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Has Bowyer lost it?
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It's hard to say but if we're picking the players as they are now I think I'd go with the following:kentred2 said:A lot of comments about this is not good enough with the players we have. Do we though?None of them would get in the 2019 first team except perhaps Millar and Purrington(!). Pratley was only a squad player then. None of the midfielders are above mid table level. Some players can’t even last 90minutes a fortnight. Few are contracted beyond the summer. It will take a few more windows to rectify that.The squad is not good enough for the constant change of formation. And that is where Bowyer falls down. He need to realise how limited they all are and keep it simple and consistent.GK Phillips Amos RB Dijksteel Gunter RCB Bauer Inniss LCB Sarr Famewo LB Purrington Maatsen CDM Bielik Pratley RCM Pratley Shinnie LCM Cullen F.Caskey CAM Aribo Morgan LF Taylor Aneke RF Parker Washington Sub1 Maxwell M.Brewer Sub2 Pearce Oshilaja Sub3 Solly Matthews Sub4 F.Caskey Smith Sub5 Reeves Schwartz Sub6 Williams Millar Sub7 Lapslie Watson
I've chosen Schwartz over Reeves as we didn't have a striker on the bench at the end of the promotion season.0 -
Maybe thats what all the other clubs did when we tried approaching them over their Centre-Backs?Cafc43v3r said:
If they had both stayed/played to the end of the season it would have been a totally different situation.cafcfan1990 said:
There is a way to do it though. I don't think many people have a problem with Gomez, Shelvey, Konsa, Doughty or Phillips. Parker and Taylor though, different story.ForeverAddickted said:
Bit like Scott Parker...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's just standard football behaviour though isn't it?ForeverAddickted said:
I was talking in generalcafcfan1990 said:
No, I don't say that.ForeverAddickted said:
Is he rated by the likes of Gallen or is it like that fan who gave Powell the list of players we should sign only for Chris to politely explain why he wouldnt go for any of themcafcfan1990 said:
Then why not? Rated, with Famewo not ours and Inniss' injury record makes perfect sense if we're building for the future. Doesn't count under the cap and we can release Pearce in the summer.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont think we did...cafcfan1990 said:
Did we put a bid in for Jack Tucker, local lad, doesn't count under the cap?ForeverAddickted said:
So two people (Bowyer AND Gallen) say there werent any defenders available that would have strengthened usTodds_right_hook said:
It’s not like he has had a month to sort that out!!maddferrett said:This season is over and I don't blame Bowyer. We have no recognised centre backs to rely on. You can't win at football without a defence.
But we know better? - Who should we have signed then?
Its like what Bowyer said about Stockley, had PNE said to us, Bauer isnt good enough we want to ship him out to League One, do you think they'd have said "No thanks" - Had the right defender become available then I have no doubt we'd have signed one
Cant remember if Cawley said he was a genuine target or not
Its also staggering that we think we only have to throw money at Gillingham or Milton Keynes etc for their promising players... Yet when the boot is on the other foot and we dont want our youngsters to go further up the chain we're instantly saying that we should reject any offers regardless of the price because we need to build a team around them!!
Cmon though, if a Championship club had wanted Albie Morgan for even £2m in January, many of us would have been livid at Sandgaard for selling one of our youngsters - Yet there always appears the premise when we go in for other clubs kids that they should stand back and let us help ourselves for whatever the right price is
Sometimes there isnt a right price because that club actually want to try and push on with the player rather than constantly selling.
Didnt that exact scenario play out in the summer when teams tried to sign Alfie Doughty, the offer was stupid but the talk was we should keep him, try and get promotion with him and ensure that he signed a new deal so we didnt lose him for nothing in the summer
Sign a player from a smaller club - "can't blame him, bloke wants to progess his career at a better club for more money, welcome aboard"
Lose player to bigger club/club in higher league - "judas c*nt, there's no loyalty in football these days, fuck him"
Its also an argument I used last year (I was wrong on that occasion because of the transfer embargo) but I hate the January Transfer Window because you have a month to try and get in players, clubs are going to be even more reluctant to let players go the further you get into the window because its going to become even harder to find a replacement themselves, hence why Liverpool had to settle for a Championship Centre-Back.
I'm sure our transfer target list was a lot longer than just those names that Rich Cawley provides us with and Gallen certainly isnt going to start throwing names out there, that would be disrespectful to the player and parent club, bit like his comment last night about a player having to turn round and go home2 -
Very true but just how far away are we from the point where a change couldn’t make it any worse. Obviously a new man would ideally be a name like those you mention but our owner has a time scaled plan and at this point we are actually both positionally and looking like things are worse than when Sandgaard bought us. Personally I think this season is over but I know technically it’s not quite dead yet. How we perform over the next four games will decide Bowyers future for me.AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.0 -
That is of course possible but I don't think that was the case. We weren't really linked to any, they've stated there was nobody better available and last night Gallen referenced Inniss and Famewo coming back from injury. We had to juggle and for that I do have some sympathy but I think they made a decision not to sign someone. If you don't think that warrants criticism then I respect your opinion, I just couldn't disagree more.ForeverAddickted said:
Maybe thats what all the other clubs did when we tried approaching them over their Centre-Backs?Cafc43v3r said:
If they had both stayed/played to the end of the season it would have been a totally different situation.cafcfan1990 said:
There is a way to do it though. I don't think many people have a problem with Gomez, Shelvey, Konsa, Doughty or Phillips. Parker and Taylor though, different story.ForeverAddickted said:
Bit like Scott Parker...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's just standard football behaviour though isn't it?ForeverAddickted said:
I was talking in generalcafcfan1990 said:
No, I don't say that.ForeverAddickted said:
Is he rated by the likes of Gallen or is it like that fan who gave Powell the list of players we should sign only for Chris to politely explain why he wouldnt go for any of themcafcfan1990 said:
Then why not? Rated, with Famewo not ours and Inniss' injury record makes perfect sense if we're building for the future. Doesn't count under the cap and we can release Pearce in the summer.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont think we did...cafcfan1990 said:
Did we put a bid in for Jack Tucker, local lad, doesn't count under the cap?ForeverAddickted said:
So two people (Bowyer AND Gallen) say there werent any defenders available that would have strengthened usTodds_right_hook said:
It’s not like he has had a month to sort that out!!maddferrett said:This season is over and I don't blame Bowyer. We have no recognised centre backs to rely on. You can't win at football without a defence.
But we know better? - Who should we have signed then?
Its like what Bowyer said about Stockley, had PNE said to us, Bauer isnt good enough we want to ship him out to League One, do you think they'd have said "No thanks" - Had the right defender become available then I have no doubt we'd have signed one
Cant remember if Cawley said he was a genuine target or not
Its also staggering that we think we only have to throw money at Gillingham or Milton Keynes etc for their promising players... Yet when the boot is on the other foot and we dont want our youngsters to go further up the chain we're instantly saying that we should reject any offers regardless of the price because we need to build a team around them!!
Cmon though, if a Championship club had wanted Albie Morgan for even £2m in January, many of us would have been livid at Sandgaard for selling one of our youngsters - Yet there always appears the premise when we go in for other clubs kids that they should stand back and let us help ourselves for whatever the right price is
Sometimes there isnt a right price because that club actually want to try and push on with the player rather than constantly selling.
Didnt that exact scenario play out in the summer when teams tried to sign Alfie Doughty, the offer was stupid but the talk was we should keep him, try and get promotion with him and ensure that he signed a new deal so we didnt lose him for nothing in the summer
Sign a player from a smaller club - "can't blame him, bloke wants to progess his career at a better club for more money, welcome aboard"
Lose player to bigger club/club in higher league - "judas c*nt, there's no loyalty in football these days, fuck him"
I'm sure our transfer target list was a lot longer than just those names that Rich Cawley provides us with and Gallen certainly isnt going to start throwing names out there, that would be disrespectful to the player and parent club, bit like his comment last night about a player having to turn round and go home3 -
And a highly rated one from the Bundesliga. I think Liverpool's delay in signing a CB was a bit weird but at least they got there in the end.ForeverAddickted said:
Maybe thats what all the other clubs did when we tried approaching them over their Centre-Backs?Cafc43v3r said:
If they had both stayed/played to the end of the season it would have been a totally different situation.cafcfan1990 said:
There is a way to do it though. I don't think many people have a problem with Gomez, Shelvey, Konsa, Doughty or Phillips. Parker and Taylor though, different story.ForeverAddickted said:
Bit like Scott Parker...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's just standard football behaviour though isn't it?ForeverAddickted said:
I was talking in generalcafcfan1990 said:
No, I don't say that.ForeverAddickted said:
Is he rated by the likes of Gallen or is it like that fan who gave Powell the list of players we should sign only for Chris to politely explain why he wouldnt go for any of themcafcfan1990 said:
Then why not? Rated, with Famewo not ours and Inniss' injury record makes perfect sense if we're building for the future. Doesn't count under the cap and we can release Pearce in the summer.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont think we did...cafcfan1990 said:
Did we put a bid in for Jack Tucker, local lad, doesn't count under the cap?ForeverAddickted said:
So two people (Bowyer AND Gallen) say there werent any defenders available that would have strengthened usTodds_right_hook said:
It’s not like he has had a month to sort that out!!maddferrett said:This season is over and I don't blame Bowyer. We have no recognised centre backs to rely on. You can't win at football without a defence.
But we know better? - Who should we have signed then?
Its like what Bowyer said about Stockley, had PNE said to us, Bauer isnt good enough we want to ship him out to League One, do you think they'd have said "No thanks" - Had the right defender become available then I have no doubt we'd have signed one
Cant remember if Cawley said he was a genuine target or not
Its also staggering that we think we only have to throw money at Gillingham or Milton Keynes etc for their promising players... Yet when the boot is on the other foot and we dont want our youngsters to go further up the chain we're instantly saying that we should reject any offers regardless of the price because we need to build a team around them!!
Cmon though, if a Championship club had wanted Albie Morgan for even £2m in January, many of us would have been livid at Sandgaard for selling one of our youngsters - Yet there always appears the premise when we go in for other clubs kids that they should stand back and let us help ourselves for whatever the right price is
Sometimes there isnt a right price because that club actually want to try and push on with the player rather than constantly selling.
Didnt that exact scenario play out in the summer when teams tried to sign Alfie Doughty, the offer was stupid but the talk was we should keep him, try and get promotion with him and ensure that he signed a new deal so we didnt lose him for nothing in the summer
Sign a player from a smaller club - "can't blame him, bloke wants to progess his career at a better club for more money, welcome aboard"
Lose player to bigger club/club in higher league - "judas c*nt, there's no loyalty in football these days, fuck him"
Its also an argument I used last year (I was wrong on that occasion because of the transfer embargo) but I hate the January Transfer Window because you have a month to try and get in players, clubs are going to be even more reluctant to let players go the further you get into the window because its going to become even harder to find a replacement themselves, hence why Liverpool had to settle for a Championship Centre-Back.
I'm sure our transfer target list was a lot longer than just those names that Rich Cawley provides us with and Gallen certainly isnt going to start throwing names out there, that would be disrespectful to the player and parent club, bit like his comment last night about a player having to turn round and go home2 -
I honestly don't believe that there wasn't a 4th or 5th choice championship center half that was available, either on loan, or a similar deal to how we got Williams.ForeverAddickted said:
Maybe thats what all the other clubs did when we tried approaching them over their Centre-Backs?Cafc43v3r said:
If they had both stayed/played to the end of the season it would have been a totally different situation.cafcfan1990 said:
There is a way to do it though. I don't think many people have a problem with Gomez, Shelvey, Konsa, Doughty or Phillips. Parker and Taylor though, different story.ForeverAddickted said:
Bit like Scott Parker...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's just standard football behaviour though isn't it?ForeverAddickted said:
I was talking in generalcafcfan1990 said:
No, I don't say that.ForeverAddickted said:
Is he rated by the likes of Gallen or is it like that fan who gave Powell the list of players we should sign only for Chris to politely explain why he wouldnt go for any of themcafcfan1990 said:
Then why not? Rated, with Famewo not ours and Inniss' injury record makes perfect sense if we're building for the future. Doesn't count under the cap and we can release Pearce in the summer.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont think we did...cafcfan1990 said:
Did we put a bid in for Jack Tucker, local lad, doesn't count under the cap?ForeverAddickted said:
So two people (Bowyer AND Gallen) say there werent any defenders available that would have strengthened usTodds_right_hook said:
It’s not like he has had a month to sort that out!!maddferrett said:This season is over and I don't blame Bowyer. We have no recognised centre backs to rely on. You can't win at football without a defence.
But we know better? - Who should we have signed then?
Its like what Bowyer said about Stockley, had PNE said to us, Bauer isnt good enough we want to ship him out to League One, do you think they'd have said "No thanks" - Had the right defender become available then I have no doubt we'd have signed one
Cant remember if Cawley said he was a genuine target or not
Its also staggering that we think we only have to throw money at Gillingham or Milton Keynes etc for their promising players... Yet when the boot is on the other foot and we dont want our youngsters to go further up the chain we're instantly saying that we should reject any offers regardless of the price because we need to build a team around them!!
Cmon though, if a Championship club had wanted Albie Morgan for even £2m in January, many of us would have been livid at Sandgaard for selling one of our youngsters - Yet there always appears the premise when we go in for other clubs kids that they should stand back and let us help ourselves for whatever the right price is
Sometimes there isnt a right price because that club actually want to try and push on with the player rather than constantly selling.
Didnt that exact scenario play out in the summer when teams tried to sign Alfie Doughty, the offer was stupid but the talk was we should keep him, try and get promotion with him and ensure that he signed a new deal so we didnt lose him for nothing in the summer
Sign a player from a smaller club - "can't blame him, bloke wants to progess his career at a better club for more money, welcome aboard"
Lose player to bigger club/club in higher league - "judas c*nt, there's no loyalty in football these days, fuck him"
Its also an argument I used last year (I was wrong on that occasion because of the transfer embargo) but I hate the January Transfer Window because you have a month to try and get in players, clubs are going to be even more reluctant to let players go the further you get into the window because its going to become even harder to find a replacement themselves, hence why Liverpool had to settle for a Championship Centre-Back.
I'm sure our transfer target list was a lot longer than just those names that Rich Cawley provides us with and Gallen certainly isnt going to start throwing names out there, that would be disrespectful to the player and parent club, bit like his comment last night about a player having to turn round and go home
I similarly can't believe that any of them would be worse than Gunter or Pratley.
It wasn't about the cap because we have got some money left.1 -
Shall we pretend we didn't sign 11 players before the Summer window closed? Sure we had two weeks, but then we've just had a month and whilst we have improved on Levitt, Smyth & Bogle (hopefully) we still didn't address our leaky defence, just because two long term injured players *MIGHT* be back soon.PeanutsMolloy said:
Try reading what I wrote. 1 game after the first full window he's been able to do any transfers for God knows how long.Croydon said:
No one's judging after one game, we've been mainly woeful since October 2019.PeanutsMolloy said:
This.AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.
Bowyer makes mistakes (some bigger than others) and is not the perfect manager....... shock horror. Who'd have thought?
BUT, we never know all the facts about why players may not make the starting line-up or why certain subs are made.
Some folk on here have incredibly short memories..... not least of our desperate straits less than 6 months ago (when we were extolling Bow et al for their loyalty) and of our brilliant run (notwithstanding our apparently inept management team) when we were injury-free and had had a brief chance to assemble a make-shift squad.
Show some bloody loyalty back to the bloke and at least give him the chance to show what he can do (over time, not one bloody game) after a full transfer window and preferably with our first-choice defence available.
The summer is the earliest moment to make any long term decisions about whether Bow is the right man for TS's plans and I strongly suspect that's how TS sees it.
Above all, BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.
Injuries, shit senior management, half a transfer window, a full transfer window but with a cap, no crowds, too small a crowd, dodgy refs, dodgy pitches, the cap, the cap again. It's just excuse after excuse. Could be bottom of League One next November, and we'd still have fans on here telling us to give him a chance because he stuck with us through the ESI days.
I'm a Charlton fan, not a Bowyer fan. His management is directly holding us back at the moment, so I don't really understand the need for some blind loyalty towards him.
Also, what evidence is there that Sandgaard would bring in some randomer, rather than a proper manager? Hardly built a random SMT since he's been here, has he?4 -
In fairness I think that only came about on deadline day because we offloaded two and signed one.Cafc43v3r said:
I honestly don't believe that there wasn't a 4th or 5th choice championship center half that was available, either on loan, or a similar deal to how we got Williams.ForeverAddickted said:
Maybe thats what all the other clubs did when we tried approaching them over their Centre-Backs?Cafc43v3r said:
If they had both stayed/played to the end of the season it would have been a totally different situation.cafcfan1990 said:
There is a way to do it though. I don't think many people have a problem with Gomez, Shelvey, Konsa, Doughty or Phillips. Parker and Taylor though, different story.ForeverAddickted said:
Bit like Scott Parker...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's just standard football behaviour though isn't it?ForeverAddickted said:
I was talking in generalcafcfan1990 said:
No, I don't say that.ForeverAddickted said:
Is he rated by the likes of Gallen or is it like that fan who gave Powell the list of players we should sign only for Chris to politely explain why he wouldnt go for any of themcafcfan1990 said:
Then why not? Rated, with Famewo not ours and Inniss' injury record makes perfect sense if we're building for the future. Doesn't count under the cap and we can release Pearce in the summer.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont think we did...cafcfan1990 said:
Did we put a bid in for Jack Tucker, local lad, doesn't count under the cap?ForeverAddickted said:
So two people (Bowyer AND Gallen) say there werent any defenders available that would have strengthened usTodds_right_hook said:
It’s not like he has had a month to sort that out!!maddferrett said:This season is over and I don't blame Bowyer. We have no recognised centre backs to rely on. You can't win at football without a defence.
But we know better? - Who should we have signed then?
Its like what Bowyer said about Stockley, had PNE said to us, Bauer isnt good enough we want to ship him out to League One, do you think they'd have said "No thanks" - Had the right defender become available then I have no doubt we'd have signed one
Cant remember if Cawley said he was a genuine target or not
Its also staggering that we think we only have to throw money at Gillingham or Milton Keynes etc for their promising players... Yet when the boot is on the other foot and we dont want our youngsters to go further up the chain we're instantly saying that we should reject any offers regardless of the price because we need to build a team around them!!
Cmon though, if a Championship club had wanted Albie Morgan for even £2m in January, many of us would have been livid at Sandgaard for selling one of our youngsters - Yet there always appears the premise when we go in for other clubs kids that they should stand back and let us help ourselves for whatever the right price is
Sometimes there isnt a right price because that club actually want to try and push on with the player rather than constantly selling.
Didnt that exact scenario play out in the summer when teams tried to sign Alfie Doughty, the offer was stupid but the talk was we should keep him, try and get promotion with him and ensure that he signed a new deal so we didnt lose him for nothing in the summer
Sign a player from a smaller club - "can't blame him, bloke wants to progess his career at a better club for more money, welcome aboard"
Lose player to bigger club/club in higher league - "judas c*nt, there's no loyalty in football these days, fuck him"
Its also an argument I used last year (I was wrong on that occasion because of the transfer embargo) but I hate the January Transfer Window because you have a month to try and get in players, clubs are going to be even more reluctant to let players go the further you get into the window because its going to become even harder to find a replacement themselves, hence why Liverpool had to settle for a Championship Centre-Back.
I'm sure our transfer target list was a lot longer than just those names that Rich Cawley provides us with and Gallen certainly isnt going to start throwing names out there, that would be disrespectful to the player and parent club, bit like his comment last night about a player having to turn round and go home
I similarly can't believe that any of them would be worse than Gunter or Pratley.
It wasn't about the cap because we have got some money left.2 -
How do you tell the difference between a good and bad manager then? Liverpool , ManU, Man City wouldn't be where they are in the league with bad players would they?Billericaydickie said:
In 2019 Bowyer got lucky.Billericaydickie said:ForeverAddickted said:
Was Bowyer a mediorce manager when we went up two years ago?hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
No point sticking with a mediocre manager.agim said:Stick with him. We've had too many managers over the last 10 years and the club needs stability. It looks like we have it with TS so let's back him and build something. THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN OVERNIGHT. We had our best periods under Curbs after giving him time.
He inherited some good players who were on long contracts from the Katrine Miele days, plus Karlan Grant finally came good.
He did buy Taylor, and he made some very shrewd loan deals with Cullen, Belik, and Williams.
In 2021 things are different. The quality players are no longer in the squad. We are now a team of average league 1 players. Bowyer’s failure to motivate these players is evident.
By league 1 standards we are a big club. But we are not playing like a big club. Tactics and team selection is appalling. Miller was man of the match last week and this week he is on the bench.
Sadly I think that Bowyer has been found out and for the good of both parties Bowyer now needs to go.
Agree about team selection.0 - Sponsored links:
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A week is not long enough to master the complexity of our gameplan: go out and give everything, cut out the silly mistakes and get in the box.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Fuck sake please tell me he didn't say that?!Croydon said:Bowyer said he might not play Jaiyesemi on Saturday as it's soon, and he only knows Deji...
The lad has literally played with Smith for most of the season!
Sorry DJ, we're not playing you until you've been on a team bonding session and remembered everyones name and one important fact about them.0 -
Actually agree with this. If we are to hire a new manager, they need to be familiar with the English game.ForeverAddickted said:
Whats the difference?FAVADDICK said:
I mean brining in a Danish manager it's hasn't done them bad has it and I would take anything to have Thomas Frank at this club over the shit we've got nowForeverAddickted said:
I always thought one of the fans beef with Roland was he kept hiring Managers who didnt know the English game?FAVADDICK said:AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.
And look where that got Brentford we need someone with no association with this club. To most people bowyer is now bigger then our club they support him more then charlton he can do no wrong in there eyes
Thats why he suddenly changed tact and brought in Slade and then Robinson
Roland brings in a Belgian Manager because he's Belgian
Sandgaard brings in a Danish Manager because he's Danish
Or do the Danes have special abilities over the Belgians to understand the English league better than their counterpart?
Just because Thomas Frank gets it doesnt mean the next bloke Sandgaard hires will, whatever country they're from
Personally I only believe we are considering that Sandgaard would bring in a Danish manager is because RD did it, not all owners will. We have Roddy and Gallen as part of our management team to help advise on who would be best.1 -
I don't think all are supporting giving the manager a chance in that mindset AFKA, but I think there are a few that give that impression.AFKABartram said:
This nonsense has been peddled out by quite a few people in recent weeks and is actually starting to make me angry.FAVADDICK said:AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.
To most people bowyer is now bigger then our club they support him more then charlton he can do no wrong in there eyesIt insinuates that if you’ve felt the best CURRENT course of action for our club is a short period of stability and opportunity for our existing manager to bed in recent squad changes and see key players return from injury, then that makes you less of a fan. That you are doing so for the betterment of an individual rather than the club you love.
You probably don’t intend it like but personally i find that really insulting.0 -
To be fair to Roland and to play devils advocate with my own post, bringing in foreign managers is nothing newDazzler21 said:
Actually agree with this. If we are to hire a new manager, they need to be familiar with the English game.ForeverAddickted said:
Whats the difference?FAVADDICK said:
I mean brining in a Danish manager it's hasn't done them bad has it and I would take anything to have Thomas Frank at this club over the shit we've got nowForeverAddickted said:
I always thought one of the fans beef with Roland was he kept hiring Managers who didnt know the English game?FAVADDICK said:AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.
And look where that got Brentford we need someone with no association with this club. To most people bowyer is now bigger then our club they support him more then charlton he can do no wrong in there eyes
Thats why he suddenly changed tact and brought in Slade and then Robinson
Roland brings in a Belgian Manager because he's Belgian
Sandgaard brings in a Danish Manager because he's Danish
Or do the Danes have special abilities over the Belgians to understand the English league better than their counterpart?
Just because Thomas Frank gets it doesnt mean the next bloke Sandgaard hires will, whatever country they're from
Personally I only believe we are considering that Sandgaard would bring in a Danish manager is because RD did it, not all owners will. We have Roddy and Gallen as part of our management team to help advise on who would be best.
If Sandgaard does it its not going to be another revolutionary approach, even down in the lower leagues of the EFL
Roland's issue though was like Driesen with his players - He didnt do his research and presumed that one league is the same as all others so if someone can do it somewhere they can do it anywhere.
We have got a decent group of players who should be doing better
I'm just not of the opinion that changing manager will suddenly turn everything around as quick as everyone likes and expects
Its why I said on another post that if Sandgaard has doubts about Bowyer then he does have to go before the end of the season so the new man has time to assess, else we're wasting time and everyone else staying at this level will get the jump on us AGAIN next season1 -
Agree with this. Cannot be end of the season, personally I'd give Bowyer this month but at the very least the new manager needs 8-10 games.ForeverAddickted said:Dazzler21 said:
Actually agree with this. If we are to hire a new manager, they need to be familiar with the English game.ForeverAddickted said:
Whats the difference?FAVADDICK said:
I mean brining in a Danish manager it's hasn't done them bad has it and I would take anything to have Thomas Frank at this club over the shit we've got nowForeverAddickted said:
I always thought one of the fans beef with Roland was he kept hiring Managers who didnt know the English game?FAVADDICK said:AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.
And look where that got Brentford we need someone with no association with this club. To most people bowyer is now bigger then our club they support him more then charlton he can do no wrong in there eyes
Thats why he suddenly changed tact and brought in Slade and then Robinson
Roland brings in a Belgian Manager because he's Belgian
Sandgaard brings in a Danish Manager because he's Danish
Or do the Danes have special abilities over the Belgians to understand the English league better than their counterpart?
Just because Thomas Frank gets it doesnt mean the next bloke Sandgaard hires will, whatever country they're from
Personally I only believe we are considering that Sandgaard would bring in a Danish manager is because RD did it, not all owners will. We have Roddy and Gallen as part of our management team to help advise on who would be best.
Its why I said on another post that if Sandgaard has doubts about Bowyer then he does have to go before the end of the season so the new man has time to assess, else we're wasting time and everyone else staying at this level will get the jump on us AGAIN next season1 -
Given what we've been through, this season it was always going to be blooming tough to recruit,.
Back Lee in the summer , bring in younger fitter players, not injury prone , and with a good attitude and ability and we will flourish, i don't think our midfield or defence is fit for purpose at the moment.
We are still reaping results of takeover and a transfer embargo, and having something thrown together last minute always had plenty of risks involved, there's been to many comings and goings (rightly so )some not good enough / wrong attitude, and others i don't blame for moving on, be it them getting abuse from Lee or supporters online, plus the chance to play at a higher level.
Personally i find it disrespectful talking about getting somebody getting the boot when they are already in a job, maybe i'm old fashioned , but i don't like kneejerk reactions, they rarely work out.
I do wonder if the stress of the takeover and relegation has burnt Lee out , and i for one would not want to be in his position , we do need to temper our expectations a bit!
When we went up in 2019 , we scraped it @ Wembley, lovely as it was we had 2 players playing for us (not ours) that have since been sold on for 17 million , we havent got that at the moment, although we don't yet know the value of Liam.4 -
In fairness if he said he tried you couldn't blame him for not getting one. To say there wasn't one available that's better than Pratley and Gunter is bollocks, he cant even believe that himself.cafcfan1990 said:
In fairness I think that only came about on deadline day because we offloaded two and signed one.Cafc43v3r said:
I honestly don't believe that there wasn't a 4th or 5th choice championship center half that was available, either on loan, or a similar deal to how we got Williams.ForeverAddickted said:
Maybe thats what all the other clubs did when we tried approaching them over their Centre-Backs?Cafc43v3r said:
If they had both stayed/played to the end of the season it would have been a totally different situation.cafcfan1990 said:
There is a way to do it though. I don't think many people have a problem with Gomez, Shelvey, Konsa, Doughty or Phillips. Parker and Taylor though, different story.ForeverAddickted said:
Bit like Scott Parker...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's just standard football behaviour though isn't it?ForeverAddickted said:
I was talking in generalcafcfan1990 said:
No, I don't say that.ForeverAddickted said:
Is he rated by the likes of Gallen or is it like that fan who gave Powell the list of players we should sign only for Chris to politely explain why he wouldnt go for any of themcafcfan1990 said:
Then why not? Rated, with Famewo not ours and Inniss' injury record makes perfect sense if we're building for the future. Doesn't count under the cap and we can release Pearce in the summer.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont think we did...cafcfan1990 said:
Did we put a bid in for Jack Tucker, local lad, doesn't count under the cap?ForeverAddickted said:
So two people (Bowyer AND Gallen) say there werent any defenders available that would have strengthened usTodds_right_hook said:
It’s not like he has had a month to sort that out!!maddferrett said:This season is over and I don't blame Bowyer. We have no recognised centre backs to rely on. You can't win at football without a defence.
But we know better? - Who should we have signed then?
Its like what Bowyer said about Stockley, had PNE said to us, Bauer isnt good enough we want to ship him out to League One, do you think they'd have said "No thanks" - Had the right defender become available then I have no doubt we'd have signed one
Cant remember if Cawley said he was a genuine target or not
Its also staggering that we think we only have to throw money at Gillingham or Milton Keynes etc for their promising players... Yet when the boot is on the other foot and we dont want our youngsters to go further up the chain we're instantly saying that we should reject any offers regardless of the price because we need to build a team around them!!
Cmon though, if a Championship club had wanted Albie Morgan for even £2m in January, many of us would have been livid at Sandgaard for selling one of our youngsters - Yet there always appears the premise when we go in for other clubs kids that they should stand back and let us help ourselves for whatever the right price is
Sometimes there isnt a right price because that club actually want to try and push on with the player rather than constantly selling.
Didnt that exact scenario play out in the summer when teams tried to sign Alfie Doughty, the offer was stupid but the talk was we should keep him, try and get promotion with him and ensure that he signed a new deal so we didnt lose him for nothing in the summer
Sign a player from a smaller club - "can't blame him, bloke wants to progess his career at a better club for more money, welcome aboard"
Lose player to bigger club/club in higher league - "judas c*nt, there's no loyalty in football these days, fuck him"
Its also an argument I used last year (I was wrong on that occasion because of the transfer embargo) but I hate the January Transfer Window because you have a month to try and get in players, clubs are going to be even more reluctant to let players go the further you get into the window because its going to become even harder to find a replacement themselves, hence why Liverpool had to settle for a Championship Centre-Back.
I'm sure our transfer target list was a lot longer than just those names that Rich Cawley provides us with and Gallen certainly isnt going to start throwing names out there, that would be disrespectful to the player and parent club, bit like his comment last night about a player having to turn round and go home
I similarly can't believe that any of them would be worse than Gunter or Pratley.
It wasn't about the cap because we have got some money left.5 -
To save this season we need an injection of some fresh ideas.
We've signed a load of players, tried different formations and line ups, shipped out players not required. No one is playing well apart from a couple of the new signings
Our next 5 games this month are all very winnable, but I don't have any confidence that it's going to be any better than the last 5 games.0 -
I agree. I've only got to look in the mirror to see a CB better than Pratley and Gunter.Cafc43v3r said:
In fairness if he said he tried you couldn't blame him for not getting one. To say there wasn't one available that's better than Pratley and Gunter is bollocks, he cant even believe that himself.cafcfan1990 said:
In fairness I think that only came about on deadline day because we offloaded two and signed one.Cafc43v3r said:
I honestly don't believe that there wasn't a 4th or 5th choice championship center half that was available, either on loan, or a similar deal to how we got Williams.ForeverAddickted said:
Maybe thats what all the other clubs did when we tried approaching them over their Centre-Backs?Cafc43v3r said:
If they had both stayed/played to the end of the season it would have been a totally different situation.cafcfan1990 said:
There is a way to do it though. I don't think many people have a problem with Gomez, Shelvey, Konsa, Doughty or Phillips. Parker and Taylor though, different story.ForeverAddickted said:
Bit like Scott Parker...Chris_from_Sidcup said:
That's just standard football behaviour though isn't it?ForeverAddickted said:
I was talking in generalcafcfan1990 said:
No, I don't say that.ForeverAddickted said:
Is he rated by the likes of Gallen or is it like that fan who gave Powell the list of players we should sign only for Chris to politely explain why he wouldnt go for any of themcafcfan1990 said:
Then why not? Rated, with Famewo not ours and Inniss' injury record makes perfect sense if we're building for the future. Doesn't count under the cap and we can release Pearce in the summer.ForeverAddickted said:
Dont think we did...cafcfan1990 said:
Did we put a bid in for Jack Tucker, local lad, doesn't count under the cap?ForeverAddickted said:
So two people (Bowyer AND Gallen) say there werent any defenders available that would have strengthened usTodds_right_hook said:
It’s not like he has had a month to sort that out!!maddferrett said:This season is over and I don't blame Bowyer. We have no recognised centre backs to rely on. You can't win at football without a defence.
But we know better? - Who should we have signed then?
Its like what Bowyer said about Stockley, had PNE said to us, Bauer isnt good enough we want to ship him out to League One, do you think they'd have said "No thanks" - Had the right defender become available then I have no doubt we'd have signed one
Cant remember if Cawley said he was a genuine target or not
Its also staggering that we think we only have to throw money at Gillingham or Milton Keynes etc for their promising players... Yet when the boot is on the other foot and we dont want our youngsters to go further up the chain we're instantly saying that we should reject any offers regardless of the price because we need to build a team around them!!
Cmon though, if a Championship club had wanted Albie Morgan for even £2m in January, many of us would have been livid at Sandgaard for selling one of our youngsters - Yet there always appears the premise when we go in for other clubs kids that they should stand back and let us help ourselves for whatever the right price is
Sometimes there isnt a right price because that club actually want to try and push on with the player rather than constantly selling.
Didnt that exact scenario play out in the summer when teams tried to sign Alfie Doughty, the offer was stupid but the talk was we should keep him, try and get promotion with him and ensure that he signed a new deal so we didnt lose him for nothing in the summer
Sign a player from a smaller club - "can't blame him, bloke wants to progess his career at a better club for more money, welcome aboard"
Lose player to bigger club/club in higher league - "judas c*nt, there's no loyalty in football these days, fuck him"
Its also an argument I used last year (I was wrong on that occasion because of the transfer embargo) but I hate the January Transfer Window because you have a month to try and get in players, clubs are going to be even more reluctant to let players go the further you get into the window because its going to become even harder to find a replacement themselves, hence why Liverpool had to settle for a Championship Centre-Back.
I'm sure our transfer target list was a lot longer than just those names that Rich Cawley provides us with and Gallen certainly isnt going to start throwing names out there, that would be disrespectful to the player and parent club, bit like his comment last night about a player having to turn round and go home
I similarly can't believe that any of them would be worse than Gunter or Pratley.
It wasn't about the cap because we have got some money left.0 -
Eddie HoweDazzler21 said:
Actually agree with this. If we are to hire a new manager, they need to be familiar with the English game.ForeverAddickted said:
Whats the difference?FAVADDICK said:
I mean brining in a Danish manager it's hasn't done them bad has it and I would take anything to have Thomas Frank at this club over the shit we've got nowForeverAddickted said:
I always thought one of the fans beef with Roland was he kept hiring Managers who didnt know the English game?FAVADDICK said:AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.
And look where that got Brentford we need someone with no association with this club. To most people bowyer is now bigger then our club they support him more then charlton he can do no wrong in there eyes
Thats why he suddenly changed tact and brought in Slade and then Robinson
Roland brings in a Belgian Manager because he's Belgian
Sandgaard brings in a Danish Manager because he's Danish
Or do the Danes have special abilities over the Belgians to understand the English league better than their counterpart?
Just because Thomas Frank gets it doesnt mean the next bloke Sandgaard hires will, whatever country they're from
Personally I only believe we are considering that Sandgaard would bring in a Danish manager is because RD did it, not all owners will. We have Roddy and Gallen as part of our management team to help advise on who would be best.
I don’t for one minute think that he would come, but Eddie Howe has been unemployed since the summer.
That is the sort of manager that could improve any club.
It Thomas really wants to take us to the Premier in 5 seasons then he needs to employ a manager like Eddie.
Sadly if Bowyer remains in charge we will still be foundering in League 1 in two years time.
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It's slightly less prevalent on this forum, though there are plenty on here who won't have a single negative word against Bowyer, but on twitter and FB it's almost a cult like following of him.AFKABartram said:
This nonsense has been peddled out by quite a few people in recent weeks and is actually starting to make me angry.FAVADDICK said:AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.
To most people bowyer is now bigger then our club they support him more then charlton he can do no wrong in there eyesIt insinuates that if you’ve felt the best CURRENT course of action for our club is a short period of stability and opportunity for our existing manager to bed in recent squad changes and see key players return from injury, then that makes you less of a fan. That you are doing so for the betterment of an individual rather than the club you love.
You probably don’t intend it like but personally i find that really insulting.2 -
Ged Roddy was brought in specifically to "run" the football side of the club
His primary focus will be planning and implementing the club’s long-term footballing strategy with the initial aim of helping the club stabilise and ultimately getting the club back to the Premier League.
If that requires a change of manager, I'm sure he'll have a main input into the choice, especially with his contacts in the game.
I wonder how things would be if Thomas was over here more, and watching games live? Thomas's tweets are few and far between now, one when we equalised last night, and nothing since.0 -
Seems like some feel Lee is exempt from the sack because it's Lee Bowyer.
Of course everyone has a soft spot for him because of his history with us but if it was any other manager with no Charlton connections, we would've been collectively be calling for his head for a while.
It's not even just the results, it's the way we are playing. The way we are being set up each game is down to the manager and has been wrong for more than half of the season at least.
He holds far too many grudges as a manager as well. He needs to start managing individuals a bit better. I thought man management would be one of his strengths going into the job but it seems it's one of his flaws.
He is definitely a backs against the wall manager, us against everyone which showed when we had no money and a small young squad. But, as soon as he is able to assemble a better quality, larger squad he seems out of his depth and feels he needs to change something every week to get a reaction and that reaction is 9 times out of 10 a bad one.
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What worries me as much as the results is that players we’ve brought in and looked bright, fresh and quality early on are now looking much worse. Maatsen, Gunter and Matthews all look worse now than when they arrived. Players are going backwards. That’s either dressing room problems or that they don’t feel confident in what’s going on around them tactically. In any case something isn’t right and the performances both individually and collectively highlight that perfectly.19
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You'd have to sell the vision to him but I wouldn't rule it out completely.Billericaydickie said:
Eddie HoweDazzler21 said:
Actually agree with this. If we are to hire a new manager, they need to be familiar with the English game.ForeverAddickted said:
Whats the difference?FAVADDICK said:
I mean brining in a Danish manager it's hasn't done them bad has it and I would take anything to have Thomas Frank at this club over the shit we've got nowForeverAddickted said:
I always thought one of the fans beef with Roland was he kept hiring Managers who didnt know the English game?FAVADDICK said:AFKABartram said:Just a warning, all those saying get rid and expect a replacement like Cowley, Cook or whatever. There’s also the chance it could be a Dane or an American, or someone linked through one of Sandgaard associates with no UK football experience. Wouldn’t surprise me.
And look where that got Brentford we need someone with no association with this club. To most people bowyer is now bigger then our club they support him more then charlton he can do no wrong in there eyes
Thats why he suddenly changed tact and brought in Slade and then Robinson
Roland brings in a Belgian Manager because he's Belgian
Sandgaard brings in a Danish Manager because he's Danish
Or do the Danes have special abilities over the Belgians to understand the English league better than their counterpart?
Just because Thomas Frank gets it doesnt mean the next bloke Sandgaard hires will, whatever country they're from
Personally I only believe we are considering that Sandgaard would bring in a Danish manager is because RD did it, not all owners will. We have Roddy and Gallen as part of our management team to help advise on who would be best.
I don’t for one minute think that he would come, but Eddie Howe has been unemployed since the summer.
That is the sort of manager that could improve any club.
It Thomas really wants to take us to the Premier in 5 seasons then he needs to employ a manager like Eddie.
Sadly if Bowyer remains in charge we will still be foundering in League 1 in two years time.
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In a strange sort of way I can't help thinking that the desire to have cover in every position (and potential formation) is actually clouding LB's decision making - he actually has had too many options this season.
Take a look at these stats:
46 used in all competitions
33 used in the League (all will have started once Smith and Jayesimi do so). By comparison, Accrington, who have the same number of points with 4 games in hand, have only had 20 start. Lincoln, who will go top if they draw their game in hand, have only had 19 starting.
The self imposed confusion is, of course, most relevant when it comes to selecting our best midfield and forward line from this lot:
Pratley
Watson
Morgan
Vennings
Forster-Caskey
Gilbey
Shinnie
Smith
Millar
Jayesimi
Washington
Aneke
Stockley
Schwartz
14 current players for 6 positions. That's 3,003 different permutations available and it feels as if LB is working his way through all of them! How do you develop any continuity or understanding when you have that many options? And if we ever decide to play 5 at the back that will leave 9 of the above sitting on the bench or in the stands. No wonder the cap is an issue and we couldn't bring in a centre back in the window.
The reason the likes of Accrington and Lincoln are doing so well is because John Coleman and Michael Appleton have decided how they want their teams to play with the players they have at their disposal. And they will only make minor adjustments to that, I really do not think that LB is any nearer knowing the answer - and we are now well over half way through the season!
13 -
If there's no continuity in tactics/team selection it can't help the players. It all seems very confused.Addick Addict said:In a strange sort of way I can't help thinking that the desire to have cover in every position (and potential formation) is actually clouding LB's decision making - he actually has had too many options this season.
Take a look at these stats:
46 used in all competitions
33 used in the League (all will have started once Smith and Jayesimi do so). By comparison, Accrington, who have the same number of points with 4 games in hand, have only had 20 start. Lincoln, who will go top if they draw their game in hand, have only had 19 starting.
The self imposed confusion is, of course, most relevant when it comes to selecting our best midfield and forward line from this lot:
Pratley
Watson
Morgan
Vennings
Forster-Caskey
Gilbey
Shinnie
Smith
Millar
Jayesimi
Washington
Aneke
Stockley
Schwartz
14 current players for 6 positions. That's 3,003 different permutations available and it feels as if LB is working his way through all of them! How do you develop any continuity or understanding when you have that many options? And if we ever decide to play 5 at the back that will leave 9 of the above sitting on the bench or in the stands. No wonder the cap is an issue and we couldn't bring in a centre back in the window.
The reason the likes of Accrington and Lincoln are doing so well is because John Coleman and Michael Appleton have decided how they want their teams to play with the players they have at their disposal. And they will only make minor adjustments to that, I really do not think that LB is any nearer knowing the answer - and we are now well over half way through the season!
Will it change?
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He's got a very tough job on his hands at the moment: our run of form is awful - 4 wins in 17 is relegation form. His task is made even more difficult by the pandemic (yes I know everyone is dealing with it) - we have a lot of new players coming in and adapting to a new team, new home and not being able to do all of the things they would normally do to settle in. They can't go for meals together or have team building events to build morale - they can't invite the new players and their families over to make them feel more at home. They can't go away for a few days break etc.
I think most people are suffering one way or another from this pandemic mentally and it must be so hard to get a team of people out of a rut without all of the things you would normally do to rectify the situation at your disposal. Gilbey - he was quality before coming to us - is he in a bad place and therefore not performing? From a personal perspective, I am finding work much harder than usual due to the complete lack of social interaction and the groundhog day-like nature of weekends and free time.
I think turning this juggernaut of disappointment round this season is going to be an extremely difficult task.2 -
More like a relegate worthy one.ElfsborgAddick said:
A promote worthy post.roseandcrown said:
I’m just a little uneasy with getting rid without giving a chance after the window.Bolderhumphreyreid said:
Why wait for the inevitable? I really don’t get this attitude.roseandcrown said:
Agree give him to the end of the season and review then.se9addick said:Bowyer won’t be sacked this season, certainly not now, would be crazy to make that decision the day after the transfer window closes.
Not saying I agree with it, but that’s how I see it.
The excuses are drying up now.
I’m sure Bowyer said after the Rochdale debacle that that would never happen with a Pratley or a Watson on the pitch.
The players are so scared to not show they’re weak after the public shaming of Albie, Williams and Maddison that they’ve forgotten how to play football. The amount of stupid fouls we gave away tonight was horrendous.
I’m incredibly thankful for everything he’s done for the club over the past few years but we need to get out of this league and we’re not going to do it with him in charge.I am one of the first people to call for stability and patience something which is lacking in football now days, the club has been run short term for so long I wanna give a bit more time.I understand i might be in a minority now and I certainly am critical of team selection, tactics and chopping around this season but prepared to give the benefit of a bit more time.Mistakes have been made no denying that, all managers make mistakes I just want to give the opportunity to learn from them and fix it otherwise you could be changing managers so often which I am not a fan off.Bowyer has done some very good things as manager I don’t necessarily wanna give up on him the first bad patch.0 -
Just out of interest @Dazzler21 what amuses you about this post pray do tell. You don’t have to lol every persons post you disagree with, respect other people’s opinions. I thought you were better than that.RedChaser said:Nothing to do with emotion hoof it give the bloke a chance after the latest transfer window to the end of the season not one day ffs!4
This discussion has been closed.
