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Harsh on Williams today
Comments
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I dont think it was the right thing to do when taking JW off at the weekend but not because he apparently missed a tackle, by taking him off and bringing on another defender we were basically inviting pressure and we are not good enough to do that. I think those tactics got us relegated last year and I think Bowyer is making a mistake by keep trying to do it when we go ahead. JW in my book would not get into the team anyway imo he flatters to deceive 9 times out of 10 and just skips about waiting to fall over with no end product, people keep quoting stats, how many goals or assists has he had since joining us ?0
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Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.
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Yes but the flip side of that is if your strikers know the ball is only going sideways or backwards they dont make the runs do they ?Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.1 -
Greenie said:
I suspect Bow has been telling JW what is expected of players playing for Charlton and JW didn’t do what was, indeed expected.Dazzler21 said:
You mean like Gilbey did several times before Williams?Greenie said:
This. Williams bottled it and the manager, quite rightly hooked him off.Covered End said:
Oh come on you'll surely not fool anyone by blaming Watson, because Williams jumped in the air rather than making a tackle.Leuth said:In fact, Watson is the one who completely sells himself there, wandering out of position and giving them a 2 on 1I like him but don’t make excuses for Williams, there’s no place in the pro game for a player to bottle it.
Is Gilbey not a Charlton player then?2 -
Forwards should always be making the runs, dragging opponents out of position and creating space.AndyG said:
Yes but the flip side of that is if your strikers know the ball is only going sideways or backwards they dont make the runs do they ?Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.
Otherwise our passing game is blocked off.
In theory, our players hold possession until a player/s does make movement.
Bowyer hates the ball being given away cheaply with an aimless long ball.
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That is their job, but are you saying that our strikers are not making the runs?AndyG said:
Yes but the flip side of that is if your strikers know the ball is only going sideways or backwards they dont make the runs do they ?Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.0 -
I have no idea as i really cant see if they are or not when watching on TV but there have certainly been times when really good balls have occasionally been crossed in but nobody there in the box. Maybe if the strikers thought the ball was going to be put in the area they might make more of an effort to be there. How can anyone think a 50yard back pass to our keeper is a good way of keep possessionRedrobo said:
That is their job, but are you saying that our strikers are not making the runs?AndyG said:
Yes but the flip side of that is if your strikers know the ball is only going sideways or backwards they dont make the runs do they ?Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.1 -
No one does, I'm sure. But then if a defender is closed off and forced to turn back under pressure, that's what he'll do.AndyG said:
I have no idea as i really cant see if they are or not when watching on TV but there have certainly been times when really good balls have occasionally been crossed in but nobody there in the box. Maybe if the strikers thought the ball was going to be put in the area they might make more of an effort to be there.Redrobo said:
That is their job, but are you saying that our strikers are not making the runs?AndyG said:
Yes but the flip side of that is if your strikers know the ball is only going sideways or backwards they dont make the runs do they ?Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.
How can anyone think a 50yard back pass to our keeper is a good way of keep possession
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Well it is a good way to keep possession. It is just not a very good way to score a goal.AndyG said:
I have no idea as i really cant see if they are or not when watching on TV but there have certainly been times when really good balls have occasionally been crossed in but nobody there in the box. Maybe if the strikers thought the ball was going to be put in the area they might make more of an effort to be there. How can anyone think a 50yard back pass to our keeper is a good way of keep possessionRedrobo said:
That is their job, but are you saying that our strikers are not making the runs?AndyG said:
Yes but the flip side of that is if your strikers know the ball is only going sideways or backwards they dont make the runs do they ?Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.But we digress. The question is if it is Pratley playing sideways or those in front of him lacking the movement so he can play it forward. I was not personally talking about the forwards specifically, I have been disappointed with the movement of some of our midfielders who do not move towards the defenders into space.I think chewing Pratley out for sideway passing is unfair. Against Shrewsbury I thought effort was in short supply across the team.0 -
Let's not fool ourselves. We are currently a long ball team ... with a target man who can't hold the ball up or win headers.Oggy Red said:
Forwards should always be making the runs, dragging opponents out of position and creating space.AndyG said:
Yes but the flip side of that is if your strikers know the ball is only going sideways or backwards they dont make the runs do they ?Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.
Otherwise our passing game is blocked off.
In theory, our players hold possession until a player/s does make movement.
Bowyer hates the ball being given away cheaply with an aimless long ball.
Oh yes, we might play it around across the back for a bit ... but then it gets lumped forward, and we lose possession.
The issue really is about lack of movement at the front, the lack of width, the inability to run at players from midfield and the woeful lack of pace throughout the team.
And, while I acknowledge that Bowyer did us proud under the previous ownership, and that he has shown loyalty (or a reluctance to move to Birmingham), all these players are his.
As mentioned on a previous thread, I think the day will come when Sandgaard will ask why we are not playing expansive, attacking football.
With the current squad, and recognising some of the injuries, I'd be inclined to put Maatsen into left midfield. Gunter has been a huge disappointment and should make way for Matthews. And I would tell Watson to try to stay goalside of his opponent at all times ... thus avoiding the need to make up ground quickly.
Sadly, that's about it. We lack natural goalscorers, so that has to be the priority in January ... but don't assume that will fix the problems.
We have to start creating chances first. So, Gilbey, a fit again Shinnie and JFC (and dare I add Maddison?) become crucial players.
On a more positive note, the quality of League 1 this season is dire, so we don't have to improve too much to have a reasonably successful season.
There you go, Lee. No charge.6 - Sponsored links:
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Can't believe how many are defending Williams for jumping over the ball like that.
I don't expect him to tackle like Pratley but shouldn't we expect him to attempt to get a foot to the ball to at least make it a bit more difficult for his opponent?7 -
Scoham & Grapevine are on my side of the discussion and that's settled it for me.7
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But it does seem to be a bit of a trend in lambasting our more creative/attacking players, Bogle, Williams, Morgan and Maddison. There wasn’t a bollocking for Pratley’s giving a pen away at Lincoln, or Gunter’s misplaced pass at Burton. I just think that the likes of Maddison and Williams are the players they are. They aren’t likely to be tracking back, putting in tackles. Claus Jensen never was. He used duck headers. If you sign those sort of players, I think you sign them for their potential bits of brilliance, rather than getting stuck in.Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.
I completely agree that Williams hasn’t really shown the promise we wanted him too, so I’m not going to defend him as if he’s some amazing talent for us, I just think Bowyer seems to chastise those type of players more than others. He knows full well not every player he manages can be the type to get stuck in in the traditional sense4 -
Dont foget if you watched on iplayer the williams non tackle is 1h45 minutes in.0
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The trouble is that 80% of the time, the ball is played back to Amos after 15-20 sideways/backwards passes and he then has to hit it long because other teams have sussed out they just need to pressurise when we do that rather than letting us play short passes into their half.Oggy Red said:
Forwards should always be making the runs, dragging opponents out of position and creating space.AndyG said:
Yes but the flip side of that is if your strikers know the ball is only going sideways or backwards they dont make the runs do they ?Oggy Red said:Redrobo said:
Don’t you think the lack of movement in front of him is more of an issue?cabbles said:
Agree with this. And it’s also quite telling the split reaction re: Bowyer’s reaction and comments. Some agree and some disagree. I’m in the same camp as you Stig, I can’t quite get my head around Bowyer’s actions and subsequent comments.Stig said:The fact that so many people are disagreeing over that one little video clip clearly demonstrates that it's not a clear cut decision, and face it in football what is? The perception of a manager standing on the touch line is likely do be very different to that of a player running with his head down trying to regain his balance. Given that it was a one off event, it would surely have been better to make it a discussion point for after the match than to publicly stoke up animosity within the team.
I think Saturday will give us a good insight as to how this is going to play out moving forward.The one thing I do get annoyed about, is as others have pointed out, how come Pratley doesn’t get singled out for constantly passing sideways over a sustained basis. This is just as damaging for the team as pulling out of challenges. It’s a bit double standards for me
Indeed. People forgetting Bowyer's constant mantra. "Take care of the ball".
If there's no movement or outlet forward, the ball will be played sideways and backwards.
Pratley or others passing sideways are doing so to keep possession.
It may be frustrating to watch ..... but they are playing to instructions.
Otherwise our passing game is blocked off.
In theory, our players hold possession until a player/s does make movement.
Bowyer hates the ball being given away cheaply with an aimless long ball.
The other problem is that our players don't look happy playing this way. If the ball is hardly going to be played forwards, the midfielders and strikers get fed up with making the correct runs, because 80% of the time, they are wasting their time. I think we need to revert to an "up and at 'em" style of play, which is what Bowyer adopted when he took over from Robinson, something that galvanised the whole team straight away.
If it's of any consolation, Barcelona are suffering in a similar way because teams press them hard and they give the ball away4 -
Everybody remarking that the football is dire, poor etc in this division, lets face the facts its never been that good at any time in League 1 [3rd division].
Because most people at present are watching nearly all the games, home & away, on a stream, they are noticing more mistakes, poor play etc.3 -
That’s not true Clive. Living overseas I watch everything on the stream unless I’m back in England. And believe me the performances in the past few games have been dire and that has nothing to do with watching it on a stream. It’s not about individual mistakes. It’s about how the team is set up and the style of play we’re playing.11
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Any chance we can move on now, we've got a 'big game' :to focus on coming up on Saturday.5
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Can't disagree with much of what Bowyer says here, and we have seen he improves players - especially midfielders.ForeverAddickted said:
However when he talks about players learning from mistakes, I don't feel like he is currently learning from his mistakes. He seems to feel like we were comfortable against Shrewsbury and it was only that mistake that cost us the game, but we all know if it was not for Amos and the woodwork things could have been a whole lot different.
Does not build me with much confidence that we will play any differently this weekend.2 - Sponsored links:
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I think what Bowyer needs to learn is that the same approach isn't going to work for every single player. I thought his description of his style was quite telling: 'My job is to push you and get the best out of you,” said the Charlton manager. “I will always do that. It is my job and the day I stop caring and say it doesn’t matter is the day I walk away from football'. Sure, that's a good mentality. The problem is that there's varied ways of pushing people and getting the best out of them. Some people need a rocket; Albie seems to have benefited from not getting away with losing concentration, and players like Wayne Rooney would always get a kicking because his manager knew he would respond. Some need a softer approach though and going into someone who won't benefit from it only does damage. I only know about Williams what I've seen in interviews but he seems like someone who needs an arm around the shoulder and a pep talk. Maybe Bowyer gave him that afterwards, but when you hear about Alex Ferguson, whenever players are asked what made him so great they almost all respond that it was his ability to know exactly how to talk to each player and engage with them in the way they needed. At the moment Bowyer feels like he's only got one speed and that can start to lose its effect if players react badly to it. Let's hope he adds a bit of nuance to his approach soon.
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Yep it was a mistake caused by his negative tactics. We were under siege and they got what they got out of it as a result of a mistake caused by constant pressure... I think it was a pretty expected goal for us to concede too...FishCostaFortune said:
Can't disagree with much of what Bowyer says here, and we have seen he improves players - especially midfielders.ForeverAddickted said:
However when he talks about players learning from mistakes, I don't feel like he is currently learning from his mistakes. He seems to feel like we were comfortable against Shrewsbury and it was only that mistake that cost us the game, but we all know if it was not for Amos and the woodwork things could have been a whole lot different.
Does not build me with much confidence that we will play any differently this weekend.
BTW The woodwork can't stop a ball going in the net... It is just the frame of the goal. Amos however I agree on.2 -
The age old argument of treating people fairly vs treating people equally.Garrymanilow said:I think what Bowyer needs to learn is that the same approach isn't going to work for every single player. I thought his description of his style was quite telling: 'My job is to push you and get the best out of you,” said the Charlton manager. “I will always do that. It is my job and the day I stop caring and say it doesn’t matter is the day I walk away from football'. Sure, that's a good mentality. The problem is that there's varied ways of pushing people and getting the best out of them. Some people need a rocket; Albie seems to have benefited from not getting away with losing concentration, and players like Wayne Rooney would always get a kicking because his manager knew he would respond. Some need a softer approach though and going into someone who won't benefit from it only does damage. I only know about Williams what I've seen in interviews but he seems like someone who needs an arm around the shoulder and a pep talk. Maybe Bowyer gave him that afterwards, but when you hear about Alex Ferguson, whenever players are asked what made him so great they almost all respond that it was his ability to know exactly how to talk to each player and engage with them in the way they needed. At the moment Bowyer feels like he's only got one speed and that can start to lose its effect if players react badly to it. Let's hope he adds a bit of nuance to his approach soon.
If I say to you I will treat everyone equally, everyone must use the stairs to gain access to my building... That isn't fair on wheelchair users.
If I say I will offer a ramp for wheel chair users and steps for others I am now treating them fairly.
Now to come up with a football analogy for the same thing...
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Sorry miles behind on this now, but the other 2 who are completely taken out of the game are as much to blame as JW here.Dazzler21 said:Just to say... Williams won a challenge then was off balance for the second, sure he did step out of it but he was so off balance and with his injury history... I can't believe he's been hauled off for that...
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Totally agree, I was thinking more along the lines of the fine margins - that as you point out, we're happening due to us constantly inviting pressure on ourselves.Dazzler21 said:
Yep it was a mistake caused by his negative tactics. We were under siege and they got what they got out of it as a result of a mistake caused by constant pressure... I think it was a pretty expected goal for us to concede too...FishCostaFortune said:
Can't disagree with much of what Bowyer says here, and we have seen he improves players - especially midfielders.ForeverAddickted said:
However when he talks about players learning from mistakes, I don't feel like he is currently learning from his mistakes. He seems to feel like we were comfortable against Shrewsbury and it was only that mistake that cost us the game, but we all know if it was not for Amos and the woodwork things could have been a whole lot different.
Does not build me with much confidence that we will play any differently this weekend.
BTW The woodwork can't stop a ball going in the net... It is just the frame of the goal. Amos however I agree on.0 -
Am surprised Bows didn't mention Gunter letting the ball bounce and defend it from the next passage of play.1
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But thats just a mistake with decision making, next time Gunter could make the same call, connect with the ball properly and its dealt with, same with Morgan, they've at least tried to deal with the situation - Williams hasn't made a mistake, he's done absolutely nothingmendonca said:Am surprised Bows didn't mention Gunter letting the ball bounce and defend it from the next passage of play.0 -
FishCostaFortune said:
Can't disagree with much of what Bowyer says here, and we have seen he improves players - especially midfielders.ForeverAddickted said:
Does he? I am not being argumentative but who has he improved?
Most players will improve between 18-23ish by playing games, preferably in their correct positions. Hence all clubs loan young players out.
If you put Gallagher, Bielik, Grant, Aribo and Sarr (a few years older but didn't play for nearly 3 years) in that category who else has significantly improved? Then look at those who regressed.0 -
Taylor (hugely so). Cullen. Philips. Dijksteel. You could make a case for Leko, before he got injured. This season, Amos. Inniss (although the inevitable injury came so soon, that might be premature)Cafc43v3r said:FishCostaFortune said:
Can't disagree with much of what Bowyer says here, and we have seen he improves players - especially midfielders.ForeverAddickted said:
Does he? I am not being argumentative but who has he improved?
Most players will improve between 18-23ish by playing games, preferably in their correct positions. Hence all clubs loan young players out.
If you put Gallagher, Bielik, Grant, Aribo and Sarr (a few years older but didn't play for nearly 3 years) in that category who else has significantly improved? Then look at those who regressed.2 -
For some offers of people he's improved - Morgan, Pratley, Alfie, KAG and Taylor both went from League 2 to Championship level strikers.Cafc43v3r said:FishCostaFortune said:
Can't disagree with much of what Bowyer says here, and we have seen he improves players - especially midfielders.ForeverAddickted said:
Does he? I am not being argumentative but who has he improved?
Most players will improve between 18-23ish by playing games, preferably in their correct positions. Hence all clubs loan young players out.
If you put Gallagher, Bielik, Grant, Aribo and Sarr (a few years older but didn't play for nearly 3 years) in that category who else has significantly improved? Then look at those who regressed.
But you don't have to take my word for it anyway, I think the fact that Chelsea have trusted us with two of their most promising young players in the last 2 seasons, and Man Utd have sent one of their young midfielders our way says a fair bit as well.
I'd be really interested to hear whose regressed?
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