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Rumours Rumours - Summer 2021 edition (Deadline Day from p814)
Comments
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Er…so was IDazzler21 said:
He's being sarcastic.ShootersHillGuru said:
Generally though a rebuild means signing players.oohaahmortimer said:Let’s all just wait till the end of the January window and give everyone a chance and then next summer we can have a proper rebuild because the foundations will be in place .
You can tell it’s much better doing the rebuild from here in league one than if we’d sneaked promotion last season0 -
Things are going to turn sour very quickly if we don't make some significant signings soon.
This "pathway to the first team" stuff is starting to make me wince too.
It's fecking meaningless if the kids aren't good enough.16 -
Currently it is less of a pathway and more a high speed railway line. Kids benefit from the experience of playing but not as much if the side they are in is not that competitive.Six-a-bag-of-nuts said:Things are going to turn sour very quickly if we don't make some significant signings soon.
This "pathway to the first team" stuff is starting to make me wince too.
It's fecking meaningless if the kids aren't good enough.1 -
wasn’t Vetokele rumoured to have been 3m eurosPowellsHeadedGoal said:
Didn't he spend that (or close to it) on Piotr Parzyszek? I can recall hearing it was a far old whack.RonnieMoore said:
When did Roland spend 800,000 ?SELR_addicks said:Having potentially a worse transfer window than one under Roland takes some doing.
We need a lot of players, and only have 3 weeks to get them in.
Nicky Ajose was a fair amount too if memory serves.
Also Naby Sarr, Patrick Bauer, Vetokele, Tucudean, Teixeira..0 -
I am and always have been an optimistic person, but if nothing has happened by the weekend I might start to join the dissenting voices. We need a left sided player ASAP.5
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Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era14
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Grass was always greener on the other side springs to mind.Rothko said:Quiet enjoying the revisionism of the RD era3 -
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This "we have a budget" mantra is bugging me a bit too.
Yes, it makes perfect business sense in principle and I get it that Tommy isn't going to throw millions at the project.
But the fact is we needed a substantial squad overhaul in this window.
I anticipated that this would mean a significant recruitment campaign to acquire the quality we need on contracts that meant we are not faced with any more major recruitment needs for the foreseeable.
To that end I would naturally expect this to require a comparatively sizeable budget on this occasion.
Now I have no idea what our budget is but because the fact we have one is frequently mentioned suggests to me that just maybe it is too restrictive for our needs and that maybe a little flexibility is called for.
(Please spare me the crass "it's not your money" shit)
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I've generally been more on the "wait and see" side of the equation thus far but it is definitely beginning to smell a bit odd.
Yes we have a budget and yes there are probably all sorts of other issues that complicate things but to go this long with nary a peep of a signing and this close to the end of the window it's one hell of a gamble to presume it's all going to miraculously fall into place last minute.
Bringing the youth through when they're ready is a laudable plan but falls through given that with one or two exceptions they're manifestly NOT ready yet.10 -
We always knew that we’ve got four more loans coming in late. Some I expect on deadline day but it’s starting to look to me as if with the exception of Charlie Kirk we don’t really have any permanent irons in the fire and are now being forced to make it up as we go. We’ve missed out on targets without doubt and I’m beginning to think we’ve even missed out on targets way down our list. The Kirk deal is obviously beyond our control but I’d now rather cut back on our loan quota and spend a little more on a couple of quality players. This might force the likes of Deji and Clayden into the mix but we desperately need a couple of quality seasoned pros pdq.1
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If you talk about blowing through this league, getting to the Premier League within 5 years, regular European football beyond that, bring in a relatively big name manager who talks about ambition it probably isn’t a surprise if potential signings expect a good wage and clubs expect big fees.
I get that TS was excited about his plans and wanted to share them. We also know the market is slow due to various things, but I wonder if the above has only made it harder for ourselves. If definitely raised fan expectations and I include myself in that.
He can’t unsay what was said but it looks like that may have been recognised with TS talking about the top 6 in his interview with the fans adviser.23 -
I have a feeling that sandgaard is a person who learns from his mistakes (unlike duchatelet), however I think in this window he’s made a mistake by leaving any business far too late and putting too much faith in the youth. Just a bit naive, like the schwartz transfer (thinking some one who can score in Denmark can do it anywhere) and playing addicks to victory instead of red red robin. As I said, I think he learns from mistakes, but unfortunately he has to make them first.2
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2500 new posts, not sure i can handle the catch up does anyone want to give me the summary? rumours ideally...0
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How do we know that it is TS that is to blame? Maybe its Gallen who thinks a player is not worth the money?kentaddick said:I have a feeling that sandgaard is a person who learns from his mistakes (unlike duchatelet), however I think in this window he’s made a mistake by leaving any business far too late and putting too much faith in the youth. Just a bit naive, like the schwartz transfer (thinking some one who can score in Denmark can do it anywhere) and playing addicks to victory instead of red red robin. As I said, I think he learns from mistakes, but unfortunately he has to make them first.2 -
I blame them. Purposely walking down the stairs to shout and swear at our manager after one league and one cup game is pathetic.cs1986 said:
Fair comment. 1 shot on target in 2 games. 0 goals. It's awful. I don't blame someone doing that.Scoham said:
Surprised it was only one person and not the entire crowd.PWADDICK said:Some absolute twat in extra time walked down the stairs behind the dugout and shouted “Adkins sign some fucking player”We all know we need new players in now, but shouting and swearing at the manager is odd, and that’s putting it kindly.22 -
Summary: Kirk may be still on, but his dad died so delayed understandably. No other solid rumours.johnnybev1987 said:2500 new posts, not sure i can handle the catch up does anyone want to give me the summary? rumours ideally...2 -
Oh shit, thats not good. Well him signing would be, i saw on twitter essentially he was signing but wasn't really sure if there was much else going on. Really feel we need a playmaker (Morgan isn't quite there for me, Gilbey is decent but no idea when he is returning), also a pacey striker who can finish would work well.Jonniesta said:
Summary: Kirk may be still on, but his dad died so delayed understandably. No other solid rumours.johnnybev1987 said:2500 new posts, not sure i can handle the catch up does anyone want to give me the summary? rumours ideally...
I don't feel we are far off but a couple of key cogs, i am struggling to see where the goals will come from? Stockley is a beast but needs someone who is going to run off him and hassle defenders2 -
johnnybev1987 said:2500 new posts, not sure i can handle the catch up does anyone want to give me the summary? rumours ideally...
No probs, rumours as follows:
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Or Roddy - Someone made a comment the other day saying there are too many cookscafc999 said:
How do we know that it is TS that is to blame? Maybe its Gallen who thinks a player is not worth the money?kentaddick said:I have a feeling that sandgaard is a person who learns from his mistakes (unlike duchatelet), however I think in this window he’s made a mistake by leaving any business far too late and putting too much faith in the youth. Just a bit naive, like the schwartz transfer (thinking some one who can score in Denmark can do it anywhere) and playing addicks to victory instead of red red robin. As I said, I think he learns from mistakes, but unfortunately he has to make them first.
Can understand Sandgaard wanting a say, along with Adkins as he'll be working with the players... But whilst I'm sure (at least I hope) there was a meeting at the end of the season to discuss targets, I'm equally sure that some of those targets are no longer available, either because they've gone elsewhere or because the club refuse to sell.
It then leaves you waiting for players to become available (Sean Clare and Josh Cullen are two examples that we've signed after they've suddenly become options out of the blue) - Are the "Holy Four" then messing around with Zoom meetings discussing whether its even worth going after this new target, with that hesitation ultimately slowly us down and allowing others to nip in.2 -
I think this is a genuine mistake by Sandgaard rather than him having lied or misled anyone on purpose. My suspicion is that he really did underestimate the difficulty/cost of doing business (maybe blindsided by the extra hazards of Covid and the ramifications).kentaddick said:I have a feeling that sandgaard is a person who learns from his mistakes (unlike duchatelet), however I think in this window he’s made a mistake by leaving any business far too late and putting too much faith in the youth. Just a bit naive, like the schwartz transfer (thinking some one who can score in Denmark can do it anywhere) and playing addicks to victory instead of red red robin. As I said, I think he learns from mistakes, but unfortunately he has to make them first.
I hope he can learn from it and alter his plans accordingly but it does still leave us very short and under prepared in the short term, which will affect the whole season if we're not very lucky.2 -
orpingtonRED said:Bowyer not playing any of the youngsters put the academy back 18 months, I have watched a lot of u23's football, your just seeing the players that fit into the formation that the 1st team play, If we are going to play the u23s players like Powell should be given more of a chance
You may be right they ain't good enough. But our catchment area and academy has shown we do produce some very decent players. Find it hard to believe that only Doughty has the ability to progress. Lee didn't play youngsters unless his hands were tied. I think that was a mistake.cs1986 said:
Got ya. I am all for our youngsters if they are good enough but I feel we have a poor crop at moment. Deji looks a prospect. Not much else there for me unfortunately.orpingtonRED said:
Sorry was using Lincoln as an example that overhauled their squad well.cs1986 said:
I am not sure what you mean here. I love the Defence and Keeper - maybe another left back. The midfield is not great. We also desperately need wingers and a goal scorer.orpingtonRED said:
We payed our players a lot more than Lincoln last season and they done well.cs1986 said:
It is a term to state how much investment we need in this squad of players. I dont think for a second we should be paying lads 10k a week in this league or spending fortunes but we need significant investment in the playing squad. We aren't close to having a competitive squad so it's significant.orpingtonRED said:
Significant investment is a phrase I'm not comfortable with. It seems to be an excuse to pressure owners to spend to keep up with others.cs1986 said:
We aint getting anywhere near the Championship without significant investment.orpingtonRED said:
To play devil's advocateDave Rudd said:It's painfully clear that the current squad is nowhere good enough to challenge for promotion ... either automatic or via the play-offs.
Yes, we have some time to improve the squad, but we've left ourselves a lot to do.
Even with what we have, we look like a hoofball team aiming for Stockley's head.
OK, so that's Plan A. There is no apparent Plan B.
Is the honeymoon over for Sandgaard? Yes, he has saved the Club. But he has shot himself in the foot with the fine words about reaching the Premier League in five years.
If we believe what we read, we also committed to a £500k per year rental agreement with Duchatelet for the next 15 years. Nice. And someone else with have to deal with the consequences when that agreement comes to an end.
No significant investment in what was going to be a Summer of Love where we built a squad to "blow it out of this division."
Sandgaard seems to be a nice guy, with honourable intent. But I sense that the cost of his dreams is now dawning upon him ... and he's coming up short.
Football is not a place to make money, Thomas. In fact, the opposite.
If you want into this, you have to do better.
Ipswich are throwing money about and bought a lot but not winning either
Lincoln proved last season that you can compete in this league without spending too much. Tom may be saving his money for until we get to the Championship. Then he spunkz it all and gambles.
That's the feeling I get from the guy.
Our academy's best prospects have been taken year on year and we are left with the lesser prospects. Our professional squad lacks any stand out players.
We have signed 2 league 1 cast offs in midfield who may improve. Stockley is a good signing but needs to play in a 2. He doesn't score enough to play up top on his own.
Our 20/21/22 year old players aren't good enough.
We chose to pay big wages for Watson Gunter Matthews and countless others.
I'd rather us try our youngsters than pay these wallies money.
I'm in a minority I know mate.
I agree we should never have signed Gunter Watson and other similar.
Let's hope Nigel doesn't do the same.
There is a new Alex Ferguson documentary on Amazon if you are able to see it it it's very good. He talks about how he chose young players it was fascinating.
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It can very much be a distinct possibility, but then again if we snapped Clare up in 48 hours - then perhaps it's more of a case of just really waiting for the right player to become available.ForeverAddickted said:
Or Roddy - Someone made a comment the other day saying there are too many cookscafc999 said:
How do we know that it is TS that is to blame? Maybe its Gallen who thinks a player is not worth the money?kentaddick said:I have a feeling that sandgaard is a person who learns from his mistakes (unlike duchatelet), however I think in this window he’s made a mistake by leaving any business far too late and putting too much faith in the youth. Just a bit naive, like the schwartz transfer (thinking some one who can score in Denmark can do it anywhere) and playing addicks to victory instead of red red robin. As I said, I think he learns from mistakes, but unfortunately he has to make them first.
Can understand Sandgaard wanting a say, along with Adkins as he'll be working with the players... But whilst I'm sure (at least I hope) there was a meeting at the end of the season to discuss targets, I'm equally sure that some of those targets are no longer available, either because they've gone elsewhere or because the club refuse to sell.
It then leaves you waiting for players to become available (Sean Clare and Josh Cullen are two examples that we've signed after they've suddenly become options out of the blue) - Are the "Holy Four" then messing around with Zoom meetings discussing whether its even worth going after this new target, with that hesitation ultimately slowly us down and allowing others to nip in.
On that note though I've never really felt comfortable with the idea of Sandgaard being involved in transfer discussion at all. I of course understand that ultimately its his money, but with the Schwartz transfer, and always the chance that he may have said no to someone Gallen/Adkins wanted - it does make me slightly uncomfortable.5 -
If he's that wet around the ears then this could be a bumpy old ride.kentaddick said:I have a feeling that sandgaard is a person who learns from his mistakes (unlike duchatelet), however I think in this window he’s made a mistake by leaving any business far too late and putting too much faith in the youth. Just a bit naive, like the schwartz transfer (thinking some one who can score in Denmark can do it anywhere) and playing addicks to victory instead of red red robin. As I said, I think he learns from mistakes, but unfortunately he has to make them first.1 -
Yeah in the future might even be best if Sandgaard tells Gallen that he has £1m to sign whoever he wants - Of course in that situation the buck then stops with Gallen / Adkins if it doesnt work and they can then be replaced if needbeFishCostaFortune said:
It can very much be a distinct possibility, but then again if we snapped Clare up in 48 hours - then perhaps it's more of a case of just really waiting for the right player to become available.ForeverAddickted said:
Or Roddy - Someone made a comment the other day saying there are too many cookscafc999 said:
How do we know that it is TS that is to blame? Maybe its Gallen who thinks a player is not worth the money?kentaddick said:I have a feeling that sandgaard is a person who learns from his mistakes (unlike duchatelet), however I think in this window he’s made a mistake by leaving any business far too late and putting too much faith in the youth. Just a bit naive, like the schwartz transfer (thinking some one who can score in Denmark can do it anywhere) and playing addicks to victory instead of red red robin. As I said, I think he learns from mistakes, but unfortunately he has to make them first.
Can understand Sandgaard wanting a say, along with Adkins as he'll be working with the players... But whilst I'm sure (at least I hope) there was a meeting at the end of the season to discuss targets, I'm equally sure that some of those targets are no longer available, either because they've gone elsewhere or because the club refuse to sell.
It then leaves you waiting for players to become available (Sean Clare and Josh Cullen are two examples that we've signed after they've suddenly become options out of the blue) - Are the "Holy Four" then messing around with Zoom meetings discussing whether its even worth going after this new target, with that hesitation ultimately slowly us down and allowing others to nip in.
On that note though I've never really felt comfortable with the idea of Sandgaard being involved in transfer discussion at all. I of course understand that ultimately its his money, but with the Schwartz transfer, and always the chance that he may have said no to someone Gallen/Adkins wanted - it does make me slightly uncomfortable.5 -
When did you ketch up with him?cafc4life said:Just spoke to my sauce again, he said the 3 Defos from today have been delayed til tomorrow as there is now a fourth and they’ll all be announced early doors, 5pm ish.
Damn FA got there first.1 -
Here's how (I think) transfers may be working.
1.
Adkins meets with Gallen and suggests the kind of players he needs, gives the requirements of what they MUST have and probably even names some that do the job of such players.
2.
Gallen goes out, taps up contacts and uses his relationships to find players that match Adkins requirements - Comes back to Adkins to check suitability
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When NA & SG are happy I'd hope it was straight to Sandgaard, but I fear this is where Roddy steps in. (I don't get what he does regarding transfers at this time), but in my head for transfers, he basically has to also ratify the signing before it can get to Sandgaard. Maybe he's acting as some sort of buffer to ensure we don't put forward signings over a certain price that don't add enough resale value etc?
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When it gets to Sandgaard I would assume the case is put forward on what the player brings, what their resale potential might be, how much we might need to spend to get them and whether they may or may not be able to make the step up.
Alternative
The other thing that may occur is you roll up the meetings where Gallen comes back to a 4-way between Adkins, Gallen, Roddy & Sandgaard and they thrash it out whilst chugging Monster's and listening to rap metal.5 -
In my experience, this is how it should work.Dazzler21 said:Here's how ( I think) Transfers may be working.
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Adkins suggests the kind of players he needs, gives the requirements of what they MUST have and probably even names some that do the job of such players.
2.
Gallen goes out, taps up contacts and uses his relationships to find players that match Adkins requirements - Comes back to Adkins to check suitability
3.
When NA & SG are happy I'd hope it was straight to Sandgaard, but I fear this is where Roddy steps in. I don't get what he does, but he basically has to also ratify the signing before it can get to Sandgaard. Maybe he's acting as some sort of buffer to ensure we don't put forward signings over a certain price that don't add enough resale value etc?
4.
When it gets to Sandgaard I would assume the case is put forward on what the player brings, what their resale potential might be, how much we might need to spend to get them and whether they may or may not be able to make the step up.
Alternative
The other thing that may occur is you roll up the meetings where Gallen comes back to a 4-way between Adkins, Gallen, Roddy & Sandgaard and they thrash it out whilst chugging Monster's and listening to rap metal.
1. Owner (TS) sets the budget (transfer fee and wages)
2. Manager (NA) tells head of recruitment (SG) who/what he wants.
3. Head of recruitment draws up a shortlist
4. Manager reviews shortlist and selects those he wants to pursue.
5. Head of recruitment asks current club for permission to talk to player (yes, I know!!).
6. If player is interested the CEO (we don't have one but it could be Roddy in this instance) negotiates with player/club/agent within the confines of the budgets set in 1) above.
7. If agreement (within budget) is reached then player signs).
8. If agreement cannot be reached but manager wants to pursue further then CEO discusses budget with owner. If it can be increased then repeat 6) and 7).
9. If no agreement reached within an acceptable budget then all parties move on.
For us point 6 may be the issue.6 -
Nah the more I think about it, I'm sure it's the alternative.
(You're likely spot on Bob, is Ged Roddy known for his negotiating skills?)0
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