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England Cricket 2021 (excluding Ashes)
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Aussie squad for first two Ashes Tests:
David Warner, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Cameron Green, Tim Paine (captain), Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood, Nathan Lyon, Jhye Richardson, Michael Neser, Mitchell Swepson.
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Mitchell Swepson is a new one to me, though it is compulsory for the Aussies to have a few Mitchells in the squad!
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Really never thought of him as a Test bowler - very much a T20 specialist leggie. I was going to question why Zampa isn't in front of him 'til I noticed that he hasn't played Sheffield Shield for two years now! In any event, one suspects that the second spinner is a token selection.killerandflash said:Mitchell Swepson is a new one to me, though it is compulsory for the Aussies to have a few Mitchells in the squad!1 -
Looking at that ozsquad my optimism has gone up slightly. The only worries are if flat tracks mean Smith bats for 3/5 days of each test and whether we can see off the new ball from Starc, Hazelwood and Cummins.1
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Separately on the racism investigations; it does seem a tad strange that every day someone new is being brought into the fold as being alleged to have made racist remarks. The abuse he received at Yorkshire is disgusting but why is last weeks Vaughan now yesterday’s Ballance and today’s Bresnan? Why drip feed names when you’ve had the worlds media in front of you for weeks and made multiple statements? With how sensitive the world is now he also needs to be careful accusing Bresnan of missing games for failing drug tests and not what was reported at the time as anxiety and mental health concerns.In a word, this whole situation is an absolute shower of shit and I feel awful for Rafiq.0
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I'll be laying $100 on us getting swept 5-0, their bowling will go through our batting like a bad curry through a piss head.
As for the racism stuff, it's absolutely appalling that this stuff is going on in this day and age, it certainly wouldn't happen in the corporate world, or at least not in the world that I mix in, absolutely no chance.
Michael Vaughan has fucked himself very badly indeed, I don't believe that he is a racist but the stuff he said was very ill-advised even if he meant it as a 'joke' towards his team-mates.
As my old boss at the Financial Times once said to me, "Everything looks bad in 36pt Times New Roman" and he was spot on, what Vaughan said to his team mates in 2009, possibly with a big smile on his face and with no bad intent, is completely different twelve years later in cold, hard print.
He should have just owned up to it and apologized and said he didn't realize at the time how offensive it was and that he deeply regrets any offence caused, it's pretty straightforward really, but by denying it he is just making it worse for himself.
The whole situation is a complete mess and it won't be just Yorkshire that have behaved appallingly, there will be plenty more out there as well.0 -
Rafiq's witness statement names more than 20 players, coaches and officials as guilty of doing something even if it was just not calling out those that said something racist. The ones that get the most criticism are:Andyessgee90 said:Separately on the racism investigations; it does seem a tad strange that every day someone new is being brought into the fold as being alleged to have made racist remarks. The abuse he received at Yorkshire is disgusting but why is last weeks Vaughan now yesterday’s Ballance and today’s Bresnan? Why drip feed names when you’ve had the worlds media in front of you for weeks and made multiple statements? With how sensitive the world is now he also needs to be careful accusing Bresnan of missing games for failing drug tests and not what was reported at the time as anxiety and mental health concerns.In a word, this whole situation is an absolute shower of shit and I feel awful for Rafiq.
Andrew Gale
Martyn Moxon
Gary Ballance
Tim Bresnan
Michael Vaughan
Matthew Hoggard
David Byas
Mark Arthur
Richard Pyrah
John Blain0 -
Rafiq had parliamentary privilege whilst giving his evidence to the MPs so he could name names without any fear of legal reprisals, so perhaps that's why some of the names weren't named before?Andyessgee90 said:Separately on the racism investigations; it does seem a tad strange that every day someone new is being brought into the fold as being alleged to have made racist remarks. The abuse he received at Yorkshire is disgusting but why is last weeks Vaughan now yesterday’s Ballance and today’s Bresnan? Why drip feed names when you’ve had the worlds media in front of you for weeks and made multiple statements? With how sensitive the world is now he also needs to be careful accusing Bresnan of missing games for failing drug tests and not what was reported at the time as anxiety and mental health concerns.In a word, this whole situation is an absolute shower of shit and I feel awful for Rafiq.5 -
Which is why he is allowed to make this accusation publicly without any ramifications for him in doing so:Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Rafiq had parliamentary privilege whilst giving his evidence to the MPs so he could name names without any fear of legal reprisals, so perhaps that's why some of the names weren't named before?Andyessgee90 said:Separately on the racism investigations; it does seem a tad strange that every day someone new is being brought into the fold as being alleged to have made racist remarks. The abuse he received at Yorkshire is disgusting but why is last weeks Vaughan now yesterday’s Ballance and today’s Bresnan? Why drip feed names when you’ve had the worlds media in front of you for weeks and made multiple statements? With how sensitive the world is now he also needs to be careful accusing Bresnan of missing games for failing drug tests and not what was reported at the time as anxiety and mental health concerns.In a word, this whole situation is an absolute shower of shit and I feel awful for Rafiq.
Over the years, YCCC protected Gary Balance with respect to his drug and alcohol issues, allowing him to miss drug hair sample tests to avoid sanctions. When he failed a recreational drug test and was forced to miss some games, the club informed the public he was missing games because he was struggling with anxiety and mental health issues.
Ballance has strenuously denied this.0 -
The full legal submission from Rafiq can be read here - it is an absolute disgrace that he went through this.
Some of those named should face proper sanctions, especially the leadership group of Byas and Gale.
https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/7832/documents/81586/default/
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Listening to his testimony there seemed to be an awful lot of racism and bullying going on. If it's so deeply embedded in the game I'm not sure how it will change.Ormiston_Addick said:The full legal submission from Rafiq can be read here - it is an absolute disgrace that he went through this.
Some of those named should face proper sanctions, especially the leadership group of Byas and Gale.
https://committees.parliament.uk/publications/7832/documents/81586/default/
The Asian community are not going to want to be involved in cricket in this country.0 -
And as Michael Atherton states in The Times today:Addick Addict said:From the Guardian. The man has more interest in promoting and profiting from his pet project than anything else that is going on in the game:
There was a startling point of contrast later in the day as the chief executive of the England and Wales Cricket Board, Tom Harrison, gave evidence and produced a wretched show of prevarication, flannel and non-speak buzzwords. Truth? Meet bluster. Corporate evasion? Meet the real-life consequences of your inactions. Quite how Harrison managed to avoid walking into that room already penitent, pleading forgiveness for the harm that has continued to flourish during his own regulation of the summer sport, is the acme of shamelessness.
The ECB did not intervene in the Yorkshire-Rafiq row until it was clear that the public mood had shifted, that sponsors were fleeing the club and that government intervention was a possibility. It is a good moment for the ECB to remember its most fundamental role, as a guardian of the sport for generations to come. That comes with inevitable commercial imperatives, but also broader considerations.
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I'm not buying this "didn't know it was offensive", "if only they had told me..." Calling someone the P word and telling that to get back home has been racially charged and offensive for decades before then, at least. They thought it was funny and management let it happen and in some cases were the cause. Apologise, and hope you still have a career after it2
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He said Hoggard phoned him up to apologize. Fair play0
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Hoggard's behaviour sounded pretty awful - doesn't reflect well on him at all regardless of any apology.McBobbin said:He said Hoggard phoned him up to apologize. Fair play
The bullying culture sounds terrible.1 -
Rafiq made it quite clear he didn’t want to make it about individuals, and that it was the culture at Yorkshire that helped bullying and racism thrive. All it takes is one or two bullies and/or racists and a toxic culture, and people naturally get behind the bully - as they don’t want to be the subject of the bullying themselves. It then becomes embedded where the younger players think it’s okay, and then it continues.
Rafiq said “even a good man like joe root” was unable to be separate from the racism allegations, as it was so embedded in the culture of the cricket club.6 -
Rafiq has been incredibly forgiving given what he had to endure. Racism is still embedded in a lot of organisations and it's not acknowledged - it will be interesting to see what action cricket takes.kentaddick said:Rafiq made it quite clear he didn’t want to make it about individuals, and that it was the culture at Yorkshire that helped bullying and racism thrive. All it takes is one or two bullies and/or racists and a toxic culture, and people naturally get behind the bully - as they don’t want to be the subject of the bullying themselves. It then becomes embedded where the younger players think it’s okay, and then it continues.
Rafiq said “even a good man like joe root” was unable to be separate from the racism allegations, as it was so embedded in the culture of the cricket club.
A lot of talented Asian cricketers will have been put off pursuing a career in the game.0 -
Great work from George Dobell on Sky Sports this morning who nailed it.
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https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/countycricket/george_dobell_azeem_rafiq_lost_career_racism_crucial_legacy_playing_out_real_time.htmllolwray said:Great work from George Dobell on Sky Sports this morning who nailed it.
His article on the subject...0 -
The bit that really stuck out yesterday in his testimony was saying that if in 5 years the game is better then its much more important than any runs or wickets scored.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
Rafiq has been incredibly forgiving given what he had to endure. Racism is still embedded in a lot of organisations and it's not acknowledged - it will be interesting to see what action cricket takes.kentaddick said:Rafiq made it quite clear he didn’t want to make it about individuals, and that it was the culture at Yorkshire that helped bullying and racism thrive. All it takes is one or two bullies and/or racists and a toxic culture, and people naturally get behind the bully - as they don’t want to be the subject of the bullying themselves. It then becomes embedded where the younger players think it’s okay, and then it continues.
Rafiq said “even a good man like joe root” was unable to be separate from the racism allegations, as it was so embedded in the culture of the cricket club.
A lot of talented Asian cricketers will have been put off pursuing a career in the game.
It's appalling to think about how much he's gone through in the first place, then how much more just for daring to speak up.0 - Sponsored links:
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i wonder who the overseas player was rob key reprimanded.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/countycricket/george_dobell_azeem_rafiq_lost_career_racism_crucial_legacy_playing_out_real_time.htmllolwray said:Great work from George Dobell on Sky Sports this morning who nailed it.
His article on the subject...0 -
Can you expand on this bit?Ormiston_Addick said:I'll be laying $100 on us getting swept 5-0, their bowling will go through our batting like a bad curry through a piss head.
As for the racism stuff, it's absolutely appalling that this stuff is going on in this day and age, it certainly wouldn't happen in the corporate world, or at least not in the world that I mix in, absolutely no chance.
Michael Vaughan has fucked himself very badly indeed, I don't believe that he is a racist but the stuff he said was very ill-advised even if he meant it as a 'joke' towards his team-mates.
As my old boss at the Financial Times once said to me, "Everything looks bad in 36pt Times New Roman" and he was spot on, what Vaughan said to his team mates in 2009, possibly with a big smile on his face and with no bad intent, is completely different twelve years later in cold, hard print.
He should have just owned up to it and apologized and said he didn't realize at the time how offensive it was and that he deeply regrets any offence caused, it's pretty straightforward really, but by denying it he is just making it worse for himself.
The whole situation is a complete mess and it won't be just Yorkshire that have behaved appallingly, there will be plenty more out there as well.0 -
That would be fascinating. Good to see a few positive examples from other clubs thoughkentaddick said:
i wonder who the overseas player was rob key reprimanded.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/countycricket/george_dobell_azeem_rafiq_lost_career_racism_crucial_legacy_playing_out_real_time.htmllolwray said:Great work from George Dobell on Sky Sports this morning who nailed it.
His article on the subject...
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/george-dobell-speaks-to-moeen-ali-a-man-on-a-mission-679723
Moeen is full of praise for Worcs in this 2013 interview, also with George Dobell, and also mentions Hick
"Worcestershire were fantastic from the beginning," he says. "They were sponsored by a beer company at the time, but they quickly gave me an unbranded shirt so I didn't have to wear anything that advertised alcohol, and they give me space and time to pray. Even at away games. I recall Graeme Hick moving all his kit from the dressing room at Taunton so I had a place to pray. People talk a lot about what a great player Hick was, but he is even greater as a man.
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Sure, I have worked at several multi nationals and the idea that you could call someone a Paki or ridicule them in any way would be considered unthinkable.Chizz said:
Can you expand on this bit?Ormiston_Addick said:I'll be laying $100 on us getting swept 5-0, their bowling will go through our batting like a bad curry through a piss head.
As for the racism stuff, it's absolutely appalling that this stuff is going on in this day and age, it certainly wouldn't happen in the corporate world, or at least not in the world that I mix in, absolutely no chance.
Michael Vaughan has fucked himself very badly indeed, I don't believe that he is a racist but the stuff he said was very ill-advised even if he meant it as a 'joke' towards his team-mates.
As my old boss at the Financial Times once said to me, "Everything looks bad in 36pt Times New Roman" and he was spot on, what Vaughan said to his team mates in 2009, possibly with a big smile on his face and with no bad intent, is completely different twelve years later in cold, hard print.
He should have just owned up to it and apologized and said he didn't realize at the time how offensive it was and that he deeply regrets any offence caused, it's pretty straightforward really, but by denying it he is just making it worse for himself.
The whole situation is a complete mess and it won't be just Yorkshire that have behaved appallingly, there will be plenty more out there as well.
Working at a major bank now and they take this stuff incredibly seriously, if you racially abused someone and they complained then you would be sacked immediately.
Sure, at some smaller workplaces you'd still get racist stuff but the major employers are heavily invested in diversity and inclusion and the stuff that happened to Rafiq would be nippee in the bud very fast.
Of course there will be cases from time to time but nothing as protracted as what took place at YCCC.1 -
This is really interesting and I believe every word of what you've said. But I wonder if the Chairman of Yorkshire Cricket also thought the same thing? In other words, every decent organisation would claim that anyone racially abusing a colleague would be sacked; but does it ever actually come to pass? Or are there corporates who promulgate their own corporate social responsibility and promotion of diversity who also have (junior) colleagues who still indulge in what they think of as 'banter'?Ormiston_Addick said:
Sure, I have worked at several multi nationals and the idea that you could call someone a Paki or ridicule them in any way would be considered unthinkable.Chizz said:
Can you expand on this bit?Ormiston_Addick said:I'll be laying $100 on us getting swept 5-0, their bowling will go through our batting like a bad curry through a piss head.
As for the racism stuff, it's absolutely appalling that this stuff is going on in this day and age, it certainly wouldn't happen in the corporate world, or at least not in the world that I mix in, absolutely no chance.
Michael Vaughan has fucked himself very badly indeed, I don't believe that he is a racist but the stuff he said was very ill-advised even if he meant it as a 'joke' towards his team-mates.
As my old boss at the Financial Times once said to me, "Everything looks bad in 36pt Times New Roman" and he was spot on, what Vaughan said to his team mates in 2009, possibly with a big smile on his face and with no bad intent, is completely different twelve years later in cold, hard print.
He should have just owned up to it and apologized and said he didn't realize at the time how offensive it was and that he deeply regrets any offence caused, it's pretty straightforward really, but by denying it he is just making it worse for himself.
The whole situation is a complete mess and it won't be just Yorkshire that have behaved appallingly, there will be plenty more out there as well.
Working at a major bank now and they take this stuff incredibly seriously, if you racially abused someone and they complained then you would be sacked immediately.
Sure, at some smaller workplaces you'd still get racist stuff but the major employers are heavily invested in diversity and inclusion and the stuff that happened to Rafiq would be nippee in the bud very fast.
Of course there will be cases from time to time but nothing as protracted as what took place at YCCC.
I have worked for bit corporations who promote inclusivity and intolerance of prejudice (and I wouldn't work for any company who didn't). But I am sure in the bowels of those organisations, some conscious or unconscious bias takes place, unabated.
What I think I am trying to say is that no-one can point a finger at Yorkshire CCC and tell themselves they don't have to work harder themselves in their own organisations.0 -
Mitchell…. Australian slang for bell endkillerandflash said:Mitchell Swepson is a new one to me, though it is compulsory for the Aussies to have a few Mitchells in the squad!1 -
Prejudice is not always visible - far too many organisations don't acknowledge their failings. The only way to improve is to be self-critical.Chizz said:
This is really interesting and I believe every word of what you've said. But I wonder if the Chairman of Yorkshire Cricket also thought the same thing? In other words, every decent organisation would claim that anyone racially abusing a colleague would be sacked; but does it ever actually come to pass? Or are there corporates who promulgate their own corporate social responsibility and promotion of diversity who also have (junior) colleagues who still indulge in what they think of as 'banter'?Ormiston_Addick said:
Sure, I have worked at several multi nationals and the idea that you could call someone a Paki or ridicule them in any way would be considered unthinkable.Chizz said:
Can you expand on this bit?Ormiston_Addick said:I'll be laying $100 on us getting swept 5-0, their bowling will go through our batting like a bad curry through a piss head.
As for the racism stuff, it's absolutely appalling that this stuff is going on in this day and age, it certainly wouldn't happen in the corporate world, or at least not in the world that I mix in, absolutely no chance.
Michael Vaughan has fucked himself very badly indeed, I don't believe that he is a racist but the stuff he said was very ill-advised even if he meant it as a 'joke' towards his team-mates.
As my old boss at the Financial Times once said to me, "Everything looks bad in 36pt Times New Roman" and he was spot on, what Vaughan said to his team mates in 2009, possibly with a big smile on his face and with no bad intent, is completely different twelve years later in cold, hard print.
He should have just owned up to it and apologized and said he didn't realize at the time how offensive it was and that he deeply regrets any offence caused, it's pretty straightforward really, but by denying it he is just making it worse for himself.
The whole situation is a complete mess and it won't be just Yorkshire that have behaved appallingly, there will be plenty more out there as well.
Working at a major bank now and they take this stuff incredibly seriously, if you racially abused someone and they complained then you would be sacked immediately.
Sure, at some smaller workplaces you'd still get racist stuff but the major employers are heavily invested in diversity and inclusion and the stuff that happened to Rafiq would be nippee in the bud very fast.
Of course there will be cases from time to time but nothing as protracted as what took place at YCCC.
I have worked for bit corporations who promote inclusivity and intolerance of prejudice (and I wouldn't work for any company who didn't). But I am sure in the bowels of those organisations, some conscious or unconscious bias takes place, unabated.
What I think I am trying to say is that no-one can point a finger at Yorkshire CCC and tell themselves they don't have to work harder themselves in their own organisations.
Too many large corporations still fail minorities and are more concerned with PR.0 -
They also sacked Steve Rhodes who had been there for 33 years for not reporting the arrest of Alex Hepburn (who went on to be found guilty of rape) in a timely manner. Rhodes was clearly trying to be loyal to one of his players but it was a very poor decision. I'm sure, given what we have read about Yorkshire that they would have sought to cover that up.killerandflash said:
That would be fascinating. Good to see a few positive examples from other clubs thoughkentaddick said:
i wonder who the overseas player was rob key reprimanded.hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/countycricket/george_dobell_azeem_rafiq_lost_career_racism_crucial_legacy_playing_out_real_time.htmllolwray said:Great work from George Dobell on Sky Sports this morning who nailed it.
His article on the subject...
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/george-dobell-speaks-to-moeen-ali-a-man-on-a-mission-679723
Moeen is full of praise for Worcs in this 2013 interview, also with George Dobell, and also mentions Hick
"Worcestershire were fantastic from the beginning," he says. "They were sponsored by a beer company at the time, but they quickly gave me an unbranded shirt so I didn't have to wear anything that advertised alcohol, and they give me space and time to pray. Even at away games. I recall Graeme Hick moving all his kit from the dressing room at Taunton so I had a place to pray. People talk a lot about what a great player Hick was, but he is even greater as a man.0 -
Surprised no Mitch Marsh.Addick Addict said:Aussie squad for first two Ashes Tests:
David Warner, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Cameron Green, Tim Paine (captain), Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood, Nathan Lyon, Jhye Richardson, Michael Neser, Mitchell Swepson.
There is an opportunity for us I think with their bowlers now that Pattinson has retired. They largely have the 4 of Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc and Lyon. The rest have very few if any test caps/experience. Going into tests with just those 4 is a pretty large risk given their collective injury history. Cam Green is the only allrounder option as Marsh is surprisingly not included despite being in good form. Starc could either have a Mitchell Johnson 2011 or a Mitchell Johnson 2013 sort of series. He could blow us away or he could be the bowler that we target. If they do go for the 4 bowler approach we could attack starc and see if we can put more bowling workload on Cummins/hazlewood to the point where they might not be able to play all 4 tests.
We should also be able to target Paine. I don't understand how he has survived this long in test cricket. he cant bat, cant review and his keeping has got worse. We need to target him.4 -
They also have a weak opening batsman in Harris and Warner is Broad's bunny.cantersaddick said:
Surprised no Mitch Marsh.Addick Addict said:Aussie squad for first two Ashes Tests:
David Warner, Marcus Harris, Marnus Labuschagne, Steve Smith, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Cameron Green, Tim Paine (captain), Pat Cummins, Mitchell Starc, Josh Hazlewood, Nathan Lyon, Jhye Richardson, Michael Neser, Mitchell Swepson.
There is an opportunity for us I think with their bowlers now that Pattinson has retired. They largely have the 4 of Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc and Lyon. The rest have very few if any test caps/experience. Going into tests with just those 4 is a pretty large risk given their collective injury history. Cam Green is the only allrounder option as Marsh is surprisingly not included despite being in good form. Starc could either have a Mitchell Johnson 2011 or a Mitchell Johnson 2013 sort of series. He could blow us away or he could be the bowler that we target. If they do go for the 4 bowler approach we could attack starc and see if we can put more bowling workload on Cummins/hazlewood to the point where they might not be able to play all 4 tests.
We should also be able to target Paine. I don't understand how he has survived this long in test cricket. he cant bat, cant review and his keeping has got worse. We need to target him.
However, they have the best 3 and 4 in the world and looks like Khawaja will bat 5 and is in the best form of his life and will suit batting 5 much more than 3. And thats before you get on to our batting and bowling weaknesses.0
