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ESI: Thoughts so far?

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  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,145
    Dazzler21 said:
    ElfsborgAddick said:
    lancashire lad said:
    these are facts not hysterical ignorance

    ESi has been involved in the take-over since August 2019 - this means that they should know quite a lot about how the club is run and what is needed even if they couldn't actually do anything until after the takeover

    ESi originally stated that they had purchased the Valley only for us to ascertain later that the Valley and Sparrow Lane are still owned by RD

    ESi stated at takeover that a priority was to conclude  a new contract for LB- this has not been completed

    It is not fair to mention player purchases or loans as the window is still open but the above inconsistencies do seriously concern me. With RD's inability to communicate the PR efforts by ESi seem to be a breath of fresh air, or is it just hot air?



    Great post.

    Supporters questioning fans' criticism of ESI cannot argue it has not been a good start and they have made mistakes.

    We need to hope that we stay up, Bowyer starts next season at The Valley, ESI meet their "obligation" and own The Valley and Sparrows Lane outright by June.  Only time will tell.

    We need to be patient, let's see where we are in December this year.
    Fudge that. Let's see where we are on 1st July.
    After the 5 years 
  • carly burn
    carly burn Posts: 19,458
    edited January 2020
    Maybe Nimer sees the ex director loans as a form of supporter investment?
    They are to my knowledge all fans after all?

    He possibly doesn't want to rock the boat by paying them up and may feel he is offending the fans by effectively taking away some control?
  • Rob7Lee
    Rob7Lee Posts: 9,594
    Airman Brown said:
    Rob7Lee said:
    @cabbles time will tell.

    I think the Valley ownership has concerned many (partly at least as ESI stated they owned the Valley). But that may be semantics. The holding company owned/owns the freehold land upon which the valley itself is built, so if they have say been given a 100 year lease then much like flat ownership you'd say you r it. In hindsight and knowing the importance of the Valley especially to those of us of a certain age they could have been clearer but I don't think they would have potentially tried to mislead supporters.

    I'll be more comfortable when filing has happened at Companies house as currently it still shows as RD/Staprix owning the lot (Baton, FC & Holdings). Ditto when the freehold has been bought.

    The footballing side will take longer to play out, there's no way they've bought us to be relegated, but equally I don't think there is a pot of gold to throw around. Let's just hope contracts are signed soon for the management, a few players come in through the door and our injury lists shortens. With 5/6 key players back and a couple in i think we'll be fine. All assuming no one of importance leaves of course!

    We may hopefully also hear more after Fridays meet and greet with supporters groups.

    We should be cautious, but also optimistic, after 5 years of RD/KM it's hard to get out of that suspicious mindset, but as they say times a good healer.

    Up the addicks! 
    The comparison with the lease of a flat doesn’t work for me. If you entered into such a lease the consideration would be comparable to the freehold  cost - so there is no reason you would do it unless, as is the case with flats, you can’t easily buy the freehold. It certainly would not stand up the “due diligence” explanation.

    More to the point the ex-directors’ charges prevent the granting of new leases without their permission. That hasn’t happened so my assumption is that the pre-existing lease remains in place.



    I agree it's not quite like the same as a flat, but if they have bought the footballing company that holds the lease improvements to the Valley it's reasonable (to me) that it wasn't an outright lie that 'we own the valley' or a deliberate intention to mislead.

    In all likelihood then their current total investment (on purchase) is £1, although there is still no filings for the Football Club on companies house which does surprise me.

    Hopefully more will be revealed on Friday as to exactly what has been purchased by ESI and a bit more about the Valley/SL deal.

  • Dazzler21
    Dazzler21 Posts: 51,344
    carly burn said:
    Maybe Nimer sees the ex director loans as a form of supporter investment?
    They are to my knowledge all fans after all?

    He possibly doesn't want to rock the boat by paying them up and may feel he is offending the fans by effectively taking away some control?
    That's quite the assumption.
  • Lincsaddick
    Lincsaddick Posts: 32,348
    is ESI just a figment of its own imagination ? .. an entity that has nothing and has bought nothing ? ((:>)
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,347
    edited January 2020
    Am I missing something because I don't get why the loans keep getting brought up... They were repayable on Charlton re-entering the Premier League, which hasn't happened, so why would they be repaid?
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    Chunes said:
    Am I missing something because I don't get why the loans keep getting brought up... They were repayable on Charlton re-entering the Premier League, which hasn't happened, so why would they be repaid?
    To obtain a clear title at the outset so that any lenders or investors have the comfort of unencumbered property / land.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,220
    Chunes said:
    Am I missing something because I don't get why the loans keep getting brought up... They were repayable on Charlton re-entering the Premier League, which hasn't happened, so why would they be repaid?
    Or when the Valley is sold as they have a charge on the ground IIRC.

    At previous sales the directors have agreed to roll over the bonds but some maybe less willing to do so now.

    They have to be consulted on any leases as they have a charge on the Valley.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    edited January 2020
    The charges that are registered at Companies House IIRC are Debentures which would usually attach all fixed and floating assets unless deeds of postponement  have been signed or letters of priority.
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    stoneroses19 said:
    charltonbob said:
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Brown59 said:
    Oh dear here we go again. We will end up panic buying on the 31st like we always do with sub standard players. The fact is you have to pay over the odds to get players in now its that  simple. Looks like we're still trying to get players on the cheap even with money men behind us. Until LB signs players will not commit. 
    Whats the problem with his contract. 2 weeks it's been on offer!  I have big concerns over ESI. 
    Post worthy of its own thread, surely.
    Starting to get very concerned about the time Bowyer's contact us taking to sort out. They want him, he wants to stay. What's the problem????????
    The bright new future doesn't seem so bright anymore. A multi billionaire takes over the club, doesn't buy The Valley or SL, can't/won't give LB a contract that he wants to sign & transfer wise seems to be operating under the Belgians budget. What's going on, no wonder there's been people casting doubt over ESI ever since it was announced.
    Where did you read our owner is a multi-billionaire? 
    At the time of the takeover I read that he was worth 15 Billion. Where did I read it ? Haven't the faintest idea as I was reading absolutely anything I could find about the takeover.
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  • Alwaysneil
    Alwaysneil Posts: 13,806
    charltonbob said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    charltonbob said:
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Brown59 said:
    Oh dear here we go again. We will end up panic buying on the 31st like we always do with sub standard players. The fact is you have to pay over the odds to get players in now its that  simple. Looks like we're still trying to get players on the cheap even with money men behind us. Until LB signs players will not commit. 
    Whats the problem with his contract. 2 weeks it's been on offer!  I have big concerns over ESI. 
    Post worthy of its own thread, surely.
    Starting to get very concerned about the time Bowyer's contact us taking to sort out. They want him, he wants to stay. What's the problem????????
    The bright new future doesn't seem so bright anymore. A multi billionaire takes over the club, doesn't buy The Valley or SL, can't/won't give LB a contract that he wants to sign & transfer wise seems to be operating under the Belgians budget. What's going on, no wonder there's been people casting doubt over ESI ever since it was announced.
    Where did you read our owner is a multi-billionaire? 
    At the time of the takeover I read that he was worth 15 Billion. Where did I read it ? Haven't the faintest idea as I was reading absolutely anything I could find about the takeover.
    I think that the Royal Family that HE Tahoon Nimer runs the family office of (recently rebranded to the personal office of Tahoon Nimer) is worth around $15bn estimated. 

    However, HE Nimer himself has less personal funds. What is unknown and will remain unknown imo is what level of backing will be given by whom and when. 
  • jacob_CAFC
    jacob_CAFC Posts: 2,063
    Bedwetting sheets are quite cheap on Amazon!
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    Alwaysneil said:
    charltonbob said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    charltonbob said:
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Brown59 said:
    Oh dear here we go again. We will end up panic buying on the 31st like we always do with sub standard players. The fact is you have to pay over the odds to get players in now its that  simple. Looks like we're still trying to get players on the cheap even with money men behind us. Until LB signs players will not commit. 
    Whats the problem with his contract. 2 weeks it's been on offer!  I have big concerns over ESI. 
    Post worthy of its own thread, surely.
    Starting to get very concerned about the time Bowyer's contact us taking to sort out. They want him, he wants to stay. What's the problem????????
    The bright new future doesn't seem so bright anymore. A multi billionaire takes over the club, doesn't buy The Valley or SL, can't/won't give LB a contract that he wants to sign & transfer wise seems to be operating under the Belgians budget. What's going on, no wonder there's been people casting doubt over ESI ever since it was announced.
    Where did you read our owner is a multi-billionaire? 
    At the time of the takeover I read that he was worth 15 Billion. Where did I read it ? Haven't the faintest idea as I was reading absolutely anything I could find about the takeover.
    I think that the Royal Family that HE Tahoon Nimer runs the family office of (recently rebranded to the personal office of Tahoon Nimer) is worth around $15bn estimated. 

    However, HE Nimer himself has less personal funds. What is unknown and will remain unknown imo is what level of backing will be given by whom and when. 
    Maybe I misread the quote ....... if that's the case ESI out !!! :-)
  • Covered End
    Covered End Posts: 51,990
    charltonbob said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    charltonbob said:
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Brown59 said:
    Oh dear here we go again. We will end up panic buying on the 31st like we always do with sub standard players. The fact is you have to pay over the odds to get players in now its that  simple. Looks like we're still trying to get players on the cheap even with money men behind us. Until LB signs players will not commit. 
    Whats the problem with his contract. 2 weeks it's been on offer!  I have big concerns over ESI. 
    Post worthy of its own thread, surely.
    Starting to get very concerned about the time Bowyer's contact us taking to sort out. They want him, he wants to stay. What's the problem????????
    The bright new future doesn't seem so bright anymore. A multi billionaire takes over the club, doesn't buy The Valley or SL, can't/won't give LB a contract that he wants to sign & transfer wise seems to be operating under the Belgians budget. What's going on, no wonder there's been people casting doubt over ESI ever since it was announced.
    Where did you read our owner is a multi-billionaire? 
    At the time of the takeover I read that he was worth 15 Billion. Where did I read it ? Haven't the faintest idea as I was reading absolutely anything I could find about the takeover.
    Probably why you're so negative, if your views are based on wrong information.
  • ElfsborgAddick
    ElfsborgAddick Posts: 29,031
    Covered End said:
    charltonbob said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    charltonbob said:
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Brown59 said:
    Oh dear here we go again. We will end up panic buying on the 31st like we always do with sub standard players. The fact is you have to pay over the odds to get players in now its that  simple. Looks like we're still trying to get players on the cheap even with money men behind us. Until LB signs players will not commit. 
    Whats the problem with his contract. 2 weeks it's been on offer!  I have big concerns over ESI. 
    Post worthy of its own thread, surely.
    Starting to get very concerned about the time Bowyer's contact us taking to sort out. They want him, he wants to stay. What's the problem????????
    The bright new future doesn't seem so bright anymore. A multi billionaire takes over the club, doesn't buy The Valley or SL, can't/won't give LB a contract that he wants to sign & transfer wise seems to be operating under the Belgians budget. What's going on, no wonder there's been people casting doubt over ESI ever since it was announced.
    Where did you read our owner is a multi-billionaire? 
    At the time of the takeover I read that he was worth 15 Billion. Where did I read it ? Haven't the faintest idea as I was reading absolutely anything I could find about the takeover.
    Probably why you're so negative, if your views are based on wrong information.
    He's related to @clb74
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    Covered End said:
    charltonbob said:
    stoneroses19 said:
    charltonbob said:
    The Prince-e-Paul said:
    Henry Irving said:
    Brown59 said:
    Oh dear here we go again. We will end up panic buying on the 31st like we always do with sub standard players. The fact is you have to pay over the odds to get players in now its that  simple. Looks like we're still trying to get players on the cheap even with money men behind us. Until LB signs players will not commit. 
    Whats the problem with his contract. 2 weeks it's been on offer!  I have big concerns over ESI. 
    Post worthy of its own thread, surely.
    Starting to get very concerned about the time Bowyer's contact us taking to sort out. They want him, he wants to stay. What's the problem????????
    The bright new future doesn't seem so bright anymore. A multi billionaire takes over the club, doesn't buy The Valley or SL, can't/won't give LB a contract that he wants to sign & transfer wise seems to be operating under the Belgians budget. What's going on, no wonder there's been people casting doubt over ESI ever since it was announced.
    Where did you read our owner is a multi-billionaire? 
    At the time of the takeover I read that he was worth 15 Billion. Where did I read it ? Haven't the faintest idea as I was reading absolutely anything I could find about the takeover.
    Probably why you're so negative, if your views are based on wrong information.
    Negative ? Me ?

    Takeover announced & the Chairman is quoted the No.1 priority is to get LB & LT signed up to long term contracts.

    Chairman quoted that LB contract will be dealt with after the Transfer window. LT rejects contract offer & one well connected person on here describes the offer as very low.

    After LB comments in the press about wanting contract sorted by the weekend the Chairman announces during interview that a 5 year deal has been sent to LB that morning. What that 5 year deal amounts to we don't know but it's still sitting there unsigned with various reasons given.

    In interview the chairman states that there will be marquee signings to ensure that we remain in the Championship, time & games are slipping by & we have 1 win in 16. It's unlikely that quality championship players will join a club heading for relegation. So  we're looking at decent League one players but can't/won't offer the wages so where next L2 ? National league south ?

    In interview the chairman states that ESI own the club & the Valley with an obligation to purchase SL within 6 months. A week down the line we're hearing that we don't own the Valley at all but there is the obligation to buy within the next 6 months.

    Negative ? Certainly very concerned, something doesn't sit right as far as I can see.  
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    Again, maybe things don't sit right as you keep making things up.
  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    Again, maybe things don't sit right as you keep making things up.
    What have I made up ?
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    "states that there will be marquee signings to ensure that we remain in the Championship"

    For a start, that isn't what was said.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    "So  we're looking at decent League one players but can't/won't offer the wages "


    Totally made up.
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  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    "So  we're looking at decent League one players but can't/won't offer the wages "


    Totally made up.
    Maddison ? SLP report that club & player are far apart over terms.

  • charltonbob
    charltonbob Posts: 8,254
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    "states that there will be marquee signings to ensure that we remain in the Championship"

    For a start, that isn't what was said.
    So what was said ?
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,347
    edited January 2020
    Henry Irving said:
    Chunes said:
    Am I missing something because I don't get why the loans keep getting brought up... They were repayable on Charlton re-entering the Premier League, which hasn't happened, so why would they be repaid?
    Or when the Valley is sold as they have a charge on the ground IIRC.

    At previous sales the directors have agreed to roll over the bonds but some maybe less willing to do so now.

    They have to be consulted on any leases as they have a charge on the Valley.
    I see. So what's the issue? Have directors said there's a problem? The Valley hasn't been sold... There is a lease, and if they have to be consulted then I assume they have been, or else they're entitled to take legal action
  • PragueAddick
    PragueAddick Posts: 22,144
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    "states that there will be marquee signings to ensure that we remain in the Championship"

    For a start, that isn't what was said.
    He definitely used the phrase "marquee signings". I remember wincing when I heard it.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    charltonbob said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    "So  we're looking at decent League one players but can't/won't offer the wages "


    Totally made up.
    Maddison ? SLP report that club & player are far apart over terms.

    Terms that made not be wages at all, as I said, you've made it up to suit your negative viewpoint.

    charltonbob said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    "states that there will be marquee signings to ensure that we remain in the Championship"

    For a start, that isn't what was said.
    So what was said ?
    Go double check, you'll see it wasn't what you claimed.
  • RedChaser
    RedChaser Posts: 19,885
    PragueAddick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    "states that there will be marquee signings to ensure that we remain in the Championship"

    For a start, that isn't what was said.
    He definitely used the phrase "marquee signings". I remember wincing when I heard it.
    He did Prague but it is the context in which it was said and the reference to Shearer at Newcastle IIRC.
  • Stu_of_Kunming
    Stu_of_Kunming Posts: 17,117
    PragueAddick said:
    Stu_of_Kunming said:
    "states that there will be marquee signings to ensure that we remain in the Championship"

    For a start, that isn't what was said.
    He definitely used the phrase "marquee signings". I remember wincing when I heard it.
    But he didn't say theyd necessarily be made during this window, which is whst Bob is claiming.

    That's generally how people get away with misquoting, get it close enough to the truth and hope no one notices.
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,347
    edited January 2020
    I remember him saying "There will be marquee signings." The Shearer talk was re: having one player that does lives outside of the wage model.
  • Henry Irving
    Henry Irving Posts: 85,220
    My understanding was that MS said that they would have a wage structure but would break it for a marquee signing/s.

    Shearer at Newcastle was cited as an example of this, presumably because Bowyer was there at the same time and had mentioned it.

    No timeframe was given for when such marquee signings would be made. There was no promise of marquee signings this window.
  • jacob_CAFC
    jacob_CAFC Posts: 2,063
    Henry Irving said:
    My understanding was that MS said that they would have a wage structure but would break it for a marquee signing/s.

    Shearer at Newcastle was cited as an example of this, presumably because Bowyer was there at the same time and had mentioned it.

    No timeframe was given for when such marquee signings would be made. There was no promise of marquee signings this window.

    This is exactly how i took it as well

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