Wayne Rooney's Derby County - not any more (p41)

Fanny Fanackapan said:

killerandflash said:

The playing assets Derby have are a few talented youngsters. Most of their squads are short contract free transfers and journeymen

It's still shocking when you think of the playoff final in 2019 vs Villa, which was a sliding doors moment for both sides. If Derby had gone up, Villa would be the ones facing financial disaster now (or earlier)

Kristian Bielik, please .

Croydon said:

Why's it only -12 points? I thought admin was 30

PrincessFiona said:

ShootersHillGuru said:

Is there any sensible estimate of what the Derby total debts currently are ?

I've read 50 to 70 million

Sage said:

killerandflash said:

Away from Derby, I hadn't realised that Reading also are facing a points deduction (up to 9 points) for financial irregularities

They play each other on Wednesday too.

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Swindon_Addick said:

The eventual deal to emerge from administration will involve paying 100% of some debts, including money owed to players and to other clubs for transfer fees, and negotiating a percentage with their creditors on the others. If that percentage is less than 25%, they get hit with another points deduction. If they don't pay all their footballing debts, the penalty is much harsher - expulsion from the League and potentially needing to re-start 5 levels below. Anyone who buys them is going to want to pay all the footballing debts and negotiate the percentage that goes to other creditors as low as they can get it.

So millionaire footballers get paid, small local businesses go bust. That sounds fair

Never understood this.

Surely there should be a rule that all creditors must get at least 75% of what is owed to come out of admin. It's pathetic that players will get millions paid to them in full, whilst a smaller business (a caterer for example) might only get 10-20% of what they're owed and face potential ruin over a few thousand.

killerandflash said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Swindon_Addick said:

The eventual deal to emerge from administration will involve paying 100% of some debts, including money owed to players and to other clubs for transfer fees, and negotiating a percentage with their creditors on the others. If that percentage is less than 25%, they get hit with another points deduction. If they don't pay all their footballing debts, the penalty is much harsher - expulsion from the League and potentially needing to re-start 5 levels below. Anyone who buys them is going to want to pay all the footballing debts and negotiate the percentage that goes to other creditors as low as they can get it.

So millionaire footballers get paid, small local businesses go bust. That sounds fair

Never understood this.

Surely there should be a rule that all creditors must get at least 75% of what is owed to come out of admin. It's pathetic that players will get millions paid to them in full, whilst a smaller business (a caterer for example) might only get 10-20% of what they're owed and face potential ruin over a few thousand.

It's the EFL's rules, voted for by the EFL owners, not going to vote themselves out of pocket are they? 

But should the government allow this?

If football clubs realised their transfer fee income was at risk, maybe they'd be more watchful of who they dealt with, or insist on the fee being paid up front instead of being spread over several years?

Swindon_Addick said:

Insisting on football debts being paid in full is essential to protect the league - otherwise a large club could go into administration, pay 25% to everyone and then leave smaller clubs who they owed money to facing going bust themselves due to losing 75% of a transfer fee they were expecting and had based their budgets on.

Personally I'd make the penalties tougher - I know the National League have tougher rules than the EFL which can lead to clubs being demoted. I think (don't quote me on this) they may actually require all debts to be paid in full, not just footballing ones. If the penalty for not paying all creditors in full was to spend the next season in non-league, that might focus a few minds. But it's still useful for football clubs to know that if they don't pay their football creditors they end up 5 levels below the league, as clubs emerging from administration have a strong incentive to avoid that penalty.

killerandflash said:

Cafc43v3r said:

killerandflash said:

Cafc43v3r said:

killerandflash said:

Cafc43v3r said:

Chris_from_Sidcup said:

Todds_right_hook said:

Swindon_Addick said:

The eventual deal to emerge from administration will involve paying 100% of some debts, including money owed to players and to other clubs for transfer fees, and negotiating a percentage with their creditors on the others. If that percentage is less than 25%, they get hit with another points deduction. If they don't pay all their footballing debts, the penalty is much harsher - expulsion from the League and potentially needing to re-start 5 levels below. Anyone who buys them is going to want to pay all the footballing debts and negotiate the percentage that goes to other creditors as low as they can get it.

So millionaire footballers get paid, small local businesses go bust. That sounds fair

Never understood this.

Surely there should be a rule that all creditors must get at least 75% of what is owed to come out of admin. It's pathetic that players will get millions paid to them in full, whilst a smaller business (a caterer for example) might only get 10-20% of what they're owed and face potential ruin over a few thousand.

It's the EFL's rules, voted for by the EFL owners, not going to vote themselves out of pocket are they? 

But should the government allow this?

If football clubs realised their transfer fee income was at risk, maybe they'd be more watchful of who they dealt with, or insist on the fee being paid up front instead of being spread over several years?

The penalty for not paying your "football debts" is potentially explosion.  Not sure how the government can or should decide who the EFL let play in their league?

But why should a debt owed to a football club be treated differently to a debt owed to caterers or a security company?

That's not how insolvency works elsewhere, where all unsecured creditors are classified the same

Legally they are but if you don't pay your football debts you get kicked out of the league.  It's not the same as insolvency law.  I suppose you could "come out of administration" with a new owner who then pays the football debts so you can play in the league? 

Maybe all clubs should contribute to a fund to help pay off football related debts if a club goes into admin? With strict point penalties for anyone having to use it, so new owners would have the choice of taking the points hit and money, or paying off the debts themselves