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Why are so many people not wearing face masks?
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I bet the kids under the terror of bombing raids in WWII and modern day Syria who endured gas masks as bombs rained down on them didn't piss and moan as much as the "anti mask muzzle" brigade being asked to wear a bit of cloth for 20 minutes on a train or in Sainsburys.
Fucking pathetic.20 -
"Why are so many people not wearing face masks?"
Two words: Dominic Cummings.6 -
Yet again...ME14addick said:
@Stonemuse I apologise if my words have offended you, but I still don't see how not stopping the spread of Covid is going to help those mentioned in your previous posts.stonemuse said:
Please don’t put words in my mouth ... that’s a deplorable thing to do. Not going to bother discussing with you if that’s how you want to behave.ME14addick said:stonemuse said:Over 40k Covid-related deaths in the UK is horrific.But as a result of a focussed Covid approach which has left many treatments in abeyance, or means people are scared to get treatment, non-Covid deaths are likely to be exponentially higher. And if Covid receives primary support again in the Winter, it will be far worse.This is not me saying this ... read senior consultants and surgeons all over the internet, NHS and private ... they are very worried.As I said, it’s a horrible choice, but there will need to be a choice as to where the NHS concentrates its focus ... it cannot do both.A few years ago I had bowel cancer and went through many months of treatment including radiotherapy for a number of weeks. I only recently had the full all-clear which is wonderful. However, if my problem had been this year, there is a distinct possibility I would not have been so lucky ... and many people are going through this now.My wife’s mammogram was delayed by six months ... she finally had it done a couple of weeks and is all clear ... but the six month delay could have caused problems and will no doubt do so for some. My sister-in-law has metastatic breast cancer. Her treatment has fortunately only been minimally impacted, but she knows of quite a number of others whose treatment has been severely impacted which will result in an earlier death.There are hundreds of thousands of such stories around. Covid cannot be our prime focus over the coming months as it was earlier in the year.The awful fact is that we face a decision on how many people will die ... my belief is that non-Covid issues must now take priority.I understand why others may think differently, but as I said before, this is not a zero risk scenario.
Are you suggesting that Covid patients should just be allowed to die?
By taking measures to stop the further spread of Covid, we will have a better chance of treating both Covid and non Covid patients.I said we have no choice but to find a balance. Whichever approach is taken will lead to many deaths, but we are not capable of covering everything, no country is. Decisions need to be made on how we can save the most lives.Stopping the further spread of Covid does little to help those I mentioned in my previous posts ... and these now far outnumber those at risk of being hospitalised by Covid.You have really pissed me off with your insinuation I want to leave people to die. My son was seriously ill with Covid in March ... so you are on my ‘ignore’ mode from now on.
If we let Covid run its own course, it will do nothing to help them as the hospitals will become filled with Covid patients again and all other treatments will be affected.
I am full aware of the effects on cancer patients of not getting the treatment they need, but to suggest that we ignore the spread of Covid, will not achieve the outcome you desire.
Stonemuse wasn't suggesting what you've written above. In previous posts he said:
...if we concentrate again primarily on Covid.
Other treatments for other ailments are taking place, albeit on a smaller scale than we would all like, but they might have to stop if Covid gets out of hand again.
None of this 'suggests' that we ignore Covid, he was, as he made clear, talking about establishing some sort of balance. You're scared and I feel sorry for you, but you do yourself no favours when you attribute unsubstantiated meaning to Stonemuse's posts to suit your own agenda.
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Quite a few people I have politely challenged reminded I have put their masks on. I do 'risk assess' before I say anything though!LenGlover said:As stated above not all disabilities are visible or physical and interfering busybodies can exacerbate them as the challenge in itself causes further stress to an already challenging situation.
In a free country the presumption should be innocence until proven guilty whatever the interfering busybody's personal prejudices as to the 'type' of person not wearing a mask.
To draw a parallel what would be the reaction to someone asserting every Asian carrying a rucksack on public transport is a terrorist?
They would be accused of bigotry yet there is no intellectual difference between that prejudice and the prejudice expressed countless times throughout this thread against those who do not wear masks for whatever reason.3 -
@Redskin please see my post at 9.32 am today, I was the one who said:Redskin said:
Yet again...ME14addick said:
@Stonemuse I apologise if my words have offended you, but I still don't see how not stopping the spread of Covid is going to help those mentioned in your previous posts.stonemuse said:
Please don’t put words in my mouth ... that’s a deplorable thing to do. Not going to bother discussing with you if that’s how you want to behave.ME14addick said:stonemuse said:Over 40k Covid-related deaths in the UK is horrific.But as a result of a focussed Covid approach which has left many treatments in abeyance, or means people are scared to get treatment, non-Covid deaths are likely to be exponentially higher. And if Covid receives primary support again in the Winter, it will be far worse.This is not me saying this ... read senior consultants and surgeons all over the internet, NHS and private ... they are very worried.As I said, it’s a horrible choice, but there will need to be a choice as to where the NHS concentrates its focus ... it cannot do both.A few years ago I had bowel cancer and went through many months of treatment including radiotherapy for a number of weeks. I only recently had the full all-clear which is wonderful. However, if my problem had been this year, there is a distinct possibility I would not have been so lucky ... and many people are going through this now.My wife’s mammogram was delayed by six months ... she finally had it done a couple of weeks and is all clear ... but the six month delay could have caused problems and will no doubt do so for some. My sister-in-law has metastatic breast cancer. Her treatment has fortunately only been minimally impacted, but she knows of quite a number of others whose treatment has been severely impacted which will result in an earlier death.There are hundreds of thousands of such stories around. Covid cannot be our prime focus over the coming months as it was earlier in the year.The awful fact is that we face a decision on how many people will die ... my belief is that non-Covid issues must now take priority.I understand why others may think differently, but as I said before, this is not a zero risk scenario.
Are you suggesting that Covid patients should just be allowed to die?
By taking measures to stop the further spread of Covid, we will have a better chance of treating both Covid and non Covid patients.I said we have no choice but to find a balance. Whichever approach is taken will lead to many deaths, but we are not capable of covering everything, no country is. Decisions need to be made on how we can save the most lives.Stopping the further spread of Covid does little to help those I mentioned in my previous posts ... and these now far outnumber those at risk of being hospitalised by Covid.You have really pissed me off with your insinuation I want to leave people to die. My son was seriously ill with Covid in March ... so you are on my ‘ignore’ mode from now on.
If we let Covid run its own course, it will do nothing to help them as the hospitals will become filled with Covid patients again and all other treatments will be affected.
I am full aware of the effects on cancer patients of not getting the treatment they need, but to suggest that we ignore the spread of Covid, will not achieve the outcome you desire.
Stonemuse wasn't suggesting what you've written above. In previous posts he said:
...if we concentrate again primarily on Covid.
Other treatments for other ailments are taking place, albeit on a smaller scale than we would all like, but they might have to stop if Covid gets out of hand again.
None of this 'suggests' that we ignore Covid, he was, as he made clear, talking about establishing some sort of balance. You're scared and I feel sorry for you, but you do yourself no favours when you attribute unsubstantiated meaning to Stonemuse's posts to suit your own agenda.
'Other treatments for other ailments are taking place, albeit on a smaller scale than we would all like, but they might have to stop if Covid gets out of hand again.
It was not Stonemuse that said it.
Yes, I am scared that the virus will get out of hand again, because there are too many people who won't wear masks, don't socially distance or follow the rules.
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If people are not wearing masks because of him then they are even more stupid than I initially thoughtAddicksAddict said:"Why are so many people not wearing face masks?"
Two words: Dominic Cummings.8 -
My mistake, but the the point still stands. Stonemuse wasn't suggesting we 'ignore' Covid.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/face-masks-could-giving-people-covid-19-immunity-researchers/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr
Face masks help trigger immune system response to covid-19 helping increase chance of immunity because they reduce concentration of Covid inhaled.0 -
I'm sure an awful lot of the surprisingly large amount of people sauntering around Bluewater the other day without masks haven't the first idea of who Dominic Cummings is. They're just selfish and will increase the attitude of "if they're not wearing one and not being stopped then why should I".WSS said:
If people are not wearing masks because of him then they are even more stupid than I initially thoughtAddicksAddict said:"Why are so many people not wearing face masks?"
Two words: Dominic Cummings.10 -
The shopping centre staff should be policing this. Mask not on, please leave the premises. It is simple.0
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The Security staff, yes. The shop assistants, no. They get enough abuse as it is.MrOneLung said:The shopping centre staff should be policing this. Mask not on, please leave the premises. It is simple.4 -
you just need one staff member on the door to say no you can’t come in.0
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Baldybonce said:
The Security staff, yes. The shop assistants, no. They get enough abuse as it is.MrOneLung said:The shopping centre staff should be policing this. Mask not on, please leave the premises. It is simple.
"Over 75% of shop workers surveyed by the shopworkers union Usdaw last month reported being abused by customers when asking them to socially distance; almost half had experienced abuse triggered by reminding shoppers to wear face masks..."
But it's not all bad news, most of us are complying.
"In its most recent dataset, the Office of National Statistics reports that 96% of adults claim to have worn a face covering at least once in the week up to 30 August. Most people appear to be following the rules."
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The security guard at Sainsbury's Orpington high street wanders around the shop without a mask.
He can hardly challenge customers for not wearing one when he doesn't himself.8 -
In one of my posts on this thread I mentioned shop staff wearing the mask under the chin. It was the security chap standing on the door of primark. Would love to see him challenge people to put their mask on.1
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The abuse of shop workers is horrible, but sadly not surprising. There's a small but significant number of scummy people who are completely selfish and unreasonable. I don't know what we can do to get them out of our club to make them change their ways.Bournemouth Addick said:Baldybonce said:
The Security staff, yes. The shop assistants, no. They get enough abuse as it is.MrOneLung said:The shopping centre staff should be policing this. Mask not on, please leave the premises. It is simple.
"Over 75% of shop workers surveyed by the shopworkers union Usdaw last month reported being abused by customers when asking them to socially distance; almost half had experienced abuse triggered by reminding shoppers to wear face masks..."
But it's not all bad news, most of us are complying.
"In its most recent dataset, the Office of National Statistics reports that 96% of adults claim to have worn a face covering at least once in the week up to 30 August. Most people appear to be following the rules."
On the final point, I'm not convinced that you can draw the conclusion "Most people appear to be following the rules" from the ONS data, quoted. Self reporting is always a tricky method, especially where there's a clear demand in the situation to report 'yes'. Also, "at least once in the week" is a massive caveat. There may, for example, be people wore a mask when then took their mum shopping, but didn't at any other time. Or people who wore a mask properly when they went through a ticket barrier only to have it dangle round their neck whilst on the train. The best we can say from the information in the quoted text is that non-compliance is at least 4%, but may be more. I've not counted (other than in my one shocking trip to ASDA), but from my experience I'd say that adherence is far lower than 96%. The best way of understanding how compliant we really are, would be by surveying the security footage from buses, trains and shops. I suspect that most operators would be reluctant to allow this though, as the results could put the public off of using their services.3 -
All fair points @Stig I was trying to be positive (for once 😉)
My own anecdotal experience is that 9/10 people, or more in fact, in my local shops/coffee shops, etc are compliant. Again with the caveat that I'm only staying local so can't comment on the bigger supermarkets, etc.2 -
Agreed, although if you have a "doctor's letter" you should be permitted.MrOneLung said:you just need one staff member on the door to say no you can’t come in.2 -
Sat at Euston at the mo awaiting a train to Scotland. I’d say 50% have invisible ailments making it impossible for them to wear a face covering.3
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Guy on my train on Friday politely asked two ladies to to put their masks back on Whilst on the train (they got on wearing them and took them off for a chat)
one of them claimed that they were both exempt and the other called him a racist because he wasn’t telling anyone else what to do (everyone else on the carriage was wearing a mask)
He told them they were a pair of selfish c***s and changed carriages.10 - Sponsored links:
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That could be an issue for security staff. Due to Data Protection laws now, its not going to be possible to verify each person entering premises without a face covering is exempt. Its a bit tricky, and invasive, to start questioning and cross checking personal info of each customer.Covered End said:
Agreed, although if you have a "doctor's letter" you should be permitted.MrOneLung said:you just need one staff member on the door to say no you can’t come in.
Its not like door security refusing entry to a nightclub if you are wearing trainers. This is completly different and impossible for the retail security industry to enforce.
I wish i knew the answer but i dont.0 -
Surely the simple solution is every store implements track and trace. Take name and number for each store visitor. If they're not wearing a mask make a show of getting them to fill out the "not wearing a mask" form, where they have to tick the exempt box.
A big proportion of those claiming exemption won't be willing to put that down in writing, and stores really should be doing track and trace anyway.5 -
Only catching up and as ive got to the end of the thread wanted to make a suggestion mate.killer kish said:To me it’s a mixture of health and economy and it all contradicts each other.How can you not wear a mask in pub/restaurant but have to in a shop plus the staff don’t have to wear masks in the shop and are there most of the day but customers have too.If it was all about health and nothing else staff should be wearing masks at all times and pubs/restaurants should still be closed.The ones on here saying if you can’t wear a mask stay at home clearly don’t understand mental health issues and disabilities.My Daughter has special needs,
learning difficulties,autism plus many other issues to list so am I meant to keep her locked away because she can’t wear a mask?! I’ve gone to the shops with my Daughter just to get essential shopping only since Covid started and the big change I’ve seen since masks were made mandatory is that social distancing has gone out the window for most.Because of my Daughters issues I have to go and shop with her as I’m on my own with her and have no help or other options.Plus I can’t get shopping delivered because if the front door is opened my Daughter believes we are either going out or someone is visiting and when neither happens she has a complete meltdown.So it really isn’t as easy as some of you make it out to be............Walk A Mile In My Shoes!
Contact whoever you shop with and surely you can get a delivery left on the doorstep in your circumstances? That must be a struggle and i feel for you.
If no joy, and you are local(SE London not bloody Hastings or something), id gladly assist as im sure others on here would.1 -
I think it would be simpler to have thermal imaging/ temperature check cameras. Anybody over specified temp eg 37.5 degrees will be rufused entry, and i think this will become the norm most places.randy andy said:Surely the simple solution is every store implements track and trace. Take name and number for each store visitor. I'd they're not wearing a mask make a show of getting them to fill out the "not wearing a mask" form, where they have to tick the exempt box.
A big proportion of those claiming exemption won't be willing to out that down in writing, and stores really should be doing track and trace anyway.randy andy said:Surely the simple solution is every store implements track and trace. Take name and number for each store visitor. I'd they're not wearing a mask make a show of getting them to fill out the "not wearing a mask" form, where they have to tick the exempt box.
A big proportion of those claiming exemption won't be willing to out that down in writing, and stores really should be doing track and trace anyway.
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Maybe eventually, but 2 sheets of A4 are a lot cheaper than a thermal imaging camera1
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So a person just writes down Paul Elliottttrandy andy said:Maybe eventually, but 2 sheets of A4 are a lot cheaper than a thermal imaging camera2 -
How many years have you paid home insurance and your home not burned down? What a waste of money right?LenGlover said:
I am in broad agreement with you.stonemuse said:
Please don’t put words in my mouth ... that’s a deplorable thing to do. Not going to bother discussing with you if that’s how you want to behave.ME14addick said:stonemuse said:Over 40k Covid-related deaths in the UK is horrific.But as a result of a focussed Covid approach which has left many treatments in abeyance, or means people are scared to get treatment, non-Covid deaths are likely to be exponentially higher. And if Covid receives primary support again in the Winter, it will be far worse.This is not me saying this ... read senior consultants and surgeons all over the internet, NHS and private ... they are very worried.As I said, it’s a horrible choice, but there will need to be a choice as to where the NHS concentrates its focus ... it cannot do both.A few years ago I had bowel cancer and went through many months of treatment including radiotherapy for a number of weeks. I only recently had the full all-clear which is wonderful. However, if my problem had been this year, there is a distinct possibility I would not have been so lucky ... and many people are going through this now.My wife’s mammogram was delayed by six months ... she finally had it done a couple of weeks and is all clear ... but the six month delay could have caused problems and will no doubt do so for some. My sister-in-law has metastatic breast cancer. Her treatment has fortunately only been minimally impacted, but she knows of quite a number of others whose treatment has been severely impacted which will result in an earlier death.There are hundreds of thousands of such stories around. Covid cannot be our prime focus over the coming months as it was earlier in the year.The awful fact is that we face a decision on how many people will die ... my belief is that non-Covid issues must now take priority.I understand why others may think differently, but as I said before, this is not a zero risk scenario.
Are you suggesting that Covid patients should just be allowed to die?
By taking measures to stop the further spread of Covid, we will have a better chance of treating both Covid and non Covid patients.I said we have no choice but to find a balance. Whichever approach is taken will lead to many deaths, but we are not capable of covering everything, no country is. Decisions need to be made on how we can save the most lives.Stopping the further spread of Covid does little to help those I mentioned in my previous posts ... and these now far outnumber those at risk of being hospitalised by Covid.You have really pissed me off with your insinuation I want to leave people to die. My son was seriously ill with Covid in March ... so you are on my ‘ignore’ mode from now on.
What confuses me is that there was much trumpeting of the 'Nightingale' hospitals which were built and supposed to deal with COVID-19 whilst the 'ordinary' NHS hospitals dealt with 'ordinary' demand.
Somehow, despite all the photo opportunities, that never quite happened as the Nightingale hospitals remained empty prior to being dismantled (how much money was wasted on that charade) and the National Health Service became the National COVID Service.
As I've said before this has become a Political Pandemic. There have been cock-ups on all sides and the ordinary punters are the ones that suffer. Rather like football fans suffering the punishment for the incompetence of the EFL in properly vetting owners as we know ourselves.
There is no longer, if there ever was, any public accountability from our political masters.
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On mask wearing.
Was in Blackheath yesterday, went into Shepherds and 3 people weren't wearing masks. I have barely been in an enclosed space my entire time since March apart from Ubers etc, and I just couldn't believe it.
The anger I started to feel was... Bad.
At which point I walk outside and my fiancee is saying "what the fuck is wrong with them?"
20-ish year old girl buying a bottle of wine
30ish year old girl dressed in very little, she looked at me longer than she needed to. Either I've still got it, the anger was clear in my eyes, or she was wondering why a guy was buying 2 desperados and some oats (for the ducks).
70-80ish year old man who looked vulnerable and who is forgiven my wrath. Poor chap looked like he didn't take care of himself at all and had a recent head wound on the back of his head.
On another note, I was at the Prince of Wales pond and an old chap came up to me for a chat, lovely guy, and he walked up to me, no more than a foot away, neither of us wearing a mask. He must have been 80.
Another observation, not a complaint, never seen so many young (18-35) people out and about Blackheath as I have over this weekend, ever.1 -
I also think 9/10 of non mask wearers wouldn't have the slightest clue about who Dominic Cummings is.WSS said:
If people are not wearing masks because of him then they are even more stupid than I initially thoughtAddicksAddict said:"Why are so many people not wearing face masks?"
Two words: Dominic Cummings.
Many, like me, are furious at what Dominic Cummings did, and he should have lost his job over it, but I don't think most non mask wearers I see are particularly educated, in anything, let alone politics.3 -
They have an interesting idea in Indonesia!
https://gizmodo.com/anti-maskers-forced-to-dig-graves-for-covid-19-victims-1845046526
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