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Understanding racism - only read if interested in this topic!

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  • stonemuse said:
    Hopefully nothing bring closed down here, this is a good discussion and I’m glad it’s out in the open. 

    The crap comments raised after the initial ‘problem’ post are not happening here. 
    Spot on as usual mate 
  • I prefer the definition that isn't made up by you. I'll leave it there as the discussion is being deliberately dragged off elsewhere.    
  • We all believe what we want to believe.  I'll stick with mine, thanks.
  • edited October 2020
    .
  • There may be a few who were doing that.  However, we are overlooking the biggest reason things kicked off on that thread.

    It was the day after the takeover.  What was meant to be a positive takeover thread soon came to be populated with a outrage competition.  Both sides needed to take a day off, or at the very least take it elsewhere but that clearly didn't happen.  In the end, against my better judgement, I was eventually guilty of this too; but my severe allergic reaction to over the top virtue signalling tends to do that.  The person who first posted the 'joke' buggered off pretty quickly, but the klaxon had already sounded and there was a pretty big queue to get on the outrage bus.  I just wrote it off as him being a bit of a nob, but then I'm wired differently, I suppose.

    As for definitions, there is another definition of woke that I think is quite near the mark: 'Self interested narcissism dressed up as altruism'.  Not least when so many publicly signal their virtue whilst exhibiting the behaviour of sadistic bullies towards anyone who dares question the mindless groupthink.  I don't think that happened on the thread in question, btw, but it happens on social media all the time.  Have you heard of cancelling?

    I respect those that live by the creed that they preach unto others.  Those that don't I despise more than anything.  Have you ever spoken to members of the dominant group within Momentum, for example?  They can't stop going on about how anti-racist they are and spend a lot of time making sure everyone knows it.  Change the topic of conversation to Israel, however, and it all falls apart pretty damn quickly.


    Not really sure what your stance on  racism is.

    You bring up momentum, an organisation which I despise and  of have been a vocal critic on here. 

    But what do you think about Racism?

    You quote a very psuedo intellectual definitions of woke which is really lots of right wing buzz words.

    But where do you stand on racism?


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  • Because in America, Antifa has decided that anyone to the right of Jeremy Corbyn is actually a fascist (including, for example, the left-wing, Democrat mayor of Portland) and that the entire system in America is racist and white-supremacist, including the police, and a suitable response is to burn down buildings, including, for example, the government offices in Portland, as well as killing and maiming police and other people they choose.
    Now, don't get me wrong there are plenty of people on the right in the States who I am no fan of either, but it is undeniable that the vast majority of the violence there in recent times has come from the Antifa-left, the overwhelming majority.
    In this way, I would question which side the citizens of Cable Street would be on today.

    I think this is deniable, and I'm sure plenty will deny it. However, what I want to ask is what you mean by Antifa and the Antifa-left? I'm not sure I understand what that means, from your perspective. For the sake of clarity, I'm not referring to the etymology, which I do understand.

  • Indeed @Chunes - which is why I wrote  "I'll leave it there as the discussion is being deliberately dragged off elsewhere." 


  • Chunes said:
    Perhaps this antifa conspiracy stuff should be over on the House of Commons US thread and not on a thread about understanding racism. It's a purely political argument that will get very silly very fast. 
    I'm sorry Chunes but if you're going to pretend that Antifa aren't supportive and in co-operation with the same BLM who are carrying out acts of violence on the streets of major USA cities then you are being purposely obtuse. The death of George Floyd was the spark that ignited this unrest, which I might add has not yet been given a shred of evidence to suggest the motivations were racial, yet still has since caused an estimated $1-2BILLION in damages since May, 14,000 arrests for criminal activity, 19 deaths by June, let alone all of the riots since then, 150 injuries to Minnesotan police alone with half reporting PTSD and leaving the force.
    I could go on with the figures of violence that are somehow justified by the mainstream due to them being 'socially responsible' reasons to cause utter carnage, but Antifa and BLM in relation to the unrest in USA are two sides of the same coin, make no mistake.

  • Chunes said:
    🙄

    :D
  • I will take the advice and step away to not derail an important thread, but rananegra several things that you have said are either inaccurate or very mischaracterised. If you really want me to explain my opinion over DM, I will, but you don't need to.
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  • Another good post from @Grapevine49 and yes, I have read it all.
    On the side issue about accents was it George Bernard Shaw who said 'it only takes one (Englishman?) to speak for another (Englishman) to despise him?
  • Gillis, fair point; I should have taken note of Hanlon's Razor when criticising wokery; the motivations of some will of course be benign, they do not realise that they are actually defending racism in the form of CRT.  'Blame everything on whitey' might seem like a simplistic solution to the world's problems, but is it going to get us anywhere positive?  We have already seen a tidal wave of violence as a result; it is simple incitement to racial hatred.  I believe that society must be united to to truly progress, but identity politics is in the ascendancy now and we are all to be put in boxes and prioritise what it is that separates us rather than concentrating on what unites us, which I deplore (I'm sure Grapevine put it more eloquently above).

    As for why science is disliked by the woke; I think it's because the majority of advancements and discoveries that have given us the modern world were by white men. And they're bad.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9SiRNibD14


    Not really sure what your stance on  racism is.

    You bring up momentum, an organisation which I despise and  of have been a vocal critic on here. 

    But what do you think about Racism?

    You quote a very psuedo intellectual definitions of woke which is really lots of right wing buzz words.

    But where do you stand on racism?


    Can't you read?
  • edited October 2020
    God, I cannot help but be dragged back into this! I promise I will step away.
    Your post is incredibly lucid and thought-provoking Grapevine49, but the Drew Brees case is an interesting one. He said that he was well aware that many black people in America had serious problems (indeed he does regular charity work to try and help deprived communities), he was well aware that there were high profile cases of alleged police malpractice and some of them might indeed be so, but he was also aware that the police had a hugely difficult and dangerous job to do, and that many police are killed each year so the dangers are real, also (more importantly than anything else to him) he felt that members of his family and died to defend his country's flag so he would not participate in a protest based around that flag and the national anthem.
    So, the question is: in what sense was he actually "ill informed and mistaken", as opposed to being as aware of the facts as people can reasonably be expected to be, and simply taking a different view based on those facts and his own priorities, before later being forced to recant his wrongthink?
    Also, I would certainly not say that voter suppression in America never happens, I am sure it does to all communities, but the the black community in America is the one that has the very highest percentage of voters. Far from routinely not having their voices not heard through the ballot box, Black people vote disproportionately more than anyone else in the country.



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