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Adkins Out? - Match Thread
Comments
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Do we read anything into the fact TS has not leapt to NA’s support post match? Maybe we’ll see it later today, but is that telling.0
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We all know he’s a nice guy, but, so what.
He is either so tactfully unaware for the modern game, lost the dressing room or we have a squad dominated by mercenaries who don’t give a shit and are happy to take the wages regardless of results and performance10 -
Parky was a nice guy too but I think most of us could see it was time for him to be replaced10
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Just checking in. Has he got the Spanish Archer yet?0
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Can the mods please change the thread title? There really is no need for the question mark any more.2
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Parkinson was sacked and nothing improved when he was replaced until we rebuilt the squad. We ended up 13th that season as CP found out how bad the squad was.East Kent Addick said:Parky was a nice guy too but I think most of us could see it was time for him to be replaced2 -
two is a coincidence, many more and it'll be a pattern.SouthLincsAddick said:There is a pattern emerging, since TS has taken over two well respected mangers have seemed to have lost the plot and acted out of character, trying strange formations and continually chopping and changing the team with terrible results on the pitch. I’ve no idea if that’s because of TS, Roddy, poor recruitment or just a coincidence but something in the grand plan is not working at the moment.2 -
Bowyer mainly stuck with his favoured formations. He did try a few strange tactical switches like making Deji no1 creative outlet - against Burton was it? But we started to improve, when he had way too slowly, realised none of our cm's could play an effective diamond. However long he took he did identify the problem.
Adkins uses a bewildering array of formations, when our personnel have blown up in every single one. Then he utilises a 442 where we have only Davison and Clare as players who you'd back to win a 50-50. Two players in the front 6 who'll win more tackles than they'll lose? Even if you were top of the table you'll not win many like that.
Adkins tells us week after week that we have players not fully aerobically and/or match fit. Then he plays at least 3 in our front 6, and doesn't change them around the 55-60 minute mark, but in the last 12 minutes. The Bolton coach tells us their whole identity under him, is their energy in the final 1/3 of the match? What was Adkins thinking? It doesn't sound like we were outplaying them, and Leko and Taylor never look like being players who know when to dig in or when to follow runners - even if they were match fit.
We really need to be hard to beat for when the bad weather hits. Adkins has comprehensively proven he is not capable of this at Charlton. I wish Nigel Adkins the best, and empathise the pressure is awful on any manager, but he is nowhere near par in what he's brought to the club: Our team, and bounce last season was already in place before he came. If he didn't identify that he needed younger and more energetic full backs, and younger and more dynamic midfielders then he didn't bring much to us after being out the game for 18 months.3 -
Me too.Valley11 said:Felt a bit sorry for him in that interview. He looked beaten. He’s obviously a decent human.
He's clearly a very decent human being and he doesn't deserve all the shitty comments coming his way at present.
And whilst easy to blame him, there are more than a few players who aren't covering themselves in glory at the moment if it is true what a few posters are saying about them. Supposedly some of them fell out with Bowyer. Now supposedly they have done the same with Adkins. How many more managers do they want before they agree to start trying and justify their inflated salaries? I do hope the bad eggs are identified and packed off out of the club asap.
This doesn't mean I don't think NA should go. I fear things have gone too sour for him to turn it around now. But the blame for our dismal form this year doesn't just rest on his shoulders.
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East Kent Addick said:
But does JJ coach the defence to play with virtually no support from midfield like last night? That formation we started with was fine when we were on the attack and pressing but as soon as Bolton got back into the game our midfield couldn't cope - the 2 wide players didn't track back, Lee stayed upfield which left Watson and Clare (neither of whom are natural CDM's) isolated and overrun and with only an attacking mid (Gilbey) and an unfit crock (Arter) on the bench. I think we ended up with a 4-1-5 formation at the end - that's down to the manager. Add to that the fact that we don't appear to have a decent right back on our books. They may be Welsh internationals but both Matthews and Gunter have been caught out too many times not getting the basics of defending right.ShootersHillGuru said:
Who coaches the defence ? I don’t know for certain and perhaps I’m off beam but our defence is appalling at present.Phil said:The short term solution is easy but will never happen. Remove Adkins and Roddy. Replace them with JJ and Euell and Curbs. Get in a decent and proven CEO ( Varney would be ideal ). Use the time to either back the new management duo or seek an alternative.
For those that feel JJ is too tied to Adkins and what's happened, I'd point to his ongoing 100% record as manager when it's left to him.
More than that, other than when Adkins had Covid, we haven't heard a peep out of JJ. We see little of him on the touchline either. Why is that?
Can we seriously believe that this intelligent and passionate man agrees with Nigel's approach in recent weeks? I'm not having it.
I think he's the man for the job especially if backed with Euell and Curbs as I suggest.
Sadly, not even the Adkins going part may happen yet!
Oh dear, what a mess!
This is exactly how I saw it.
We played with two wide players and a triangle in the centre of midfield ... Lee at the front and Watson and Clare as the base.
Going forward, that's OK ... but when we lose possession, either the two wide players have track back to avoid the regular overload (not just last night, but in every game so far) that our full-backs experience ... or one of Watson and Clare have to move across to support Matthews or Purrington.
None of this happened, so we get done at full-back time and time again.
Either the midfield players have not been told what to do, or they are incapable of doing it.
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Is it even two though? Bowyer was chopping and changing long before TS turned up.Dazzler21 said:
two is a coincidence, many more and it'll be a pattern.SouthLincsAddick said:There is a pattern emerging, since TS has taken over two well respected mangers have seemed to have lost the plot and acted out of character, trying strange formations and continually chopping and changing the team with terrible results on the pitch. I’ve no idea if that’s because of TS, Roddy, poor recruitment or just a coincidence but something in the grand plan is not working at the moment.0 -
The main issue for me is we have no one in house who has the experience to assess what has gone wrong.
It feels like a repeat of Dowie - this is the structure, work within it. It didn't work then, it isn't working now.8 -
Whether we need a CEO, need to change our recruitment setup and strategy etc are all things for TS to work out, but that’s about short and long term plans.
We’re 10 games in and currently in the relegation zone. In the short term the players need a lift, a manager they’ll play for and someone the fans will get behind.
Our attacking play has improved recently but it’s leaving us for too open. NAs positivity was exactly what the squad needed last season, but I get the impression some of the squad are no longer buying into it.
I agree with @LargeAddick, we need a young upcoming manager who gets his teams playing good football. I don’t know who but I’m sure there are managers out there doing well at smaller clubs who would take the step up.
There are weaknesses at full back and central midfield that we should aim to address in January, but for now we need to improve defensively and grind out a few wins.2 -
Although that was mainly due to our injury crisis and transfer embargo in the Championship. In League 1 he had to contend with a continuing embargo in the close season followed by a salary cap. What's Adkins' excuse for not knowing his best team - either the recruitment team have let him down badly or he stupidly believed last season's squad was good enough to compete with a few additions.bobmunro said:
Is it even two though? Bowyer was chopping and changing long before TS turned up.Dazzler21 said:
two is a coincidence, many more and it'll be a pattern.SouthLincsAddick said:There is a pattern emerging, since TS has taken over two well respected mangers have seemed to have lost the plot and acted out of character, trying strange formations and continually chopping and changing the team with terrible results on the pitch. I’ve no idea if that’s because of TS, Roddy, poor recruitment or just a coincidence but something in the grand plan is not working at the moment.3 -
People saying 'well who would you get in' are wasting their time.
We dont have the networks that professional football clubs should have when it comes to knowledge of coaches or managers.
For example, MK Dons lost a good young manager in Russell Martin to Swansea and replaced him with a young bloke who started coaching for City Group and then went to the Belgian 2nd Division. They appointed him and they've lost 1 game this season.
There are talented football people out there.14 -
We made the mistake last season in bringing in a lot experienced players who were no longer up to it, leaving us lacking pace and energy.ValleyGary said:People saying 'well who would you get in' are wasting their time.
We dont have the networks that professional football clubs should have when it comes to knowledge of coaches or managers.
For example, MK Dons lost a good young manager in Russell Martin to Swansea and replaced him with a young bloke who started coaching for City Group and then went to the Belgian 2nd Division. They appointed him and they've lost 1 game this season.
There are talented football people out there.
TS made the same mistake with Adkins, thinking experience is needed rather than someone hungry to prove themselves who gets teams playing more modern football.
Completely agree there are options out there. Other clubs have proven that with their appointments and success.4 -
boggzy said:
Did you feel the same way about Curbishley?Maccn05 said:It really irritates me that Adkins doesn’t come over, ever to the fans and thank them. Bow did it every game no matter the result - it creates a bond and earns respect
It’s certainly a reason I’ve not warmed to him. It makes him look like a coward IMO
No I wasn't old enough to notice or care back then.0 -
TS seems to have surrounded himself with people who are not fit for purpose, admittedly a lot was left over from the previous regime, time for a complete change.0
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Watson or Clare moving across would leave a massive hole in the middle of the parkDave Rudd said:East Kent Addick said:
But does JJ coach the defence to play with virtually no support from midfield like last night? That formation we started with was fine when we were on the attack and pressing but as soon as Bolton got back into the game our midfield couldn't cope - the 2 wide players didn't track back, Lee stayed upfield which left Watson and Clare (neither of whom are natural CDM's) isolated and overrun and with only an attacking mid (Gilbey) and an unfit crock (Arter) on the bench. I think we ended up with a 4-1-5 formation at the end - that's down to the manager. Add to that the fact that we don't appear to have a decent right back on our books. They may be Welsh internationals but both Matthews and Gunter have been caught out too many times not getting the basics of defending right.ShootersHillGuru said:
Who coaches the defence ? I don’t know for certain and perhaps I’m off beam but our defence is appalling at present.Phil said:The short term solution is easy but will never happen. Remove Adkins and Roddy. Replace them with JJ and Euell and Curbs. Get in a decent and proven CEO ( Varney would be ideal ). Use the time to either back the new management duo or seek an alternative.
For those that feel JJ is too tied to Adkins and what's happened, I'd point to his ongoing 100% record as manager when it's left to him.
More than that, other than when Adkins had Covid, we haven't heard a peep out of JJ. We see little of him on the touchline either. Why is that?
Can we seriously believe that this intelligent and passionate man agrees with Nigel's approach in recent weeks? I'm not having it.
I think he's the man for the job especially if backed with Euell and Curbs as I suggest.
Sadly, not even the Adkins going part may happen yet!
Oh dear, what a mess!
This is exactly how I saw it.
We played with two wide players and a triangle in the centre of midfield ... Lee at the front and Watson and Clare as the base.
Going forward, that's OK ... but when we lose possession, either the two wide players have track back to avoid the regular overload (not just last night, but in every game so far) that our full-backs experience ... or one of Watson and Clare have to move across to support Matthews or Purrington.
None of this happened, so we get done at full-back time and time again.
Either the midfield players have not been told what to do, or they are incapable of doing it.
In reality Lee played more like a second striker than an advanced midfielder, as instinctively that's what he is. He's not great defensively either0 - Sponsored links:
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Would like to give him more time, as believe it or not for 70 minutes we played arguably our best stuff of the season.
However as much as I like Adkins as a person,I think the writing is already on the wall. It was painful to see him reacting to the Adkins out and sacked in the morning chants….he was unquestionably shell shocked and looked a broken man to some extent. I felt very sorry for him.
Just a quick comment regarding the game…..in the first half Leco stuck across three or four delicious crosses that needed someone to get their head to…..how ironic that Stockley wasn’t there to take the opportunities, I’m pretty sure he’d have snapped up at least one or maybe even two.
Oh well…..hindsight is a wonderful thing.2 -
Parky’s football was almost as bad as Adkins. Powell was proving a point to show the squad be inherited was good enough to play how he wanted.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Parkinson was sacked and nothing improved when he was replaced until we rebuilt the squad. We ended up 13th that season as CP found out how bad the squad was.East Kent Addick said:Parky was a nice guy too but I think most of us could see it was time for him to be replaced
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''We have some really good players, and a strong squad, but their confidence is shot to pieces.
In such circumstances, they don't need a happy, clappy, Mr Motivator with PowerPoint presentations, they need someone to tell them to man up, dig in and fight.''
Quote from Queensland on page 40!
In other words someone like Lee Bowyer (Should never have let him go).
Is it just a coincidence people we have employed with a poor record here:
Pardew, Parkinson, Roddy and Adkins all have a connection with Reading.
Think this is the curse of Reading rejects!5 -
I kept out of this discussion after yesterday's game because I was so angry and disappointed. We were trumped on every level in the second half by a not very good Bolton Wanderers. Tactically, fitness-wise, and also in terms of football. After the 2-1, I never felt we would get back in it.It's like Curbishley and Kiely said, the time for excuses is over. We have to get results now. It doesn't matter anymore if players are not completely fit, they have to want to play for the shirt and for the coach and give 100%. With some players I really have my doubts about that. Because the largest part of our squad is made up of experienced professionals with hundreds of games to their name. Our best players yesterday are Davison, CBT, and Leko. Young hungry players. It seems like something is all wrong with this team. Is that the coach's fault? I do not know. Remember that this was already an issue in the Bowyer era, who was often very critical of his players. Either the players can't do what Adkins wants, or Adkins as well has completely lost control of his squad.The fact is that Adkins is responsible. In the end, it comes down to the manager and apparently this doesn't work at all. We are in a relegation battle and something has to be done now. I wouldn't mind it if Adkins would walk or be sacked. But will it get better? I just don't know at this point. It's just so bad right now. And what type of coach do we need? Bowyer didn't work, Adkins doesn't work and those appear to be two polar opposites. Bottom line is that I really fear for us this season. I just don't see where the points will come from. I can imagine it being a very hard decision for TS too.3
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ThisColinTat said:Bowyer mainly stuck with his favoured formations. He did try a few strange tactical switches like making Deji no1 creative outlet - against Burton was it? But we started to improve, when he had way too slowly, realised none of our cm's could play an effective diamond. However long he took he did identify the problem.
Adkins uses a bewildering array of formations, when our personnel have blown up in every single one. Then he utilises a 442 where we have only Davison and Clare as players who you'd back to win a 50-50. Two players in the front 6 who'll win more tackles than they'll lose? Even if you were top of the table you'll not win many like that.
Adkins tells us week after week that we have players not fully aerobically and/or match fit. Then he plays at least 3 in our front 6, and doesn't change them around the 55-60 minute mark, but in the last 12 minutes. The Bolton coach tells us their whole identity under him, is their energy in the final 1/3 of the match? What was Adkins thinking? It doesn't sound like we were outplaying them, and Leko and Taylor never look like being players who know when to dig in or when to follow runners - even if they were match fit.
We really need to be hard to beat for when the bad weather hits. Adkins has comprehensively proven he is not capable of this at Charlton. I wish Nigel Adkins the best, and empathise the pressure is awful on any manager, but he is nowhere near par in what he's brought to the club: Our team, and bounce last season was already in place before he came. If he didn't identify that he needed younger and more energetic full backs, and younger and more dynamic midfielders then he didn't bring much to us after being out the game for 18 months.
Last night we roasted the Trotters for 15 - 20 minutes then Adkins got CBT and Leko to swap wings and all our attacking impetus evaporated
Adkins then did nothing more until forced by Leko's 'injury'/giving up with 25 minutes to go in a match he (Adkins) had.to.win
Did nothing more til "risking" Gilbs for 15 minutes
Then at the end when chasing the lost cause Adkins has Washington in the middle and Davsion out wide!!! No criticism of CW or JD but that's choosing to do stuff wrong cos you're crazy or a charlatan.
There ain't any obvious replacements:..
Curbs? Don;t make me laugh Adkins is yesterday's man, Curbs is yesterday's man's retired Dad.
JJ or Euell? Not sure, they're more likely parts of the problem.
Sir Chris Powell? My heart leaps at the idea but would he want it? For him it's a backwards step surely? He didn't tear up many trees post the dooshitalot unpleasantness either.
Chris Wilder? Would need a very ambitious pitch from TS and CW's still enjoying the lifestyle afforded premier league managers
... but sticking with Adkins a moment longer is the same negligent/crazy shit Adkins is guilty of match after match. He's the worst manager since Karel Fraeye. For bullshit and clueless bluster he's on a par with Dowie. Charlton ain't sacked a manager since Slade in '16 - maybe someone should call José Riga?
Ho hum, soon be Christmas...3 -
No.killerandflash said:
Watson or Clare moving across would leave a massive hole in the middle of the parkDave Rudd said:East Kent Addick said:
But does JJ coach the defence to play with virtually no support from midfield like last night? That formation we started with was fine when we were on the attack and pressing but as soon as Bolton got back into the game our midfield couldn't cope - the 2 wide players didn't track back, Lee stayed upfield which left Watson and Clare (neither of whom are natural CDM's) isolated and overrun and with only an attacking mid (Gilbey) and an unfit crock (Arter) on the bench. I think we ended up with a 4-1-5 formation at the end - that's down to the manager. Add to that the fact that we don't appear to have a decent right back on our books. They may be Welsh internationals but both Matthews and Gunter have been caught out too many times not getting the basics of defending right.ShootersHillGuru said:
Who coaches the defence ? I don’t know for certain and perhaps I’m off beam but our defence is appalling at present.Phil said:The short term solution is easy but will never happen. Remove Adkins and Roddy. Replace them with JJ and Euell and Curbs. Get in a decent and proven CEO ( Varney would be ideal ). Use the time to either back the new management duo or seek an alternative.
For those that feel JJ is too tied to Adkins and what's happened, I'd point to his ongoing 100% record as manager when it's left to him.
More than that, other than when Adkins had Covid, we haven't heard a peep out of JJ. We see little of him on the touchline either. Why is that?
Can we seriously believe that this intelligent and passionate man agrees with Nigel's approach in recent weeks? I'm not having it.
I think he's the man for the job especially if backed with Euell and Curbs as I suggest.
Sadly, not even the Adkins going part may happen yet!
Oh dear, what a mess!
This is exactly how I saw it.
We played with two wide players and a triangle in the centre of midfield ... Lee at the front and Watson and Clare as the base.
Going forward, that's OK ... but when we lose possession, either the two wide players have track back to avoid the regular overload (not just last night, but in every game so far) that our full-backs experience ... or one of Watson and Clare have to move across to support Matthews or Purrington.
None of this happened, so we get done at full-back time and time again.
Either the midfield players have not been told what to do, or they are incapable of doing it.
In reality Lee played more like a second striker than an advanced midfielder, as instinctively that's what he is. He's not great defensively either
You move as a unit. So, if Watson has to move across to support the full-back, Clare also moves across to fill the gap that Watson has created. Then the wide player moves back to fill the gap that Clare has created.
You have effectively brought one of your wide players back ... but in a much less critical and more controlled way.
But the players have to adopt this mindset or have it coached into them.
Neither seems to be happening.2 -
Oh Eddie Youds... said:Fair to say that if TS doesnt sack Adkins after 1 win in 10 & a heavy home defeat to a side who just scrapped promotion from league two a few months back, then he's never going to do it.
I genuinely fear he'll leave it (as he did with bowyer) and we'll soon be cut adrift in the relegation soon. We're already in a concerning position where a win wouldnt get us out of it.
Worrying times.
The fact that they only went up automatically doesn't tell the full story of their season. They were the best team in the division by a country mile for the second half of the season. This is what I posted in the post match thread:
Bolton are a better side than some are giving them credit for. They were unlucky by all accounts against Sunderland, beat Ipswich by the same margin as they defeated us tonight and are in 7th place with15 points (10 of them away from home). The fact that they are newly promoted is absolutely irrelevant - they were favourites to win League 2 last season but had a disastrous start, winning just one game from their first 11 in all comps and only amassed 28 points from their first 24 games. They then went on a run of 51 points from their final 22 games to gain automatic promotion.
Bolton stuck with the newly appointed Ian Evatt and it's clear that he struggled early on to find a winning formula. I'm not sure we can do the same with Adkins but hopefully, either way, we can start to move up the table if and when some level of confidence and belief is restored. Quite how we do that I haven't a clue!
So, even with 28 points from 24 games, they gained promotion and were only three points off top. Only one team has scored more goals than them this season too. The notion that teams should always struggle when going from League 2 to League 1 is nonsense. They made 20 plus signings last season but only a handful this so have, basically, kept a squad together that were too good for League 2. It just took their Manager half a season to work out what was their best side and formation. Progressive teams sign players who are good enough to play in the division above and that is what Bolton did.
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You trying to say you're available?ValleyGary said:People saying 'well who would you get in' are wasting their time.
We dont have the networks that professional football clubs should have when it comes to knowledge of coaches or managers.
For example, MK Dons lost a good young manager in Russell Martin to Swansea and replaced him with a young bloke who started coaching for City Group and then went to the Belgian 2nd Division. They appointed him and they've lost 1 game this season.
There are talented football people out there.1 -
That woman is a legend.
The perfect delivery gets me every time.7
This discussion has been closed.
