Harsh on Williams today

balham red said:

I was rewatching Sunderland Til I Die yesterday. Notable that when he was speaking to the psychologist they discussed how he had only performed at his best when he had a manager who encouraged him, due to his deep fear of failure. He is clearly a fragile soul.

Management is all about understanding what levers to pull for each individual. Not every person responds well to being challenged, some need an arm around the shoulder.

I'm not sure if Bowyer has the motivational dexterity to work with Johnny's type, or indeed the tactical dexterity to work with creative more free spirited maverick types.

It will be interesting to see how his relationship with Innis develops over time.

The question is how long do you give a player? JW has been at the club 2.5 years now and how many true moments of magic have we seen? Surely this is a two way street? Bow might be saying it's now your time to step up mate and give me something back!

agim said:

balham red said:

I was rewatching Sunderland Til I Die yesterday. Notable that when he was speaking to the psychologist they discussed how he had only performed at his best when he had a manager who encouraged him, due to his deep fear of failure. He is clearly a fragile soul.

Management is all about understanding what levers to pull for each individual. Not every person responds well to being challenged, some need an arm around the shoulder.

I'm not sure if Bowyer has the motivational dexterity to work with Johnny's type, or indeed the tactical dexterity to work with creative more free spirited maverick types.

It will be interesting to see how his relationship with Innis develops over time.

The question is how long do you give a player? JW has been at the club 2.5 years now and how many true moments of magic have we seen? Surely this is a two way street? Bow might be saying it's now your time to step up mate and give me something back!

I thought my anger would subside, but it is still pretty strong. Firstly, Williams is above League One level by a considerable margin. For some reason, Bowyer has got it in for him. It has been evident for a while and it looks to me like he is trying to get him to leave. Just like he did with Fosu.

From what I have seen, he can play more than he is being played. He does tire, but the way he plays is very busy. If it is clear he can leave in January, I would expect a Championship team to sign him. 

Williams starts for Wales. His coming on changed the Playoff final. 

We're taking a skillful attacking mid, who relieves pressure on our defence (as shown at the weekend) and actually carries the ball up field. He takes markers away from our strikers and gives us an outlet  We knew when we signed him that goals aren't his game. We also knew, he wasn't there to be a midfield enforcer. If you're starting both Pratley and Watson, you need a player that can actually attack a space- you already have two midfield enforcers to do the dirty work. 

Whilst I usually agree with Grapevine's posts, I find the obsession with stats from both his post and many others to be quite strange. Football is about far more than stats, as the majority of our fanbase were saying when Duchatelet and Driesen attempted to replicate Moneyball with our signings. 

For me its a simple equation, do we look better with Williams than without him? Would I rather he was starting for our opposition than us? The answer to both of those questions is no. 

charltonnick said:

The people starting to sharpen their knives for Bowyer are probably the same people who said Curbs ' had taken us as far as he could '. We have just started out on a long term club rebuild , some players won't be here next season so don't listen to any whinging from players that don't want to be here or have their own agendas 

I admit I've been a bit out of touch with the club this season, not keeping up with much more than fixtures, results and general headline news. So maybe I am missing something. But I delved into this one when I saw this thread, and saw some of the Twitter comments and such. And fuck me was it depressing. 

The more time I have spent at other clubs (non-league mainly) the more I realise that as much as every club has an identity, there really isn't much difference between many of us. What I like to think makes us different to many clubs is patience, loyalty, self-awareness, a great community aspect, a way of doing things. We started to lose that after Curbs left, and when I saw what was being said about Bowyer, my heart truly sank. I don't identify with many Charlton supporters, it seems. 

From what I can tell, he's overreacted on this one, and it's one of the few times his inexperience as a manager has drawn some attention. I hope that's all it is. We have a lot to be thankful for from that man, and it's hard to imagine there's anyone (at least realistically) that would be able to do a better job. I hope that he learns from this. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. 

WattsTheMatter said:

Williams starts for Wales. His coming on changed the Playoff final. 

We're taking a skillful attacking mid, who relieves pressure on our defence (as shown at the weekend) and actually carries the ball up field. He takes markers away from our strikers and gives us an outlet  We knew when we signed him that goals aren't his game. We also knew, he wasn't there to be a midfield enforcer. If you're starting both Pratley and Watson, you need a player that can actually attack a space- you already have two midfield enforcers to do the dirty work. 

Whilst I usually agree with Grapevine's posts, I find the obsession with stats from both his post and many others to be quite strange. Football is about far more than stats, as the majority of our fanbase were saying when Duchatelet and Driesen attempted to replicate Moneyball with our signings. 

For me its a simple equation, do we look better with Williams than without him? Would I rather he was starting for our opposition than us? The answer to both of those questions is no. 

I think stats are very important, but reading beyond them is even more important.

Chunes said:

WattsTheMatter said:

Williams starts for Wales. His coming on changed the Playoff final. 

We're going all the way back to the play-off final

How many times since then has Williams actually been allowed to play his game? As many have alluded to, Bowyer has history trying to shoehorn skilfull players into roles that do not suit their games, and then criticising them publicly for it

J BLOCK said:

Dazzler21 said:

J BLOCK said:

Quote from one of the first team players this morning.

"Bowyer has f****** lost it"

Would like to know if they meant gone batshit for the mistakes or actually lost it?

He can't expect perfection every game from his players, just as we should not expect it from him and the players. 

Lost it as in, 'the plot'. I can also add "that tactics are non existence"

Im sorry havent read past this point to see what others have said or whats been expanded on but if this is even true whatever first team player is saying this hasnt been here long at all or showed even a tiny bit as much loyalty or passion as bowyer has along with the fact bowyer has worked miracles since the very first time he came in with us

hes given us many many great times over the recent past with playoffs and wembley and sticking with us throughout the rubbish with ownership who knows what wld have happened had he left!! and i know whos side i pick over what is no doubt a player throwing his toys out the pram describing him because of something he doesnt like about bowyer when things have got a little tuff lately 
no doubt them and there agent are bigtime charlies thinking there something special like a few we have had lately

He was very good against Pompey recently and got dropped next game, playing no part at all.

MattF said:

Wonder if we won't see Jackson speaking to the press after Saturday's game

Jacko should do it every game that Bowyer sees red mist.

Post match interviews come pretty soon after the final whistle. Managers are stressed, tense and wound-up, especially if the performance has been poor.
The media are hungry for their story ..... but perhaps from the upset manager's point of view, his interview should wait until the next day after he's had time to sleep on it?  

Bowyer is not coming across well at the moment after games. 
Perhaps best somebody else does it?

MuttleyCAFC said:

Maybe some of us think more can be got out of a player of his ability.

If he can perform well on the international stage, then he should be capable of performing well at Third Division level.
And credit due, there's been plenty of times when he has.

Last year, when Williams was allowed his run of games at Championship level, he was a key player in our terrific start to the season.
To me, if it could be done last season, it seems madness now not to set up to get the best out of this player.