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Barnsley threatening EFL ahead of Disciplinary action for Wednesday, Derby & Birmingham
Comments
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It doesn’tChris_from_Sidcup said:
That'd be the biggest deduction ever.Cafc43v3r said:
20 points for the "fraudulent accounting" plus 12 points for the original FFP breach that the "accounting" avoided?MuttleyCAFC said:I would be surprised if this was the case. The EFL won't give a points deduction and carry the balance over. When has that ever happened? They could automatically relegate 2 divisions if they felt that was appropriate. I suspect the issue would be more to do with the precedent caused by only giving Brum a 9 point deduction last season. Brum fully co-operated at the time, but then didn't do what they promisedin the January window. I think the EFL want to punish Wednesday harder for not taking the punishment on the chin, as an example, but they have created their own mess through inconsistent punishments.
If the 1st doesn't relegate you, the second one will!
How does what Wednesday have done compare to Luton when they were deducted 30 points?
EFL savagely fucked over Luton’s then new owners, Nick Owen among them, chiefly for the sins of previous regime. Luton Town won the paint pot trophy the same season EFL’s victimisation relegated them to the conference. Classic case of shithouse cowardly bullying of a defenceless victim. EFL subsequently tuned up the OADT which has gone well0 -
The penalty for breaching the £39M 3 year aggregate losses IS written down.killerandflash said:
It's still a punishment though. Give Forest a 12 point deduction and they could miss the playoffs. They could have made it stricter I suppose - automatic relegation OR a 12 point deduction if you would have been relegated anyway, but that might be considered too harshOggy Red said:
Fair enough, Killer - thanks for making that clear.killerandflash said:
No. There are 3 alternativesOggy Red said:
Administration carries a penalty of 12 points deduction.ross1 said:I do not like seeing clubs in financial problems, and do not know how many points Wigan will be penalised, 8, 10 or 12, which will help our position, providing it is this season, but I hope they get it sorted out and can carry on playing.
Just noticed a Wigan thread so will add it over there
If applied immediately, Wigan would now be bottom with 38 points ....... 4 points behind safety with 6 games to play.
On current form, they would have every chance of safety.
But the double whammy is that should they escape relegation, they start next season in the Championship on minus 12 points.
1) they finish 12 points or better above the bottom 3, get the deduction and stay up
2) they finish less than 12 points above the bottom 3, get the deduction and go down to L1
3) they finish in the bottom 3 before any deduction, and start next season in L1 on -12
One thing I've never understood ..... a 12 point deduction, that doesn't relegate the guilty team (or deny a club promotion), is no penalty at all.
What point is there in giving out a penalty that effectively doesn't punish a club?
The difference between Wednesday and Wigan is that the former is a unique situation where the rule book doesn't say what the punishment is, whereas for administration the 12 point deduction is the set punishment0 -
Brum folded like a pack of cards at home to Terriers. Millwall of the midlands indeed wankers all3
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I found this helped a bit on understanding.
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https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/news/sheffield-wednesday-efl-case-punishment-18553208
they reckon the EFL are poised to make a ruling... well, probably but who knows.
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Will the efl bottle it and make any points issue carry over to next season? I have a feeling they might but several teams won't be happy.0
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Wish it were otherwise, but I just cannot see the EFL relegating a club the size of Wednesday; they would not have the nerve. I expect a deduction to be found that will be seen as significant, but not be enough to actually do anything.
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Wednesday win tonight | Hull lose tonight and they're 10-pts from the relegation zoneSteveKielyCambridge said:Wish it were otherwise, but I just cannot see the EFL relegating a club the size of Wednesday; they would not have the nerve. I expect a deduction to be found that will be seen as significant, but not be enough to actually do anything.
Perfect time to give them a 9 point deduction (mirrors what Birmingham got), doesnt relegate them does it2 -
Should relegation or at least 20 points IMO.peterreeves said:Will the efl bottle it and make any points issue carry over to next season? I have a feeling they might but several teams won't be happy.Over valued the ground
Fiddled the date of purchase by a company that did not even exist when the payment was made.
Numerous false companies set up to ‘sponsor’ the club.
Cheating in any sport is disgraceful. This has been a deliberate and sustained cheating on a massive scale.13 -
Maybe automatic relegation is appropriate7
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If Wednesday are found guilty the minimum punishment would have to be whatever they would have been punished for the FFP breach plus additional sanctions for deliberately trying to cover it up.The penalty for the latter should be greater than the FFP penalty.4
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More likely to be automatically promoted for creative thinkingHardyAddick said:Maybe automatic relegation is appropriate8 -
Don't forget, this is being heard by a three man independent panel. They will decide the punishment which will be based on the EFLs own scale of punishment for misdemeanours.
I think they'll be lucky to get away with a 12 point penalty. If they're given 21 point deduction or automatically relegated, it could be the saving grace for Wigan.1 -
I suspect they don't do this as an insurance policy against having to relegate too many clubs. It never looks good, but it would be really awkward for The League if they had to relegate four or more clubs from any division in a year. How would they manage that? And with the number of feckless, incompetent chancers that they are allowing into football that is increasingly becoming a real possibility.ShootersHillGuru said:
But why bother with a points deduction when the intention is to unequivocally relegate them ?Cafc43v3r said:
Has anyone, in modern times, just been relegated? Even Luton had to play on with punative deductions.ShootersHillGuru said:Why not just relegate them ?
Of course, this begs another question: If clubs get punished for the bad luck of being taken over by dodgy owners, but it is the EFL's job to police the ownership of the clubs, why aren't the league punished in some way every time they allow some semi-criminal gang to leech off of our game?8 -
If they don’t want to automatically relegate them, the answer is easy, you set a precedent that any cheating of this form gets a hefty points deduction which will effectively relegate Wednesday this season without actually relegating them automatically.
Anything more than an -16 is a fairer deduction and will put them on the verge of relegation.
It will help deter clubs from doing this kind of thing in future if there is to be a significant points deduction.
Fail to do this, and they’re setting a very dangerous precedent going forward where more and more clubs will decide they can deliberately cheat and know they can get away with it.
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I have a feeling they’ll get away with a small enough deduction that keeps them away from the bottom 3.Sage said:If they don’t want to automatically relegate them, the answer is easy, you set a precedent that any cheating of this form gets a hefty points deduction which will effectively relegate Wednesday this season without actually relegating them automatically.
Anything more than an -16 is a fairer deduction and will put them on the verge of relegation.
It will help deter clubs from doing this kind of thing in future if there is to be a significant points deduction.
Fail to do this, and they’re setting a very dangerous precedent going forward where more and more clubs will decide they can deliberately cheat and know they can get away with it.Also, there’s already a precedent where clubs can deliberately cheat and get away with it. We’ve seen many clubs get promoted from crossing ffp by a mile, and they never get punished. But I know what you mean, that if they get away with it, more teams will try this selling of ground to themselves idea.2 -
The EFL effectively see a club as part of the Premier League the moment they win promotion so act in a way as though the club is already under a different governing bodystoneroses19 said:
I have a feeling they’ll get away with a small enough deduction that keeps them away from the bottom 3.Sage said:If they don’t want to automatically relegate them, the answer is easy, you set a precedent that any cheating of this form gets a hefty points deduction which will effectively relegate Wednesday this season without actually relegating them automatically.
Anything more than an -16 is a fairer deduction and will put them on the verge of relegation.
It will help deter clubs from doing this kind of thing in future if there is to be a significant points deduction.
Fail to do this, and they’re setting a very dangerous precedent going forward where more and more clubs will decide they can deliberately cheat and know they can get away with it.Also, there’s already a precedent where clubs can deliberately cheat and get away with it. We’ve seen many clubs get promoted from crossing ffp by a mile, and they never get punished. But I know what you mean, that if they get away with it, more teams will try this selling of ground to themselves idea.2 -
Yup agreed, it’s not right though. Apart from QPR I cant think of another team that’s been punished upon relegation back to championship either. Presumably Villa are in trouble if they get relegated as they spent 175% of turnover last season on wages alone.ForeverAddickted said:
The EFL effectively see a club as part of the Premier League the moment they win promotion so act in a way as though the club is already under a different governing bodystoneroses19 said:
I have a feeling they’ll get away with a small enough deduction that keeps them away from the bottom 3.Sage said:If they don’t want to automatically relegate them, the answer is easy, you set a precedent that any cheating of this form gets a hefty points deduction which will effectively relegate Wednesday this season without actually relegating them automatically.
Anything more than an -16 is a fairer deduction and will put them on the verge of relegation.
It will help deter clubs from doing this kind of thing in future if there is to be a significant points deduction.
Fail to do this, and they’re setting a very dangerous precedent going forward where more and more clubs will decide they can deliberately cheat and know they can get away with it.Also, there’s already a precedent where clubs can deliberately cheat and get away with it. We’ve seen many clubs get promoted from crossing ffp by a mile, and they never get punished. But I know what you mean, that if they get away with it, more teams will try this selling of ground to themselves idea.3 -
Isnt that how QPR got in trouble with the EFL and got the transfer embargo etc.?stoneroses19 said:
Yup agreed, it’s not right though. Apart from QPR I cant think of another team that’s been punished upon relegation back to championship either. Presumably Villa are in trouble if they get relegated as they spent 175% of turnover last season on wages alone.ForeverAddickted said:
The EFL effectively see a club as part of the Premier League the moment they win promotion so act in a way as though the club is already under a different governing bodystoneroses19 said:
I have a feeling they’ll get away with a small enough deduction that keeps them away from the bottom 3.Sage said:If they don’t want to automatically relegate them, the answer is easy, you set a precedent that any cheating of this form gets a hefty points deduction which will effectively relegate Wednesday this season without actually relegating them automatically.
Anything more than an -16 is a fairer deduction and will put them on the verge of relegation.
It will help deter clubs from doing this kind of thing in future if there is to be a significant points deduction.
Fail to do this, and they’re setting a very dangerous precedent going forward where more and more clubs will decide they can deliberately cheat and know they can get away with it.Also, there’s already a precedent where clubs can deliberately cheat and get away with it. We’ve seen many clubs get promoted from crossing ffp by a mile, and they never get punished. But I know what you mean, that if they get away with it, more teams will try this selling of ground to themselves idea.
E.g. Because they came back down they effectively became under the EFL's control again who remembered the rules they'd broken?0 -
Massive jokes aside, Wednesday are hardly one of the giants of the Championship, it's 20 years since they were last in the PLSteveKielyCambridge said:Wish it were otherwise, but I just cannot see the EFL relegating a club the size of Wednesday; they would not have the nerve. I expect a deduction to be found that will be seen as significant, but not be enough to actually do anything.1 -
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Yes it was exactly that, and more teams should have this happen to them on relegation. Issue is that some who have breached ffp have ended up staying in premier league, so they get away with cheating.ForeverAddickted said:
Isnt that how QPR got in trouble with the EFL and got the transfer embargo etc.?stoneroses19 said:
Yup agreed, it’s not right though. Apart from QPR I cant think of another team that’s been punished upon relegation back to championship either. Presumably Villa are in trouble if they get relegated as they spent 175% of turnover last season on wages alone.ForeverAddickted said:
The EFL effectively see a club as part of the Premier League the moment they win promotion so act in a way as though the club is already under a different governing bodystoneroses19 said:
I have a feeling they’ll get away with a small enough deduction that keeps them away from the bottom 3.Sage said:If they don’t want to automatically relegate them, the answer is easy, you set a precedent that any cheating of this form gets a hefty points deduction which will effectively relegate Wednesday this season without actually relegating them automatically.
Anything more than an -16 is a fairer deduction and will put them on the verge of relegation.
It will help deter clubs from doing this kind of thing in future if there is to be a significant points deduction.
Fail to do this, and they’re setting a very dangerous precedent going forward where more and more clubs will decide they can deliberately cheat and know they can get away with it.Also, there’s already a precedent where clubs can deliberately cheat and get away with it. We’ve seen many clubs get promoted from crossing ffp by a mile, and they never get punished. But I know what you mean, that if they get away with it, more teams will try this selling of ground to themselves idea.
E.g. Because they came back down they effectively became under the EFL's control again who remembered the rules they'd broken?3 -
Not giants they are massivekillerandflash said:
Massive jokes aside, Wednesday are hardly one of the giants of the Championship, it's 20 years since they were last in the PLSteveKielyCambridge said:Wish it were otherwise, but I just cannot see the EFL relegating a club the size of Wednesday; they would not have the nerve. I expect a deduction to be found that will be seen as significant, but not be enough to actually do anything.1 -
Bournemouth will also be in trouble if they get relegated.stoneroses19 said:
Yup agreed, it’s not right though. Apart from QPR I cant think of another team that’s been punished upon relegation back to championship either. Presumably Villa are in trouble if they get relegated as they spent 175% of turnover last season on wages alone.ForeverAddickted said:
The EFL effectively see a club as part of the Premier League the moment they win promotion so act in a way as though the club is already under a different governing bodystoneroses19 said:
I have a feeling they’ll get away with a small enough deduction that keeps them away from the bottom 3.Sage said:If they don’t want to automatically relegate them, the answer is easy, you set a precedent that any cheating of this form gets a hefty points deduction which will effectively relegate Wednesday this season without actually relegating them automatically.
Anything more than an -16 is a fairer deduction and will put them on the verge of relegation.
It will help deter clubs from doing this kind of thing in future if there is to be a significant points deduction.
Fail to do this, and they’re setting a very dangerous precedent going forward where more and more clubs will decide they can deliberately cheat and know they can get away with it.Also, there’s already a precedent where clubs can deliberately cheat and get away with it. We’ve seen many clubs get promoted from crossing ffp by a mile, and they never get punished. But I know what you mean, that if they get away with it, more teams will try this selling of ground to themselves idea.3 -
Remember the EFL where quite happy to ensure both Leeds and Southampton were in league 1 for a minimum of 2 seasons.killerandflash said:
Massive jokes aside, Wednesday are hardly one of the giants of the Championship, it's 20 years since they were last in the PLSteveKielyCambridge said:Wish it were otherwise, but I just cannot see the EFL relegating a club the size of Wednesday; they would not have the nerve. I expect a deduction to be found that will be seen as significant, but not be enough to actually do anything.0 -
One would hope so. 15 point deduction and welcome back card.Addickted said:
Bournemouth will also be in trouble if they get relegated.stoneroses19 said:
Yup agreed, it’s not right though. Apart from QPR I cant think of another team that’s been punished upon relegation back to championship either. Presumably Villa are in trouble if they get relegated as they spent 175% of turnover last season on wages alone.ForeverAddickted said:
The EFL effectively see a club as part of the Premier League the moment they win promotion so act in a way as though the club is already under a different governing bodystoneroses19 said:
I have a feeling they’ll get away with a small enough deduction that keeps them away from the bottom 3.Sage said:If they don’t want to automatically relegate them, the answer is easy, you set a precedent that any cheating of this form gets a hefty points deduction which will effectively relegate Wednesday this season without actually relegating them automatically.
Anything more than an -16 is a fairer deduction and will put them on the verge of relegation.
It will help deter clubs from doing this kind of thing in future if there is to be a significant points deduction.
Fail to do this, and they’re setting a very dangerous precedent going forward where more and more clubs will decide they can deliberately cheat and know they can get away with it.Also, there’s already a precedent where clubs can deliberately cheat and get away with it. We’ve seen many clubs get promoted from crossing ffp by a mile, and they never get punished. But I know what you mean, that if they get away with it, more teams will try this selling of ground to themselves idea.0 -
Sorry for being lazy
are Wednesday in trouble for putting money in to the club ?
have they laden the club with more debt ?
to me if owners want to burn cash on their own club without putting said club in to debt then I think they should be allowed to2 -
Owner sold their ground to himself for a figure (60m).oohaahmortimer said:Sorry for being lazy
are Wednesday in trouble for putting money in to the club ?
have they laden the club with more debt ?
to me if owners want to burn cash on their own club without putting said club in to debt then I think they should be allowed to
Then put the figure into the 17-18 accounting year, when the ground was sold a year later. This obviously just so happened to be the year they overspent and would've been in trouble with FFP. It meant they made a 2.5m pre-tax profit that year instead of a 50m+ loss.
Pretty blatant financial misconduct. I'd love to know how they're even arguing this case and why it's dragging on so long.2 -
So did the owner cover the loss with his moody accounting or just cook the books and load them up with more debt ..
obviously they’ve broken current rules and should be punished but to me if it’s mad stupidity of an owner gifting a club dough then it should be allowed , the racking up of debt is a no no0 -
Needless to say that after last nights defeat, Owlstalk are a bit negative. This post made me laugh:
We'll be deducted 9 points, or 12, or whatever.
Instantaneously, there'll be a statement on the club website decrying how ridiculous the decision is.
We've put in an appeal.
End up getting relegated.
Appeal drags on. Fixtures for new season come out.
Appeal rejected.
Appeal to Court of Arbitration for Sport. No players signing because we don't know what division we're in.
Appeal rejected.
Appeal to Court for Human Rights and so on and blah blah blah.
Appeal rejected.
Teetering on the brink of League 2 before accepting we've fucked up.
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True though. The same with Wigan, they need to accept it or the above could become realityChris_from_Sidcup said:Needless to say that after last nights defeat, Owlstalk are a bit negative. This post made me laugh:We'll be deducted 9 points, or 12, or whatever.
Instantaneously, there'll be a statement on the club website decrying how ridiculous the decision is.
We've put in an appeal.
End up getting relegated.
Appeal drags on. Fixtures for new season come out.
Appeal rejected.
Appeal to Court of Arbitration for Sport. No players signing because we don't know what division we're in.
Appeal rejected.
Appeal to Court for Human Rights and so on and blah blah blah.
Appeal rejected.
Teetering on the brink of League 2 before accepting we've fucked up.
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