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Vaccine

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  • I do understand and share concern about "other" (i.e. unvaccinatable) vulnerable people but again - overall that comprises a very small proportion of the population and many of those vulnerable people are similarly vulnerable to serious illness from flu every year which we do not mass vaccinate against.

    As before above, I still don't see a clear compelling argument for fit healthy young people to be taking the vaccine. But I've done it so...
    How many avoidable deaths are required for a 'compelling argument'.
    I'll stake 10 to 1 you know nobody who's required treatment for Covid.

    This sort of "argument" was touted by some against compulsory seat belts in cars and helmets for motor-cycle drivers, but you're too young to have known a time when there was a choice. 
  • Billy_Mix said:
    How many avoidable deaths are required for a 'compelling argument'.
    I'll stake 10 to 1 you know nobody who's required treatment for Covid.

    This sort of "argument" was touted by some against compulsory seat belts in cars and helmets for motor-cycle drivers, but you're too young to have known a time when there was a choice. 
    Wrong. I know somebody I’m relatively close to who was in Basildon hospital on a ventilator in intensive care cos he was struggling with it, and he was from north london but there was no hospital capacity near him so he got shipped over there, and now has long covid.

    he is 58, obese and has diabetes. 

    I’ll take the tenner off ya when we’re back at the valley. 
  • Don't profess to have anything more than a very layman's understanding of science (or for that matter numbers!). And quite frankly that's why I posted on the first place - as I think I said in my very initial post, trying to see if there is an argument out there that changes my relatively uneducated but nonetheless thought-out opinion that vaccinating older and vulnerable people but not healthy young people should be the approach.

    Why should there be substantial (excess) deaths (and I think the word substantial is key here, some excess deaths have to unfortunately be expected), lockdowns and economic ruin if all of the over 50s and vulnerable are vaccinated now? If all the over 50s and vulnerable are vaccinated now - who make up the overwhelming majority of serious illnesses/deaths/hospitalisations - then the theory is that the overwhelming majority of them won't get seriously ill and therefore deaths and hospitalisations through Covid will be very low. Why does it then matter if the rest of the population don't have the "base level" of immunity you refer to and this takes some years to develop?


    Understood @cantersaddick
  • The compelling argument for everyone taking the vaccine is because every virologist, epidemiologist, physician and scientist and health statistician involved in this pandemic is saying we should. Despite what Michael Gove might believe, we haven’t had enough of experts. It’s these experts that got us out of trouble and I think taking their advice is quite a good idea. Of course if you can’t see that as a compelling reason then nothing will.
    Well fair enough. And I guess that’s why I cracked on with it. And ultimately I have no expectation of adverse impacts but ya know, I’ve explained my thought process 
  • JamesSeed said:
    I’d say it sort of is clear cut, unless you're looking for absolute 100% certainty, and as they say, nothing is certain except death and taxes. There are people refusing the vaccine because of a one in a million chance they’ll have a serious adverse reaction, which is a bit daft, and not in the interest of the  creating a society/world that can stamp out viruses if and when they arise. Of course ‘we’ (society) need to be vigilant, but at the end of the day I’m more than happy to leave it to the experts to advise me what to do. And if I turn out to be the unlucky one in a million, so be it. 
    But it certainly isn’t what I would call ‘an unknown gamble’. Vaccines have made the world a much better place for long enough for that not to be the case. 
    Only thing I’d say here which is an absolutely fundamental flaw , in my view, with the above, is the suggestion of a society stamping out a virus when it arises. If that was going to occur by everyone being vaccinated my mindset would be very, very different. But to quote the same trusted sources as SHG, there is no virologist, epidemiologist, physician or health statistician who is suggesting that is even a remote possibility with covid. 
  • Only thing I’d say here which is an absolutely fundamental flaw , in my view, with the above, is the suggestion of a society stamping out a virus when it arises. If that was going to occur by everyone being vaccinated my mindset would be very, very different. But to quote the same trusted sources as SHG, there is no virologist, epidemiologist, physician or health statistician who is suggesting that is even a remote possibility with covid. 

    It will never be stamped out - I agree. But vaccines, repeated as necessary, will hold it at bay until human physiology (immune system) evolves to deal with it as a mild condition rather than a killer. Exactly the same way humanity has evolved to deal with the Spanish Flu that is still in circulation today, although obviously it was tougher to deal with that pandemic 100 years ago as there were no vaccines.
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  • India has ordered 300 million doses of an unapproved coronavirus vaccine amid a devastating second wave. 

    The unnamed vaccine from Indian firm Biological E is in Phase 3 trials, and had showed "promising results" in the first two phases, the federal government said in a statement. 

  • bobmunro said:

    It will never be stamped out - I agree. But vaccines, repeated as necessary, will hold it at bay until human physiology (immune system) evolves to deal with it as a mild condition rather than a killer. Exactly the same way humanity has evolved to deal with the Spanish Flu that is still in circulation today, although obviously it was tougher to deal with that pandemic 100 years ago as there were no vaccines.
    And I suppose there may also be the possibility it evolves into a harmless variant at some point in the future. We can but hope!
  • Vaccines seem to be our main weapon of managing covid at present. Some countries are obviously really suffering.

    To an extent we have to rely on a degree of educated guesswork. Human beings crave certainty which is simply not there at present.


  • And I suppose there may also be the possibility it evolves into a harmless variant at some point in the future. We can but hope!
    Very, very likely, Mutts - if it follows the life cycle of pretty much every other virus known to man.
  • edited June 2021
    Which will ultimately be the best way out of this hell. In the meantime vaccines and caution has to be the way to go.
  • The UK has approved the use of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine in children aged 12-15, saying it is safe and effective in this age group and the benefits outweigh the risks.

    The MHRA said it had carried out a "rigorous review" of the vaccine in adolescents.

    The UK's vaccines committee will now decide whether children should get the jab.

  • The World Health Organization (WHO) has approved a second Chinese vaccine for emergency use. CoronaVac was found to be 51% effective at preventing COVID-19 in late-stage trials, and researchers say it will be key to curbing the pandemic.

    This overall protection is lower than that provided by the seven other vaccines already listed by the WHO. But, importantly, trials suggest that CoronaVac — an inactivated-virus vaccine produced by Beijing-based company Sinovac — is 100% effective at preventing severe disease and death.

    More details here:  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01497-8 

    (@Jessie, Nature is a well-regarded peer-reviewed periodical)

    I noticed a few days ago that CoronaVac has been used extensively in Chile, to good effect.  Perhaps that was the additional data the WHO had been waiting for?    

  • Got jabbed up with Pfizer yesterday. 

    My arm feels like its been punched repeatedly and I feel pretty run down today. 
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  • Got jabbed up with Pfizer yesterday. 

    My arm feels like its been punched repeatedly and I feel pretty run down today. 
    I could barely get dressed this morning with the arm!!
  • I could barely get dressed this morning with the arm!!
    Any other symptoms?
  • edited June 2021
    Making steady progress here in Spain after a slow start and some pauses: 40% have now received one dose and 22% both doses.

    15,000 fans in the Metropolitano tonight for Spain v Portugal. Should be getting my second dose there in next few weeks ☺️
    We've not sent you the Indian (Delta) variant yet-:neutral:
  • Any other symptoms?
    Feeling fairly achey, quite like day 1 of the actual virus , but basically alright 
  • IdleHans said:
    Second AZ today, barely felt the needle.
    Only side effect - I can no longer walk past the pub on the way home, it seems.
    Due to join up with some mates on the bermondsey mile the day after my second, sounds like a good side effect to me.

    If I feel like I did after the first, I won't be going.
  • Had moderna jab last night - arm is in agony and difficult to sleep so pretty tired any Tips on how to stop it from hurting?. 
  • Feeling fairly achey, quite like day 1 of the actual virus , but basically alright 
    An aching arm was all I had but a few minor symptoms probably shows it is working.
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