pratley in midfield and Oztumer is a certain starter . It will be interesting to see how he gets him and Williams into the same side as The latter is a definite pick, IMO. 

    Delighted with the win anyway- we’ve got a lot to be really pleased about .
  • Redrobo said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    Great battling performance even if we were a tad lucky.

    The management team need a bloody medal, Gallagher is a quality player, can't believe he is only 19 and hasn't played 'mens' football. Lockyer is another great find.

    It's very early days, but i've got a good feeling about this season, maybe not quite like last, but with performances like the first few weeks we shouldn't be troubling the bottom 4!
    As Seve Ballesteros once said, “the more I practice, the luckier I am”.

    I cant remember us being lucky over much today, in fact I thought the ref didn’t give us much today and 50/50s seemed to go there way. Even clear headers out of play they ended up getting the throw. The work ethic won us the game, not luck.
    Seve may have said it but he didn't make it up.  It's credited to Jerry Barber in 1962 in golf terms but appears a year earlier in the book The Devil to Pay.
  • edited August 2019
    Celtic  never used to wear numbers on their shirts until instructed to do so by the Scottish FA in the 94/95 season. Only other explanation is Taylor had to change his original one which was blood stained although they must have had numbered spares 😮. The mystery rumbles on.
  • Fantastic performance. Every one said after Wednesday that we have to take our chances as there will be games when we won’t have as many - well to take your one chance in a game and win is pretty clinical.

    we certainly didn’t reach the dizzy heights of Wednesday’s attacking display, but nobody seems to mention all the injuries today. Deji had to go off early to be replaced by a midfielder, Williams replaced at half time which I presume was precautionary or just that he was exhausted from all his great work. Then add about three or four head injuries from head clashes and balls in the face. Yet still the boys threw everything in the way of Brentford. So despite a lot of disruption, we scored with one chance and made our own luck to win.

    i would say there was one piece of luck. First half at a corner Pratley dragged down a Brentford player with his arms around the players neck and got away with it. As a rugby referee, if I had seen that in a rugby match I would have considered a red card/ penalty try, and should have been a penalty. But who cares !!

    Finally - how good was George Lapslie today, to come on out of position and play so confidently. Well done to him. Looked like a young Chris Solly.
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  • edited August 2019
    I think the heat stopped us playing our normal game, but it was about defending well and sometimes, to be honest, desperately. Brentford definitely deserved something, probably everything, but they did lack that quality up front which explains why they were so desperate to bring Taylor in.

    Our goal was a great finish from the lad and another Williams assist! Also, Taylor was a centimetre or two away from doubling our lead at the start of the second. Philips flapped at a couple but did make two excellent saves. It is probably confidence from the run we have had, but we seem to know how to win, or at least how to get through a game and not lose, in all situations. Long may that continue.

    You can't fault the defence, who were superb. I thought we missed Naby starting the moves off a bit. It can be like having another player, especially at home, but he may not have defended as well as Lockyer or Pearce. 
  • Fabulous performance in its way, there really aren't too many teams who would have the mentality and concentration to win like that; hugely impressive.
    A nerve-wracking but exciting way to win!
    Only real criticism was I felt in the second half we rather ran out of ideas of how to get the ball up the pitch. Neither playing it from the back or knocking it long was working, and there did not seem to be any other pattern of play to fall back on.
    That said, we are clearly still learning and getting up to speed with the mental and physical requirements of the Championship, so a brilliant result.
  • edited August 2019
    Brentford huffed and puffed at a brick wall on a very hot day. From a football perspective Brentford looked far the better team because they were the ones running around a lot in 30 degree heat while charlton sat back and picked them off as they attacked, scoring a goal when their defence went to sleep and repeatedly thwarting their attempts to score. 3 points to the smarter side. Had it been a cooler day it would have been a much different match but with the same outcome.
  • "I thought we missed Naby starting the moves off a bit. It can be like having another player, especially at home, but he may not have defended as well as Lockyer or Pearce. "

    I'm going to do this every week, or as long as this narrative persists, but Sarr is just as good at defending as the other two. He tackles, positions, clears and outmuscles to a very high standard; he also fights. Quite often I see our other defenders described as warriors or warlords or henchmen or whatever but Sarr is equally fierce - just because he plays further up the pitch and can pass a ball doesn't mean he can't scrap. In the Forest game, sure, Lockyer made a brilliant saving tackle, but then a few seconds later the ball broke to their player wide open about 16 yards from goal, whereupon Lord Naby ran across and dived into a massive full-stretch saving block. I saw not a single mention of this on here either at the time or after the game. The rest of his performance was imperious too and he didn't give Forest a sniff. So I'll say it every week: we won't know what we're missing until he's gone. Either to the Premiership or Ligue 1. 
  • RedChaser said:
    Celtic  never used to wear numbers on their shirts until instructed to do so by the Scottish FA in the 94/95 season. Only other explanation is Taylor had to change his original one which was blood stained although they must have had numbered spares 😮. The mystery rumbles on.

    Dont we have a club shop that puts names & numbers on shirts....I believe it is only yards away too.
  • It is significant for me that we have reached 11 points, simply because that is the overall total I feared we might get for the season, at the start of this month. What Bowyer has done so late in the day only confirms my belief that he is special.
  • Leuth said:
    "I thought we missed Naby starting the moves off a bit. It can be like having another player, especially at home, but he may not have defended as well as Lockyer or Pearce. "

    I'm going to do this every week, or as long as this narrative persists, but Sarr is just as good at defending as the other two. He tackles, positions, clears and outmuscles to a very high standard; he also fights. Quite often I see our other defenders described as warriors or warlords or henchmen or whatever but Sarr is equally fierce - just because he plays further up the pitch and can pass a ball doesn't mean he can't scrap. In the Forest game, sure, Lockyer made a brilliant saving tackle, but then a few seconds later the ball broke to their player wide open about 16 yards from goal, whereupon Lord Naby ran across and dived into a massive full-stretch saving block. I saw not a single mention of this on here either at the time or after the game. The rest of his performance was imperious too and he didn't give Forest a sniff. So I'll say it every week: we won't know what we're missing until he's gone. Either to the Premiership or Ligue 1. 
    I trust Bowyer’s judgement more than yours. He evidently trusts Pearce more in games in which we are going to have less possession.






  • Uboat said:
    Two games in four days. Deserved to win one and lose one. Got four points, so we're up on the deal. 
    My thoughts too. 

    Nine wins and six draws away from safety by my reckoning...  
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  • edited August 2019
    Watched from hotel room on i follow:

    A great result but concerning performance. Takes me back to the Pardew era, however that’s probably quite unfair as there are significant differences.

    Pardew’s ineptitude eventually left our team with nonstop backs to the wall performances which inevitably took its toll on the squad.

    The differences between then and now as highlighted by others already are many, but conditions and midweek game are the same for everyone.

    The real differences between us and other teams in my view: fitness from some having not much pre season, a lot of new players - many untested at this level - budget, may all come home to roost but hopefully our excellent manager can prevent that. On the plus side we have great character and togetherness. 

    If we can ride our luck and maintain momentum and perhaps most importantly keep morale high until the above are resolved as much as they can be then we should be OK.
  • Only thing that worries me today is we'll face teams MUCH better than Brentford

    People on here have said that they'd be second the way they played (If they had a Striker) yet they had a Striker last season and only finished 11th

    Based on last season they're effectively the second hardest team we've faced so far

    We will face teams who have the Strikers to hurt us, just hope that we'll have the luck this season, or we'll face them when we've had a fresh week rather than quick turn around like today


    We'll definitely face teams who finish chances better than Brentford (currently we finish chances better than Brentford) but I'm not sure we'll face many who dominate possession as much as they do. Their possession stats are always very high.

    I do think that there will be games where luck won't be on our side and we will have to chase the game a bit. That could be hard. But who knows....yesterday might end up being one of our worst performances of the season, in terms of football played & chances created? Let's hope so!

  • wmcf123 said:
    Leuth said:
    "I thought we missed Naby starting the moves off a bit. It can be like having another player, especially at home, but he may not have defended as well as Lockyer or Pearce. "

    I'm going to do this every week, or as long as this narrative persists, but Sarr is just as good at defending as the other two. He tackles, positions, clears and outmuscles to a very high standard; he also fights. Quite often I see our other defenders described as warriors or warlords or henchmen or whatever but Sarr is equally fierce - just because he plays further up the pitch and can pass a ball doesn't mean he can't scrap. In the Forest game, sure, Lockyer made a brilliant saving tackle, but then a few seconds later the ball broke to their player wide open about 16 yards from goal, whereupon Lord Naby ran across and dived into a massive full-stretch saving block. I saw not a single mention of this on here either at the time or after the game. The rest of his performance was imperious too and he didn't give Forest a sniff. So I'll say it every week: we won't know what we're missing until he's gone. Either to the Premiership or Ligue 1. 
    I trust Bowyer’s judgement more than yours. He evidently trusts Pearce more in games in which we are going to have less possession.






    The Naby or Jason question is very much about are we taking the game to the opposition or are we defending for our life.
    Pearce had a great Second half But those of you with poor memories, he was shaky at times in the first half and the understanding with keeper and fellow defenders wasn't great. With no Naby, Oztumer and with Leko going from Usain Bolt to a tortoise with no energy the dynamics from the first half  against Forest had disappeared in the 30 degree heat.
    Jason Pearce is a fantastic Captain and is still needed.  Lee Bowyer will decide the horse's for courses.

    Both the Nabster and Jason will be the partner for the gifted Lockyer who despite only being 5ft 11 have been so impressive in League games so far.

    All our defenders will make mistakes this season, similar to every other defender in the Championship ! The difference is who ever is picked have each others back.
    There is a great team spirit, and we have Plan A, B and C this Season.

    We don't have a preferred starting 11 this season. We have at least 18 players who can come in and do a job. 

    Young Leko is our 8 or 4 out of 10 player but I guess using him from the bench in future could be a better option when he is back to full energy and pace.

    The marvelous window is coming to fruition.
    Support who ever is picked by Lee Bowyer.

  • Simonsen said:
    Only thing that worries me today is we'll face teams MUCH better than Brentford

    People on here have said that they'd be second the way they played (If they had a Striker) yet they had a Striker last season and only finished 11th

    Based on last season they're effectively the second hardest team we've faced so far

    We will face teams who have the Strikers to hurt us, just hope that we'll have the luck this season, or we'll face them when we've had a fresh week rather than quick turn around like today


    We'll definitely face teams who finish chances better than Brentford (currently we finish chances better than Brentford) but I'm not sure we'll face many who dominate possession as much as they do. Their possession stats are always very high.

    I do think that there will be games where luck won't be on our side and we will have to chase the game a bit. That could be hard. But who knows....yesterday might end up being one of our worst performances of the season, in terms of football played & chances created? Let's hope so!

    I certainly wonder what our tactics would have been had Oshilaja not come off... Wonder if Oztumer coming on may have seen us control the play better
  • Sarr vs Pearce, the new Wagstaff vs Green

    But which one has the nicest house?
  • edited August 2019
    razil said:
    Watched from hotel room on i follow:

    A great result but concerning performance. Takes me back to the Pardew era, however that’s probably quite unfair as there are significant differences.

    Pardew’s ineptitude eventually left our team with nonstop backs to the wall performances which inevitably took its toll on the squad.

    The differences between then and now as highlighted by others already are many, but conditions and midweek game are the same for everyone.

    The real differences between us and other teams in my view: fitness from some having not much pre season, a lot of new players - many untested at this level - budget, may all come home to roost but hopefully our excellent manager can prevent that. On the plus side we have great character and togetherness. 

    If we can ride our luck and maintain momentum and perhaps most importantly keep morale high until the above are resolved as much as they can be then we should be OK.
    I understand what you are saying, but I have watched football long enough not to be too concerned about the performance in an isolated game. You touched on a mitigating factor yourself. A penalty for bringing in so many players so late should be a slow start. We haven't done that. Against a Forest side that won away at Fulham yesterday, we played some terrific football on Wednesday night. Many have said it was the best they can remember seeing us play.

    You wouldn't have picked up on it from your hotel room, but it was like a sauna out there yesterday. Our high energy pressing game was just not possible in those conditions. Yes, it was the same for both sides, but we have seen enough to expect that we are not going to be outplayed every game. And then we can look again, and note that we got another three points.

    My expectations are that as we get fitter and we will soon be in cooler conditions, we are going to get better. The squad is deep  enough unless there is a crisis. We have the quality. We can score goals and some people were worried about the defence before yesterday. We also have the best manager in the Championship. Nothing to worry about here...........until January!
  • edited August 2019
     
    I agree with this. In the first half, before Deji went off, we had a very awkward triangle between Pratley, Pearce and Purrington, none of whom can really pass the ball.  Don’t get me wrong, Pratley and Pearce were really superb defensively but it’s a conundrum for Bowyer - I don’t think Sarr could have defended as well as Pearce did but he adds so much to the attacking side of the game.  For me, certainly at home, Field plays instead of Pratley in midfield and Oztumer is a certain starter . It will be interesting to see how he gets him and Williams into the same side as The latter is a definite pick, IMO. 

    Delighted with the win anyway- we’ve got a lot to be really pleased about .


    William could play wide left (as he did for a lot of the Stoke game) and Oztumer could play behind Taylor in a 4-3-3. You'd probably see a lot of movement and interchanging with Williams drifting inside to pick up passes, leaving space for Purrington to move up outside on the left. That's the great things with good players....they don't stick to positions whilst in possession.

    Or maybe, given Williams injury history, he'll be rested for some games and Oztumer will play behind Taylor and Hemed in a diamond. Or Oztumer plays wide because like Williams, he is really adaptable. All decent, viable options. But a few injuries and the team will pick itself.


  • wmcf123 said:
    Leuth said:
    "I thought we missed Naby starting the moves off a bit. It can be like having another player, especially at home, but he may not have defended as well as Lockyer or Pearce. "

    I'm going to do this every week, or as long as this narrative persists, but Sarr is just as good at defending as the other two. He tackles, positions, clears and outmuscles to a very high standard; he also fights. Quite often I see our other defenders described as warriors or warlords or henchmen or whatever but Sarr is equally fierce - just because he plays further up the pitch and can pass a ball doesn't mean he can't scrap. In the Forest game, sure, Lockyer made a brilliant saving tackle, but then a few seconds later the ball broke to their player wide open about 16 yards from goal, whereupon Lord Naby ran across and dived into a massive full-stretch saving block. I saw not a single mention of this on here either at the time or after the game. The rest of his performance was imperious too and he didn't give Forest a sniff. So I'll say it every week: we won't know what we're missing until he's gone. Either to the Premiership or Ligue 1. 
    I trust Bowyer’s judgement more than yours. He evidently trusts Pearce more in games in which we are going to have less possession.






    The Naby or Jason question is very much about are we taking the game to the opposition or are we defending for our life.
    Pearce had a great Second half But those of you with poor memories, he was shaky at times in the first half and the understanding with keeper and fellow defenders wasn't great. With no Naby, Oztumer and with Leko going from Usain Bolt to a tortoise with no energy the dynamics from the first half  against Forest had disappeared in the 30 degree heat.
    Jason Pearce is a fantastic Captain and is still needed.  Lee Bowyer will decide the horse's for courses.

    Both the Nabster and Jason will be the partner for the gifted Lockyer who despite only being 5ft 11 have been so impressive in League games so far.

    All our defenders will make mistakes this season, similar to every other defender in the Championship ! The difference is who ever is picked have each others back.
    There is a great team spirit, and we have Plan A, B and C this Season.

    We don't have a preferred starting 11 this season. We have at least 18 players who can come in and do a job. 

    Young Leko is our 8 or 4 out of 10 player but I guess using him from the bench in future could be a better option when he is back to full energy and pace.

    The marvelous window is coming to fruition.
    Support who ever is picked by Lee Bowyer.

    Its a fascinating debate and its a mark of the man that everyone just seems to be saying ... trust in lee bowyer.

    One obsevation, naby wouldnt have looked quite so comfortable on the ball as he did versus Forest if he had played today instead of Pearce. Totally different set ups, forest put on zero pressure, our goal on weds was embarrassing from their point of view. So the two games in quick succession give a real interesting view. Two different opponents and Lee probably has his biggest tactical choice as it is so impactful on how we keep possession playing from defence - Pearce V Sarr.

    Forest v Sarr - we played possession football and didn't hurry or rush out of defence. They were dropping deeper but no press at all on Sarr as he demonstrated he could pick it apart with his passing. 

    Brentford v Pearce - 5 decent brentford midfielders keeping the ball nicely. We never got going and the game was played in our half.  No possession in defence but nothing Pearce or Lockyer could do about that.

    4 points from both is simply magnificent.

    We have earnt these 11 points, no question about that. Need to temper optimisim with realism but it is quite clear we are going to compete. That wasnt a given in July and was impossible if Lee hadnt of stayed.

    I've not seen a Charlton side work harder against a class footballing outfit since Curbs. It is going to be awesome in training this week after earning a result like that, great for team spirit.
  • edited August 2019
    I agree. You never know, but we really do have a manager we ought to just trust. God forbid any of us was doing his job. I suspect we would not be doing that well! At home where you are going to be on the front foot, Naby does give the team a lot. In possession, it is like having an extra man. But it is horses for courses. Bowyer also has to think about the opposition, injuries, and rotation means it will be easier to fit players in. He won't always get it right, but I back him to get it right more often than anybody else.
  • wmcf123 said:
    Leuth said:
    "I thought we missed Naby starting the moves off a bit. It can be like having another player, especially at home, but he may not have defended as well as Lockyer or Pearce. "

    I'm going to do this every week, or as long as this narrative persists, but Sarr is just as good at defending as the other two. He tackles, positions, clears and outmuscles to a very high standard; he also fights. Quite often I see our other defenders described as warriors or warlords or henchmen or whatever but Sarr is equally fierce - just because he plays further up the pitch and can pass a ball doesn't mean he can't scrap. In the Forest game, sure, Lockyer made a brilliant saving tackle, but then a few seconds later the ball broke to their player wide open about 16 yards from goal, whereupon Lord Naby ran across and dived into a massive full-stretch saving block. I saw not a single mention of this on here either at the time or after the game. The rest of his performance was imperious too and he didn't give Forest a sniff. So I'll say it every week: we won't know what we're missing until he's gone. Either to the Premiership or Ligue 1. 
    I trust Bowyer’s judgement more than yours. He evidently trusts Pearce more in games in which we are going to have less possession.






    The Naby or Jason question is very much about are we taking the game to the opposition or are we defending for our life.
    Pearce had a great Second half But those of you with poor memories, he was shaky at times in the first half and the understanding with keeper and fellow defenders wasn't great. With no Naby, Oztumer and with Leko going from Usain Bolt to a tortoise with no energy the dynamics from the first half  against Forest had disappeared in the 30 degree heat.
    Jason Pearce is a fantastic Captain and is still needed.  Lee Bowyer will decide the horse's for courses.

    Both the Nabster and Jason will be the partner for the gifted Lockyer who despite only being 5ft 11 have been so impressive in League games so far.

    All our defenders will make mistakes this season, similar to every other defender in the Championship ! The difference is who ever is picked have each others back.
    There is a great team spirit, and we have Plan A, B and C this Season.

    We don't have a preferred starting 11 this season. We have at least 18 players who can come in and do a job. 

    Young Leko is our 8 or 4 out of 10 player but I guess using him from the bench in future could be a better option when he is back to full energy and pace.

    The marvelous window is coming to fruition.
    Support who ever is picked by Lee Bowyer.

    Its a fascinating debate and its a mark of the man that everyone just seems to be saying ... trust in lee bowyer.

    One obsevation, naby wouldnt have looked quite so comfortable on the ball as he did versus Forest if he had played today instead of Pearce. Totally different set ups, forest put on zero pressure, our goal on weds was embarrassing from their point of view. So the two games in quick succession give a real interesting view. Two different opponents and Lee probably has his biggest tactical choice as it is so impactful on how we keep possession playing from defence - Pearce V Sarr.

    Forest v Sarr - we played possession football and didn't hurry or rush out of defence. They were dropping deeper but no press at all on Sarr as he demonstrated he could pick it apart with his passing. 

    Brentford v Pearce - 5 decent brentford midfielders keeping the ball nicely. We never got going and the game was played in our half.  No possession in defence but nothing Pearce or Lockyer could do about that.

    4 points from both is simply magnificent.

    We have earnt these 11 points, no question about that. Need to temper optimisim with realism but it is quite clear we are going to compete. That wasnt a given in July and was impossible if Lee hadnt of stayed.

    I've not seen a Charlton side work harder against a class footballing outfit since Curbs. It is going to be awesome in training this week after earning a result like that, great for team spirit.
    Excellent point, Sarr is clearly more of a "footballer" than Pearce but it's easy to stroll around like Ferdinand at his pomp when you've got all the time you want, which is what Forest gave us in the first half (but not in the second half incidentally when we passed from the back far less) .

    Brentford pressed for the whole game and gave our defenders no time or space to pick a pass, indeed I imagine they watched us on Wednesday and made sure we couldn't. I was really impressed with their fitness, pressing for the whole game was really impressive in that weather.
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